Clashes Continue, Turning Central Bangkok In Virtual Warzone

[yoshiwara]

MCOTEnglishnews: Red Shirt leaders urge government to revoke Emergency Decree, PM to resign; Clashes at Bon Kai, Sala Daeng intersections continue

Back to the original Thaksin demands.

Kicking off the current violence was the best way for Thaksin to re-assert central direction of the red movement.

Getting his ducks back in a row.

Edited May 14, 2010 by yoshiwara

[4223rhodes]

Why doe they have to disperse a crowd with live ammunition? I've seen several time hooligans being dispersed with a water canon.

Why do these clashes always have to be so bloody and cause so many casualty's?

Because the red insurgents are using LETHAL weapons, that's why. Duh.

The Abhisit's thugs use live ammunition because they have a history of hanging protesters from trees and using many other forms of intimidation besides Abhisit's main tactic of suppression of free thinking by mass censorship. It is no coincidence that Abhisit's thugs have targeted journalists.

If you go out on Rama 4, where I just came back you will see that the Reds attack the Soldiers and police...they burn tyres, throw molotov cocktails and shoot rockets directly at them!!! Soldiers shoot in the air first, but then live...WHAT DO YOU EXPECT!! Reds are out to kill them!

Abhisit's thugs have killed over 30 protesters thus far. This tends to bring out a bit of anger in the democracy protesters. It really isn't that much of a mystery.

[deepskyfreak]

Soon we will have UDD protesters in every part of Thailand, not only Ratchaprasong and Silom.

I have just returned this minute from a very unwise trip to Pratunam. The whole main road seemed to be a 'no mans land'. As we departed some razor wire barricades near the new train station were being dismantled and then there was tear gas and gunfire. I noticed that behind police/army lines, some people were breaking up paving slabs, I can't think they were red shirts, and it leads me to think there is a counter mob of some sort.

We have to clearly distinguish between the rural people who were hopeful that the UDD protest would bring about change and an improvement for their lives, and the thugs who rule the streets now. I believe that the departure of "soft-line" UDD leaders clearly shows that the hardline core has gone too far astray. Men who collect paving slabs and brainlessly destroy fire engines, smash cars and windows are not protesters who want a goverment change. They don't even know the meaning of government. Looting will be the next thing we will see, then martial law and orders to shoot looters with live ammo. The death toll will be dozens, if not hundreds. All because some UDD leaders did not want reconciliation and elections in November. Congratulations. Now even Thaksin (don't forget that he is a criminal fugitive!) calls for reconciliation. Chavalit calls for talks and shakes hands again wth Prem. They miht be old, but they have enourmous influence and backing.

I hope that the UDD hardliners wake up and don't try to sacrifice women, children, elderly for the sake of saving face. If not, then let the slaughter go ahead. Bad thing: The military boys are young, inexperienced and scared. They will shoot anyone who is moving. They do not have the knowledge and capability to pick out the real thugs and trouble-makers. It would need special forces to arrest the leaders, even if it costs the lives of some their thug guards. The UDD ad the chance to act constructive - they did not want to. Sad for Thailand.

[LuckyLew]

Why doe they have to disperse a crowd with live ammunition? I've seen several time hooligans being dispersed with a water canon.

Why do these clashes always have to be so bloody and cause so many casualty's?

Because the red insurgents are using LETHAL weapons, that's why. Duh.

The Abhisit's thugs use live ammunition because they have a history of hanging protesters from trees and using many other forms of intimidation besides Abhisit's main tactic of suppression of free thinking by mass censorship. It is no coincidence that Abhisit's thugs have targeted journalists.

And how did your leader TS treat the people in the south?

Army now using live ammo because they are being shot at,

have grenades, cocktails tossed at them

You do not take a stick to a gun fight

[rabo]

Why doe they have to disperse a crowd with live ammunition? I've seen several time hooligans being dispersed with a water canon.

Why do these clashes always have to be so bloody and cause so many casualty's?

Because the red insurgents are using LETHAL weapons, that's why. Duh.

The Abhisit's thugs use live ammunition because they have a history of hanging protesters from trees and using many other forms of intimidation besides Abhisit's main tactic of suppression of free thinking by mass censorship. It is no coincidence that Abhisit's thugs have targeted journalists.

PLEASE PROVIDE EVIDENCE THAT ABHISIT HAS EVER HUNG A PROTESTER FROM A TREE.

[bushke]

Why doe they have to disperse a crowd with live ammunition? I've seen several time hooligans being dispersed with a water canon.

Why do these clashes always have to be so bloody and cause so many casualty's?

Because the red insurgents are using LETHAL weapons, that's why. Duh.

Water cannon is armored duh...

Beside this there are enough non lethal measures that can be applied. Ever heard of high frequency tone speakers, teargas, rubber bullets...

[chadintheusa]

Why doe they have to disperse a crowd with live ammunition? I've seen several time hooligans being dispersed with a water canon.

Why do these clashes always have to be so bloody and cause so many casualty's?

Because the red insurgents are using LETHAL weapons, that's why. Duh.

The Abhisit's thugs use live ammunition because they have a history of hanging protesters from trees and using many other forms of intimidation besides Abhisit's main tactic of suppression of free thinking by mass censorship. It is no coincidence that Abhisit's thugs have targeted journalists.

Simply because the protesters are armed and fighting with them. Water won't make them go home. When journalists wander around like they are bulletproof it gets hard to protect them when they are surrounded by combatants also wearing helmets with no identifiable uniform. Under fire can you be certain you could always spot the arm band? Where is the proof of protesters being hung from trees, or is it just a baseless accusation?

[LivinLOS]

The reds do have significant support. However, they clearly do not have the majority of Thais. Which makes their cynical attempt to create a red dictatorship through violence even more abhorrent.

Perhaps you can explain why the last 4 elections have been red majorities then ??

It took a disbanding of the TRT, banning of its representatives, and a lot of backroom dealing and turn coats to make the coalition..

Wonder if the Democrats will be barred from the next election because of their illegal contributions ???

[LivinLOS]

Why doe they have to disperse a crowd with live ammunition? I've seen several time hooligans being dispersed with a water canon.

Why do these clashes always have to be so bloody and cause so many casualty's?

Because the red insurgents are using LETHAL weapons, that's why. Duh.

What some bang fai rockets and sling shots ??

The gunfire is a little one sided no ??

[neverdie]

As for the FARANG tourists that you seem to dislike so much- they prop up the economy in this country, without them the economy will crash imo.

You seem to thing that Tourism is the main source of income for thais. Its not. Remove yourself from Tourist Thailand and go check the rest of it out......tourist schmourist.

Try to think past sexpats going to Pattaya, tourists come from all over the world, go to all parts of the country, and come for all sorts of reasons (e.g., medical tourists).

Tourism and industries supporting tourism and the money from it account for a significant part of the Thai economy. The knock on effect of reduced tourism in supporting industries is potentially devastating, from the guy who sells diesel to people running the laundry service to those that fit mosquito screens in serviced apartments. It effects everyone.

Sorry Dob, I don't doubt what you are saying & understand exactly that, but the original post I commented on made it sound like Thailand was doomed without tourism & whilst selected parts of it definately are and other areas will be affected to a lesser extent, there are great proportions of the country that don't rely on it, much at all.

There are probably greater risks to the Thai economy in other non-tourism related fields that are being damaged every day this drags out & potentially if some of those multi-corps or industries pull out of Thailand & set up in friendlier waters....so to speak.

Overall the combined effect will be the one that ends up hurting the most-BUT it just aint so that if tourists stop coming here the economy will TUMBLE - there is much more to Thailand than just tourism.

[Jingthing]

The reds do have significant support. However, they clearly do not have the majority of Thais. Which makes their cynical attempt to create a red dictatorship through violence even more abhorrent.

Perhaps you can explain why the last 4 elections have been red majorities then ??

That's false information. Try again when you have the FACTS. Next ...

[hammered]

MCOTEnglishnews: Red Shirt leaders urge government to revoke Emergency Decree, PM to resign; Clashes at Bon Kai, Sala Daeng intersections continue

Back to the original Thaksin demands.

Kicking off the current violence was the best way for Thaksin to re-assert direction of the red movement.

Getting his ducks back in a row.

As Sae Daeng confirmed before his untimely shooting, Thaksin cannot have a deal done on any terms other than his own and doesnt want the rally to end. If it does he has lost and this is now all about him. If the rally falls apart leaders will run or be jailed and with sympathy for the reds at record lows it will be impossible to put it all back together quickly. That would be disaster for Thaksin. The principled red leaders have diappeared or like the red siam dudes criticized the reds for setting back peoples demands for years by their three mistakes. This is Thaksin's last stand. It will be messy. Will he prevail though?

[4223rhodes]

Why doe they have to disperse a crowd with live ammunition? I've seen several time hooligans being dispersed with a water canon.

Why do these clashes always have to be so bloody and cause so many casualty's?

Because the red insurgents are using LETHAL weapons, that's why. Duh.

The Abhisit's thugs use live ammunition because they have a history of hanging protesters from trees and using many other forms of intimidation besides Abhisit's main tactic of suppression of free thinking by mass censorship. It is no coincidence that Abhisit's thugs have targeted journalists.

PLEASE PROVIDE EVIDENCE THAT ABHISIT HAS EVER HUNG A PROTESTER FROM A TREE.

Please read carefully with calm emotion that promotes comprehension.

[ChiangMaiFun]

The reds do have significant support. However, they clearly do not have the majority of Thais. Which makes their cynical attempt to create a red dictatorship through violence even more abhorrent.

we don't know the level of support UNTIL elections - if Abhisit had some backbone he would stick to the roadmap - not change or withdraw the date - just shows he's reacting and not LEADING.

edit: spl.

Edited May 14, 2010 by ChiangMaiFun

[LuckyLew]

Abhisit's thugs have killed over 30 protesters thus far. This tends to bring out a bit of anger in the democracy protesters. It really isn't that much of a mystery.

You really are having a laugh, still calling this a democracy protest

You cannot be silly enough to still believe that ............ can you?

It is terrorists trying to bring back their leader .. plain and simple

[yoshiwara]

Abhisit's thugs have killed over 30 protesters thus far. This tends to bring out a bit of anger in the democracy protesters. It really isn't that much of a mystery.

I think a typo error there.

Seh Daeng's blackshirts were in the driving seat.

Wouldn't you just like to shake the 'thug' label from your red friends.

Making a poor fist of it though.

[chadintheusa]

THE NATION: Natthawut announced Thailand will see big tragedy tonight if PM Abhisit does not dissolve House immediately and pull out troops.

Natthawut is free to dissolve his protest and spare Thailand the tragedy, guess those lives aren't worth him saving. Why would criminals be issuing conditions for the police and army? The tragedy is what the reds want, otherwise they would have taken the elections instead.

15 minutes to go, then they can all stop and sing the National anthem, then resume fighting.

Edited May 14, 2010 by chadintheusa

[Jingthing]

The reds do have significant support. However, they clearly do not have the majority of Thais. Which makes their cynical attempt to create a red dictatorship through violence even more abhorrent.

we do0n't know the level of support UNTIL elections - if Abhisit had some backbone he would stick to the roadmap - not change or withdraw the date - just shows he's reacting and not LEADING.

It is the REDS that broke the roadmap. Try again. Next ...

[LuckyLew]

The reds do have significant support. However, they clearly do not have the majority of Thais. Which makes their cynical attempt to create a red dictatorship through violence even more abhorrent.

we do0n't know the level of support UNTIL elections - if Abhisit had some backbone he would stick to the roadmap - not change or withdraw the date - just shows he's reacting and not LEADING.

Hw was more than happy to compromise and offered the road map

It has been flatly refused by red shirt terrorists

[Jingthing]

THE NATION: Natthawut announced Thailand will see big tragedy tonight if PM Abhisit does not dissolve House immediately and pull out troops.

Natthawut is free to dissolve his protest and spare Thailand the tragedy, guess those lives aren't worth him saving. Why would criminals be issuing conditions for the police and army? The tragedy is what the reds want, otherwise they would have taken the elections instead.

Indeed.

Edited May 14, 2010 by Jingthing

[earthpig]

The crowds at Rachaprasong last night around midnight were very large, very sombre, and very determined.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZaZVao3mVI

But the biggest change evident compared to previous visits was the number of black shirts, mostly in Lumpini around the rama 6 statue and alongside the park on the road going back to RatchaP. It was pitch black down there, but I estimated around 20-40 squad size units around 1 to 2 am, this in addition to black shirts elsewhere in the encampment.

No question that many of these fellows are Army, right down to their regulation army boots. It would appear that army desertions are increasing. They have military bearing and discipline. Their positions were taking fire from snipers in chula but no panic. Noncoms were providing effective leadership, and very careful of their men (and not a few ladies too) which they have to be because they footsoldiers are extremely fired up. even when grenades went off (no idea who was responsible) there was no panic. very professional.

this is not a political comment on the reds. i favor neither side. i simply warn that what i have seen of red militant formations--apparent leadership, dedication, training-it all appears fomidable. the big unaswered question is armaments and i have no idea what they have. i will say that one rifle discharge last night really seemed much too close to be coming from anywhere but inside the barricades, but i cannot be absolutely sure due to building ricochet effects.

as long as Red numbers stay high, it is impossible to believe that the Army High command will authorize an invasion of RatchaP. With the reds holding the flanks and high postions in tall buildings the army would sustain untterly unstainable casualties, particularly for a force divided. in addition, flushing armed reds out of high perches requires substantial rockets, helo based fire, and even direct fire arty. if you sent in Marines they could take it yes, but at very high cost and nobody would reconginze the place when they were done. and the number of dead on both sides would be terrible. thats US marines or any other top of the line combat formation experienced in urban combat.

send in thai army with its sympathies with the red and there is just no way at all many of the conscripts would keep fighting . thai high command know this. this is not a negative comment at all on the thai army. soldiers are human beings. they dont want to fight their kin.

an invasion of RatchaP is not going to happen as long as red numbers stay hi. in fact, the risk is exactly reversed.

the army must beware of the reds. im not sure they are a match for well trained men willing to die. clashes between army and reds will not be to the army's favor i fear.

the shooting of Red Leader has changed the tenor of this conflict. It is no longer a protest, but rather has become an armed rebellion. No way was the assassination attempt authorized by Abhisit. This was brought to thailand by the same people who brought us april 10.

i'd sure like to know who they are.

[haroldc]

Why doe they have to disperse a crowd with live ammunition? I've seen several time hooligans being dispersed with a water canon.

Why do these clashes always have to be so bloody and cause so many casualty's?

Because the red insurgents are using LETHAL weapons, that's why. Duh.

The Abhisit's thugs use live ammunition because they have a history of hanging protesters from trees and using many other forms of intimidation besides Abhisit's main tactic of suppression of free thinking by mass censorship. It is no coincidence that Abhisit's thugs have targeted journalists.

I have just put you on my ignore list as reading your absurd invective is a total waste of bandwidth.

[jdinasia]

Please don't believe this rubbish - I would say nearly half the country (we don't know until elections for sure) are probably red - disgusted that they have a government with no mandate and want one simple thing - a chance to VOTE.

You would base this on your 2 years in Thailand? The 2007 elections don't support those nubers even before Newin and other left the Thaksin coalition. That was before the reds started protesting for the return of Thaksin and detsroying the Thai economy. That was before 3 violent protests by the reds etc .... Even Isaan isn't firmly behind the reds any more though it may vote that way in the future.

[siampolee]

THE NATION: Natthawut announced Thailand will see big tragedy tonight if PM Abhisit does not dissolve House immediately and pull out troops.

Well what is he( Natthawut ) going to do, lead brothers 1-4 to form a new Maoist communist regime modelled on the Pol Port regime which is their inspiration as their constant hate rhetoric shows ?

If the so called Red Shirt Brigade leaders had a pair of prairie oysters between them I would indeed be surprised.

No doubt the cowards who lead from the back of the Red Shirt Brigade will of course push the women and children in front of them so as to save their own worthless cowardly skins.

THAKSINS THUGS ARE INDEED THE EPITOME OF COWARDS THE WORLD OVER.

Edited May 14, 2010 by siampolee

[whybother]

The reds do have significant support. However, they clearly do not have the majority of Thais. Which makes their cynical attempt to create a red dictatorship through violence even more abhorrent.

Perhaps you can explain why the last 4 elections have been red majorities then ??

It took a disbanding of the TRT, banning of its representatives, and a lot of backroom dealing and turn coats to make the coalition..

Wonder if the Democrats will be barred from the next election because of their illegal contributions ???

You should check your sources. The last election (2007) was clearly NOT a red majority (PPP got 40% of the vote). The 2006 election was invalidated because of Election commission irregularities and incomplete results (Thaksin couldn't get 20% of the vote where there was no opposition). The 2005 election, Thaksin bought all the smaller parties before the election. In 2001 Thaksin also needed a coalition.

[ChiangMaiFun]

The reds do have significant support. However, they clearly do not have the majority of Thais. Which makes their cynical attempt to create a red dictatorship through violence even more abhorrent.

we do0n't know the level of support UNTIL elections - if Abhisit had some backbone he would stick to the roadmap - not change or withdraw the date - just shows he's reacting and not LEADING.

It is the REDS that broke the roadmap. Try again. Next ...

Reacting like a second rate leader... not leading...next...

[yoshiwara]

THE NATION: Natthawut announced Thailand will see big tragedy tonight if PM Abhisit does not dissolve House immediately and pull out troops.

Natthawut is free to dissolve his protest and spare Thailand the tragedy, guess those lives aren't worth him saving. Why would criminals be issuing conditions for the police and army? The tragedy is what the reds want, otherwise they would have taken the elections instead.

I'm confused, are you implying that the police and army aren't criminals? Really?

You're not confused.

You are just having trouble putting together your Thaksin apologist agenda on this forum.

[hammered]

THE NATION: Natthawut announced Thailand will see big tragedy tonight if PM Abhisit does not dissolve House immediately and pull out troops.

Natthawut is free to dissolve his protest and spare Thailand the tragedy, guess those lives aren't worth him saving. Why would criminals be issuing conditions for the police and army? The tragedy is what the reds want, otherwise they would have taken the elections instead.

15 minutes to go, then they can all stop and sing the National anthem, then resume fighting.

Natttawut is usually a clever speaker. This shows signs of panic or loss of control compared to his usual stuff. It is back to the old demand but with any moral highground gone compared to previously. It smacks of desperation unless they have a plan nobody knows of. Maybe Thaksin is calling in every favour and the situation will turn around. Maybe not

[jazzyfrosty]

Totally agree Scouse, a very sad time indeed for Thailand, I was in BKK in 1992 & witnessed some horrific scenes then by the Royal Hotel, but the demonstrators then were unarmed and non-violent, with a tight group led by Chamlong on hunger strike, the Army were much stronger and ruthless then.

However today they aren't such a brutal force and have given the Reds ample time to disperse peacefully.

Abhisit has tried negotiating on Live TV for hours, offered what most backed as a resonable reconciliation package & yet evertime the Red elite demanded more & more, until you have no choice but to get BKK back to normal & clear out mob rule once & for all!

Never thought this country would come to this & hope those selfish egotistical Red elite, supported by the convicted criminal, using the poor, honest, ordinary Red supporters will see sense soon & call for a truce & allow their followers to desperse peacefully.....

[neverdie]

As for the FARANG tourists that you seem to dislike so much- they prop up the economy in this country, without them the economy will crash imo.

You seem to thing that Tourism is the main source of income for thais. Its not. Remove yourself from Tourist Thailand and go check the rest of it out......tourist schmourist.

As i stated above i have and still do get out and see Thailand, as for tourist area's - i don't live in one. Do you understand anything about economics? Because if your capital city and economic centre crashes so does the country, who do you think will suffer most if that happens??? The elite and the army, NO it will be the poor people of rural thailand who suffer first and suffer the most. Tourism brings a huge amount of money into the Thai economy, NOTICE i use the word ECONOMY, because without an economy the country will fail not just Bangkok. Check the official government figures, they are online, even from Thaksins time. If the tourists go, the Farang that live here wont be far behind, is that what you want???? No one but thai's in thailand? "we all hate tourists and farang"???? Sounds very much like the point of view an Austrian bloke had in 1939!!. If you'd actually read my post you'd know a lot of my friends are very poor and NOT from tourist Thailand, they dont support the reds at all, are they all wrong??? Will you kick them out of thailand with the farang and tourists if you get your way?????

Rant over...

You are being very alarmist. I understand economics quite well, although I wouldnt class myself as an economist .

You are taking massive leaps from a STRONG thai economy to one that FAILS instantly as 'tourism' levels plumet. As I said in a previous post theres a whole lot more to the thai economy than tourism.

Can you please show me where you get your data that indicates the Thai economy going from its very strong position it has had throughout the WFC to the doom and gloom you are reporting now?

Also, please note, I won't be kicking anyone out of Thailand or jumping up and down yelling out stuff about the sky is falling.