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Thailand's Yellow-Shirts Call For PM Abhisit To Stand Down


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The PAD aren't asking for dissolution of parliament they are asking Abhisit to step down as PM/Democrat leader.

Yes. In fact the PAD is asking Abhisit NOT to dissolve Parliament... that is the crux of the issue.

Everyone else agrees with most of the five conditions for peace, as they are obvious and mostly motherhood and apple pie. Completely vague and not measureable, for a reason.

I think they're asking the other ministers, not Abhisit personally, as he's already played his cards.

You are right, but this is the PM's call and not that of the other ministers. No vote is taken. When a PM calls for a dissolution of parliament, then parliament is dissolved.

Forget about the PAD. The amount of Democrats pissed off about this move outnumbers the PAD pissed off at this move. However, as I wrote on another thread, Abhisit has it right. When you have multiple groups with their own agendas, if you have it right nobody will be happy. If any side is happy, then it isn't equally fair to all.

What is incredulous is that the Reds' leaders are still thinking it over. This is it. This is the most they will get. While Abhisit hasn't put an expiry on this offer, the DSI are giving the Reds' leaders until May 15th to give themselves up because on April 15th they said they would on May 15th. This is separate from Arismon's saying in March that he would give up on April 1st. If the real (non fake) Reds' leaders don't walk in on May 15th, all bets are off.

Edited by Old Man River
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Abhisit handled this all very badly - he in effect relinquished control to the army a while back and now the Yellows (allegedly close allies of the army) are asking for him to stand down? - what a coincidence - basically his bosses have sacked him.

Anupong was never loyal enough to carry out Abhisit's orders to crackdown on the protesters.... basically he has been insubordinate.

Seems he did not want to get his hands dirty... Anupong really is a disloyal "employee" and should have been fired a long time ago for insubordination.

It was the army who asked Abhisit to sign a dispersion order, I think it was last Saturday which he rejected. Lack of responsibility comes to mind, also double standards. He only gave verbal orders.

I would have thought those verbal orders should have been enough... I do not understand how orders are normally carried out, but Anupong looked awfully uneasy next to Abhisit when they last appeared on TV together... and he has stated numerous times that he would NOT use violence against the reds....

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lols! Thaksin definitely has Chinese blood. For sure... it is certainly VERY STRANGE that his entire profile is that of an ELITE, undemocratic, corrupt politician.... which is exactly the OPPOSITE of what the red shirts CLAIM to stand for!!!! Believe it, or NOT!!!!!!!!!!! ;-)

nice reminder :D Mr T has all the qualities that reds don't want :D why Mr T :)

post-26955-1273153836_thumb.jpg

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Can someone please point at something not involving corruption in this country for me? Where are the good guys?

Well - the BOI never asked me for a payoff - I think they are fairly clean.

Also - the one stop visa centre for BOI holders also seems pretty good.

It's not 100%, but many of the caddies are pretty honest.

Funny thing is if the country didn't have corruption and poverty, most farangs would't be here.

:):D:D not 100% right, but where high percentage of truth ! do you still remember how much you paid on your container clearance ? if you paid it by yourself :D I was warned by an well-known international mover at the time of quote !

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lols! Thaksin definitely has Chinese blood. For sure... it is certainly VERY STRANGE that his entire profile is that of an ELITE, undemocratic, corrupt politician.... which is exactly the OPPOSITE of what the red shirts CLAIM to stand for!!!! Believe it, or NOT!!!!!!!!!!! ;-)

nice reminder :D Mr T has all the qualities that reds don't want :D why Mr T :)

Interesting that some ex pats are fixated that you have to either be yellow or red when abhisit has surprised us all by not being one or the other. Also ones views can change over time and I for one started out very red and liking Thaksin but then went off him after I learned that he owns 27 valuable wrist watches and yes I do see the irony in where his suport base comes from. So I am anti Yellow and always thought that made me Red but now I'm not sure anymore. Does that make any sense? :D

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like what election did Apisit win? .....they got power, not through an election, but by occupying the airport... PAD have the interest in maintaining that the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor.....real people power through democracy is anathema to the PAD.

Its no surprse that the yellows have reacted against Apisit this way. In fact it was logically the next step. No matter which way this goes, the yellows will lose, but they won't lose without a fight. They will lose simply because they can't win. How bloody they want to make their end is the bit we don't know.

What could the PAD, Peoples alliance for DEMOCRACY, possibly have against calling for elections ????? -

555555

:-D

Sure, they love democracy so much, they want elections every 6 months. :)

Part of democracy is not being forced into having elections and everyone waiting until they are actually due.

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The PAD aren't asking for dissolution of parliament they are asking Abhisit to step down as PM/Democrat leader.

Yes. In fact the PAD is asking Abhisit NOT to dissolve Parliament... that is the crux of the issue.

Everyone else agrees with most of the five conditions for peace, as they are obvious and mostly motherhood and apple pie. Completely vague and not measureable, for a reason.

I think they're asking the other ministers, not Abhisit personally, as he's already played his cards.

You are right, but this is the PM's call and not that of the other ministers. No vote is taken. When a PM calls for a dissolution of parliament, then parliament is dissolved.

Forget about the PAD. The amount of Democrats pissed off about this move outnumbers the PAD pissed off at this move. However, as I wrote on another thread, Abhisit has it right. When you have multiple groups with their own agendas, if you have it right nobody will be happy. If any side is happy, then it isn't equally fair to all.

What is incredulous is that the Reds' leaders are still thinking it over. This is it. This is the most they will get. While Abhisit hasn't put an expiry on this offer, the DSI are giving the Reds' leaders until May 15th to give themselves up because on April 15th they said they would on May 15th. This is separate from Arismon's saying in March that he would give up on April 1st. If the real (non fake) Reds' leaders don't walk in on May 15th, all bets are off.

As well they should be! Walk on!

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Can someone please point at something not involving corruption in this country for me? Where are the good guys?

Well - the BOI never asked me for a payoff - I think they are fairly clean.

Also - the one stop visa centre for BOI holders also seems pretty good.

It's not 100%, but many of the caddies are pretty honest.

Funny thing is if the country didn't have corruption and poverty, most farangs would't be here.

I,m afraid i have to gree with that one, But! surely there should be some good guys somewhere, I seem to remember a few years ago even the anti corruption commission got disbanded for being corrupt?

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The blood thirsty terrorist red's won't be happy until they offer some more of their "sacraficial sheep" (the poor, women and children) that they hide behind. They are insatiable (they just can't get enough blood spilled) Why don't they just go home????? NO, NO, that wouldn't satisfy their thirst for blood. They won't be satisfied until a few more of their "sacrificial sheep" have been slaughtered. AND WHY????? Then they can call the government "KILLERS" again............ The red's are the ones responsible for most of the deaths, even though it may be indirectly (in some cases), and all for their ultimate goal of making the government look bad, which they mistakenly think makes them look "not so bad"........ And here again, Taksin is the driving force behind it all............ I certainly hope that some day all of those "rural poor" who so dearly love him, and will willingly become his "sacrificial sheep", will be able to see the real picture......

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It's not 100%, but many of the caddies are pretty honest.

Funny thing is if the country didn't have corruption and poverty, most farangs would't be here.

:):D:D not 100% right, but where high percentage of truth ! do you still remember how much you paid on your container clearance ? if you paid it by yourself :D I was warned by an well-known international mover at the time of quote !

Uhhh, if you were trying to email your freight consolidator ..... yeah, that's me, and if you send me 30,000 baht I will release your container.

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What could the PAD, Peoples alliance for DEMOCRACY, possibly have against calling for elections ????? -

555555

:-D

Sure, they love democracy so much, they want elections every 6 months. :)

Part of democracy is not being forced into having elections and everyone waiting until they are actually due.

I see you don't know how places with "parliamentary democracy" like the UK and Oz work. Snap elections can happen anytime....this is the flaw of this system, which Thailand also operates under.

Another trait of this form of democracy via mass hysteria is constant rewrites of constitutions.

The carefully scheduled elections you are expecting is a trait of representative democracy under a republican (not the party) form of representation that was the form first conceived by the Greeks and Rome. The current role model for it is the US. You see it in the new Russian state as well.

In any case, one could say Thailand is more of a "banana republic" and the only flaw is that the military doesn't seem to be stepping in as fast as they should. I think they should just understand it is the only choice. Thailand used to be known for fairly minor violence in relatively bloodless coups until know, which differentiated them from Latin American banana republics....but recent events with grenades, shooting, etc. by protesters have proven they've degraded to the South America form of the banana republic....so they might as well learn to live under army rule, following the pattern of that type of state.

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lols! Thaksin definitely has Chinese blood. For sure... it is certainly VERY STRANGE that his entire profile is that of an ELITE, undemocratic, corrupt politician.... which is exactly the OPPOSITE of what the red shirts CLAIM to stand for!!!! Believe it, or NOT!!!!!!!!!!! ;-)

nice reminder :D Mr T has all the qualities that reds don't want :D why Mr T :)

Interesting that some ex pats are fixated that you have to either be yellow or red when abhisit has surprised us all by not being one or the other. Also ones views can change over time and I for one started out very red and liking Thaksin but then went off him after I learned that he owns 27 valuable wrist watches and yes I do see the irony in where his suport base comes from. So I am anti Yellow and always thought that made me Red but now I'm not sure anymore. Does that make any sense? :D

Rub a rich man's ego in the right places and money will fall from his pockets, watches from his wrists and houses will fall from Heaven (with helicopter pads). Ask Lydia, she's a red too.

Edited by Neurath
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The people who form the committee are people who are professional and put the country first. Anybody who has help a political office or military/police post in the past is automatically ruled out.

And where would you find these people? And how would you know what's in their hearts? How would you know they're not corrupt or can't be corrupted once they're in office?

Greed is everywhere. I mean a guy worth a couple of billions of dollars should have enough for the next few generations right? But still it isn't enough and he wants more.

As I posted previously somewhere around here, the selection process should be by lottery using ID card numbers for citizens over the age of 25, with considerations for equal representation geographically, and instead of 30, choose 500 and put them through intensive 30 day training on existing procedures, and these would be the representatives, subject to 90 day performance reviews and with term limits of 3 years.

Getting right off the thread here as I thought this was all about politics? But if you want to get into corruption I for one would be taking all the backhanders I could get if I was on a crappy government salary of 8-12000B a month which is an average income here. For many of us that could be considered a good night out so who can begrudge the odd government worker getting the odd 100-200B here and there.

Corruption works both ways as if you have friends in the local police you'll never pay for not wearing a crash helmet nor a parking or traffic violation. If your refering to corruption on a larger scale do your research and get a lawyer as Thailands not as bad as this thread makes it out to be. Anyone who doesn't trust Thai sources contact your embassy and don't be taken like a fool as fools get played in whatever country they're in!

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I certainly hope that some day all of those "rural poor" who so dearly love him, and will willingly become his "sacrificial sheep", will be able to see the real picture......

not sure, they have only one channel of information, and they never see anything else ! they never come to ThaiVisa.com and see these upfront discussions :)

all they remember, how Mr T showered money to them, and how they enjoyed it with beer Chang !

don't forget, they are in a huge number inside the 67 millions of Thai population !

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The people who form the committee are people who are professional and put the country first. Anybody who has help a political office or military/police post in the past is automatically ruled out.

And where would you find these people? And how would you know what's in their hearts? How would you know they're not corrupt or can't be corrupted once they're in office?

Greed is everywhere. I mean a guy worth a couple of billions of dollars should have enough for the next few generations right? But still it isn't enough and he wants more.

As I posted previously somewhere around here, the selection process should be by lottery using ID card numbers for citizens over the age of 25, with considerations for equal representation geographically, and instead of 30, choose 500 and put them through intensive 30 day training on existing procedures, and these would be the representatives, subject to 90 day performance reviews and with term limits of 3 years.

Getting right off the thread here as I thought this was all about politics? But if you want to get into corruption I for one would be taking all the backhanders I could get if I was on a crappy government salary of 8-12000B a month which is an average income here. For many of us that could be considered a good night out so who can begrudge the odd government worker getting the odd 100-200B here and there.

Corruption works both ways as if you have friends in the local police you'll never pay for not wearing a crash helmet nor a parking or traffic violation. If your refering to corruption on a larger scale do your research and get a lawyer as Thailands not as bad as this thread makes it out to be. Anyone who doesn't trust Thai sources contact your embassy and don't be taken like a fool as fools get played in whatever country they're in!

I thought politics and corruption were one and the same in thailand...how can it be getting off the thread?

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The PAD aren't asking for dissolution of parliament they are asking Abhisit to step down as PM/Democrat leader.

Yes. In fact the PAD is asking Abhisit NOT to dissolve Parliament... that is the crux of the issue.

Everyone else agrees with most of the five conditions for peace, as they are obvious and mostly motherhood and apple pie. Completely vague and not measureable, for a reason.

I think they're asking the other ministers, not Abhisit personally, as he's already played his cards.

You are right, but this is the PM's call and not that of the other ministers. No vote is taken. When a PM calls for a dissolution of parliament, then parliament is dissolved.

Forget about the PAD. The amount of Democrats pissed off about this move outnumbers the PAD pissed off at this move. However, as I wrote on another thread, Abhisit has it right. When you have multiple groups with their own agendas, if you have it right nobody will be happy. If any side is happy, then it isn't equally fair to all.

What is incredulous is that the Reds' leaders are still thinking it over. This is it. This is the most they will get. While Abhisit hasn't put an expiry on this offer, the DSI are giving the Reds' leaders until May 15th to give themselves up because on April 15th they said they would on May 15th. This is separate from Arismon's saying in March that he would give up on April 1st. If the real (non fake) Reds' leaders don't walk in on May 15th, all bets are off.

He hasn't called for dissolution though, he's proposed 14th Nov. as a possible date for elections IF etc., etc.

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The blood thirsty terrorist red's won't be happy until they offer some more of their "sacraficial sheep" (the poor, women and children) that they hide behind. They are insatiable (they just can't get enough blood spilled) Why don't they just go home????? NO, NO, that wouldn't satisfy their thirst for blood. They won't be satisfied until a few more of their "sacrificial sheep" have been slaughtered. AND WHY????? Then they can call the government "KILLERS" again............ The red's are the ones responsible for most of the deaths, even though it may be indirectly (in some cases), and all for their ultimate goal of making the government look bad, which they mistakenly think makes them look "not so bad"........ And here again, Taksin is the driving force behind it all............ I certainly hope that some day all of those "rural poor" who so dearly love him, and will willingly become his "sacrificial sheep", will be able to see the real picture......

Who's the first to bite?

post-26955-1273155119_thumb.jpg

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As 1 member said it will never end I have to agree.

This lot are so mixed up they have not got a clue what they want.If the PM is so sure he is doing the right thing and has the backing of the people then disolve the lower house and have new elections and he should be back in in a flash if he thinks the money is on him. what has he got to lose a bit of face for the good of the country

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Contrary to some observations, the doggy doo doo has not yet hit the fan, and in fact has not yet been ejected toward the fan, but the signs are clear that the time is imminent. What we are seeing is jockeying for position when the time becomes clear to all and the country declares a mandatory 60 day time out and all sides are ordered back to their corners before they come back out swinging in earnest to view for their place in history.

There are just too many factions within factions to keep track of them all. The powers within the "reds" and "yellows" have their own internal divisions. There are divisions within the parliament, divisions within the court, divisions within the military. There are divisions within divisions and nobody knows who is going to come out on top so most folks are hedging their bets. The Bard loved these Machiavellian scenarios for his tragedies.

My only advice to foreign ex-pats is to not take sides and to not get involved. You are as naive as the red shorted Isaan farmer who thinks Thaksin is a savior or the equally naive Bangkok-based yellow shirted Sino-Thai low ranking corporate Dilbert. What, you thought this was all about democracy?!?

Best now to quote from the Bard:

Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,

Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,

To the last syllable of recorded time;

And all our yesterdays have lighted fools

The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!

Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,

That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,

And then is heard no more. It is a tale

Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,

Signifying nothing.

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like what election did Apisit win? .....they got power, not through an election, but by occupying the airport... PAD have the interest in maintaining that the rich stay rich and the poor stay poor.....real people power through democracy is anathema to the PAD.

Its no surprse that the yellows have reacted against Apisit this way. In fact it was logically the next step. No matter which way this goes, the yellows will lose, but they won't lose without a fight. They will lose simply because they can't win. How bloody they want to make their end is the bit we don't know.

What could the PAD, Peoples alliance for DEMOCRACY, possibly have against calling for elections ????? -

555555

:-D

Sure, they love democracy so much, they want elections every 6 months. :)

Aphisit was elected in the 2007 polls as a member of parliament and the leader of the democrats. When the PPP violated the election laws the other parties formed a coalition and a new government was formed. That's how parliamentary democracy works. I suggest you look it up before posting anymore nonsense. The Yellows are upset that the PM is caving in to the reds. The reds can't be trusted to follow through on any requirements of the roadmap. They certainly won't surrender on the 15th.

Part of democracy is not being forced into having elections and everyone waiting until they are actually due.

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Maybe form a new party of Reds and Yellows, call it the People Alliance for International Democracy... or P.A.I.D.... :)

Nice post. I think "P.A.I.D" says it all. For sure some big Thai polo out there is setting up his/their future. Well said!!

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I wonder if Abhisit is still claiming that he's got the majority of Thais behind him now. The red shirts want him out, the yellow (aka. multi-colored) shirts want him out. What a circus. And the best he can come up with today is calling a student to explain the political situation. What a joke. How about taking the time for 3-party (PM, UDD, PAD) discussions instead of this?

BANGKOK: -- Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva personally called a political science student at a university in Songkhla to explain his roadmap and the circumstances that forced him to set the November 14 elections. The call was in response to the student's text message.
Edited by cheguevara
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Contrary to some observations, the doggy doo doo has not yet hit the fan, and in fact has not yet been ejected toward the fan, but the signs are clear that the time is imminent. What we are seeing is jockeying for position when the time becomes clear to all and the country declares a mandatory 60 day time out and all sides are ordered back to their corners before they come back out swinging in earnest to view for their place in history.

There are just too many factions within factions to keep track of them all. The powers within the "reds" and "yellows" have their own internal divisions. There are divisions within the parliament, divisions within the court, divisions within the military. There are divisions within divisions and nobody knows who is going to come out on top so most folks are hedging their bets. The Bard loved these Machiavellian scenarios for his tragedies.

My only advice to foreign ex-pats is to not take sides and to not get involved. You are as naive as the red shorted Isaan farmer who thinks Thaksin is a savior or the equally naive Bangkok-based yellow shirted Sino-Thai low ranking corporate Dilbert. What, you thought this was all about democracy?!?

Best now to quote from the Bard:

Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,

Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,

To the last syllable of recorded time;

And all our yesterdays have lighted fools

The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!

Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,

That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,

And then is heard no more. It is a tale

Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,

Signifying nothing.

An interesting comment, Johpa. Yes, the situation is confusing and is likely to become even more so, but why can't we take sides and comment here ON THE WEBBOARD? What is the threat? Will we get banned for having an opinion?! lols

And who died and made you the "expert" and all of us lowly red shirt like farmers or SinoThai low ranking corporate Dilberts? Sorry, but you are being presumptuous.

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I wonder if Abhisit is still claiming that he's got the majority of Thais behind him now. The red shirts want him out, the yellow (aka. multi-colored) shirts want him out. What a circus. And the best he can come up with today is calling a student to explain the political situation. What a joke. How about taking the time for 3-party (PM, UDD, PAD) discussions instead of this?
BANGKOK: -- Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva personally called a political science student at a university in Songkhla to explain his roadmap and the circumstances that forced him to set the November 14 elections. The call was in response to the student's text message.

My sentiments exactly, Cheguevara.... if you try to please everyone, you end up pleasing NO ONE... we need bold, leadership now based on principles, not backroom deal making and nonsenstical posturing...

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It will never end. :D

Even when it ends, it will never end...

Thailand has reached the stage, when the 'Top' can not continue to rule, while the 'Bottom' can not continue to be ruled in the old, traditional ways.

Something's got to give. Changing Govt 'personalities' will not help. Military coups will not change. Abhisit, Thaksin, or whoever, - will not change anything.

This country needs a big change in socio-economic policy.

I don't see any party offering this.

I hope never to see another 'revolution' in my life. Too costly... :D

:) Any group, party or individuals calling for blood, harsh measures, army involvement etc., think of the costs! Then, think again!... :D

Yes - that's about it for me, for what my opinion is worth.

Yet in saying this, it does not argue that this crisis is some kind of peasant's revolt - it is egos at play and power struggles but it is symptomatic of something much larger and more worrying. The whole fabric and system is creaking at the seams because it is outdated in the globalised world. You either have to to let it go or become more authoritarian to prop it up. You cannot fiddle around in the middle and hope that it sort of heals itself, it ain't gonna happen. A vertical sociopolitical hierarchy (semi-feudal structure) and a democracy cannot co-exist - they are at odds with another, as one demands equality and one exists through inequality - society is not fair but it is fairer than what is self-evident here. That does not condone violence or any such actions, but it does acknowledge that the globalised era brings with it a much more violent society, so there really should be no surprise that violence occurs. Ultimately, though, everything one sees now, it could be argued, is just the the start as there is every chance this system will completely unravel when mother nature takes its sad but inevitable course...

Wow..nice to see someone who has really thought this through. I'm right with you :D even if it is a rather depressing thought :D

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Contrary to some observations, the doggy doo doo has not yet hit the fan, and in fact has not yet been ejected toward the fan, but the signs are clear that the time is imminent. What we are seeing is jockeying for position when the time becomes clear to all and the country declares a mandatory 60 day time out and all sides are ordered back to their corners before they come back out swinging in earnest to view for their place in history.

There are just too many factions within factions to keep track of them all. The powers within the "reds" and "yellows" have their own internal divisions. There are divisions within the parliament, divisions within the court, divisions within the military. There are divisions within divisions and nobody knows who is going to come out on top so most folks are hedging their bets. The Bard loved these Machiavellian scenarios for his tragedies.

My only advice to foreign ex-pats is to not take sides and to not get involved. You are as naive as the red shorted Isaan farmer who thinks Thaksin is a savior or the equally naive Bangkok-based yellow shirted Sino-Thai low ranking corporate Dilbert. What, you thought this was all about democracy?!?

Best now to quote from the Bard:

Tomorrow, and tomorrow, and tomorrow,

Creeps in this petty pace from day to day,

To the last syllable of recorded time;

And all our yesterdays have lighted fools

The way to dusty death. Out, out, brief candle!

Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player,

That struts and frets his hour upon the stage,

And then is heard no more. It is a tale

Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury,

Signifying nothing.

I think all that's true but don't you think what's going on now is designed to either eliminate, neutralize or bring under the protection of a larger faction many of these sub-factions? Clearly this exercise by Abhisit is for consolidation purposes and yes it could certainly be too little too late, what with well financed rougue elements incessantly provoking. Still I think we're approaching this time in better shape than we might have.

Edited by lannarebirth
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I wonder if Abhisit is still claiming that he's got the majority of Thais behind him now. The red shirts want him out, the yellow (aka. multi-colored) shirts want him out. What a circus. And the best he can come up with today is calling a student to explain the political situation. What a joke. How about taking the time for 3-party (PM, UDD, PAD) discussions instead of this?
BANGKOK: -- Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva personally called a political science student at a university in Songkhla to explain his roadmap and the circumstances that forced him to set the November 14 elections. The call was in response to the student's text message.

My sentiments exactly, Cheguevara.... if you try to please everyone, you end up pleasing NO ONE... we need bold, leadership now based on principles, not backroom deal making and nonsenstical posturing...

It's a Clinton/Obama style move. Get your message out sympathetically, no opportunity for feedback. It shows Abhisit maybe has learned a lesson or two from Thaksin who was very good at this kind of thing.

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