Expat Retiree Cost Of Living--higher And Higher

[jori]

I like sex,now that would cost me a bundle in the west.Everytime I get my bags down to pack,about to call the airline up I stop and think,put it off another day or two,horrible feeling that you will one day have to go without the sex on demand

[Ulysses G.]

I'm totally SHOCKED! The very idea!

Edited May 8, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[Pattaya46]

50k is MORE than enough ...

Enough ?

Except that you can't obtain a retirement visa if your revenues are so low...

and I really don't understand how someone could find any visa to stay here with only 300 $/month

[FarangBuddha]

50k is MORE than enough ...

Enough ?

Except that you can't obtain a retirement visa if your revenues are so low...

and I really don't understand how someone could find any visa to stay here with only 300 $/month

Not really sure how you arrive at your calculations...B 50k = US$ 1563...where did you come up with this $ 300 amount...I certainly never mentioned it?

Also I never said my "revenues" were so low...only that's all I had to spend on living expenses per month. The financial requirements for various visas only require the recipient to have available certain minimum monthly/yearly amounts of money...not that they spend that much

Edited May 8, 2010 by FarangBuddha

[sarahsbloke]

50k is MORE than enough ...

Except that you can't obtain a retirement visa if your revenues are so low... huh.gif

Married person visa extension 1 year, proof of 40kbht a month

Married person visa extension 60 day, no proof of funds required

Multiple entry non-immigrant o visa lasting 1 year over age 50, no proof of funds required

Edited May 8, 2010 by sarahsbloke

[Pattaya46]

Married person visa extension 1 year, proof of 40kbht a month

Married person visa extension 60 day, no proof of funds required

Wrong : You need to be married to a Thai

Not every 50+ yo is married...

No every married is married to a Thai ...

Multiple entry non-immigrant o visa lasting 1 year over age 50, no proof of funds required

You have to go back America, Europe or Australia to get one

Seems to me an expensive trip (600$+ ?) for someone on a 300 $/month budget as said before :

I have a really good friend from Germany //

He claims he lives on less than $300 a month. Now, I've seen his hotel rooms...basic for sure.

[FarangBuddha]

Seems to me an expensive trip (600 ?) for someone on a 300 $/month budget as said before :

I have a really good friend from Germany //

He claims he lives on less than $300 a month. Now, I've seen his hotel rooms...basic for sure.

Wasn't that guy living in Burma...not Pattaya? I don't recall anyone saying you could live in Pattaya on US$ 300 (about B 10k) per month. [Though I'm sure there probably are such people...farangs too.]

[Jingthing]

I can't live on 10K a month in Pattaya for sure and I don't pay any rent. Hard to imagine. I don't think I've ever had a month with spending that low.

[Ulysses G.]

Maybe you could not live well, but you could live on that if you had to. A lot of Thais live on less.

Remember that a certain number of farangs living here have so little money that it would be impossible to survive back in their own country. Being able to live in a small comfortable room and have enough Thai food to eat is a lot better than freezing in a public park at home.

[Jingthing]

Maybe you could not live well, but you could live on that if you had to. A lot of Thais live on less.

Remember that a certain number of farangs living here have so little money that it would be impossible to survive back in their own country. Being able to live in a small comfortable room and have enough Thai food to eat is a lot better than freezing in a public park at home.

No, really, I don't think I could. Even cutting out the Grape Nuts.

[Ulysses G.]

You might need a crash course in balloon chasing!

[FarangBuddha]

You might need a crash course in balloon chasing!

You beat me to it...many in Pattaya eat for almost free everynite

[Jingthing]

But they have to buy a drink, yes? I live a basic life and staying under 20K per month isn't common, again with no rent. You also have to factor in the big expenses and include them and like anywhere, they come up predictably. In other words, someone may SAY they live on 20K per month (or whatever) but unless they add on the big expense items (new furniture, hospital, bike, trip home, etc. etc. etc.) to that figure, they aren't being honest. In other words if you have a special expense for 60K baht, well that adds 5k baht per month to your spending over the year. Also for those that own their homes, they should really add the opportunity/real costs of having free rent. It isn't free. We paid a lot of money to get that free rent, plus are giving up any income we could have had from that cash. It isn't easy to quantify that actual cost but again it isn't honest to say you live on only x baht a month with free rent, when you are actually paying much more, but paid it already.

Edited May 8, 2010 by Jingthing

[craigt3365]

Excellent point. I travel back to the US twice a year. That adds a huge amount to my "monthly" budget. I also travel around asia a fair amount...another very large expense.

Opportunity cost is fairly easy to calculate. If your home cost you 5,000,000 Baht, that actually costs you at least 150,000 Baht per year (assuming you are earning 3% on your money), or 12,500 Baht per month...not including the tax implications.

When I do my budgeting, I do include this in the calculations....

[FarangBuddha]

But they have to buy a drink, yes? I live a basic life and staying under 20K per month isn't common, again with no rent. You also have to factor in the big expenses and include them and like anywhere, they come up predictably. In other words, someone may SAY they live on 20K per month (or whatever) but unless they add on the big expense items (new furniture, hospital, bike, trip home, etc. etc. etc.) to that figure, they aren't being honest. In other words if you have a special expense for 60K baht, well that adds 5k baht per month to your spending over the year. Also for those that own their homes, they should really add the opportunity/real costs of having free rent. It isn't free. We paid a lot of money to get that free rent, plus are giving up any income we could have had from that cash. It isn't easy to quantify that actual cost but again it isn't honest to say you live on only x baht a month with free rent, when you are actually paying much more, but paid it already.

As I said...they eat almost for free (a soda water is B 40-50 at most beer-bars). As to unanticipated costs...certainly these have to be taken into account. I said my living cost estimate was for basic living expenses: accommodation, food, transportation, and utilities. Any special hobbies or activities or medications (or travel or visa runs or local families) are all extra expenses and specific to any person and would have to be taken into account.

I was also running the retirement on pension numbers for US$'s and a couple years ago it was about $ 1800 at the then prevailing exchange rates but at current rates (32-1) it's about $ 2100. That could effect some people in a negative way. Of course, it's always easy to "adjust" for this when you prepare your embassy letter

Edited May 9, 2010 by FarangBuddha

[buddy]

For the Brits:

AVERAGE UK household income (after tax) is circa £24,000 per year or £2,000 per month, that's approx. Baht 100,000 per month in Thailand. Using those number, in which country do you think you would have the better standard of living, a rhetorical question.

You need to quote the "Median" UK household income (after tax) to get a grip on it, not the average which inflates the figure.

Which is....how much per month?

[jori]

AVERAGE UK household income (after tax) is circa £24,000 per year or £2,000 per month, that's approx. Baht 100,000 per month in Thailand. Using those number, in which country do you think you would have the better standard of living, a rhetorical question.

You need to quote the "Median" UK household income (after tax) to get a grip on it, not the average which inflates the figure.

Which is....how much per month?

More like how much it costs to buy those 100,000 Baht,at 2000GPB its damned expensive. Thailand is a third world country,prices should reflect that fact but they do not,vis-a-vis it's more expensive here than the UK in many instances.

Now the Euro is on the way down it makes Spain look damned attractive,especially in the way of housing and free medical care

[FarangBuddha]

AVERAGE UK household income (after tax) is circa £24,000 per year or £2,000 per month, that's approx. Baht 100,000 per month in Thailand. Using those number, in which country do you think you would have the better standard of living, a rhetorical question.

You need to quote the "Median" UK household income (after tax) to get a grip on it, not the average which inflates the figure.

Which is....how much per month?

More like how much it costs to buy those 100,000 Baht,at 2000GPB its damned expensive. Thailand is a third world country,prices should reflect that fact but they do not,vis-a-vis it's more expensive here than the UK in many instances.

Now the Euro is on the way down it makes Spain look damned attractive,especially in the way of housing and free medical care

How do you conclude that medical costs are "free" in Spain (or the UK or anywhere else in Europe)? What are the top marginal tax rates in most (all?) these European countries with "free" medical care...in the range of 70-80%...I would hardly call that "free" medical care.

I would venture in any case that for most people, 100k baht a month would buy them a higher standard of living in Thailand than would 2000 pounds back in most parts of Britain.

[Ulysses G.]

Thailand is a third world country,prices should reflect that fact

They do if you eat local foods and do not live in luxury housing. Marmite and Branston Pickle are even more expensive in the poorest parts of Africa than they are here.

Edited May 9, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[californiabeachboy]

I have lived in France and Australia in addition to my home state of California. I just returned from a visit to Thailand (Bangkok and Pattaya) to see how long I want to spend there.

My two cents worth:

Cost of living is very specific to your lifestyle. I like to cook and I like to eat all kinds of food. I will spend just as much on groceries in Pattaya as I would in California because I don't want to only eat Asian food. A jar of pasta sauce at the grocery store in Pattaya was more expensive than in California. Australian groceries are shockingly high in my opinion

Rent is clearly more expensive here in California - I pay about $1200 for a nice one bedroom apartment near the beach with a pool, spa and business center - my guess it would be half that in Pattaya, BUT I pay twenty dollars a month for electricity because I never need the heat or air-conditioning (very moderate climate). Based on my experience, if I was in Thailand, I would use enough electricity for air-conditioning to light up the Eiffel Tower every night.

The other issue for me is transportation. If you need a car, Australia is very expensive. I loved the baht buses in Pattaya - no need for a car.

Anyone looking at costs should simply make a list of the things they do each day - then do the math.

[JMS]

I agree in most cases that it is more expensive to live here than my home country but it is my choice. I have lived here for nearly 10 years and I spend around 150000 Baht per month but for me it is time to leave and go to a country where I can get more for my money. The only problem I have is a big house to sell

[jori]

How do you conclude that medical costs are "free" in Spain (or the UK or anywhere else in Europe)? What are the top marginal tax rates in most (all?) these European countries with "free" medical care...in the range of 70-80%...I would hardly call that "free" medical care.

I would venture in any case that for most people, 100k baht a month would buy them a higher standard of living in Thailand than would 2000 pounds back in most parts of Britain.

Free is free,Nada,nothing.Medical care to a limited amount in Spain or anywhere else in Europe is free,get to the magical figure of 65 years old and full care is free,drugs ,hospitalisation too,free is free.

Taxation I should think to UK retired here is no problem as pensions etc are taxed at source,probably 10% to 40% for most.

Anyway not talking of returning to UK but Spain or Italy,Canary Islands an option too,to hel_l with Marmite or Branstons pickle I can live without them.

Baht will be in the Baht 30 range today to the GBP,where's the suitcase,thank God no house ownership here,no chance of getting shut now.

House prices are a fraction now in Spain compared to a few years ago,far worse than here owners trying to get shut.

Edited May 10, 2010 by jori

[monsieurhappy]

adiós buen cierre

[FarangBuddha]

How do you conclude that medical costs are "free" in Spain (or the UK or anywhere else in Europe)? What are the top marginal tax rates in most (all?) these European countries with "free" medical care...in the range of 70-80%...I would hardly call that "free" medical care.

I would venture in any case that for most people, 100k baht a month would buy them a higher standard of living in Thailand than would 2000 pounds back in most parts of Britain.

Free is free,Nada,nothing.Medical care to a limited amount in Spain or anywhere else in Europe is free,get to the magical figure of 65 years old and full care is free,drugs ,hospitalisation too,free is free.

Taxation I should think to UK retired here is no problem as pensions etc are taxed at source,probably 10% to 40% for most.

Anyway not talking of returning to UK but Spain or Italy,Canary Islands an option too,to hel_l with Marmite or Branstons pickle I can live without them.

Baht will be in the Baht 30 range today to the GBP,where's the suitcase,thank God no house ownership here,no chance of getting shut now.

House prices are a fraction now in Spain compared to a few years ago,far worse than here owners trying to get shut.

I guess when the government takes 70% of your income and in return give you a flu-shot at no cost it's considered "free" medical care

Sorta funny economics...what do the Continentals call it...oh yeah a "social-market economy." Doesn't seem to have worked out too well for the Greeks (and Portuguese, Spanish, Italians, Irish, Latavians, Hungarians, and maybe even the Brits) however

[Phil Conners]

^ Maybe not, but it seems to work fine in Scandinavia, the Benelux and Germany. So what?

[Ulysses G.]

Don't forget Greece!

[FarangBuddha]

^ Maybe not, but it seems to work fine in Scandinavia, the Benelux and Germany. So what?

I was being nice leaving Germany off the list...since they will be paying for most of the financial chicanery (and outright fraud in Greece's case) of their Euro-brothers. But I certainly could have put them on...have you seen the public debt figures for the German states (as opposed to the Federal government...but which of course the Federal government is ultimately liable for)? If not, let me enlighten you...they're just as <deleted>#n scary as Greece or Italy

Oh and if you look back to one of my prior posts in this thread from last week, you will see I presciently predicted a 1 TRILLION Euro bailout of the southern European economies which of course has just been announced this morning

Edited May 10, 2010 by FarangBuddha

[jori]

How do you conclude that medical costs are "free" in Spain (or the UK or anywhere else in Europe)? What are the top marginal tax rates in most (all?) these European countries with "free" medical care...in the range of 70-80%...I would hardly call that "free" medical care.

I would venture in any case that for most people, 100k baht a month would buy them a higher standard of living in Thailand than would 2000 pounds back in most parts of Britain.

Like for like the UK to the USA I have done far better than my kith and kin in the USA.Free meaning I do not pay anything into the system,so free medical care and when I was paying it was 2% of my wages,I retired at 49 years old.Forget the top marginal rate of tax,hardly anybody is on it and lets face it anybody who was or is on it would not be residing in Thailand

A pre-requisite of residing in any tin-pot dis-jointed third world country is cheapness,that is no longer the case in Thailand,it seems I am paying a premium for my stay here,obviously that is a-changing,but it makes me cringe to shop here and see the mark up cpmpared to the UK.

I was shocked at the medical costs in the USA,one reason,(main one really) I will not be joining my family over there

[thaibeachlovers]

In real dollar terms, it is far more expensive to retire in Pattaya-Jomtien than it was 10 years ago..........certainly 15-20 years ago...........and the quality of what you are purchasing is not much better than it was in the past.

Quality of services rendered is also not much better if at all.

It is not all about exchange rates...........it is about pure stupidity..........raising prices as the economy turns weak.

It is also about massive greed (those wonderful developers that are ruining Pattaya-Jomtien).

And it is about "a sucker being born every minute." Fortunately, I think increasing numbers of potential buyers are waking up to the reality of the real estate market and making a wise decision not to purchase anything.

They should also not pay an excessive price for rent. The market is crashing. Eventually this reality will surface.

I am not sure how long the developers (and government officials that think by encouraging prices increases and raising the visa income bar Pattaya-Jomtien will turn into Monaco) can live in their fantasy world.

I know several expats that left ten years ago.........saw the writing on the wall...........and most had $$$$$$$$$

A major problem is if there is a solution to a problem, Thais will do the precise opposite of what that solutions tells them to do.

It is for this reason that I see other countries in the region benefiting from the mistakes Thailand is making in its approach to real estate, expats/retirees, quality tourists, business rules, visa rules in general, etc.

Don't have time to read 10 pages, but the OP has hit a concern, to be sure.

I'm living off Soi B and paying 5,000 a month, but all around there are fancy "apartments" for rent, at fancy prices. Also, there are many, many places under construction nearby. Either they know something we don't, or they just assumed the "golden geese" would keep coming indefinitely, and the rising baht is meaningless to Brit retirees ( as they would surely be the intended occupants ).

While you may be correct in your last paragraph, it's not an option for me, unfortunately.

[Gary A]

If you must eat imported food, any cost advantage you may have here in Thailand for other things is likely gone. Buying locally produced food is MUCH cheaper here. The last place I stayed in the US was California. A small studio apartment cost me $1,200 per month. When I rented here it was 7,000 baht per month ($220). A haircut in California was $12. Where I live upcountry it is 30 baht, less than a dollar. Hiring a handyman in California will cost you maybe $20 an hour. Here I pay 300 baht ($9.30) a DAY, not an hour. Repairing a flat tire here costs just over a dollar. Try that in California.