Thai Protesters Brace For Crackdown As Compromise Rejected

[jdinasia]

IF, and it is a big IF, but IF the Reds do resort to guerilla warfare after a crackdown, are you all going to be happy seeing bombs go off in Siam Paragon, in Panthip Plaza, in Emporium, full of shoppers all cut to pieces by bombs.

It's not really a "big IF" is it, if it's clearly being considered...?

It's an "if", and the full sentence most likely goes "if you don't agree with our demands"

I don't need to tell you right now how I feel about you.

Always amazing when the reds try and make the violence the fault of anyone other than the reds ....

[melbpete]

The red shirts are not terrorists, they are peaceful protesters. Governments use the word terrorists as an excuse to kill innocent people. Its very irresponsible of some posters coming on here labeling these ordinary people as terrorists. I think posters on here would prefer Thailand to be ruled more like Burma.

Yes. Peaceful protestors always have sharpened stakes, petrol bombs, grenades and guns.

[LevelHead]

IF, and it is a big IF, but IF the Reds do resort to guerilla warfare after a crackdown, are you all going to be happy seeing bombs go off in Siam Paragon, in Panthip Plaza, in Emporium, full of shoppers all cut to pieces by bombs.

It's not really a "big IF" is it, if it's clearly being considered...?

It's an "if", and the full sentence most likely goes "if you don't agree with our demands"

I don't need to tell you right now how I feel about you.

Exactly, nobody condones violence. It is disgusting.

The answer here is NEGOTIATION.

But we have pig headed Abhisit "refusing" to negotiate.

His words.

Arrogant and pig headed and "bloody hands", would that be a fair description ?

A wounded and cornered animal will do anything, if Abhisit forces them into a corner wounded, then he must be aware of the risks.

Negotiate...... its the peaceful answer.

[kratiam]

Nattawut Saikua, a Red Shirt leader, said on the stage that the protesters who would come to join the rally in Bangkok and its supporters nationwide to take off their red shirts and become 'plainclothes warriors' to fight against the government.

So now they don't even have the balls to show themselves. I am truly beginning to think that the label of 'terrorist' is becoming a reality.

Cheers, Rick

"Nail on the head!"

[animatic]

It's looking like Kent State all over again.......1970 riot over a US planned Cambodia invasion when upset students looted, threw rocks and bottles, and otherwise taunted the police and military for a few days.

Result - 4 dead and one paralyzed for life as national guard fired rounds over a few seconds. The riot ended, but marred the country for quite some time.

If this event can be etched in the memory of nearly all Americans after 40 years, imagine what the latest incidents (and incidents yet to come) will do to the small country of Thailand.

This is a pretty stupid quote - there is a huge difference between bottles and rocks to M79 grenades, RPG's and AK47's

Exactly.

And at this point in USA life more people have died in restaurant shootings

School shootings, Church shootings, and general work related shootings 50 to 1

compared to that one riot put down on a collage campus.

Sure we remember it, but '...etched on the memories... '

it was never a Pearl Harbor or 9/11 just a horrible day.

And street rioting has seen many deaths and looter shootings.

The level of violence show coinected clearly with this Red Demonstration of street power,

is completely on another scale of severity to Kent state.

It already long passed Kent state, left whirling in the dust and weeds.

[321niti123]

And they seem to intend ALL of Thailand...

"We are ready to handle the government measures. No matter what shirt we wear, our hearts are red," said Jatuporn Prompan, warning that an offensive would trigger nationwide conflict.

"When the first blood is spilled here, the entire country will be the scene of bloodshed," he said.

It would seem they plan attacks nationwide.

Not could, but WOULD, trigger nationwide attacks.

And this coming from a PTP Minister of Parliament.

Who actually has a voting mandate to Parliament.

High treason comes to mind.

I thought jatuporn is red shirt leader, i dont think hes PTP (but im not sure-can some one confirm on this)

This is certainly the end and as yoda puts it "At an end your rule is... and not short enough it was." (that can be said for Thaksin, as Reds would say this to abhisit, and i would say this to the reds)

[DickFarang]

The Bangkok upper circles go on to ignore the lessons of history: The French Revolution, the Russian Revolution, the Vietnamese Disaster, ...

[Jockey]

"Why are the Reds destroying Thailand???? Thailand is more than just Bangkok. Since when can't people travel to their capitol to petition a complaint? That practice is centuries old.

Two years ago the Yellow Shirts did a pretty good job of shutting down Bangkok, also.

Heck, if I had a business in downtown BKK, I'd be peeved also, but obviously there's a (class) problem in the country since this divisiveness has been going on for ten years.

People in the provinces keeping electing officials and people in Bangkok keep throwing them out of office.

Taksin, ethics not withstanding, had done more for the rural people in 4 years than any other entity has done in sixty years - healthcare, roads, education, electricity, subsidizing loans so that almost every farmer owned a brand new pick-up, etc.

I've been coming to Thailand since 1974, and the changes between 2000 and 2005 were dramatic.

Of course there are claims the Red Shirts are paid to go to BKK and stand in the street. But it goes a little deeper. Rural people are sick and tired of being told to go back to their farms, till their fields, and keep their mouths shut.

You must remember that the people in the rural provinces were so alienated, that there were still strong communist movements throughout the north and northeast until the early 80's (most national parks are former communist strongholds).

With the possible exception of Abhisit, corruption is generally a part of every administration, every entitiy. Taksin was certainly no angel (national campaign against drugs) and the guy just doesn't get it that at this point he's old product. Taksin is a ralllying point for the Reds. If there are new elections, the Reds will win, the Yellows with find a way to dispose of the new administration. The circle continues, like groundhog day.

The elite in BKK can't continue to ignore the provinces (the ethnic Isaan speaking population is larger than the central Thailand.

Almost everyone is afraid to sit down and get to what many percieve to be the core of the problem, because they can be thrown in jail for discussing it.

But hey, what do I know.... jap.gif "

Excellent post. Good to see there are some decent Farangs on here who have common sense, a nice change from the "rabble rousers" who seem to have hate-filled hearts.

[LevelHead]

IF, and it is a big IF, but IF the Reds do resort to guerilla warfare after a crackdown, are you all going to be happy seeing bombs go off in Siam Paragon, in Panthip Plaza, in Emporium, full of shoppers all cut to pieces by bombs.

It's not really a "big IF" is it, if it's clearly being considered...?

It's an "if", and the full sentence most likely goes "if you don't agree with our demands"

I don't need to tell you right now how I feel about you.

Always amazing when the reds try and make the violence the fault of anyone other than the reds ....

The cycle of violence started in 2006 when people with big guns and tanks took over the country.

They might not have used them, but the threat of using them, and by showing them in public was an act of terror, a coup.

Who started the cycle, one which now comes full circle in 2010, four years later, but this time the other way around, its the people who are wanting their democracy back.

[elcent]

The word sedition comes to mind

you're right

Typically, sedition is considered a subversive act, and the overt acts that may be prosecutable under sedition laws vary from one legal code to another. Where the history of these legal codes has been traced, there is also a record of the change in the definition of the elements constituting sedition at certain points in history. This overview has served to develop a sociological definition of sedition as well, within the study of state persecution.

The difference between sedition and treason consists primarily in the subjective ultimate object of the violation to the public peace. Sedition does not consist of levying war against a government nor of adhering to its enemies, giving enemies aid, and giving enemies comfort. Nor does it consist, in most representative democracies, of peaceful protest against a government, nor of attempting to change the government by democratic means (such as direct democracy or constitutional convention).

Sedition is the stirring up of rebellion against the government in power. Treason is the violation of allegiance to one's sovereign or state, giving aid to enemies, or levying war against one's state. Sedition is encouraging one's fellow citizens to rebel against their state, whereas treason is actually betraying one's country by aiding and abetting another state. Sedition laws somewhat equate to terrorism and public order laws.

[traderjm]

"Simply" having a thai wife and children born in Thailand that carry a thai passport makes it NOT my problem? Interesting point of view. I have not taken the step to get my RP as my wife and I have decided to leave Thailand we do not want to raise our children here anymore. I have an office within a five minute walk of the station that was bombed (by whomever) on another night that could have been me killed instead of that poor woman.. leaving a widow and fatherless kids behind seems to me like it does make it my problem..

I can promise you if YOU had a Thai wife and children born here you would not be staying out of it, it effects your family, your employees your children and their future... I don't support the REDS or the Yellows I just want them to all stop acting like spoiled little babies and for once do what is best for the greater good of the WHOLE country not their own little slice of the pie.

As I said we are making plans to leave now, not a step we wanted to take but MY WIFE said she can't take it anymore to see her people act this way towards each other and does not want our sons growing up in this society.. that makes it my problem and makes me very sad as well.

OK, fair enough argument. It is a problem for you. That really wasn't what I was trying to suggest. I was going for something more about having the "right" to do something about politics in a country not your own. I didn't make my point very well apparently as I can't defend it decently in hind-sight.

I would say though, that if I had a Thai wife and children I wouldn't be here. I totally agree with your wife on this one.

I don't support the REDS or the Yellows I just want them to all stop acting like spoiled little babies and for once do what is best for the greater good of the WHOLE country not their own little slice of the pie.

I agree 100% with that statement. 100%.

thanks, I appreciate the original comment more clearly now and perhaps I jumped on you a little hard... I get your point. I was just getting tired of all these two week millionaires telling people to leave it to the Thai's such a silly and poorly thought out point.

My wife is basking in the support from the TV regulars hahaha...

[topsecret]

A disappointing but unsurprising response from the biggest stubborn mule PM the world has ever seen.

It is kind of hard to negotiate with terrorists. Not a good precedent really.

The PM doesn't need to negotiate, he needs to step down. If he can't clear the protesters he simply cannot do nothing!

[nongbee59]

Guerrilla warfare? Threatening to loot CentralWorld?

"When the first blood is spilled here, the entire country will be the scene of bloodshed"

"We are ready to handle the government measures. No matter what shirt we wear, our hearts are red"

Whichever way you see it, this is just awful. If there are true bad intentions from either side then this is it. These idiots seemed intent on causing havoc from day one and recently the only thing they can say is "it wasn't us" (so what was that I saw on youtube then? ) or "civil war". They are a disgrace and I am angry and upset that they are trying to cheat the world into thinking they are the ones calling for democracy.

There are millions of people in Thailand trying to work hard and make a better life for themselves and these idiots want to stage a smash and grab and justify it by saying they are against the elite!!!!! They don't get any more elite than Thaskin jetting around the world in his Lear Jet, meeting his military junta friends in Fiji, and this is the evil personality cult they have bought into. The idea that this is not about Thaksin and about a fairer Thailand is preposterous. Loom at how they treat people who don't agree with them....they bomb them, or kidnap them, or verbally abuse them, or physically assault them. They are already breeding an atmosphere of hate and intolerance, think about what that will be like if they control the whole country and not just Ratchaprasong.

A country run by these violent thugs, who have no tolerance for other people's views and solve all their problems through intimidation, threats and violence is not going to be a fairer Thailand. It will be a Thailand where you will be free to do anything the redshirts say you can do. I suspect elections under redshirt rule will have candidates from only parties that agree with the redshirts and the result will be a 104% vote for Thaksin - something like the level of love the Iraqis used to show for Saddam Hussein.

I take the redshirt's proclaimation of "the whole country will be a scene of bloodshed" to be a direct declaration of war against all decent people, and I also take it that means me. Don't expect me not to shoot at redshirt heads if they do what they say.

its only the war between the elites , taking the people as hostage. sad

they push thais to go for one side or a another

[BNZ]

A disappointing but unsurprising response from the biggest stubborn mule PM the world has ever seen.

Nope, that would be the other guy, Thaksin.

does not matter whoever it is now...

rejection is a hard pill to swallow....

anyone who has been to a bar beer knows that.

what's next?

send in the suicide squad?

oh i do hope its the judean people front crack suicide squad

It's the People's Judean Front

___________

He's not the messiah.  He's a very naughty boy !

[jope]

Valid?..what makes that mandate valid? Abhisit's government is illegitimate because it came to power under military pressure through a parliamentary vote after disputed court rulings ousted two elected pro-Thaksin governments. At the very least, this is undemocratic and this is indeed unacceptable by not just one or two natives of Thailand, but thousands.

Couldn't agree more!!! This is purely about democracy and democratic rights. I am always surprised how much support and 'understanding' dictators (I still dare to call them so) have.

Yea and the tooth fairy will leave a coin for you tonight - unbelievable how blue eyed the red shirt supporters are or its simple propaganda.

Than its the poor who want a better life... now its democracy... make up your bleeding minds what you want to call Taksins attempt at a coup

Just two questions: why are your democratic rights sacred while the reds are supposed to go home and eat their sticky rice?

Why is the situation now a bad coup attempt while the coups before were a great thing?

Edited April 24, 2010 by jope

[mitrapaap]

New story on the Nation says that "The Civil Court said Saturday the Centre for the Resolution of Emergency Situations can disperse anti-government protesters now occupying Bangkok's prime business district "if necessary","

What's up with these courts working on a Saturday night?

New story? I thgought that was the title of this entire thread...???

[Insight]

IF, and it is a big IF, but IF the Reds do resort to guerilla warfare after a crackdown, are you all going to be happy seeing bombs go off in Siam Paragon, in Panthip Plaza, in Emporium, full of shoppers all cut to pieces by bombs.

It's not really a "big IF" is it, if it's clearly being considered...?

It's an "if", and the full sentence most likely goes "if you don't agree with our demands"

I don't need to tell you right now how I feel about you.

Exactly, nobody condones violence. It is disgusting.

The answer here is NEGOTIATION.

But we have pig headed Abhisit "refusing" to negotiate.

His words.

Arrogant and pig headed and "bloody hands", would that be a fair description ?

A wounded and cornered animal will do anything, if Abhisit forces them into a corner wounded, then he must be aware of the risks.

Negotiate...... its the peaceful answer.

Not much of a negotiation if you're saying "dissolve the house in 30 days, then we'll talk, or else" ?

Look forward to meeting you in some mall somewhere sometime, but give me some time to pull the bits of shrapnel out of my face first.

[dobadoy]

IF, and it is a big IF, but IF the Reds do resort to guerilla warfare after a crackdown, are you all going to be happy seeing bombs go off in Siam Paragon, in Panthip Plaza, in Emporium, full of shoppers all cut to pieces by bombs.

It's not really a "big IF" is it, if it's clearly being considered...?

It's an "if", and the full sentence most likely goes "if you don't agree with our demands"

I don't need to tell you right now how I feel about you.

Always amazing when the reds try and make the violence the fault of anyone other than the reds ....

The cycle of violence started in 2006 when people with big guns and tanks took over the country.

They might not have used them, but the threat of using them, and by showing them in public was an act of terror, a coup.

Who started the cycle, one which now comes full circle in 2010, four years later, but this time the other way around, its the people who are wanting their democracy back.

Yes, I remember waking up on that september morning with my neighbour knocking on my door saying 'there's been a coup!'

We all went out onto the streets and noticed the smiling solidres, the flowers on the tanks, the monks looking after the soliders truck while they went off to get lunch...we also remember the sudden freedom of the press to criticisise anybody and everyboyd as is the norm in a democratic society, which they did, including the new government and General Sarayud. The difference was they now could criticise the ruling power without fear of intimidation, law suits, takeovers ( I see Thaksin is STILL playing this card; despite being a wanted felon on the run he is suing for people for libel in the Thai courts - absolutely i.n.c.r.e.d.i.b.l.e!!!)

Edited April 24, 2010 by dobadoy

[nickupton]

I place Thaksin in the same bag as Pinochet, Mugabe, Marcos, Amin and so on. If Thaksin had remained in power I have no doubt that we would be comparing him to Pol Pot, Hitler etc

I agree. I think that with the current outfit of the redshirt militia, Pol Pot is an obvious parallel and is exactly why I choose to side against the reds. The redshirts saying that they only want to peacefully bring about democracy is like Osama Bin Laden saying he only wants teach the world to sing.

[gemini81]

IF, and it is a big IF, but IF the Reds do resort to guerilla warfare after a crackdown, are you all going to be happy seeing bombs go off in Siam Paragon, in Panthip Plaza, in Emporium, full of shoppers all cut to pieces by bombs.

It's not really a "big IF" is it, if it's clearly being considered...?

It's an "if", and the full sentence most likely goes "if you don't agree with our demands"

I don't need to tell you right now how I feel about you.

Exactly, nobody condones violence. It is disgusting.

The answer here is NEGOTIATION.

But we have pig headed Abhisit "refusing" to negotiate.

His words.

Arrogant and pig headed and "bloody hands", would that be a fair description ?

A wounded and cornered animal will do anything, if Abhisit forces them into a corner wounded, then he must be aware of the risks.

Negotiate...... its the peaceful answer.

he tried..in vein, where were you? Who were the stubborn mules? Bloody hands? Maybe only from AIDS blood drenched on his gate!

[ThailandLovr]

The red shirts are not terrorists, they are peaceful protesters. Governments use the word terrorists as an excuse to kill innocent people. Its very irresponsible of some posters coming on here labeling these ordinary people as terrorists. I think posters on here would prefer Thailand to be ruled more like Burma.

Hmmm

1. Kidnapping of CAT CEO

2. Kidnapping of high ranked police officer

3. Kidnapping or army train with men and weapons

4. Hostile take over of the city.

5. Violent threats to storm shopping malls

6. Grenades causing death

7. Weapons stock piling

8. Destruction of public property

9. Threats of violence and more bombs and grenades.

You are right, this is not terrorism this is would be what? patriotism!

10. Breached the Parliament building, causing MPs to be airlifted out.

11. Incitement to Riot

Edited April 24, 2010 by ThailandLovr

[ETatBKK]

whatever RED wins or govt wins, Thai people ( and economy ) loss :-(

whatever RED wins or military wins, Abhisit losses ( who takes final responsibility :-)

bloody dispersal is not a short term solution !

house dissolution is not a true answer !

it is a format of civil conflict, and have to resolve it in a Thai way!

KEEP PEACE !

[BKjohn]

I place Thaksin in the same bag as Pinochet, Mugabe, Marcos, Amin and so on. If Thaksin had remained in power I have no doubt that we would be comparing him to Pol Pot, Hitler etc

I agree. I think that with the current outfit of the redshirt militia, Pol Pot is an obvious parallel and is exactly why I choose to side against the reds. The redshirts saying that they only want to peacefully bring about democracy is like Osama Bin Laden saying he only wants teach the world to sing.

yep /// and remember the Khmer Rouge used to call their people "little brother or sister" before they took them out to the field and shot them

[Foggy Bottom]

A disappointing but unsurprising response from the biggest stubborn mule PM the world has ever seen.

I thought that accolade went to a choice from either of two of the UK's Prime Ministers - Churchill and Thatcher.

[dobadoy]

I place Thaksin in the same bag as Pinochet, Mugabe, Marcos, Amin and so on. If Thaksin had remained in power I have no doubt that we would be comparing him to Pol Pot, Hitler etc

I agree. I think that with the current outfit of the redshirt militia, Pol Pot is an obvious parallel and is exactly why I choose to side against the reds. The redshirts saying that they only want to peacefully bring about democracy is like Osama Bin Laden saying he only wants teach the world to sing.

BRILLIANT!!

[SanSaiExPat]

So they are dropping the red shirts. We all know why, yes? So when the reds without red attack the Thai soldiers and the general public with lethal weapons, and they are filmed doing so, they can more conveniently deny responsibility.

Precisely. This is a very disturbing development.

Guerrilla warfare? Threatening to loot CentralWorld?

"When the first blood is spilled here, the entire country will be the scene of bloodshed"

"We are ready to handle the government measures. No matter what shirt we wear, our hearts are red"

These are terrorist threats being made by the red shirt leaders. Some people might object to the word terrorist, but I don't know what else to call it. Insurrection perhaps? Any other suggestions?

At the risk of sounding obvious I would suggest "Freedom Fighters, or Patroits"

[Kilgore Trout]

If I was a Redshirt and I read some of the hate posts by certain individuals here, I'd think very lowly of Farangs in Thailand.

And indeed, the majority of Thais that I know would be shocked at the blind support of many posters on this forum for the intimidation and violence that has been meeted out by the reds over the last month and more. Many Thais believe Westerners come from civilised countries where people don't

- lay siege to the heart of the capital

- fire grenades at commuters

- bomb banks in the middle of the night

- lay explosive charges under electricity pylons

- pour their own blood on the private residences of politicians that they disagree with

- kidnap EC officials

- stab soldiers with bamboo poles in order to break into an installation guarded by the security forces

and for those reasons would be shocked and dismayed to see that there are Westerners on this forum that think such uncivilised behaviour is worthe negotiating with in poor old little Thailand but they would never tolerate in their own obviously more-valued nations.

Well let me ask you this; I'm not sure what country you are from but lets use the UK as an example. What would the British do if say, during the Iraq war Tony Blair (democratically elected) was ousted in a coup while he was in America and the conservatives put in their own guy backed by the military? Then another election was held and Gordon Brown was elected. The conservatives take over Heathrow and shut it down and the army does nothing, then finds a loophole and puts their own undemocratically elected guy in?

I would appreciate if you would really consider this, as ridiculous as it sounds, and think about how the British people would react. Are you telling me they wouldn't be rioting in the street? In my opinion if this happened in one of your so called "civilised" countries" the equivilent to the red shirts would be exponentially more violent. Please take this into consideration, there is more at stake here than your expat conveniences and easy life in Thailand. If you have been there long enough you can see how the poor are treated, and as much as a bugger Takki Shinegra is, enough is enough!

[traderjm]

So they are dropping the red shirts. We all know why, yes? So when the reds without red attack the Thai soldiers and the general public with lethal weapons, and they are filmed doing so, they can more conveniently deny responsibility.

Precisely. This is a very disturbing development.

Guerrilla warfare? Threatening to loot CentralWorld?

"When the first blood is spilled here, the entire country will be the scene of bloodshed"

"We are ready to handle the government measures. No matter what shirt we wear, our hearts are red"

These are terrorist threats being made by the red shirt leaders. Some people might object to the word terrorist, but I don't know what else to call it. Insurrection perhaps? Any other suggestions?

At the risk of sounding obvious I would suggest "Freedom Fighters, or Patroits"

So you're going with an Ironic approach?

[BKjohn]

Even at this late hour why cannot the Red Shirts understand that Abhisit was installed by His Majesty who would have been advised by Constitutional Experts as to the Government's legitimacy? That accepted then the Government has every right to complete it's term in office. Do the Red Shirts want to go against this?

Thai Rak Thai's leader Thaksin Shinawatra was quite happy with the Justice System while He held power and only dissaproved when the system no longer worked to his benefit.

My friend,the reds are Thaksins terrorists and as is obvious want to execute a coup to bring their master back and what he thinks about the monarchy everybody knows - he wants to regain his Thailand PLC whith him as the CEO and majority share holder .... hmm may be the maid will get some too as she had billions of shinawatra shares already

[Totsagan]

But heres the bombshell i want to announce to the world people, which hardly anyone knows about...

Guess whos behind Thaksin?? Whos Mignon is he? whos puppet is he really? ready for this?

THE US's (International banksters) FEDERAL RESERVE BOARD! AKA PUPPET MASTERS.

Thanks for the explanation. This simplifies everything. No need for further discussion!!!! Alas, the Federal Reserve Board and the USA....

Who new it was so simple?