Thai Forces Fire Warning Shots In Standoff With Red Shirts

[FatherF]

I think that using force by Abhisit is absolutely the wrong thing to do.

It may disperse the crowd but it will NOT kill off the movement, peopel will still bear grudges and hold grievances and the movement will go underground.

Underground movements tend to resort to violent tactics....we see this already in the southern provinces here in Thailand...and we have seen it before in Northern Ireland, the Basque country, Palestine etc

The only hope for a peaceful outcome is negotiation

Completely agree, unfortunately, the reds cannot/will not negotiate, it would seem that they are only capable of making demands!

FF

[Neurath]

So lets see, the GOVERNMENT send military with LIVE AMMUNTION against mostly unarmed protesters, and by unarmed its completly unarmed compared to what european riot police face on regular basis, a soldier is shot by his own, and well, thats supposed to be the protesters fault? Sorry, if the government actually followed "international practice", and by that not chinese or iranian standards but european standards, there would be no LIVE AMMUNITION among the military in the first place and as a result you could avoid one dead soldier and at least half the injured civilians. Is that really so hard to understand?

This government is running into their own double standards compared to their criticizing the 2008 crackdown.

Did you actually see what happened on the 10th of this month? You think they should be unarmed???

[animatic]

that is easy just hold an free and fair election JOB DONE

Not remotely possible in a country where village headmen in numerous rural regions will happily deliver 100 votes in exchange for 5000Bt and a handful of Viagra....

You know, it doesn't surprise me very much when I hear Thai people incorrectly describe democracy and the institutions that support it. I am always shocked however by the ignorance of foreigners who come from countries with a long history of democratic government. They seem to think counting votes (however gathered) is the single fundamental aspect of a democratic society.

I concur.

[MisterBeetle]

No matter who killed the solider in the end any violence from here on out in my opinion is RED. The government has bent over backwards to avoid conflict.

If the red shirts keep trying to block roads and reek havoc on citizens, they have to know the potential for violence, and cannot act innocent.

They could easily go home and start to prepare for elections in less than a year.

If the government remains passive for too long, innocent citizens become at risk.

Well said jingthing!

IMHO:

People have to remember none of this would ever have happened if the red shirts started the blockades in the first place ( which is an illegal act in its own right).

They have no right to take the law into their own hands!

I have heard too many stories about terrorized drivers being stopped by red shirt thugs driving to work.

When will this all end?

[Sisaketmike]

The more of this - the better for the country.

Hey dude. Can't imagine guys holding M 16's and licking asses. Doctors have to swear that they help people, even before they become Chang Moo. Cops just drink Naam Plaoo. Army guys like Lao Kao a lot.

If cops and Army don't fit, forget the rest. The Army has got more weapons from America. A simple Clock doesn't look well enough when you look into a M16's ass.........

Edited April 28, 2010 by Sisaketmike

[animatic]

Trying to come up with lame excuse to blame the protest. Comparing to peaceful mobs in other countries is just stupid.

Looking back at each of every of your country. What would your leader do when there are sooo many people go against Gov.

None of your leader will never ever refuse a fair election. Abhisit's Gov lacks of legitimacy is the root problem.

Using force to suppress Reds violently is apparently what dictators do.

Lots of farangs here do support this idea not because any democratic shit.

Because all they want is a peace atmoshere for stock market. .. for their own sake of investment .. not for Thais.

No that is NOT correct,

you are making an assumption that suits to your bias,

but it doesn't match realities.

[Sisaketmike]

I think you have got it wrong, he was facing a building (or turning slowly) when he was shot at close range...it couldn't have been the military as they were at least 200yards away...he fell towards the military..must have been a boomerang bullet?

I thought that rubber bullets were fired from M79 grenade launchers, you know, 40mm diameter and about 300mm long, they're bounced along the road so that they hit the protesters in the legs???

How do you know he was shot at close range? Why do you think the direction he fell indicates the direction he was shot from?

Hey you should start to learn easy things like being alive. You know, 40mm diameter? You know 300mm long? What the heck's wrong with your millimeters????

[hextac]

Trying to come up with lame excuse to blame the protest. Comparing to peaceful mobs in other countries is just stupid.

Looking back at each of every of your country. What would your leader do when there are sooo many people go against Gov.

None of your leader will never ever refuse a fair election. Abhisit's Gov lacks of legitimacy is the root problem.

Using force to suppress Reds violently is apparently what dictators do.

Lots of farangs here do support this idea not because any democratic shit.

Because all they want is a peace atmoshere for stock market. .. for their own sake of investment .. not for Thais.

No that is NOT correct,

you are making an assumption that suits to your bias,

but it doesn't match realities.

... and of course you've never done that?

[featography]

Peaceful, me thinks not. The red snipers are good at answering warning shots with " Proper shots to the head. The reds are armed to the teeth and are just itching to start the war. They " stole tons of weapons from the army remember?

Oh how easy it is to start, but it will be impossible to stop.

What a shambles now ?

1 troop, 10 protesters injured in Don Muang clash

One troop with severe head injury and 10 protesters were admitted to the Bhumibhol following the clash between anti-riot troops and red-shirt protesters near the Air Force headquarters.

The protesters were injured by rubber bullets.

The troop appeared to have been shot at his head.

-- The Nation 2010-04-28

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

If this is confirmed, it will now show how peaceful the red shirts are, and will show how unarmed they really are !!

If the reds are so itching to start a war, WHY havent they done it yet? Too busy enjoying the weather, basking in the sunshine? Too much pleasure in going deaf from their loud speakers?? Don't want a good thing to end so soon?

[Anyse]

that is easy just hold an free and fair election JOB DONE

Not remotely possible in a country where village headmen in numerous rural regions will happily deliver 100 votes in exchange for 5000Bt and a handful of Viagra....

You know, it doesn't surprise me very much when I hear Thai people incorrectly describe democracy and the institutions that support it. I am always shocked however by the ignorance of foreigners who come from countries with a long history of democratic government. They seem to think counting votes (however gathered) is the single fundamental aspect of a democratic society.

I really don't know of any government that actually admitted that it was a "dictatiorship." Even the Soviet Union, in its constitution, descrbed it as a "democracy." All in all, by definition, it was, It was just not the "right" democracy in the eyes of those who opposed its world power and overall "threat" to peace that never happened at all. Read ANY constitution and you will not see that it denies a "democratic" spirit.

I agree that, maybe, there are people who feel that their own interests in Thailand, as farangs, may be somehow in jeopardy as any possible xenophobic people's group (to them) could alter their future here. However, Thailand has a much longer history than the US or Australia or, for that matter, Russia, Germany (only newly recomposed) and so on! Thailand's people are its strength as well as its future. People should trust in them as they have done fairly well (better than the US with its total gunboat diplomacy and internation relations stance) over the entire history of Thailand. I really feel that the farangs should relax and stay out of this entire thing. I will not say who is right or who is wrong, remember that it is the victors who write history! So, no matter what, it will all be so much ado about nothing in the sheer scope of things. Relax. Get your groceries, teach what you teach or do as you do. No one is stopping you, unless you live in the "backpack" area of Bangkok! Otherwise, what purpose do your opinions serve? Why not support the King? He is a better arbitor and far more respected than any of these political leaders. Also, I feel that he will be wise for he has the people's hearts and wishes alway at hand and has always acted with such care and concern for all. Now, he stays out. He may want this thing to reach a certain point before he really steps in to tell his children to settle down, behave and to treat one another well. (My opinion, of course.)

Lighten up. Stay out of the affairs of state for they have nothing to do with the farang. This is the Thai's nation, not yours. You seem to want to make things worse with your opinions and snide comments about the right and the wrong of either side. Let them settle this without your addition of negativity, fear and opinions that mean nothing, and should mean nothing, in the light of this controversy.

I trust the Thai people to do what they need to do and to do it for the best for all. I am sticking by this.

Take care and, of course, peace to all of you.

[Sisaketmike]

I think that using force by Abhisit is absolutely the wrong thing to do.

It may disperse the crowd but it will NOT kill off the movement, peopel will still bear grudges and hold grievances and the movement will go underground.

Underground movements tend to resort to violent tactics....we see this already in the southern provinces here in Thailand...and we have seen it before in Northern Ireland, the Basque country, Palestine etc

The only hope for a peaceful outcome is negotiation

I think that using force by Abhisit is absolutely the wrong thing to do.

It may disperse the crowd but it will NOT kill off the movement, people will still bear grudges and hold grievances and the movement will go underground.

Underground movements tend to resort to violent tactics....we see this already in the southern provinces here in Thailand...and we have seen it before in Northern Ireland, the Basque country, Palestine etc

The only hope for a peaceful outcome is negotiation??????????????????????????????????????????????????????

Who gives a flying Monthy Phyton Circus what you're thinking? Guess you're lost in space. Why don't you offer your experience to Khun Thaksin? Allah Akbaar.

Edited April 28, 2010 by Sisaketmike

[humfurry]

The sight of the purportedly arrested red shirt leader having a happy meal @ MickyDs,

shows the credibility of the Thai security forces.

See page 4 post 80 of today's [Wednesday 28/04] Sitrep, on this site.

Consistently, throughout this recent crisis the Red Shirt leadership has been leagues ahead of those in Brown or Green.

The Reds have shown a determination, resolve & leadership that has run rings around the government.

Evicting the Reds from the streets with a well-trained loyal & determined military would be difficult enough,

whilst keeping casualties & damage to property to a minimum.

I don't think these guys have either the heart or the capability to do it without it becoming an almighty clusterf*ck.

Rouge Out

First and only warning: We will not respond to trolls.

[retarius]

I think that using force by Abhisit is absolutely the wrong thing to do.

It may disperse the crowd but it will NOT kill off the movement, peopel will still bear grudges and hold grievances and the movement will go underground.

Underground movements tend to resort to violent tactics....we see this already in the southern provinces here in Thailand...and we have seen it before in Northern Ireland, the Basque country, Palestine etc

The only hope for a peaceful outcome is negotiation

Completely agree, unfortunately, the reds cannot/will not negotiate, it would seem that they are only capable of making demands!

FF

Don't be silly, Abhisit refused to talk last time when the reds softened their demands....

[landofthefree]

According to news reports, the army are stepping up presence around Rajprasong, possibly for a crackdown tonight. In my opinion, pushing the protesters out of Rajprasong could back-fire. Right now they're somewhat peacefully 'stuck' there, but pushing them out of Rajprasong will make them spread all over the city.

If the army go in there will be carnage , it will be the end of Abhisit and probably the start of a civil war. Lets all pray that they don't do it.

[offissa]

I think you have got it wrong, he was facing a building (or turning slowly) when he was shot at close range...it couldn't have been the military as they were at least 200yards away...he fell towards the military..must have been a boomerang bullet?

I thought that rubber bullets were fired from M79 grenade launchers, you know, 40mm diameter and about 300mm long, they're bounced along the road so that they hit the protesters in the legs???

How do you know he was shot at close range? Why do you think the direction he fell indicates the direction he was shot from?

Hey you should start to learn easy things like being alive. You know, 40mm diameter? You know 300mm long? What the heck's wrong with your millimeters????

You've lost me I'm afraid, how about a plain answer? I'll make it easy—just answer the second question. Since a bullet passing through your head imparts relatively little kinetic energy, it's unlikely to effect the direction you fall.

Your go.

[animatic]

I think that using force by Abhisit is absolutely the wrong thing to do.

It may disperse the crowd but it will NOT kill off the movement, peopel will still bear grudges and hold grievances and the movement will go underground.

Underground movements tend to resort to violent tactics....we see this already in the southern provinces here in Thailand...and we have seen it before in Northern Ireland, the Basque country, Palestine etc

The only hope for a peaceful outcome is negotiation

Completely agree, unfortunately, the reds cannot/will not negotiate, it would seem that they are only capable of making demands!

FF

There's the rub.

How to negotiate when the other side doesn't negociate.

And continuously raises even more violent disruptive tactics

in response to not getting their way.

2 meetings for negotiations, they don't get their way ; Take over Rachadprasong

another discussion of terms, not get their way take over streets and army barracks

and become a country wide false policing force for their point of view.

This is not negotiations, this is closer to:

Kidnapping someone, making demands,

and cutting off body parts of a hostage periodically

until demands are met.

[humfurry]

I think that using force by Abhisit is absolutely the wrong thing to do.

It may disperse the crowd but it will NOT kill off the movement, peopel will still bear grudges and hold grievances and the movement will go underground.

Underground movements tend to resort to violent tactics....we see this already in the southern provinces here in Thailand...and we have seen it before in Northern Ireland, the Basque country, Palestine etc

The only hope for a peaceful outcome is negotiation

Completely agree, unfortunately, the reds cannot/will not negotiate, it would seem that they are only capable of making demands!

FF

Don't be silly, Abhisit refused to talk last time when the reds softened their demands....

First and only warning: We will not respond to trolls.

[Neurath]

that is easy just hold an free and fair election JOB DONE

Not remotely possible in a country where village headmen in numerous rural regions will happily deliver 100 votes in exchange for 5000Bt and a handful of Viagra....

You know, it doesn't surprise me very much when I hear Thai people incorrectly describe democracy and the institutions that support it. I am always shocked however by the ignorance of foreigners who come from countries with a long history of democratic government. They seem to think counting votes (however gathered) is the single fundamental aspect of a democratic society.

I concur.

I would call it a necessary but not sufficient condition

[ozzieman05]

I wonder if it's time to re-evaluate the dangers of rubber bullets. If my count is right, 26 people have now died and over 800 have been injured by rubber bullets. Maybe live ammunition should be used instead...maybe it's less dangerous.

Rubber Bullets are supposed to be aimed at the body ONLY however if aimed at the head it almost certain its a kill shot

If they are aiming at peoples heads it will be another positive case for the reds to accuse the goverment of murder as it is well known rubber bullets to the head KILL

You seem to think that is positive? I'm sure if someone threw a brick at someone elses head they could kill them too.. or an ashtray, beer bottle.. actually any solid object could be considered dangerous. But that is beside the point isn't it?

Red shirts are peaceful protestors and would never harm another Thai right??...

They would never deliberately block an officer of the law or a soldier from carrying out their duty right?

They would never criticize the royal family or jeopardize the economy right?

I'm sick of hearing all these red shirt sympathizes and their attempts to make every move by the government to try and restore law and order in the Capital, seem like some ruthless "Murder".

That is why this is my second post on any red shirt related forum. I'm just tired of the whole thing and hope it comes to a peaceful resolution.

Peace...

There are many peaceful Red Shirts

but you will not find them looking for a fight on Bangkok roads, these are thugs

The peaceful ones sit at the protest sites and hold a sign

Then again there are many peaceful protestors fighting Police

They just want a piece of any one they can smash with any weapon they can get

[retarius]

I think that using force by Abhisit is absolutely the wrong thing to do.

It may disperse the crowd but it will NOT kill off the movement, peopel will still bear grudges and hold grievances and the movement will go underground.

Underground movements tend to resort to violent tactics....we see this already in the southern provinces here in Thailand...and we have seen it before in Northern Ireland, the Basque country, Palestine etc

The only hope for a peaceful outcome is negotiation

I think that using force by Abhisit is absolutely the wrong thing to do.

It may disperse the crowd but it will NOT kill off the movement, people will still bear grudges and hold grievances and the movement will go underground.

Underground movements tend to resort to violent tactics....we see this already in the southern provinces here in Thailand...and we have seen it before in Northern Ireland, the Basque country, Palestine etc

The only hope for a peaceful outcome is negotiation

Who gives a flying Monthy Phyton Circus what you're thinking?

Well, aren't you just the king of wit and repartee? I don't have a lot of time for comments like yours either.

[jcbangkok]

THE NATION: Tension has cooled off btw troops and reds. We don't xpect more excitement tonite

Surely this must mean tonight is the night.

[Jingthing]

According to news reports, the army are stepping up presence around Rajprasong, possibly for a crackdown tonight. In my opinion, pushing the protesters out of Rajprasong could back-fire. Right now they're somewhat peacefully 'stuck' there, but pushing them out of Rajprasong will make them spread all over the city.

If the army go in there will be carnage , it will be the end of Abhisit and probably the start of a civil war. Lets all pray that they don't do it.

If he caves to the red terror, there will probably be civil war as well. Remember the MAJORITY of Thais (yellow plus all non-reds) are not in favor of a red government, especially now, that they have become a terrorist organization.

Edited April 28, 2010 by Jingthing

[brianbiegler]

You're an idiot. This is hardly "democracy in motion". This is a mob of pissed off people overthrowing a government. That's not democracy. You know, at first I felt somewhat supportive of the red-shirts, but not anymore. Due to their actions, do you seriously believe these are people who are going to be content with nothing more than free & fair elections? I very highly doubt that, and their actions have very much proven otherwise.

I think this is actually starting to get pretty serious though. You have to remember, it was only a simple 35 years ago that Pol Pot was in charge of Cambodia, and killing millions of his fellow country men. Up to this date, the red shirts have given pretty strong indications that they're capable of doing the same type of thing. Some of them seem to have become quite demented, and at the point where they despise anyone who has more money than them.

No matter how you cut it, or what side you support, this isn't good. Let's hope it resolves itself with as little bloodshed as possible, and things don't turn into total anarchy. Don't be fooled into thinking that anarchy and a 100% reversal of power & governance can't happen though.

If it is not democracy, then what is it? How was democracy inevitably achieved in your country? Most democracies did not start that way, the people had to fight to gain liberties. I would guess through force, because most ruling governments that do not represent the people end up in some type reaction from the people.

In Canada, democracy was achieved quite peacefully, actually. Nonetheless, that doesn't matter, because well, it's Canada. I'm currently living in Issan myself, and at the beginning felt quite supportive of the red shirts. I felt for their plight, and thought their demands were very legitimate and reasonable. That's changed now though, as they've completely crossed the line. Peacefully protesting is one thing, but trying to overthrow the current government with a blood thirsty vengeance is another thing.

There is a line, and the red shirts have more than crossed it now. For example, civilians can't just setup checkpoints around the country, and search and seize vehicles as they see fit. People who cross the line in such a way aren't looking for democracy. They're looking for power, and to dictate their ideologies on everyone else. As it stands, I honestly do hope the current government has the means, capability, and will to crackdown on the protesters. If the red shirts win this ordeal, Thailand isn't going to be a pretty sight.

If the red shirts manage to overthrow the government, don't expect them to be civil about it, and say, "Great! Now let's all get along, and hold free & fair elections". Not gonna happen.

You're absolutely right.. and I guarantee nary a red shirt supporter has thought this far ahead.. especially the ones on this forum.

[ozzieman05]

(((((Of course! I would too if the army of my country was killing people with "rubber bullets". Seems their training is so crap that they are killing each other, not civilians - at the moment... Or was that the watermelons who did that?

Anyway why ask for facts when the government has tried to silence any dissenting voice - publications, TV, political scientists and websites? Anyone who still supports this Fascist government needs counselling with something like a baseball bat...))))

Be fair here

The US forces in world war II killed so many in friendly fire, the press was told to not report on it

[Sisaketmike]

No matter who killed the solider in the end any violence from here on out in my opinion is RED. The government has bent over backwards to avoid conflict.

If the red shirts keep trying to block roads and reek havoc on citizens, they have to know the potential for violence, and cannot act innocent.

They could easily go home and start to prepare for elections in less than a year.

If the government remains passive for too long, innocent citizens become at risk.

Well said jingthing!

IMHO:

People have to remember none of this would ever have happened if the red shirts started the blockades in the first place ( which is an illegal act in its own right).

They have no right to take the law into their own hands!

I have heard too many stories about terrorized drivers being stopped by red shirt thugs driving to work.

When will this all end?

It will have an end when people like you are writing posts like that. Nobody really wants to know what you've heard.

Stop your posts and all will have an end.

There's not much difference between foreigners who might think they know all about the problems here, but after all they know nothing at all.

[landofthefree]

According to news reports, the army are stepping up presence around Rajprasong, possibly for a crackdown tonight. In my opinion, pushing the protesters out of Rajprasong could back-fire. Right now they're somewhat peacefully 'stuck' there, but pushing them out of Rajprasong will make them spread all over the city.

If the army go in there will be carnage , it will be the end of Abhisit and probably the start of a civil war. Lets all pray that they don't do it.

If he caves to the red terror, there will probably be civil war as well. Remember the MAJORITY of Thais (yellow plus all non-reds) are not in favor of a red government, especially now, that they have become a terrorist organization.

A great argument for holding elections unfortunately Abhisit doesn't seem to share your confidence.

[FatherF]

I think that using force by Abhisit is absolutely the wrong thing to do.

It may disperse the crowd but it will NOT kill off the movement, peopel will still bear grudges and hold grievances and the movement will go underground.

Underground movements tend to resort to violent tactics....we see this already in the southern provinces here in Thailand...and we have seen it before in Northern Ireland, the Basque country, Palestine etc

The only hope for a peaceful outcome is negotiation

Completely agree, unfortunately, the reds cannot/will not negotiate, it would seem that they are only capable of making demands!

FF

Don't be silly, Abhisit refused to talk last time when the reds softened their demands....

Yes, because it was more "Demands!" He, however did offer more talks, but the reds refused!

FF

[ozzieman05]

I think that using force by Abhisit is absolutely the wrong thing to do.

It may disperse the crowd but it will NOT kill off the movement, peopel will still bear grudges and hold grievances and the movement will go underground.

Underground movements tend to resort to violent tactics....we see this already in the southern provinces here in Thailand...and we have seen it before in Northern Ireland, the Basque country, Palestine etc

The only hope for a peaceful outcome is negotiation

You are a born genius

But did you realise the Reds will not negotiate unless it is 100% their way

This is not negotiation

[Jingthing]

According to news reports, the army are stepping up presence around Rajprasong, possibly for a crackdown tonight. In my opinion, pushing the protesters out of Rajprasong could back-fire. Right now they're somewhat peacefully 'stuck' there, but pushing them out of Rajprasong will make them spread all over the city.

If the army go in there will be carnage , it will be the end of Abhisit and probably the start of a civil war. Lets all pray that they don't do it.

If he caves to the red terror, there will probably be civil war as well. Remember the MAJORITY of Thais (yellow plus all non-reds) are not in favor of a red government, especially now, that they have become a terrorist organization.

A great argument for holding elections unfortunately Abhisit doesn't seem to share your confidence.

Fair elections are NOT possible now. Duh.

[Neurath]

I think that using force by Abhisit is absolutely the wrong thing to do.

It may disperse the crowd but it will NOT kill off the movement, peopel will still bear grudges and hold grievances and the movement will go underground.

Underground movements tend to resort to violent tactics....we see this already in the southern provinces here in Thailand...and we have seen it before in Northern Ireland, the Basque country, Palestine etc

The only hope for a peaceful outcome is negotiation

Completely agree, unfortunately, the reds cannot/will not negotiate, it would seem that they are only capable of making demands!

FF

Don't be silly, Abhisit refused to talk last time when the reds softened their demands....

He refused the (non-negotiable) demand for a house dissolution in 30 days as a PRECONDITION for talks. That's not going to work.