Bangkok: Assailants Fired M-79 Grenades At Sala Daeng Skytrain Station

[retdson]

I fear the Reds might get their wish and true democracy comes to BKK. I fear that the majority will rule, a mob war, Red againts Yellow. The last one standing wins, with the army, police and government standing by watching. Has a civil war begun??

I don't think it's begun, but I'm be beginning to think it can't be stopped. There seems to be a total lack of political sophistication on ALL sides in this conflict.

1) Taksin remains ludicrously popular even after being proven a crook and a liar. Transferring assets to his chauffeur and expecting anyone to believe it wasn't done to hide them - utterly absurd - it would make him unelectable in a proper democracy.

2) The army staged a coup with the connivance of some very important people, in the process tearing up the constitution and the existing rule of law in the country. In a proper democracy their action would be treason and half of them would now be in jail or at the very least disgraced - along with their backers.

2) The Democrats connived and were even party to the PAD take over of the country's main international airport - in the process holding tens of thousands of travelers hostage and the whole country to ransom. Again, in a proper democracy, half of them would be in jail now and / or bankrupted by fines and damages.

3) The police and judiciary stood by in all the above and allowed it to happen - didn't even protest - as they're currently doing now. Why are people allowed to display weapons, disrupt civil society, engage in street battles and NO ONE ever comes before a court of law?

In ANY functioning democracy, the rule of law is paramount and other than a few marginal nutters EVERYONE knows it. There is no way that overt criminal behaviour can be tolerated - even by one's own side. Simple common sense says that if it is - the whole place descends into anarchy.

Which is where we are today. The problem for me is that I haven't heard ONE person on the Democrat/ yellow side say 'we were wrong to take over the airport'. On the contrary - you have a main protagonist promoted to Foreign Minister going about complaining about other people being crooks. LIkewise, not one person on the Red side has ever admitted that Taksin is an unprincipled twister who fiddled the books and abused his position.

And as long as the whole country is in total denial - really there's no hope at all.

Edited April 22, 2010 by retdson

[multistar28]

Flashpoint Silom April 22, 2010 Thursday, 08:22 AM Nirmal Ghosh witnesses a possible sign of things to come 1am, Thursday : I got to Sala Daeng yesterday (Wed) afternoon, and made my way to the Au Bon Pain cafe right next to the Dusit Thani hotel, at the corner of the intersection across from the Red Shirt barricades next to Lumpini Park.

A couple of hundred pro-government demonstrators were gathered on the sidewalk outside waving Thai flags and yelling at the Red Shirts. There were police making sure they stayed clear of the road to let traffic through. More police were lined up at the side gate to the Dusit. But passions seemed high on the part of the flag-waving pro-government crowd, and their numbers were steadily growing. Sensing the mood, I tweeted that Sala Daeng was an accident waiting to happen.

Later, I watched it unfold. There was little satisfaction in having been right.

I had made a round of the Red Shirt barricades by then. Behind the bristling bamboo and car tyre barricade some four to five metres high, the Red Shirts were roaming around with bamboo staves, some of them sharpened. One seemed to have arrows. Others seemed to be making slingshots.

I was told by journalist friends that they had chilli powder mixtures as well though I didn't see any. I didn't see any firearms. At one point a big BMW pulled up and reversed behind the barricade and a uniformed chauffeur got out, opened the boot and started unloading food. Another time, a pickup truck came by and Red Shirts on the truck hurled big plastic bags full of styrofoam-packed food high into the barricade where they were grabbed by eager hands and distributed. Many motorists wound down windows as they passed and cheered the Red Shirts.

I made my way back to the other side of the street and hunkered down in the Au Bon Pain and wrote my first report while the yelling outside grew more and more hysterical. Then the cafe finally decided to close early, and I shifted to the business centre at the Dusit and wrote my second report. When I was done, around 8.30pm, I went back out and joined other journalists watching the drama unfold.

The mood among the pro-government crowd became more and more ragged, with a couple of passing red-shirted taxi drivers having their cabs bashed. But around 10pm, the mood appeared to settle as many people left. I was on the point of heading home when some rowdy men began to get out of hand, running out into the intersection threateningly.

I saw the precise moment when the riot started. At around 11pm, some of the pro-government demonstrators were running out into the intersection taunting the Reds, and then one finally let fly with a large stone. That of course was the signal for a barrage of stones and bottles from the pro-government mob.

Only about 20 or so were involved, but it was enough to create tremendous chaos. Glass shattered on the street and rocks cracked and bounced as they went for the Reds – who retaliated with rocks and slingshots of their own but held their line and did not come charging out.

Meanwhile cross-traffic was still flowing, crunching over the rocks and broken glass. I wonder if some of the cars were hit as they crossed between the battling sides.

The Reds vastly outnumbered the pro-government protestors, but held their ground. The pro-government men periodically surged out into the intersection to throw missiles at the barricades. Some hung back, crouching in the shrubbery on the verge, aiming carefully and letting loose with slingshots – deadly when fired with small ball bearings or marbles.

All the while, police deployed on the ground, and soldiers on the pedestrian overpass above, did absolutely nothing to stop or separate the two sides. In fact the police even moved one of their trucks out of the way of the rampaging pro-government men.

A Thai man dressed in a white shirt spoke to me as we took cover behind a wall, with rocks flying around us. "What do you think Thais should do?" he asked me. It was a difficult question. I thought for a moment and said "Sit down and talk about the issues".

He looked sad and then told me that "Thais only learn when many people are killed".

Seconds later, a large Thai man in ordinary clothing translated a sign lying on the sidewalk which proclaimed that Red Shirts were goons in the pay of ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra. Then he put his arm around me and led me away and whispered in my ear "I am Red Shirt".

He said he was a taxi drover, and the pro-government men were from the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), the formerly yellow-clad right-wing group that closed down three airports in 2008 to paralyse the pro-Thaksin government of the time, paving the way for its fall which eventually came through a court decision to disband it because one of its executives had cheated in the last election. That paved the way for the Democrat Party to take power.

It is obvious to independent observers that the so-called "no colour" or "multi-colour" crowds that have emerged lately, are largely the PAD in a different form. They have been urging the government to crack down on the Red Shirts of the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD), and have even threatened to do it themselves if the government and army did not.

They certainly tried at Sala Daeng, though not in force. But the Reds were fairly disciplined and thankfully the riot did not escalate into a full-blown fight. At least twice, the Red Shirts fired firecrackers at the pro-government men who ran helter skelter, but returned to pelt them with stones. The men were banging paving stones on the hard concrete to break them into smaller pieces. One young man ran past me with a sack full of empty bottles, heading for the fight.

At one point a foreigner who appeared to be a tourist, wearing black clothes but with a red armband, was roughed up by the pro-government men, but some among them got him away. That was at around 1145pm and seemed to trigger the police into action.

They formed a double line at the top of the road facing the pro-government crowd, which included some women who were hurling rocks and bottles as much as the men. The arrival of the police seemed to embolden them and they started screaming abuses at the Reds – insulting Thai terms like "hia" – monitor lizard – and "khwai" – buffalo, a common insult used by a certain section of the Bangkokian middle classes against rural people from the north-east, where most of the Reds are from.

The police then turned around and faced towards the Reds, which came as a bit of a surprise. But two big police trucks finally showed up then and parked right in front of the police lines, and then the violence seemed to peter out a bit.

The interesting part of the evening was that the police and soldiers did nothing to stop the pro-government crowd, which incidentally was also, like the Reds, in violation of the Emergency Decree which prohibits assembly of more than five people. Yet they were allowed to assemble and yell at the Reds in a gradual escalation all afternoon, which finally exploded at night with the police and soldiers simply looking on.

Sala Daeng was and could be the flashpoint, which will see Thais battling Thais in this divided country that appears to many, to be sliding into a civil war. The right-wingers say they are fighting for the nation and the King. The Red Shirts – from the same nation – say they are fighting for their democratic right to have an election and have the results accepted and respected. The right-wingers despise and denigrate them as ignorant rabble seduced by Thaksin's money.

Someone tweeted me in the middle of all this, to say that "This is straight out of the 1976 playbook. Get goons to do the dirty work and wash your hands of it".

The year 1976 was a dreadful one in which mobs egged on by right-wing rabble-rousers launched into a horrible massacre at Thammasat University, in which leftist students were hanged and beaten and shot to death.

Thais say their nation has never been so divided as it today. The rage on either side is palpable. Families and friends and couples have been torn by it. Red Shirts kick and stamp on pictures of Privy Council president general Prem Tinsulanonda, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva, and army chief general Anupong Paochinda, and scrawl obscene and insulting graffiti against them. Pro-government right-wing elements heckle and attack Red Shirts and kick and smash their cars and shout "Ai! Khwai!" as they pass.

A people versus people bloodbath may be part of the playbook, forcing the army to wade in. But times are different now from 1976, and there is no telling what the consequences may be.

April 10 was a signal of just how bad things can become. And they could get a lot worse unless there is some political compromise at the top. The window for such a compromise, however, is closing fast.

In today's The Nation, Supalak Ganjanakhundee wrote: "Thais appear to be keen on expanding the ongoing conflict instead of containing it, with many different colour-coded groups emerging to confront the Red-Shirt protesters. Such confrontation would only orchestrate violence, if not a civil war."

It is worth quoting Supalak further, because he explains the echo of 1976.

"On Tuesday" he wrote, "an unknown group of people put up stickers on Silom Road saying that the Red-Shirt group wanted a new Thailand with Thaksin as president. A move like this suggests that the right wing and elitist forces are employing old tactics to label the opponents as anti-monarchists."

''On October 6, 1976, student activists in Thammasat University were massacred just because they were accused of being anti-monarchists.

"The stickers on Silom Road prompted an immediate denial from Thaksin, with the Red-Shirt leaders declaring on Tuesday that it was a dirty political game. They know the power of anti-monarchy accusations.

"If Abhisit and his government are gentle and fair enough, they should be able to limit the conflict and stop a third hand from using this sensitive issue to make things worse.

"Calling the protesters terrorists and turning a normal political protest into a national security issue and a threat to the revered institution, is uncivilised and unfair. Besides, such tactics will only make the problem more complicated and difficult to resolve," concluded Supalak.

[Sabre]

What is the difference between martial law and the state of emergency what is ongoing now?

How it would affect to the government / military and to the public?

The army has ability to do what ever it needs to to quell the emergency.

Curfews,

Shoot on sight violent people of any color shirt

Arrest and secure anyone resiting an army order INCLUDING Police.

It essentially is a get the job done now, we'll pick up the mess later, pass.

If it is national this will be a major long term thing if Reds start more bombing everywhere.

http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/martial+law

Martial law is an extreme and rare measure

used to control society during war or periods of civil unrest or chaos.

According to the Supreme Court, the term martial law carries no precise meaning

(Duncan v. Kahanamoku, 327 U.S. 304, 66 S. Ct. 606, 90 L. Ed. 688 [1946]).

However, most declarations of martial law have some common features.

Generally, the institution of martial law contemplates some use of military force.

To a varying extent, depending on the martial law order,

government military personnel have the authority to make and enforce civil and criminal laws.

Certain civil liberties may be suspended, such as

The right to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures,

Freedom of association,

Freedom of movement.

And the writ of Habeas Corpus may be suspended

(this writ allows persons who are unlawfully imprisoned to gain freedom through a court proceeding).

In the United States, martial law has been instituted on the national level only once, during the Civil War,

and on a regional level only once, during World War II.

Otherwise, it has been limited to the states.

Uprisings, political protests, labor strikes, and riots have, at various times,

caused several state governors to declare some measure of martial law.

That's a nice summary of the law of the United States of America.

[whiterussian]

Has a civil war begun??

I don't think it's begun, but I'm be beginning to think it can't be stopped. There seems to be a total lack of political sophistication on ALL sides in this conflict....

Great post!... and your 21st post since 2007!

Edited April 22, 2010 by whiterussian

[justSumGai]

on a side note ***IF*** the military could get SECURE supply line, these propelled grenades MIGHT not be so often used. Seem as easy to get as pad thai. Not that it would help against such stuff coming from countries around but at least it would be good if the gov could point out they are not missing any. Not that anyone would believe efficient and secure procurement and storage in the LOS.

[bobby906]

Has a civil war begun??

I don't think it's begun, but I'm be beginning to think it can't be stopped. There seems to be a total lack of political sophistication on ALL sides in this conflict....

Great post!... and your 21st post since 2007!

I think this bombing incident is the nail in the coffin for the red shirt leaders -they cannot disclaim accountability. Jatuporn and the others need to be arrested and held without bail -and put on trial for crimes against humanity/treason/inciting hatred etc. etc.

[Skywalker69]

Video taken at Saladaeng BTS station immediately after one of the explosions:

Source: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xd1i3v_us...04_news?start=0

Author: Olivier Rotrou

--

Maestro

I don´t understand why the "farangs" don´t stay out of the area.

[Maestro]

Thai tensions rise after explosions

Explosions in the Thailand capital Bangkok, have killed at least three people and wounded more than 70.

The blasts, which the government blamed on grenades, apparently targeted a small group of anti red-shirt protesters.

Alistair Leithead reports from Bangkok.

-- BBC 2010-04-22

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[featography]

...one pink shirt was seen beating up a red shirt at the SkyTrain station...

That's a good start.

Why are you pro-violence?

with an avatar of che why do you ask?

[connel707]

Flashpoint Silom April 22, 2010 Thursday, 08:22 AM Nirmal Ghosh witnesses a possible sign of things to come 1am, Thursday : I got to Sala Daeng yesterday (Wed) afternoon, and made my way to the Au Bon Pain cafe right next to the Dusit Thani hotel, at the corner of the intersection across from the Red Shirt barricades next to Lumpini Park.

A couple of hundred pro-government demonstrators were gathered on the sidewalk outside waving Thai flags and yelling at the Red Shirts. There were police making sure they stayed clear of the road to let traffic through. More police were lined up at the side gate to the Dusit. But passions seemed high on the part of the flag-waving pro-government crowd, and their numbers were steadily growing. Sensing the mood, I tweeted that Sala Daeng was an accident waiting to happen.

Later, I watched it unfold. There was little satisfaction in having been right.

I had made a round of the Red Shirt barricades by then. Behind the bristling bamboo and car tyre barricade some four to five metres high, the Red Shirts were roaming around with bamboo staves, some of them sharpened. One seemed to have arrows. Others seemed to be making slingshots.

I was told by journalist friends that they had chilli powder mixtures as well though I didn't see any. I didn't see any firearms. At one point a big BMW pulled up and reversed behind the barricade and a uniformed chauffeur got out, opened the boot and started unloading food. Another time, a pickup truck came by and Red Shirts on the truck hurled big plastic bags full of styrofoam-packed food high into the barricade where they were grabbed by eager hands and distributed. Many motorists wound down windows as they passed and cheered the Red Shirts.

I made my way back to the other side of the street and hunkered down in the Au Bon Pain and wrote my first report while the yelling outside grew more and more hysterical. Then the cafe finally decided to close early, and I shifted to the business centre at the Dusit and wrote my second report. When I was done, around 8.30pm, I went back out and joined other journalists watching the drama unfold.

The mood among the pro-government crowd became more and more ragged, with a couple of passing red-shirted taxi drivers having their cabs bashed. But around 10pm, the mood appeared to settle as many people left. I was on the point of heading home when some rowdy men began to get out of hand, running out into the intersection threateningly.

I saw the precise moment when the riot started. At around 11pm, some of the pro-government demonstrators were running out into the intersection taunting the Reds, and then one finally let fly with a large stone. That of course was the signal for a barrage of stones and bottles from the pro-government mob.

Only about 20 or so were involved, but it was enough to create tremendous chaos. Glass shattered on the street and rocks cracked and bounced as they went for the Reds – who retaliated with rocks and slingshots of their own but held their line and did not come charging out.

Meanwhile cross-traffic was still flowing, crunching over the rocks and broken glass. I wonder if some of the cars were hit as they crossed between the battling sides.

The Reds vastly outnumbered the pro-government protestors, but held their ground. The pro-government men periodically surged out into the intersection to throw missiles at the barricades. Some hung back, crouching in the shrubbery on the verge, aiming carefully and letting loose with slingshots – deadly when fired with small ball bearings or marbles.

All the while, police deployed on the ground, and soldiers on the pedestrian overpass above, did absolutely nothing to stop or separate the two sides. In fact the police even moved one of their trucks out of the way of the rampaging pro-government men.

A Thai man dressed in a white shirt spoke to me as we took cover behind a wall, with rocks flying around us. "What do you think Thais should do?" he asked me. It was a difficult question. I thought for a moment and said "Sit down and talk about the issues".

He looked sad and then told me that "Thais only learn when many people are killed".

Seconds later, a large Thai man in ordinary clothing translated a sign lying on the sidewalk which proclaimed that Red Shirts were goons in the pay of ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra. Then he put his arm around me and led me away and whispered in my ear "I am Red Shirt".

He said he was a taxi drover, and the pro-government men were from the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), the formerly yellow-clad right-wing group that closed down three airports in 2008 to paralyse the pro-Thaksin government of the time, paving the way for its fall which eventually came through a court decision to disband it because one of its executives had cheated in the last election. That paved the way for the Democrat Party to take power.

It is obvious to independent observers that the so-called "no colour" or "multi-colour" crowds that have emerged lately, are largely the PAD in a different form. They have been urging the government to crack down on the Red Shirts of the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD), and have even threatened to do it themselves if the government and army did not.

They certainly tried at Sala Daeng, though not in force. But the Reds were fairly disciplined and thankfully the riot did not escalate into a full-blown fight. At least twice, the Red Shirts fired firecrackers at the pro-government men who ran helter skelter, but returned to pelt them with stones. The men were banging paving stones on the hard concrete to break them into smaller pieces. One young man ran past me with a sack full of empty bottles, heading for the fight.

At one point a foreigner who appeared to be a tourist, wearing black clothes but with a red armband, was roughed up by the pro-government men, but some among them got him away. That was at around 1145pm and seemed to trigger the police into action.

They formed a double line at the top of the road facing the pro-government crowd, which included some women who were hurling rocks and bottles as much as the men. The arrival of the police seemed to embolden them and they started screaming abuses at the Reds – insulting Thai terms like "hia" – monitor lizard – and "khwai" – buffalo, a common insult used by a certain section of the Bangkokian middle classes against rural people from the north-east, where most of the Reds are from.

The police then turned around and faced towards the Reds, which came as a bit of a surprise. But two big police trucks finally showed up then and parked right in front of the police lines, and then the violence seemed to peter out a bit.

The interesting part of the evening was that the police and soldiers did nothing to stop the pro-government crowd, which incidentally was also, like the Reds, in violation of the Emergency Decree which prohibits assembly of more than five people. Yet they were allowed to assemble and yell at the Reds in a gradual escalation all afternoon, which finally exploded at night with the police and soldiers simply looking on.

Sala Daeng was and could be the flashpoint, which will see Thais battling Thais in this divided country that appears to many, to be sliding into a civil war. The right-wingers say they are fighting for the nation and the King. The Red Shirts – from the same nation – say they are fighting for their democratic right to have an election and have the results accepted and respected. The right-wingers despise and denigrate them as ignorant rabble seduced by Thaksin's money.

Someone tweeted me in the middle of all this, to say that "This is straight out of the 1976 playbook. Get goons to do the dirty work and wash your hands of it".

The year 1976 was a dreadful one in which mobs egged on by right-wing rabble-rousers launched into a horrible massacre at Thammasat University, in which leftist students were hanged and beaten and shot to death.

Thais say their nation has never been so divided as it today. The rage on either side is palpable. Families and friends and couples have been torn by it. Red Shirts kick and stamp on pictures of Privy Council president general Prem Tinsulanonda, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva, and army chief general Anupong Paochinda, and scrawl obscene and insulting graffiti against them. Pro-government right-wing elements heckle and attack Red Shirts and kick and smash their cars and shout "Ai! Khwai!" as they pass.

A people versus people bloodbath may be part of the playbook, forcing the army to wade in. But times are different now from 1976, and there is no telling what the consequences may be.

April 10 was a signal of just how bad things can become. And they could get a lot worse unless there is some political compromise at the top. The window for such a compromise, however, is closing fast.

In today's The Nation, Supalak Ganjanakhundee wrote: "Thais appear to be keen on expanding the ongoing conflict instead of containing it, with many different colour-coded groups emerging to confront the Red-Shirt protesters. Such confrontation would only orchestrate violence, if not a civil war."

It is worth quoting Supalak further, because he explains the echo of 1976.

"On Tuesday" he wrote, "an unknown group of people put up stickers on Silom Road saying that the Red-Shirt group wanted a new Thailand with Thaksin as president. A move like this suggests that the right wing and elitist forces are employing old tactics to label the opponents as anti-monarchists."

''On October 6, 1976, student activists in Thammasat University were massacred just because they were accused of being anti-monarchists.

"The stickers on Silom Road prompted an immediate denial from Thaksin, with the Red-Shirt leaders declaring on Tuesday that it was a dirty political game. They know the power of anti-monarchy accusations.

"If Abhisit and his government are gentle and fair enough, they should be able to limit the conflict and stop a third hand from using this sensitive issue to make things worse.

"Calling the protesters terrorists and turning a normal political protest into a national security issue and a threat to the revered institution, is uncivilised and unfair. Besides, such tactics will only make the problem more complicated and difficult to resolve," concluded Supalak.

this is obviously written by someone who knows nothing of the Thai phsyc.....

[Maestro]

Thailand grenade attacks kill at least 3

At least three people were killed in a string of grenade attacks in Thailand's capital that wounded dozens of others.

Read more: edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/asiapcf/04/22/thailand.protests/index.html?section=cnn_latest

-- CNN 2010-04-22

[featography]

Of course it was the reds. They have threatened this. Red shirt apologists, you should be ashamed.

So, if you are so sure it was the Red Shirt....where is your proof?

dont ask. dont need proof when facts dont count. Here Heresay rules the forum

[Maestro]

Britons warned off travelling to Bangkok after blasts

Britons have been warned by the UK government that they should avoid all but "essential" travel to Bangkok.

The Foreign Office gave its travel advice relating to Thailand's capital because of the risk "that violence could break out without warning".

It follows a series of blasts near a massive encampment of anti-government protesters in Bangkok's business district.

Read more: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8638552.stm

-- BBC 2010-04-22

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

[Xangsamhua]

Flashpoint Silom April 22, 2010 Thursday, 08:22 AM Nirmal Ghosh witnesses a possible sign of things to come 1am, Thursday : I got to Sala Daeng yesterday (Wed) afternoon, and made my way to the Au Bon Pain cafe right next to the Dusit Thani hotel, at the corner of the intersection across from the Red Shirt barricades next to Lumpini Park.

A Thai man dressed in a white shirt spoke to me as we took cover behind a wall, with rocks flying around us. "What do you think Thais should do?" he asked me. It was a difficult question. I thought for a moment and said "Sit down and talk about the issues".

He looked sad and then told me that "Thais only learn when many people are killed".

Seconds later, a large Thai man in ordinary clothing translated a sign lying on the sidewalk which proclaimed that Red Shirts were goons in the pay of ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra. Then he put his arm around me and led me away and whispered in my ear "I am Red Shirt".

He said he was a taxi drover, and the pro-government men were from the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), the formerly yellow-clad right-wing group that closed down three airports in 2008 to paralyse the pro-Thaksin government of the time, paving the way for its fall which eventually came through a court decision to disband it because one of its executives had cheated in the last election. That paved the way for the Democrat Party to take power.

It is obvious to independent observers that the so-called "no colour" or "multi-colour" crowds that have emerged lately, are largely the PAD in a different form. They have been urging the government to crack down on the Red Shirts of the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD), and have even threatened to do it themselves if the government and army did not.

Nirmal Ghosh (Straits Times) just believes everything the Reds tell him. "Independent observers" indeed! He's a very unreliable reporter.

[Neurath]

Flashpoint Silom April 22, 2010 Thursday, 08:22 AM Nirmal Ghosh witnesses a possible sign of things to come 1am, Thursday : I got to Sala Daeng yesterday (Wed) afternoon, and made my way to the Au Bon Pain cafe right next to the Dusit Thani hotel, at the corner of the intersection across from the Red Shirt barricades next to Lumpini Park.

A Thai man dressed in a white shirt spoke to me as we took cover behind a wall, with rocks flying around us. "What do you think Thais should do?" he asked me. It was a difficult question. I thought for a moment and said "Sit down and talk about the issues".

He looked sad and then told me that "Thais only learn when many people are killed".

Seconds later, a large Thai man in ordinary clothing translated a sign lying on the sidewalk which proclaimed that Red Shirts were goons in the pay of ex-premier Thaksin Shinawatra. Then he put his arm around me and led me away and whispered in my ear "I am Red Shirt".

He said he was a taxi drover, and the pro-government men were from the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD), the formerly yellow-clad right-wing group that closed down three airports in 2008 to paralyse the pro-Thaksin government of the time, paving the way for its fall which eventually came through a court decision to disband it because one of its executives had cheated in the last election. That paved the way for the Democrat Party to take power.

It is obvious to independent observers that the so-called "no colour" or "multi-colour" crowds that have emerged lately, are largely the PAD in a different form. They have been urging the government to crack down on the Red Shirts of the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD), and have even threatened to do it themselves if the government and army did not.

Nirmal Ghosh (Straits Times) just believes everything the Reds tell him. "Independent observers" indeed! He's a very unreliable reporter.

There is quite a lot of editorial content in his piece and the color of the tint in the lens through which he views this conflict is quite clear to see.

[ppmacready]

...one pink shirt was seen beating up a red shirt at the SkyTrain station...

That's a good start.

Why are you pro-violence?

You think its worth trying to use common sense with Thais, Terrorists or Nazis?

[rondii]

Of course it was the reds. They have threatened this. Red shirt apologists, you should be ashamed.

So, if you are so sure it was the Red Shirt....where is your proof?

dont ask. dont need proof when facts dont count. Here Heresay rules the forum

The reds kill, maim, destroy cars, vandalize, loot, take bribes to vote, take bribes to protest...then they cry when someone fights back..they are not good people fighting for democracy..they are cowardly criminal thugs who should be stopped by any means necessary

[khaowong1]

Of course it was the reds. They have threatened this. Red shirt apologists, you should be ashamed.

Where is your proof that the red shirts are responsible? You're ASSUMING. Don't confuse people with lies before you have facts, please. Nobody knows who attacked who tonight. Nobody knows who launched the bombs.

CG, before you get all worked up, step back and think about this, this is a forum, we have no control or say so over the Thai government. You can say pretty much what ever you want on here, it will make no difference in what's happening out there on the streets. Chill man..

[4223rhodes]

Of course it was the reds. They have threatened this. Red shirt apologists, you should be ashamed.

So, if you are so sure it was the Red Shirt....where is your proof?

dont ask. dont need proof when facts dont count. Here Heresay rules the forum

The reds kill, maim, destroy cars, vandalize, loot, take bribes to vote, take bribes to protest...then they cry when someone fights back..they are not good people fighting for democracy..they are cowardly criminal thugs who should be stopped by any means necessary

Sounds like your drinkin' Abhisit's yellow kool-aid pretty heavy. Go easy on it...

[Hollywood3000]

Democracy has a price and true democracy needs to start now. Let it be known that a small group of blood shirts cannot hijack the whole country and if you try you will be hurt and you will fail. They are breaking many laws, the government should come down on them hard and yes there will be deaths....democracy has a price.

[cougar52]

Responding to Che; "That's a fact, read Thai newspapers and listen to Thai television. "

It seems like you are also trying lies and adding with hype.

In regards: What I read was that 1. Yes there was a smoke grenade launched. 2. The Col was then "painted with a laser" 3. A second grenade was launched that took out the Col.

So why don't you post FACTS if, you want to post facts there is a way to do it. It is called Proof.

So thank you, please do not post FACTS with out the substance PROOF.

[Mosha]

All we know is that the government has denied independent investigations into the April 10 clashes. And they will probably deny independent investigations into today's attacks as well. So make up your own conclusions, folks.

My conclusion is you are a red true believer and wouldn't care if the reds bombed 50 stations and there was hard core proof it it.

Google Che Guevara.

[Stekmer]

Arrived at my hotel adjacent Chong Nosi BTS station at 2100 hrs last night.

Tank and soldiers with guns on the corner with Silom, soldiers patrolling the smaller streets that run between Sathorn and Silom. This seemed quite strange until I got the news of the explosions at 2000 - 2045 hrs.

No BTS running - obviously enough.

Any news on BTS returning to usual schedules?

There are some skytrains moving in and out of Chong Nosi this morning but seem to be pausing longer than normal and not a lot of passenger activity.

[OzMick]

The only time people have died is when the PM has used force. So maybe that's why?

So maybe that's why? What is? Why they decided to launch a grenade attack, the same weapon used to kill the commander of the last clear-out operation? The govt threatens to use force, so it's alright for your red mates to sling a few at a train station. Is that what you are saying?

Someone just died. Who was using force?

[FreedomDude]

Dear Pro-Govt Supporters,

My ears would be more open to your complaints about the seizure of your great city by the Reds IF:

The Yellow leaders who took over government house for 2 months were brought to justice, OR

The coup leaders who decided to just rip up the Constitution without asking the people of Thailand were brought to justice, OR

The organizers of the occupations of Bangkok's airports 2 years ago were brought to justice.

In a normal society, I would wholeheartedly support the immediate prosecution of the Reds and their leaders.

In this society, my ears are closed to your complaints.

What goes around comes around. Treat others with such disdain and such little respect, and you shall receive the same in return.

Edited April 22, 2010 by FreedomDude

[jonnyscot]

If Abhisit and his government are gentle and fair enough, they should be able to limit the conflict and stop a third hand from using this sensitive issue to make things worse.

"Calling the protesters terrorists and turning a normal political protest into a national security issue and a threat to the revered institution, is uncivilised and unfair. Besides, such tactics will only make the problem more complicated and difficult to resolve," concluded Supalak.

If Abhisit and his governement are fair??????? what the <deleted>> do you think abhisit has been trying to do, he has offered the red leaders to return to the table,,,,,, but no no no, the Red Leadership are not interested, its their way or no way,,,,,, and gentle,,,, for pitty's sake, he has been much too gentle already, he is being so gentle that this may be what looks like being his weakness, as far as I can see the red leadership and the tactics that they have shown over the last few weeks, must be giving most people cause for concern should they ever be considered to be a prominent force in thai politics

[RussellHantz]

Of course it was the reds. They have threatened this. Red shirt apologists, you should be ashamed.

Proof please ? Or is this just more of your melodramatic nonsense ?

[siampolee]

If one analyses the rhetoric of the Red Shirt Brigade leadership Thaksin included with his homophobic streak re comments regarding certain people however those comments of course exclude his own family member and of course his exiled henchman you come to see the alignment twixt Che Guevara and the Red Shirt Brigade.

The real Guevara was a reckless bourgeois adrenaline-junkie seeking a place in history as a liberator of the oppressed. But this fanatic’s vehicle of “liberation” was Stalinism, named for Soviet dictator Josef Stalin, murderer of well over 20 million of his own people. As one of Castro’s top lieutenants, Che helped steer Cuba’s revolutionary regime in a radically repressive direction. Soon after overthrowing Batista, Guevara choreographed the executions of hundreds of Batista officials without any fair trials. He thought nothing of summarily executing even fellow guerrillas suspected of disloyalty and shot one himself with no due process.

Che was a purist political fanatic who saw everything in stark black and white. Therefore he vociferously opposed freedoms of religion, speech, press, assembly, protest, or any other rights not completely consistent with his North Korean-style communism. How many rock music-loving teens sporting Guevara t-shirts today know their hero supported Cuba’s 1960s’ repression of the genre? How many homosexual fans know he had gays jailed?

Indeed a fine mirror image of Thaksin, Jutaporn, Arisman, Veera and Weng

Edited April 22, 2010 by siampolee

[bobby906]

Dear Pro-Govt Supporters,

My ears would be more open to your complaints about the seizure of your great city by the Reds IF:

The Yellow leaders who took over government house for 2 months were brought to justice, OR

The coup leaders who decided to just rip up the Constitution without asking the people of Thailand were brought to justice, OR

The organizers of the occupations of Bangkok's airports 2 years ago were brought to justice.

In a normal society, I would wholeheartedly support the immediate prosecution of the Reds and their leaders.

In this society, my ears are closed to your complaints.

What goes around comes around. Treat others with such disdain and such little respect, and you shall receive the same in return.

Maybe you should look at the facts -red shirts agitated the first crackdown by firing live ammunition -what do you expect the Army to do?

They had every right to respond with lethal force. The red shirt leaders continue to incite hatred and violence and remember -this is a state of emergency -they have not complied with any government requests or tried to negotiate in a rational way.

Jatuporn has no right to his MP immunity and the other leaders need to be arrested also and put away for a long time.

[RussellHantz]

Dear Pro-Govt Supporters,

My ears would be more open to your complaints about the seizure of your great city by the Reds IF:

The Yellow leaders who took over government house for 2 months were brought to justice, OR

The coup leaders who decided to just rip up the Constitution without asking the people of Thailand were brought to justice, OR

The organizers of the occupations of Bangkok's airports 2 years ago were brought to justice.

In a normal society, I would wholeheartedly support the immediate prosecution of the Reds and their leaders.

In this society, my ears are closed to your complaints.

What goes around comes around. Treat others with such disdain and such little respect, and you shall receive the same in return.

Agree.

And the level of yellow hypocrisy on this forum is so mind boggling, its sad