Thai Army Tells Red Shirts To Disperse From Rally Base

[hammered]

I wish the red apologists who wish to pretend that they are not on the side of Thaksin would make a better job of it.

Maybe they think it is better to dress up as Clark Kent but hide their Thaksin Superman clothes underneath

Yes, there are a lot of these, including the pseudo intellectuals that post on New Mandala and Bangkokpundit. Whenever Thaksin is mentioned by people who don't want a return to his dictatorial, corrupt regime, they claim that the red shirt rallies are nothing to do with Thaksin. However, the rallies are obviously a direct result of the Supreme Court assets case, largely paid for Thaksin and designed above all to achieve political changes that would lead to his return to power as soon as possible. Otherwise, setting a time table for early elections before the end of the year would be good enough.

I find Comrade Weng's plan to petitition the UN pitiful, given that his boss once told the UN it was not his father when he objected to the UN expressing concern over the thousands of brutal murders orchestrated by Thaksin in his war against alleged drug dealers. If he is scared of getting killed or maimed before he can enjoy his tax free offshore stipend, Weng should go home and take his cannon fodder with him, or better still go into exile like his boss and his fellow revolutionary, Jakraphob.

Asking for UN peacekeepers is just another diversion to keep up the illusion that these are peaceful protests. Thailand would be worse off under UN peacekeepers. You see they are professional soldiers. Soldiers who like to go home alive. Soldiers who would not hesitate to shoot the first person to jab at them with a sharp stick. They have no sympathy for the reds and don't speak Thai so they can't understand the lies being spouted........wait a minute I think I just convinced myself. UN please.

Mor Weng is quite clearly insane.

"Every man has got a breaking point. You and I have. Mor Weng has reached his. And very obviously, he has gone insane."

Bring in UN peacekeeping troops precisely because he and the other RS leaders refuse to negotiate???

Really, he has gone insane. Perhaps a result of reading "On Contradiction" over and over again in bad mountain light with mosquitoes biting the webbing between his fingers and toes. Christ, it nearly did me in and I only read it once.

Actually he is a Maoist and as such believes in the end jusitifies any means including lies, deaths and fabrications if necessary. That is just basci Maoist philosophy for revolution. Best to take what he says with a pinch of salt

There are lots of other liers and propagandists in this whole power struggle on all sides so he isnt alone but he has his own brand. He isnt insane

[Silurian]

I live in the middle of the city surrounded by the Red Shirts in central Bangkok, and I just do not feel safe.

They basically have become thugs. There is no more "democracy" in BKK right now. The red shirts decide for everyone what street is open, who and how we are free to move in the center of the city. They even stop and search people.

I do not feel safe around them any more. They have become too full of themselves. They have stopped me to tell me that I cannot drive down the street that i live on, where my family lives. One guy even chased me on my motorcycle as I went home because that day they just made a decision that no traffic was to go down that road.

This is the closest to Anarchy I have ever lived, seriously.

So now anyone has the right to check on you or your car. All sense of personal space and privacy has just gone by the wayside. Guess you need to carry both a UDD and a PAD membership card. Just show the proper one when stopped.

[pornsasi]

About Thaksin

I was reading again reports about Tak Bai and the war on drugs in Amnesty International where thousands of innocent died victim of summary execution with Thaksin appoval . We have here an ex PM who did not believe in civil society . There is a sentence in the US constitution and same in other democratic countrie's one that says "No one should be deprieved of life or liberty without due process of justice" . The most if not the only criteria needed for any politician is to uphold high moral standard . Remember Gen Prem comparing Thaksin to Hitler , for once I agree with him . Thaksin is definitely not fit to serve in any position of power In thailand or elsewhere , regardless of his achievement in the economic field . In fact he should face trial .

Which brings me to Abhisit

Why did he not ask those famillies of victims of tak bai & war on drugs to act as witnesses at a possible trial of Thaksin . Because that would be very embarassing to the Army and since Abhisit holds his position thanks to a military coup and a military junta's appointed court , that would be impolite . Would be the way to have Thaksin extradited though instead of instructing his clownish foreign minister to ask .

As for the April 10th shooting , why did Abhisit not order the arrest of the red leaders at their hotel FIRST instead, rather then sending the army after a peaceful crowd . Later when he finally did that those police did not even know Arisman room number LOL . Well in terms of intelligence in every sense of that word Abhisit does not shine from where i stand . Not to mention his clampdown on every bit of media owned by the reds which has made him about as popular as the plague rat in the international public opinion .. Anyway

Heard that the red leaders are ready to negociate now . Hope that brings a peaceful end to the protests . Sounds more to me as if the red rank and file just want to show they exist and be heard then truly a political demonstration . Besides the party aspect , street vendors and so on .

Anyway since i like neither Thaksin nor Abhisit , i must now get myself a new color of shirt .

Purple may be ?

[Arkady]

I have the feeling that this is going to end badly. Thaksin has nothing to lose and is hoping for a win in any scenario. Either he gets his way and Parliament is dissolved, paving the way for Pheu Thai to campaign on a platform of reforming the constitution in such way as to white wash his current and pending convictions and allow him back to Thailand asap with full political rights restored. Failing that he would still be happy with a blood bath as a second best that he hopes would allow him to take the moral high ground and still hope to come back to power, albeit on a longer time frame (remember his hysterical TV appearances last April when he was trying to convince the world the blood bath had already taken place?). Therefore he is not going to call off the dogs. Everyone he cares about is safely overseas and he is carefully positioning himself to make it look as if there is some distance between him and red shirt leaders to avoid, both the charge that it is all about his money, and very importantly the risk of the stigma that Chamlong received for leading demonstraters to their deaths in 1992.

Chavalit seems to be making things much worse by coming in from left field petitioning the King to intervene and apparently even challenging the consitutional precept that HMK is above politics, although I would bet on him saying he was misquoted on this point later. Given that Chavalit, who was incidently accused of sounding like a Marxist in the early 90s, is very much part of the problem in as much as he is chairman of Pheua Thai and in a position to push for the red shirt leaders to negotiate and is also seems to be in touch with rogue elements within the army, this is likely to be inflammatory to those who point to the Marxists like Dr Weng and other republican fellow travellers, such as the exiled Giles Ungkaporn, within the red shirt ranks as a real threat to the monarchy. Many royalists may feel that Chavalit's (Somchai is regarded as so light weight as to be inconsequential despite being Thaksin's brother-in-law) to attempt to pressure the monarch, particularly while he is still recuperating from serious illness in hospital, is intolerable and fear that law and order is about to break down completely in a way that could see death squads assassinating anyone declared an "amart" by red shirt leaders. The prevaling rhetoric, reminiscient of 1976, and the pressure building up from Anti-Thakin groups, combined with anarchic incidents such as the sabotage attempt on the fuel tank and the capture of the military train in Khon Khaen, seem to suggest that a bloody crackdown in imminent. I hope I am wrong.

Edited April 22, 2010 by Arkady

[humfurry]

I live in the middle of the city surrounded by the Red Shirts in central Bangkok, and I just do not feel safe.

They basically have become thugs. There is no more "democracy" in BKK right now. The red shirts decide for everyone what street is open, who and how we are free to move in the center of the city. They even stop and search people.

I do not feel safe around them any more. They have become too full of themselves. They have stopped me to tell me that I cannot drive down the street that i live on, where my family lives. One guy even chased me on my motorcycle as I went home because that day they just made a decision that no traffic was to go down that road.

This is the closest to Anarchy I have ever lived, seriously.

So now anyone has the right to check on you or your car. All sense of personal space and privacy has just gone by the wayside. Guess you need to carry both a UDD and a PAD membership card. Just show the proper one when stopped.

Oops, wrong post

Edited April 22, 2010 by humfurry

[phupaman]

Hi All.

Remember October 7th 2008 , The police did not hold back, should be more of the same.

fredro

[humfurry]

"Actually he is a Maoist and as such believes in the end jusitifies any means including lies, deaths and fabrications if necessary. That is just basci Maoist philosophy for revolution. Best to take what he says with a pinch of salt

There are lots of other liers and propagandists in this whole power struggle on all sides so he isnt alone but he has his own brand. He isn't insane"

All Maoist are insane

But not all insane people are Maoists

Cheers, Aristotle

[pornsasi]

I have the feeling that this is going to end badly. Thaksin has nothing to lose and is hoping for a win in any scenario. Either he gets his way and Parliament is dissolved, paving the way for Pheu Thai to campaign on a platform of reforming the constitution in such way as to white wash his current and pending convictions and allow back to Thailand asap with full political rights restored. Failing that he would still be happy with a blood bath as a second best that he hopes would allow him to take the moral high ground and still hope to come back, albeit on a longer time frame (remember his hysterical TV appearances last April when he was trying to convince the world the blood bath had already taken place). Therefore he is not going to call off the dogs. Everyone he cares about is safely overseas and he is carefully positioning himself to make it look as if there is some distance between him and red shirt leaders to avoid the stigma that Chamlong received for leading demonstraters to their deaths in 1992.

Chavalit seems to be making things much worse by coming in from left field petitioning the King to intervene and apparently challenging the consitutional precept that HMK is above politics. Given that Chavalit is very much part of the problem in as much as he is chairman of Pheua Thai and in a position to push for the red shirt leaders to negotiate and is also seems to be in touch with rogue elements within the army, this is likely to be inflammatory to those who point to the Marxists like Dr Weng and other republican fellow travellers within the red shirt ranks as a real threat to the monarchy. Many royalists may feel that this attempt to pressure the monarch is intolerable. The prevaling rhetoric and the pressure building up from Anti-Thakin groups, combined with anarchic incidents such as the sabotage attempt on the fuel tank and the capture of the military train in Khon Khaen, seem to suggest that a crackdown in imminent.

Go for a crackdown and risk kilings and civil war ? That would really make Thailand popular LOL . If Gen Anupong wanted to do it , it would have been done already. As he said that must end in a political solution , brute force can not solve the situation . Safe way is to pressure for negociation and wait for the red leaders to surrender on 15 May . If they dont ... them maybe use force to arrest them

[denissr]

Someone wrote that there is a double standard here with the Reds and Yellows. It seems as if both have equally interrupted the normal business and laws of the Country. I think there has been too much tolerance for both sides. In a real Democracy you can't have this much lawlessness from ether side. It is not my Country, so it is not up to me to tell them how to do things, just an observation. I have the luxury, I can stay or leave.

[Neurath]

Mor Weng is quite clearly insane.

"Every man has got a breaking point. You and I have. Mor Weng has reached his. And very obviously, he has gone insane."

Bring in UN peacekeeping troops precisely because he and the other RS leaders refuse to negotiate???

Really, he has gone insane. Perhaps a result of reading "On Contradiction" over and over again in bad mountain light with mosquitoes biting the webbing between his fingers and toes. Christ, it nearly did me in and I only read it once.

Actually he is a Maoist and as such believes in the end jusitifies any means including lies, deaths and fabrications if necessary. That is just basci Maoist philosophy for revolution. Best to take what he says with a pinch of salt

There are lots of other liers and propagandists in this whole power struggle on all sides so he isnt alone but he has his own brand. He isnt insane

Actually, is he?

Are you schoolin me Mr. Hammered? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_Contradict...28Mao_Zedong%29

[humfurry]

oops again

Edited April 22, 2010 by humfurry

[jackr]

I do not feel safe around them any more. They have become too full of themselves.

They are, totally; and reason enough they need to be stomped on. If there was any other response, such as sitting down with them and giving them what they want, the whole place would become so much more unstable and unsafe. No doubt there are decent elements among the rough, but the overriding persona is one of thuggery.

[pornsasi]

I seems as if EVERY thread about current events gets hijacked back to the yellow airport incident. I think this should be a mod issue. ONE thread to talk about that. It shouldn't be acceptable for this done to the death aspect of it to dominate EVERY other topic, especially now, that Thailand is possibly on the verge of civil war.

I do have a proposal about this. I suggest people in future ignore all references to the airport incident. We all know about it ALREADY. We all know the red rationale about that, that they claim they are now excused of ALL crimes because of that past. Nothing new. Why ever reply to this gambit?

Its about the same when some here say that reds are all Thaksin slaves

Edited April 22, 2010 by pornsasi

[humfurry]

[pornsasi]

Im really tired of waiting for this 'final showdown' if you're gonna kill them then kill them quickly, if not then go back to your barracks and the other colored shirts will take care of what you cant...then it can finally all be over.

Another armchair Rambo

[Jingthing]

I seems as if EVERY thread about current events gets hijacked back to the yellow airport incident. I think this should be a mod issue. ONE thread to talk about that. It shouldn't be acceptable for this done to the death aspect of it to dominate EVERY other topic, especially now, that Thailand is possibly on the verge of civil war.

I do have a proposal about this. I suggest people in future ignore all references to the airport incident. We all know about it ALREADY. We all know the red rationale about that, that they claim they are now excused of ALL crimes because of that past. Nothing new. Why ever reply to this gambit?

Its about the same when some here say that reds are all Thaksin slaves

No, sir, it is NOT the same. Here is why. Right now, the problem is with the reds. If some yellows and "multi-colors" are now emerging, it is ONLY because of the outrageous violent illegal actions of the reds. It is the reds day. Later, maybe it will be yellows we are talking about again doing something outrageous. But not now.

Edited April 22, 2010 by Jingthing

[jackr]

Im really tired of waiting for this 'final showdown' if you're gonna kill them then kill them quickly, if not then go back to your barracks and the other colored shirts will take care of what you cant...then it can finally all be over.

I'd say the idea is to scare away the non-hardcore folk and then get in there and do the biz.

[Jingthing]

I do not feel safe around them any more. They have become too full of themselves.

They are, totally; and reason enough they need to be stomped on. If there was any other response, such as sitting down with them and giving them what they want, the whole place would become so much more unstable and unsafe. No doubt there are decent elements among the rough, but the overriding persona is one of thuggery.

Some of the rougher factions seriously remind me of some of those crazed African boy soldiers from various horrific wars there, hopped on drugs with a real blood lust.

[pornsasi]

I wish the red apologists who wish to pretend that they are not on the side of Thaksin would make a better job of it.

Maybe they think it is better to dress up as Clark Kent but hide their Thaksin Superman clothes underneath

Yes, there are a lot of these, including the pseudo intellectuals that post on New Mandala and Bangkokpundit. Whenever Thaksin is mentioned by people who don't want a return to his dictatorial, corrupt regime, they claim that the red shirt rallies are nothing to do with Thaksin. However, the rallies are obviously a direct result of the Supreme Court assets case, largely paid for Thaksin and designed above all to achieve political changes that would lead to his return to power as soon as possible. Otherwise, setting a time table for early elections before the end of the year would be good enough.

I find Comrade Weng's plan to petitition the UN pitiful, given that his boss once told the UN it was not his father when he objected to the UN expressing concern over the thousands of brutal murders orchestrated by Thaksin in his war against alleged drug dealers. If he is scared of getting killed or maimed before he can enjoy his tax free offshore stipend, Weng should go home and take his cannon fodder with him, or better still go into exile like his boss and his fellow revolutionary, Jakraphob.

Asking for UN peacekeepers is just another diversion to keep up the illusion that these are peaceful protests. Thailand would be worse off under UN peacekeepers. You see they are professional soldiers. Soldiers who like to go home alive. Soldiers who would not hesitate to shoot the first person to jab at them with a sharp stick. They have no sympathy for the reds and don't speak Thai so they can't understand the lies being spouted........wait a minute I think I just convinced myself. UN please.

Mor Weng is quite clearly insane.

"Every man has got a breaking point. You and I have. Mor Weng has reached his. And very obviously, he has gone insane."

Bring in UN peacekeeping troops precisely because he and the other RS leaders refuse to negotiate???

Really, he has gone insane. Perhaps a result of reading "On Contradiction" over and over again in bad mountain light with mosquitoes biting the webbing between his fingers and toes. Christ, it nearly did me in and I only read it once.

Weng as Colonel Kurt now

[pornsasi]

I seems as if EVERY thread about current events gets hijacked back to the yellow airport incident. I think this should be a mod issue. ONE thread to talk about that. It shouldn't be acceptable for this done to the death aspect of it to dominate EVERY other topic, especially now, that Thailand is possibly on the verge of civil war.

I do have a proposal about this. I suggest people in future ignore all references to the airport incident. We all know about it ALREADY. We all know the red rationale about that, that they claim they are now excused of ALL crimes because of that past. Nothing new. Why ever reply to this gambit?

Its about the same when some here say that reds are all Thaksin slaves

No, sir, it is NOT the same. Here is why. Right now, the problem is with the reds. If some yellows and "multi-colors" are now emerging, it is ONLY because of the outrageous violent illegal actions of the reds. It is the reds day. Later, maybe it will be yellows we are talking about again doing something outrageous. But not now.

There is violence NOW ? Source please ?

[chadintheusa]

Someone wrote that there is a double standard here with the Reds and Yellows. It seems as if both have equally interrupted the normal business and laws of the Country. I think there has been too much tolerance for both sides. In a real Democracy you can't have this much lawlessness from ether side. It is not my Country, so it is not up to me to tell them how to do things, just an observation. I have the luxury, I can stay or leave.

Why are reds complaining about double standards. The reds have not been dispersed and are allowed to continue their protest. The pinks, yellows and whatnot have not been dispersed either. They have both received equal treatment under the current law. Dispersing the Pinks et al would be a double standard because the two sides would be treated differently, that's what a double standard is. It is hypocritical to call for the government to intervene with the Pinks when the reds are at this very moment breaking the same law they want enforced. The multishade protesters are upset that the law has not been enforced, and if the reds went home there would be no need for them to protest either.

[Redsunset]

Im really tired of waiting for this 'final showdown' if you're gonna kill them then kill them quickly, if not then go back to your barracks and the other colored shirts will take care of what you cant...then it can finally all be over.

Another armchair Rambo

Actually, I am getting so dam_n sick of hearing people threaten that they will do this or that, or something is going to happen, then nothing happens... typical, hysterical behavior of people who believe in ghosts and black magic.... I'm so bored of all the blah blah blah... tell me when something REALLY HAPPENS....

[humfurry]

Weng as Colonel Kurt now

[Redsunset]

Someone wrote that there is a double standard here with the Reds and Yellows. It seems as if both have equally interrupted the normal business and laws of the Country. I think there has been too much tolerance for both sides. In a real Democracy you can't have this much lawlessness from ether side. It is not my Country, so it is not up to me to tell them how to do things, just an observation. I have the luxury, I can stay or leave.

Why are reds complaining about double standards. The reds have not been dispersed and are allowed to continue their protest. The pinks, yellows and whatnot have not been dispersed either. They have both received equal treatment under the current law. Dispersing the Pinks et al would be a double standard because the two sides would be treated differently, that's what a double standard is. It is hypocritical to call for the government to intervene with the Pinks when the reds are at this very moment breaking the same law they want enforced. The multishade protesters are upset that the law has not been enforced, and if the reds went home there would be no need for them to protest either.

There are so many different colored shirts... why we could create a protest league... the pinks versus the multicoloreds, versus the reds, versus the blues... we could even have divisions and regions, such as the Northeast Region, Central Region, Southern Region.. then we could start betting on who will actually DO SOMETHING FIRST....

[pornsasi]

Someone wrote that there is a double standard here with the Reds and Yellows. It seems as if both have equally interrupted the normal business and laws of the Country. I think there has been too much tolerance for both sides. In a real Democracy you can't have this much lawlessness from ether side. It is not my Country, so it is not up to me to tell them how to do things, just an observation. I have the luxury, I can stay or leave.

Why are reds complaining about double standards. The reds have not been dispersed and are allowed to continue their protest. The pinks, yellows and whatnot have not been dispersed either. They have both received equal treatment under the current law. Dispersing the Pinks et al would be a double standard because the two sides would be treated differently, that's what a double standard is. It is hypocritical to call for the government to intervene with the Pinks when the reds are at this very moment breaking the same law they want enforced. The multishade protesters are upset that the law has not been enforced, and if the reds went home there would be no need for them to protest either.

You are right . Almost ... After 23 deaths they can continue... for now ...

[Neurath]

"Every man has got a breaking point. You and I have. Mor Weng has reached his. And very obviously, he has gone insane."

[/b]

Bring in UN peacekeeping troops precisely because he and the other RS leaders refuse to negotiate???

Really, he has gone insane. Perhaps a result of reading "On Contradiction" over and over again in bad mountain light with mosquitoes biting the webbing between his fingers and toes. Christ, it nearly did me in and I only read it once.

Weng as Colonel Kurt now

Only the insane bit. His use of language is far less poetic and he has more hair.

[Redsunset]

I seems as if EVERY thread about current events gets hijacked back to the yellow airport incident. I think this should be a mod issue. ONE thread to talk about that. It shouldn't be acceptable for this done to the death aspect of it to dominate EVERY other topic, especially now, that Thailand is possibly on the verge of civil war.

I do have a proposal about this. I suggest people in future ignore all references to the airport incident. We all know about it ALREADY. We all know the red rationale about that, that they claim they are now excused of ALL crimes because of that past. Nothing new. Why ever reply to this gambit?

Its about the same when some here say that reds are all Thaksin slaves

No, sir, it is NOT the same. Here is why. Right now, the problem is with the reds. If some yellows and "multi-colors" are now emerging, it is ONLY because of the outrageous violent illegal actions of the reds. It is the reds day. Later, maybe it will be yellows we are talking about again doing something outrageous. But not now.

There is violence NOW ? Source please ?

Source? Fantasyland...

[generalgrant]

People dead and injured and some fat old men sit here laughing.

Sick

[Jingthing]

There is violence NOW ? Source please ?

Why do you ask me this? Did I say such a thing? No, I didn't. I suspect you are not a serious poster so best you don't ask me any future questions, I don't like to play such games. Right now the reds are illegally occupying an important district in Bangkok and preparing to resist violently. Nobody believes they will allow themselves to be peacefully arrested when the soldiers come.

[dobadoy]

I have the feeling that this is going to end badly. Thaksin has nothing to lose and is hoping for a win in any scenario. Either he gets his way and Parliament is dissolved, paving the way for Pheu Thai to campaign on a platform of reforming the constitution in such way as to white wash his current and pending convictions and allow him back to Thailand asap with full political rights restored. Failing that he would still be happy with a blood bath as a second best that he hopes would allow him to take the moral high ground and still hope to come back to power, albeit on a longer time frame (remember his hysterical TV appearances last April when he was trying to convince the world the blood bath had already taken place?). Therefore he is not going to call off the dogs. Everyone he cares about is safely overseas and he is carefully positioning himself to make it look as if there is some distance between him and red shirt leaders to avoid, both the charge that it is all about his money, and very importantly the risk of the stigma that Chamlong received for leading demonstraters to their deaths in 1992.

Chavalit seems to be making things much worse by coming in from left field petitioning the King to intervene and apparently even challenging the consitutional precept that HMK is above politics, although I would bet on him saying he was misquoted on this point later. Given that Chavalit, who was incidently accused of sounding like a Marxist in the early 90s, is very much part of the problem in as much as he is chairman of Pheua Thai and in a position to push for the red shirt leaders to negotiate and is also seems to be in touch with rogue elements within the army, this is likely to be inflammatory to those who point to the Marxists like Dr Weng and other republican fellow travellers, such as the exiled Giles Ungkaporn, within the red shirt ranks as a real threat to the monarchy. Many royalists may feel that Chavalit's (Somchai is regarded as so light weight as to be inconsequential despite being Thaksin's brother-in-law) to attempt to pressure the monarch, particularly while he is still recuperating from serious illness in hospital, is intolerable and fear that law and order is about to break down completely in a way that could see death squads assassinating anyone declared an "amart" by red shirt leaders. The prevaling rhetoric, reminiscient of 1976, and the pressure building up from Anti-Thakin groups, combined with anarchic incidents such as the sabotage attempt on the fuel tank and the capture of the military train in Khon Khaen, seem to suggest that a bloody crackdown in imminent. I hope I am wrong.

good post. I hope you are wrong too, but only for some reasons and not others. I hope you are wrong in that the reds will find some self-interested reason to make compromise a better deal for them. On the other hand, I hope you are not wrong because the gov't either lacks the power or the will to enforce the law. The intimidation is clear for anyone with eyes to see - if this gov't is seen to lose out to mob rule, it will - as many other have said all along - infect every other govt (red or yellow) attempt to bring peace and prosperity to this land for a generation or more.

I agree with others who say forcibly evicting and arresting the wrongdoers will not solve the problem - you will probably get a very dangerous post-period in which the militant factions start a campaign of terrorism similar to ETA in Spain, IRA in Ireland and indeed, what is happening in the Deep South of Thailand. However, I still the consequences of that as far less damaging to the country as a whole than victory of mob rule over law and order.

If that happens, the red-shirts on this forum will be pleased to know I and my family will be out of here, for sure.