Thai Vs. Farang Vanity , Culture And Values

[cognos]

We get good laughs from our Thai gf's and wives eh fellas? If only the western media could figure it out, that it ain't all about the sex.. its often more about the fun of just hangin' out with them, and having sanook/laughs as a result of our differences in things like vanity, culture and values.

I mean, thats what often puts the spice in the relationships, after the obvious initial physical attractions. Without the nuances of the different cultural values of the farang and the Thai, and the concomitant humour that goes along with it, could the mere physical attraction hold up in the long run? Viva la difference.

Vanity: Exhibit A: The North American farang ( having lived in Europe for a few years, Europeans may not be so vain in this area) often does not fart in front of the better half, as generally its considered rude..today my wife told me that farting is "lovely"..natural.. I don't know about lovely, but natural, sure. Imagine a first date.. or better yet a first blind date.. two farangs, and one farts soon after meeting.. HUGE FAUX PAS !! The winner here is the Thai culture.. farangs? ..too vain about stuff like farting..

Vanity : Exhibit B: Today the wife and I went crab fishing..here in Vancouver.. warm day ( not Thailand 40 c hot though), close to 25 c.. the wife is used to this weather, so I was wondering why she was so bundled up.. me in a t shirt, her in a shirt, heavy sweater and long winter coat. When I told her she would be too warm, and a sweater is good enough, she replied.." I too brown, I don't want to be brown, better too hot than too brown". The winner here is farang culture, as Thais are too vain about the color of their skin ( yes, I know why)..

Values: Exhibit A: After fishing we go shopping. I say to her.." hey, I think I'll buy this chocolate cake".. Her reply?.. " good, it not sweet" <deleted> ??

Culture: ..well... they are endless, aren't they?

I'm sure you have better examples.. carry on as you wish..

[kopite]

nice post.

theres too many to mention them all, but when it comes to values, i love thai family values. maybe im just fortunate in the family i have found myself to be a member of, but the general love, care and commitment to her mother, sisters and brothers that i have seen my wife give has at times astonished me. it is something that i find is lacking now in western culture.

[Heng]

No, don't hit the pressure release valve! Wait until all the workers have gone home for the day and it's nice and quiet.

[lioness]

Traffic Jams - Thais dont seem to get overly upset, my first traffic jam in Thailand many years ago, had me sitting in the middle of it for nearly an hour barely moving, all this because of an accident, the Thai passengers didn't blink an eyelid, just hopped out of the car and went and bought some food at a roadside stall and sat on the grass under a tree and just waited until the problem was resolved. The Thai is the winner, why get upset about something you can't change.

In Australia, it would have had an entirely different response with a bit of road rage thrown in, some swearing and maybe even fisticuffs.

[Chunky1]

I wish I could get out of my apartment without having to smile and make small talk, like in the West where you don't know your neighbor's names.

[robblok]

I wish I could get out of my apartment without having to smile and make small talk, like in the West where you don't know your neighbor's names.

Not where i came from.. i lived in a village we al made small talk with neighbors.

[cognos]

nice post.

theres too many to mention them all, but when it comes to values, i love thai family values. maybe im just fortunate in the family i have found myself to be a member of, but the general love, care and commitment to her mother, sisters and brothers that i have seen my wife give has at times astonished me. it is something that i find is lacking now in western culture.

yes.. it makes me almost jealous as a farang that at times I don't love my own extended family in the west as my wife love hers in Thailand ( and I love her family more than my own, blush)

what happened in the west ??

[Boo]

^^^talk for yourself. My family in UK is closer than my husbands in Thailand & certainly has more genuine like & respect for each other.

I just laugh at all these comments about how things lack in the west blah blah, they are based on your own personal experiences, which has zilch to do with other peoples families in Thailand or their own country.

[cognos]

^^^talk for yourself. My family in UK is closer than my husbands in Thailand & certainly has more genuine like & respect for each other.

I just laugh at all these comments about how things lack in the west blah blah, they are based on your own personal experiences, which has zilch to do with other peoples families in Thailand or their own country.

ok Boo, you tell me that people in the west ( and North America in particular ) have the same family values as in Thailand. When i see young people like yourself and others looking after their parents in old age IN THEIR HOMES, rather than shuffling them off to an " old age ", or residents home, then your argument will have the veracity you desire... will you look after your parents when they are infirm.. in YOUR HOME?? I hope the answer is yes. Will I? Probably not, but perhaps. I know my wife would like to do that, as she is "conditioned" to be very family orientated, as are most in Thailand, your husband's family the exception to the general rule apparantly.

. In Thailand, kids often look after their families even when mom or dad has not been that great of parents. I don't see that happening in the west, but perhaps I have the blinders on, unlike you.

.. i am genuinely happy that your family is close.. i have never lived in England, so it may be different there, at least it is with you.. and as for your husbands family not being close, that is not the norm in Thailand and I will guess that you are cognizant of that.

one family does not a generalization make

[cognos]

^^^talk for yourself. My family in UK is closer than my husbands in Thailand & certainly has more genuine like & respect for each other.

I just laugh at all these comments about how things lack in the west blah blah, they are based on your own personal experiences, which has zilch to do with other peoples families in Thailand or their own country.

what comments about things lack in the west?? This post does not infer that, directly or otherwise,

but its good that you can laugh.. it keeps the blood pressure down eh.. mine's 115 over 60.. and I laugh alot too

[Koh_Falang]

Traffic Jams - Thais dont seem to get overly upset, my first traffic jam in Thailand many years ago, had me sitting in the middle of it for nearly an hour barely moving, all this because of an accident, the Thai passengers didn't blink an eyelid, just hopped out of the car and went and bought some food at a roadside stall and sat on the grass under a tree and just waited until the problem was resolved. The Thai is the winner, why get upset about something you can't change.

In Australia, it would have had an entirely different response with a bit of road rage thrown in, some swearing and maybe even fisticuffs.

Agree they seem to be less agitated then our AUS counterparts however i think they still get frustrated...

Got stuck in traffic the other day with my friend and she started getting quite annoyed at the taxi driver who was in the left lane stopped but the right lane was moving almost freely... then when we finally got out of that lane, the right lane blocked up... She wasnt very happy with the driver LOL... Maybe its a rare case of an angry Thai? not sure...

PS how good is it that you can get out of the taxi and jump on a motorbike taxi that will sift through it... its probably my fav way to get a short distance around bkk...

[mca]

ok Boo, you tell me that people in the west ( and North America in particular ) have the same family values as in Thailand. When i see young people like yourself and others looking after their parents in old age IN THEIR HOMES, rather than shuffling them off to an " old age ", or residents home, then your argument will have the veracity you desire... will you look after your parents when they are infirm.. in YOUR HOME??

Well of course it's a case of economics isn't it? If Thailand had a system of old people's homes ( which it doesn't) how many Thais could actually afford to have their parents stay in one if the cost was proportionate to the west?

The same with the old adage of the close Thai family all living together. Again, a huge number of low wage earners simply can't afford any other option. Their salary simply goes on the basics of living hand to mouth every month. Nothing to do with family values in my humble opinion.

[cognos]

" Neither the Thai nor the Western system is better. They are both self-sustaining systems that maintain order in society and keep people content" ..Thailand Fever

in my experience, once you get Thailand out of your "system" ( like many I fell in love hard with the country and the peoiple, and the culture..).. you go full circle and start to appreciate the west again for what it is..

.. some folks on TV get riled up when they assume you are slamming western values, western women.. western culture..that is not my agenda.. but it is pretty hard to change peoples minds, except over time

[eek]

I do like that the car horn isnt used lightly. I like the politeness, even if it may be just protocol and not genuine. However, i can honestly say ive mostly felt general interactions to be genuinely polite and considerate. I like the clean and tidiness that people usually have. I rarely, if ever, have smelt BO on a Thai. Even on a hot day in a confined space like an elevator or the MRT/skytrain. Whereas the same could not be said for somewhere like the tube in London.

However, personally dont quite agree about the "farting" comment. Both relationship-wise and friends-wise ive never heard a partner or friend do it. I also think they would be pretty shocked if I were to. Of course most would laugh if anyone were to do it by accident. But, as an everyday occurrence..its not really something ive personally encountered. Well..at least not obviously..lol.

[Heng]

ok Boo, you tell me that people in the west ( and North America in particular ) have the same family values as in Thailand. When i see young people like yourself and others looking after their parents in old age IN THEIR HOMES, rather than shuffling them off to an " old age ", or residents home, then your argument will have the veracity you desire... will you look after your parents when they are infirm.. in YOUR HOME??

Well of course it's a case of economics isn't it? If Thailand had a system of old people's homes ( which it doesn't) how many Thais could actually afford to have their parents stay in one if the cost was proportionate to the west?

The same with the old adage of the close Thai family all living together. Again, a huge number of low wage earners simply can't afford any other option. Their salary simply goes on the basics of living hand to mouth every month. Nothing to do with family values in my humble opinion.

Probably not a black and white call either way, but the fact that large numbers of relatively well to do and wealthy Thais also take care of their parents and often grandparents would suggest that it's not simply economics. Although I'm sure the cynics would say 'heck, of course so you can make sure you can a piece of that inheritance!'

[tonititan]

ok Boo, you tell me that people in the west ( and North America in particular ) have the same family values as in Thailand. When i see young people like yourself and others looking after their parents in old age IN THEIR HOMES, rather than shuffling them off to an " old age ", or residents home, then your argument will have the veracity you desire... will you look after your parents when they are infirm.. in YOUR HOME?? I hope the answer is yes. Will I? Probably not, but perhaps. I know my wife would like to do that, as she is "conditioned" to be very family orientated, as are most in Thailand, your husband's family the exception to the general rule apparantly.

It's always funny to hear people talk about the family values in Thailand being far superior, especially regarding the fact that Thais will take care of their parents in their home. Most of the people making these comments probably left their parents (and maybe children, etc.) behind in the west (perhaps even in nursing/old folds home) to come make a new life in Thailand. Real good family values, huh?

[mca]

ok Boo, you tell me that people in the west ( and North America in particular ) have the same family values as in Thailand. When i see young people like yourself and others looking after their parents in old age IN THEIR HOMES, rather than shuffling them off to an " old age ", or residents home, then your argument will have the veracity you desire... will you look after your parents when they are infirm.. in YOUR HOME??

Well of course it's a case of economics isn't it? If Thailand had a system of old people's homes ( which it doesn't) how many Thais could actually afford to have their parents stay in one if the cost was proportionate to the west?

The same with the old adage of the close Thai family all living together. Again, a huge number of low wage earners simply can't afford any other option. Their salary simply goes on the basics of living hand to mouth every month. Nothing to do with family values in my humble opinion.

Probably not a black and white call either way, but the fact that large numbers of relatively well to do and wealthy Thais also take care of their parents and often grandparents would suggest that it's not simply economics. Although I'm sure the cynics would say 'heck, of course so you can make sure you can a piece of that inheritance!'

I hear you Heng but wouldn't you agree that a number of those well to do and wealthy Thai would be business owners following the concept of the "keep it under one roof in the family" way of running companies with the matriarch/patriarch at the top as opposed to a case of taking care of the old folks?

My soi is what could be termed as strictly middle class (for want of a better word). Golf clubs and fairly new mid range cars under the carports. You know the deal. Out of about 20 properties I can't think of one that isn't a nuclear family.

[Heng]

I hear you Heng but wouldn't you agree that a number of those well to do and wealthy Thai would be business owners following the concept of the "keep it under one roof in the family" way of running companies with the matriarch/patriarch at the top as opposed to a case of taking care of the old folks?

My soi is what could be termed as strictly middle class (for want of a better word). Golf clubs and fairly new mid range cars under the carports. You know the deal. Out of about 20 properties I can't think of one that isn't a nuclear family.

"Keep it under one roof in the family" is also the way the poor, middle class, and of course well to do all run their families IMO. As to whether it's a multinational group of companies or a couple of mom and pop shops, or even the family farm is only a difference in terms of net revenue.

There are definitely plenty of folks who don't take care of their folks, but I wouldn't necessarily say it's a sign of the times as in many cases, there simply aren't enough parents to go around. My dad and one of my aunts 'takes care' of his mom and dad but that means that 7 other siblings (although yes, all siblings pay into the central fund "krong si") don't have an opportunity to. Some families take turns/tours of duty having the old folks hang out with them half a year to a year at a time. OMMV.

[cognos]

Westerners value independence, so many would feel a little shame to be "looked after" by their own children..so saving for retirement is first and foremost in many cases..

..plus there is a little bit of me, me ,me first!! attitude among many in ( materialistic) North America, and some Asian families may fear moving to the west, as after their children get "westernized" and indoctrinated with western ideals, they may not be interested in looking after their parents in old age, as their own parents did to their grandparents while still in Asia.

[cognos]

Thais will often ask questions of farang that may seem personal in the west..example..at the wedding in Phuket, the Thai guests at the wedding asked several questions of the wife and I to answer for all.. like.." why do you love her/him"??

for many cultural things and values..its like the pendulum is at one extreme in the west and the other extreme in the east..

middle ground anyone??

[SomTumTiger]

Bet the dinner conversations must be scintillating.

[cognos]

Bet the dinner conversations must be scintillating.

kin cow lao young khrap/kha???

[gregb]

ok Boo, you tell me that people in the west ( and North America in particular ) have the same family values as in Thailand. When i see young people like yourself and others looking after their parents in old age IN THEIR HOMES, rather than shuffling them off to an " old age ", or residents home, then your argument will have the veracity you desire... will you look after your parents when they are infirm.. in YOUR HOME??

Well of course it's a case of economics isn't it? If Thailand had a system of old people's homes ( which it doesn't) how many Thais could actually afford to have their parents stay in one if the cost was proportionate to the west?

The same with the old adage of the close Thai family all living together. Again, a huge number of low wage earners simply can't afford any other option. Their salary simply goes on the basics of living hand to mouth every month. Nothing to do with family values in my humble opinion.

Probably not a black and white call either way, but the fact that large numbers of relatively well to do and wealthy Thais also take care of their parents and often grandparents would suggest that it's not simply economics. Although I'm sure the cynics would say 'heck, of course so you can make sure you can a piece of that inheritance!'

It also has alot to do with the size of the family. If you have 10 family members living in close proximity, it is not extraordinarily difficult to take care of an elderly parent. The task can be shared among many people. If you are only 1 person trying to take care of an invalid parent while at the same time taking care of 2 children and working a job, the demands can simply be impossible.

As Thai family sizes are decreasing, this problem is becoming more and more apparent. Already in the villages I see examples of children of small families abandoning their parents to be looked after by others in the village. This is a Thai solution to the Western concept of old age homes. Generally, the child forgoes the family farm which is deeded to the caregiver.

The problem really comes down to the percentage of time necessary to provide support. When this can be kept to a reasonable level, either because the parent does not require much in the way of help, or because there is a large family to spread the burden over, people tend to take care of the parents themselves, even in the West. When it becomes untenable, then the parents get shipped off to an old folks home, or someone else is paid to take care of them.

The global ageing population demographics are going to exacerbate this issue in the next few decades.

I would be careful about using this example to illustrate the differences between Thai and Western values, although in general I would agree that Thais do tend to view family bonds as a little more important than farangs.

[Boo]

When my stepfathers father was ill, he moved into our family home, he died there after a long & quite difficult deterioration from dementia. I was working in the city & living at home that time too & used to get his morning tea & clean him up after the nightly accident before getting myself ready & off to work. I did it to give my mum a break but also becuase I was the first one up every day but also becuase there is nothing worse than seeing someone you love feel ashamed for his son to see him after losing bowel control again.

My own grandmother is now unable to stay alone & is moving into our family home, she is 87, blind, riddled with cancer, has a stoma bag, can't walk very far but has previously refused any & all offers to move in. She values her independence but putting her in a home was never an option or suggested. So yes, we, I & my family do & will continue to do so to those of us who need it. Just because you wouldn't isn't proof that your view on thai-western families is accurate.

I am of the opinion that if old peoples homes were provided the same as in the west that many thai families would chose the option. Just because they are duty bound to take care of an old person doesn't mean that would be there first option just as I think that living with relatives & being a burden wouldn't be the choice of many of those old people too. Choice is a wonderful thing really & one that many thai families don't have access to.

Add to that that many thai families are still working in & around the close vicinity to home then they are geographically able to take care of sick & elderly relatives whereas in the west the majority of people are working away from home between business hours (and sometimes longer) so who would be around to look after that dependent & how would they pay their increasingly high bills if they did give up work or take a job with less hours & money to manage it?

Not everything is black & white & implying that just becuase thai people take in their aged & infirm doesn't imply they want to or that those in the west who are unable to offer the same level of care somehow care less. Totally blinkered.

[IanForbes]

Traffic Jams - Thais dont seem to get overly upset, my first traffic jam in Thailand many years ago, had me sitting in the middle of it for nearly an hour barely moving, all this because of an accident, the Thai passengers didn't blink an eyelid, just hopped out of the car and went and bought some food at a roadside stall and sat on the grass under a tree and just waited until the problem was resolved. The Thai is the winner, why get upset about something you can't change.

In Australia, it would have had an entirely different response with a bit of road rage thrown in, some swearing and maybe even fisticuffs.

Ain't THAT the truth! Same here in Canada, and even worse in the USA. And, it's not because we are not conditioned to heavy traffic. We are, it's just that many people get angry about it in North America. Asians as a whole seem to have more patience.

[wintermute]

Thais will often ask questions of farang that may seem personal in the west..example..at the wedding in Phuket, the Thai guests at the wedding asked several questions of the wife and I to answer for all.. like.." why do you love her/him"??

for many cultural things and values..its like the pendulum is at one extreme in the west and the other extreme in the east..

middle ground anyone??

That is one thing I discovered also. Thais ask questions that would be considered "invasive" by western standards, and the Thai is not being rude... just curious.

I'd prefer Thai curiosity and superficial faux paux "rudeness" than the sort of open arrogance and social vulgarity that a lot of westerners seem to cultivate when abroad and at home.

[fletchsmile]

^^^talk for yourself. My family in UK is closer than my husbands in Thailand & certainly has more genuine like & respect for each other.

I just laugh at all these comments about how things lack in the west blah blah, they are based on your own personal experiences, which has zilch to do with other peoples families in Thailand or their own country.

Very much agree, and my experiences are similar.

Thai families are often closer in terms of physical proximity.

Closeness in relationships is not measured by miles

Edited May 10, 2010 by fletchsmile

[fletchsmile]

ok Boo, you tell me that people in the west ( and North America in particular ) have the same family values as in Thailand. When i see young people like yourself and others looking after their parents in old age IN THEIR HOMES, rather than shuffling them off to an " old age ", or residents home, then your argument will have the veracity you desire... will you look after your parents when they are infirm.. in YOUR HOME??

Well of course it's a case of economics isn't it? If Thailand had a system of old people's homes ( which it doesn't) how many Thais could actually afford to have their parents stay in one if the cost was proportionate to the west?

The same with the old adage of the close Thai family all living together. Again, a huge number of low wage earners simply can't afford any other option. Their salary simply goes on the basics of living hand to mouth every month. Nothing to do with family values in my humble opinion.

Probably not a black and white call either way, but the fact that large numbers of relatively well to do and wealthy Thais also take care of their parents and often grandparents would suggest that it's not simply economics. Although I'm sure the cynics would say 'heck, of course so you can make sure you can a piece of that inheritance!'

I'm sure the cynics would also point out that the large number of relatively well to do and wealthy Thais taking care of their parents usually also have a maid or three....

[Boo]

exactly my point fletchsmile, families in thailand tend to have to get along as they are all living under the same roof or village, to not make a show of harmony would cause a huge explosion but seething resentment does exists & behind the back bitching is also common I have found.

[Boo]

and just to clarify I am not suggesting this is the case in all families but just to give examples of where not everything is as it seems on the surface to the casual observer