More Bloodshed In Bangkok As Red Siege Continues

[rametindallas]

Amsterdam a prize WALLY if I ever saw one.

Inarticulate uninformed con man of a lawyer who is actually screwing Thaksin.

Keep it up cretin

Considering what he did for thew russina mafia he had it habded to him by the al jazeera woman. Amazing. He is meant to be one of the wporlds top spin doctors and that is why thaksin employed him. Disastrous start by him

Another idiot ( Not realy as he is racking in the $$$) but another despicable person as bad as the arrogant and paid off CNN and BBC reporters .... this is what is is controlling our world right now ..... Shit disgusting people !!!

Yeah, I would call him a whore but I have more respect for whores than that

[annabel]

I have had a lovely time reading your opinions. I shall be here again tomorrow. Sorry if you do not like my opinions and I am slow at writing back, but we are a divided nation. I live in Yala, but my family is in Udonthani and my opinions reflect this.

Please do not think I am bad, but my family did get great benefit from Dr. Thaksin. I know he did wrong in other areas, but in Udon we had chances we never had before. Please understand...

Seangthong.

Are you mocking me? Is your Western (I assume) knowledge greater than mine?

This is all a bit new to me.

LOL

Ok, all of you out TV Masters out there just shut up one minute and give the guy a chance instead of jumping on him as I also did .... give people a break sometimes ...!!! Is that too much to ask from you TV masters of the world ???

Ok, Seangthong, what was impoved in your area of Udonthani and what exactly where the benefits you had from Dr. Thaksin and what chances did he give you all that you never had before. Please explain so these vampires don't jump down your throat and bleed you to death ....

TV out there ,.... GIVE THE GUY A CHANCE !!! I THINK HE IS AN INNOCENT GUY TRYING TO SAY HIS SIDE OF THE STORY OF HOW PROBABLY 90% OF THE REAL POOR VILLAGERS ARE TRYING TO SAY ... So take breath and let him TALK!!!!!

[rametindallas]

It's strange how the international media always seem to leave out the 'Thaksin link' when they report on this. It's such an important piece in the puzzle that to me it even feels suspicious that they don't mention this, almost like he's greased a few palms in the west (oh it does happen!). Instead they talk about the 'rural poor' versus the 'elite', and associate the word democracy with the very people who ruin the very idea by happily selling their vote fot the price of a couple of beers!

I think that the bbc/cnn and the rest of these 'non-biased' organisations should get to the real truth which is far more interesting than the story which they're currently reporting.

Why don't they ask the red shirts how much they're getting paid? Ask them why they think Thaksin is so great and what he could do for the country should he return. Ask them how they think that Thaksin, as a convicted criminal, could possibly plan to be taken seriously by the international community, should he manage to bully his way back into office.

Ask them why they are using women and children as a human shield.

Ask them why they risk their lives for a greedy evil billionaire?

Why can't the press get an interview with Thaksin? A few well placed questions will simply destroy him.

Why don't the international media do their job rather than appearing to be the heroes in the danger zone, reporting alongside the red-shirt 'freedom fighters'?

My point? It appears that Thaksin has more than just a few red-shirts in his back pocket!!!

I think it's true what you say; that Thaksin is a link in all of this, but come on really, if you say its all him then I think you are really underestimating the Thais. There is much more at work here. So much to take into account. I'm sure many people who have worked in public or Thai schools can give much insight into education here, both for the rich and poor. The division of wealth that keeps getting bigger. The attitudes of the priveleged here towards poor people, issaan people, dark people etc. The glue that has kept people together for so long eroding with no hope for something to replace it. Put all these things together in the usual Thai style and this is what youve got. I can only speculate on what is to come, but for god's sakes I hope it gets better.

If I push a few strategic rocks and cause an avalanche that kills people, can I just say the avalanche did it and that I am innocent of those deaths because all I did was push a few rocks?

If Dr. Taksin had not 'pushed a few rocks' none on this death, disruption, and destruction would have occured IMHO.

[daboyz1]

And being a Canadian myself brings nothing but total embarassment to me and wants to make me vomit ... Oye what a scum and even that word is not strong enough to describe what he is .... Yuk!!! Yuk!!! Yuk!!!

Great Interview right from the first question and answer w/Thaksin Lawyer

Laugh. So one of Thaksin's cronies went into this guy's office with bag of cash. He went online looked at a few wikipedia pages and maybe some bangkokpost and nation articles. Then he gos on BBC. He obviously doesn't have a clue.

I wish I went to law school. Then I could make piles of money representing criminals, and then going on TV and pretending I know what I'm talking about.

The UN statement. That's even funnier. I seem to remember someone saying "The UN is not my father" Seems like he's running to daddy now. I noticed he brushed off the "war on drugs" I wish she would have brought up Tak Bai and Krue Se, but oh well. Even the Ractahdaphisek land deal. There's so many Thaksin scandals, I can't keep up with them all.

I don't really see how any person with a normal thought process can't see Thaksin for what he is. A power hungry man who wants his money and power back, and couldn't give a $hit about anyone in Isaan.

[daboyz1]

Amsterdam a prize WALLY if I ever saw one.

Inarticulate uninformed con man of a lawyer who is actually screwing Thaksin.

Keep it up cretin

Considering what he did for thew russina mafia he had it habded to him by the al jazeera woman. Amazing. He is meant to be one of the wporlds top spin doctors and that is why thaksin employed him. Disastrous start by him

Another idiot ( Not realy as he is racking in the $$) but another despicable person as bad as the arrogant and paid off CNN and BBC reporters .... this is what is is controlling our world right now ..... Shit disgusting people !!!

Yeah, I would call him a whore but I have more respect for whores than that

[annabel]

I order the moderators and all boardmember to close this thread by 3 a.m.

After that anybody posting will be deemed terrorist under International law of bullshit...

You lack the authority to pass this law or to enforce ... either way this would make you impotent.

Now if you think about this logic then you will understand the true Red motives and why they have done all they could to instigate the government to use force and then cry foul they must resign for using force and losing control.

Firstly it was a joke but since u have ur **** ** ** ** *** ... allow me to explain... and keep it civil next time pls..

It would make me impotent it I had the authority but I fail to enforce the law...

Secondly ... Reds have weapons, Reds are violent, Reds are Killing people, Reds this Reds that...... they are still holding the centre of the city for more than 2 months now... What is actually govt is doing ... what if they never go back.. what if they are here till next songkran...... who's impotent thn..

Why govt is so worried about how they would look in people eyes.... they have said these people are terrorist.... i can't believe a govt in this world allowing 5000 + terrorist in the center of the city running their daily chores without a fuss ...

The govt also know that this can't be solved with power ... only way is negotiations...

I agree with you all the way... why should they worry about how they would look to the world when far more atrocities have hapened and nobody in the world did anything to stop it or interfere unless there was oil (Black Gold involved) ??.. They (Thai Government) should have stooped this 2 months ago!! No country in the world would tolerate Terrorists this long ... so what is wrong in this picture???... No oil , no stategic point for anybody involved in controlling the world except for organisations like CNN and BBC who are raking in $$$$ From Mr. T....Pff.... the whole world is upside down an d drowning in lush of power and $$$ and control ....

[annabel]

And being a Canadian myself brings nothing but total embarassment to me and wants to make me vomit ... Oye what a scum and even that word is not strong enough to describe what he is .... Yuk!!! Yuk!!! Yuk!!!

Great Interview right from the first question and answer w/Thaksin Lawyer

Laugh. So one of Thaksin's cronies went into this guy's office with bag of cash. He went online looked at a few wikipedia pages and maybe some bangkokpost and nation articles. Then he gos on BBC. He obviously doesn't have a clue.

I wish I went to law school. Then I could make piles of money representing criminals, and then going on TV and pretending I know what I'm talking about.

The UN statement. That's even funnier. I seem to remember someone saying "The UN is not my father" Seems like he's running to daddy now. I noticed he brushed off the "war on drugs" I wish she would have brought up Tak Bai and Krue Se, but oh well. Even the Ractahdaphisek land deal. There's so many Thaksin scandals, I can't keep up with them all.

I don't really see how any person with a normal thought process can't see Thaksin for what he is. A power hungry man who wants his money and power back, and couldn't give a $hit about anyone in Isaan.

She was cool ..... I just wish she would have been more agressive and laced into him a little / a lot more like a Larry King would have done or what's her name ...?? Umm I forget t now but she was very popular and always nailed them down (no I agree we don't want a Larry King either as he is pro CNN but just for an example of forcefull tactics

)... ouf , I would have loved to be the one interviewing him ,.....

[daboyz1]

You can bet if this was the other way around and Thaksin was PM. If the Yellows did something like this, it would be over in a day with hundreds if not thousands dead.

[BNZ]

And being a Canadian myself brings nothing but total embarassment to me and wants to make me vomit ... Oye what a scum and even that word is not strong enough to describe what he is .... Yuk!!! Yuk!!! Yuk!!!

Great Interview right from the first question and answer w/Thaksin Lawyer

Laugh. So one of Thaksin's cronies went into this guy's office with bag of cash. He went online looked at a few wikipedia pages and maybe some bangkokpost and nation articles. Then he gos on BBC. He obviously doesn't have a clue.

I wish I went to law school. Then I could make piles of money representing criminals, and then going on TV and pretending I know what I'm talking about.

The UN statement. That's even funnier. I seem to remember someone saying "The UN is not my father" Seems like he's running to daddy now. I noticed he brushed off the "war on drugs" I wish she would have brought up Tak Bai and Krue Se, but oh well. Even the Ractahdaphisek land deal. There's so many Thaksin scandals, I can't keep up with them all.

I don't really see how any person with a normal thought process can't see Thaksin for what he is. A power hungry man who wants his money and power back, and couldn't give a $hit about anyone in Isaan.

I'd hire the interviewer as my lawyer !

She was sharp, articulate, displayed a keen mind and thought on her feet.

Attributes a lawyer should have.

He was embarrassingly reamed.   

[jcbangkok]

I have to wonder why he has this Canadian lawyer speaking for him? The countries he is residing and playing in have largely told him to keep his mouth shut when it comes to Thailand so that is a given. But I wonder if he chose a Canadian lawyer in terms of Canada in terms of it not facing scorn from Thailand for interferring in Thai politics. I mean it is one thing to hire a lawyer but another to have that lawyer go on TV to promote your political cause in a country you are wanted and banned from politics when you are accused of causing civil unrest that has resulted in numerous deaths.

Part of what makes me wonder too is I would think there would be more qualified lawyers in the US. No slam to Canada but the US is known for its lawyers and international problems ... as well as its high profile criminals.

What is Canada's standing with Thailand? Trade partners?

Edited May 18, 2010 by jcbangkok

[VictorMeldrewBKK]

video showing red shirt weapons and violence

Keep getting comments that pictures were from last year ! No actually they are from last few months and so what?

What are you implying? Reds shirts acted bad last year, but was last year so don't count?

If you want to go back further than this year to get off the hook that’s not going to work.

Because if you knew anything about this Thaksin red shirt plague you wouldn’t want to discuss their earlier antics.

Yes that’s right thay haven’t just turned up, they been terrorizing for years.

And I for one cannot forget about Grandma Niew.

She was an elderly Ubon Ratchathani resident cited by Abhisit in one of his early speeches as PM.

She had previously given Abhisit a small gold ring as a gift in 2007.

She became a lightning rod for conflict as red shirts attempted to disrupt her highly publicized meetings with the PM.

At one point, red shirts broke into her intensive care hospital room before she died to berate her for her friendly attitude to the PM.

Before going into a coma, she told her children to grind rice to welcome Abhisit, on learning he would visit her.

But when reports about Abhisit's plan to visit her spread, 200 red shirt anti-government protesters surrounded the hospital.

Abhisit phoned Grandma Niam when she was on a life support system and being given food through a tube in an intensive care unit.

He talked to her through a speaker on the phone, wishing to communicate with her for the last time.

Funny these red sympathizers don't make any comments regarding the mindless violence pictured in this video by so called peaceful demonstrators.

And they want to defend the likes of these?

Edited May 18, 2010 by VictorMeldrewBKK

[jcbangkok]

But a group of five senators, led by Senator Lertrat Ratanavanich, visited the Rajprasong stage early in the evening and managed to convince the leaders to agree to a unilateral cease-fire to immediately kick-start the peace process. When Lertrat announced the agreement to protesters, they greeted him with boos and threw articles.

Red leaders took turns to try to pacify the crowd, who still sounded very upset as they spoke. The leaders said dozens of times that their intention to "save lives" should not be interpreted as a "secret deal" with the government. "Even dogs can't do that [striking a secret deal with the government]," said Natthawut Saikua.

After spending two months portraying the Abhisit government as the worst tyrant, the leaders found out that the crowd had taken it all seriously, with emotions fuelled by the heavy casualties inflicted on the movement after four days of violence. Last night, therefore, was a make-or-break moment which would reveal if the leaders could still control the crowd or it has become an independent, unpredictable force of its own.

The defiant crowd presented another snag after Thaksin allegedly made demands that could not be met by the government. According to a government source, Thaksin, through his representatives, appeared uninterested in an early end to the red shirts' protests and riots as long as he did not get what he wanted.

"As long as Thaksin does not get what he wants, he won't let this end so easily," said the source. "His latest condition is that he wants not only amnesty in the different cases against him, but also have his passports returned. Those conditions cannot be met by the government."

[daboyz1]

You can bet if this was the other way around and Thaksin was PM. If the Yellows did something like this, it would be over in a day with hundreds if not thousands dead.

Edit: I gave this statement some more thought. I'm sure someone will come along and bring up the airport thing with the yellows, so I should mention that.

1. It was totally wrong for them to do that, and from what I read they are awaiting trial, although it seems to be taking a long time.

2. Granted they did shut down the airport, but I don't recall running gun battles in the city.

I'm not excusing what they did, but it is apples and oranges. Bringing in Somchai (Thaksin's brother in law) as PM, was incredibly stupid on the part of the PPP. Everyone knew Somchai and Samak were both proxies for Thaksin.

[Chaimai]

The defiant crowd presented another snag after Thaksin allegedly made demands that could not be met by the government. According to a government source, Thaksin, through his representatives, appeared uninterested in an early end to the red shirts' protests and riots as long as he did not get what he wanted.

Wasn't a deceased ex-general saying the same thing ?

[monkfish]

A great article in the Nation.

Have to say I am gob smacked.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/...s-30129685.html

Death toll more than just statistics

By Pravit Rojanaphruk

The Nation

Published on May 19, 2010

How many more mornings are we going to be greeted by more deaths and casualties, coldly and helplessly observing them like nothing more than statistics?

Since April 10, more than 60 people have been killed. At least 36 civilians have died since the second round of clashes erupted last Thursday night. Yesterday, the government ordered three more public holidays in Bangkok so they could get rid of the tens of thousands of protesters holding out at Rajprasong intersection and elsewhere.

Yet some Thais remain indifferent. They go about their daily business as normal, dining and chatting happily while killings continue.

In fact, those opposed to the red-shirt movement even seem to be delighted that the Army is liberally firing live bullets. Few ask where the water cannons, the tear gas, batons, anti-riot police and ear-shattering anti-riot sound disseminator vehicles that the government "promised" to use are. Why are they not being used as weapons to disperse the crowds?

A female yellow-shirt radio host at FM 97.75 station told listeners on Monday morning that 30 deaths "wasn't that much". Newspapers like ASTV-Manager Daily called for the government on Monday to finish off the enemy and urged Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva "not to lose heart".

"Please be more swift and decisive," the paper advised Abhisit.

As more people are being killed, we must acknowledge that everybody, no matter what colours they wear, have friends, relatives and loved ones.

Their loss is not just the loss of a handful, but the loss of society as a whole. Deaths beget hatred and revenge, and hatred and revenge only bring death and destruction.

It cannot be denied that the red-shirt leaders are partially responsible for the deaths of their own followers, but the government too should act more responsibly. Their decision to use war weapons instead of dialogue has already led to so many deaths.

The government, which has armed forces at its disposal, has the responsibility to protect the right to life of its citizens. It has cruelly chosen to abdicate this responsibility and people who are affected by it can no longer regard the regime as legitimate.

More people will certainly be killed in the hours ahead. We can no longer count on the wisdom of the government or the red-shirt leaders, and do what we can, as individuals and collectively, to try and end the senseless killings in Bangkok before civil war engulfs other parts of the country.

Those who believe that violently ending the protest at the Rajprasong intersection and elsewhere would solve the current political crisis should rethink. There are far too many red shirts now and the killings will only increase. The protesters' sense of camaraderie and conviction are strong enough, and even though some of their leaders like Thaksin Shinwatra and those at the Rajprasong rally stage are deeply flawed, the red shirts' aspiration for an equal political voice and more equitable social and economic opportunities are real.

On Monday night, I visited Klong Toei, where the red shirts have set up a new protest site over the past three nights. Thousands gathered there said they no longer believed in the government.

I can't see how the red shirts would simply return home and forget what has happened over the past month, especially since the comrades and loved ones they lost are not mere statistics to them.

Edited May 18, 2010 by monkfish

[rametindallas]

video showing red shirt weapons and violence

Keep getting comments that pictures were from last year ! No actually they are from last few months and so what?

What are you implying? Reds shirts acted bad last year, but was last year so don't count?

If you want to go back further than this year to get off the hook that’s not going to work.

Because if you knew anything about this Thaksin red shirt plague you wouldn’t want to discuss their earlier antics.

Yes that’s right thay haven’t just turned up, they been terrorizing for years.

And I for one cannot forget about Grandma Niew.

She was an elderly Ubon Ratchathani resident cited by Abhisit in one of his early speeches as PM.

She had previously given Abhisit a small gold ring as a gift in 2007.

She became a lightning rod for conflict as red shirts attempted to disrupt her highly publicized meetings with the PM.

At one point, red shirts broke into her intensive care hospital room before she died to berate her for her friendly attitude to the PM.

Before going into a coma, she told her children to grind rice to welcome Abhisit, on learning he would visit her.

But when reports about Abhisit's plan to visit her spread, 200 red shirt anti-government protesters surrounded the hospital.

Abhisit phoned Grandma Niam when she was on a life support system and being given food through a tube in an intensive care unit.

He talked to her through a speaker on the phone, wishing to communicate with her for the last time.

Funny these red sympathizers don't make any comments regarding the mindless violence pictured in this video by so called peaceful demonstrators.

And they want to defend the likes of these?

Thank you for sharing that story. I hope it affects some of the red-shirt supporters. The word 'fanatical' comes to mind and I can't support fanatics of any ilk.

[rametindallas]

But a group of five senators, led by Senator Lertrat Ratanavanich, visited the Rajprasong stage early in the evening and managed to convince the leaders to agree to a unilateral cease-fire to immediately kick-start the peace process. When Lertrat announced the agreement to protesters, they greeted him with boos and threw articles.

Red leaders took turns to try to pacify the crowd, who still sounded very upset as they spoke. The leaders said dozens of times that their intention to "save lives" should not be interpreted as a "secret deal" with the government. "Even dogs can't do that [striking a secret deal with the government]," said Natthawut Saikua.

After spending two months portraying the Abhisit government as the worst tyrant, the leaders found out that the crowd had taken it all seriously, with emotions fuelled by the heavy casualties inflicted on the movement after four days of violence. Last night, therefore, was a make-or-break moment which would reveal if the leaders could still control the crowd or it has become an independent, unpredictable force of its own.

The defiant crowd presented another snag after Thaksin allegedly made demands that could not be met by the government. According to a government source, Thaksin, through his representatives, appeared uninterested in an early end to the red shirts' protests and riots as long as he did not get what he wanted.

"As long as Thaksin does not get what he wants, he won't let this end so easily," said the source. "His latest condition is that he wants not only amnesty in the different cases against him, but also have his passports returned. Those conditions cannot be met by the government."

They have created 'Frankenstein's Monster' and now it is loose in the village.

[daboyz1]

A great article in the Nation.

Have to say I am gob smacked.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/...s-30129685.html

Death toll more than just statistics

By Pravit Rojanaphruk

The Nation

Published on May 19, 2010

How many more mornings are we going to be greeted by more deaths and casualties, coldly and helplessly observing them like nothing more than statistics?

Since April 10, more than 60 people have been killed. At least 36 civilians have died since the second round of clashes erupted last Thursday night. Yesterday, the government ordered three more public holidays in Bangkok so they could get rid of the tens of thousands of protesters holding out at Rajprasong intersection and elsewhere.

Yet some Thais remain indifferent. They go about their daily business as normal, dining and chatting happily while killings continue.

In fact, those opposed to the red-shirt movement even seem to be delighted that the Army is liberally firing live bullets. Few ask where the water cannons, the tear gas, batons, anti-riot police and ear-shattering anti-riot sound disseminator vehicles that the government "promised" to use are. Why are they not being used as weapons to disperse the crowds?

A female yellow-shirt radio host at FM 97.75 station told listeners on Monday morning that 30 deaths "wasn't that much". Newspapers like ASTV-Manager Daily called for the government on Monday to finish off the enemy and urged Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva "not to lose heart".

"Please be more swift and decisive," the paper advised Abhisit.

As more people are being killed, we must acknowledge that everybody, no matter what colours they wear, have friends, relatives and loved ones.

Their loss is not just the loss of a handful, but the loss of society as a whole. Deaths beget hatred and revenge, and hatred and revenge only bring death and destruction.

It cannot be denied that the red-shirt leaders are partially responsible for the deaths of their own followers, but the government too should act more responsibly. Their decision to use war weapons instead of dialogue has already led to so many deaths.

The government, which has armed forces at its disposal, has the responsibility to protect the right to life of its citizens. It has cruelly chosen to abdicate this responsibility and people who are affected by it can no longer regard the regime as legitimate.

More people will certainly be killed in the hours ahead. We can no longer count on the wisdom of the government or the red-shirt leaders, and do what we can, as individuals and collectively, to try and end the senseless killings in Bangkok before civil war engulfs other parts of the country.

Those who believe that violently ending the protest at the Rajprasong intersection and elsewhere would solve the current political crisis should rethink. There are far too many red shirts now and the killings will only increase. The protesters' sense of camaraderie and conviction are strong enough, and even though some of their leaders like Thaksin Shinwatra and those at the Rajprasong rally stage are deeply flawed, the red shirts' aspiration for an equal political voice and more equitable social and economic opportunities are real.

On Monday night, I visited Klong Toei, where the red shirts have set up a new protest site over the past three nights. Thousands gathered there said they no longer believed in the government.

I can't see how the red shirts would simply return home and forget what has happened over the past month, especially since the comrades and loved ones they lost are not mere statistics to them.

I thought the whole point of these protests were early elections? Abhisit gave them that. A year early no less. They turned it down. I'm convinced unless their dear leader is put back into power immediately, they will continue to destroy Bangkok.

[Rucharee]

A great article in the Nation.

Have to say I am gob smacked.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/...s-30129685.html

Death toll more than just statistics

By Pravit Rojanaphruk

The Nation

Published on May 19, 2010

How many more mornings are we going to be greeted by more deaths and casualties, coldly and helplessly observing them like nothing more than statistics?

Since April 10, more than 60 people have been killed. At least 36 civilians have died since the second round of clashes erupted last Thursday night. Yesterday, the government ordered three more public holidays in Bangkok so they could get rid of the tens of thousands of protesters holding out at Rajprasong intersection and elsewhere.

Yet some Thais remain indifferent. They go about their daily business as normal, dining and chatting happily while killings continue.

In fact, those opposed to the red-shirt movement even seem to be delighted that the Army is liberally firing live bullets. Few ask where the water cannons, the tear gas, batons, anti-riot police and ear-shattering anti-riot sound disseminator vehicles that the government "promised" to use are. Why are they not being used as weapons to disperse the crowds?

A female yellow-shirt radio host at FM 97.75 station told listeners on Monday morning that 30 deaths "wasn't that much". Newspapers like ASTV-Manager Daily called for the government on Monday to finish off the enemy and urged Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva "not to lose heart".

"Please be more swift and decisive," the paper advised Abhisit.

As more people are being killed, we must acknowledge that everybody, no matter what colours they wear, have friends, relatives and loved ones.

Their loss is not just the loss of a handful, but the loss of society as a whole. Deaths beget hatred and revenge, and hatred and revenge only bring death and destruction.

It cannot be denied that the red-shirt leaders are partially responsible for the deaths of their own followers, but the government too should act more responsibly. Their decision to use war weapons instead of dialogue has already led to so many deaths.

The government, which has armed forces at its disposal, has the responsibility to protect the right to life of its citizens. It has cruelly chosen to abdicate this responsibility and people who are affected by it can no longer regard the regime as legitimate.

More people will certainly be killed in the hours ahead. We can no longer count on the wisdom of the government or the red-shirt leaders, and do what we can, as individuals and collectively, to try and end the senseless killings in Bangkok before civil war engulfs other parts of the country.

Those who believe that violently ending the protest at the Rajprasong intersection and elsewhere would solve the current political crisis should rethink. There are far too many red shirts now and the killings will only increase. The protesters' sense of camaraderie and conviction are strong enough, and even though some of their leaders like Thaksin Shinwatra and those at the Rajprasong rally stage are deeply flawed, the red shirts' aspiration for an equal political voice and more equitable social and economic opportunities are real.

On Monday night, I visited Klong Toei, where the red shirts have set up a new protest site over the past three nights. Thousands gathered there said they no longer believed in the government.

I can't see how the red shirts would simply return home and forget what has happened over the past month, especially since the comrades and loved ones they lost are not mere statistics to them.

So obvious that this is a paid article by Thaksin himself.

The government MUST not give in to terrorists.

Bush once say something like: "You are either with us or with the terrorist."

The decision is yours.

Edited May 18, 2010 by Rucharee

[lilkitty]

A great article in the Nation.

Have to say I am gob smacked.

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/...s-30129685.html

Death toll more than just statistics

By Pravit Rojanaphruk

The Nation

Published on May 19, 2010

How many more mornings are we going to be greeted by more deaths and casualties, coldly and helplessly observing them like nothing more than statistics?

Since April 10, more than 60 people have been killed. At least 36 civilians have died since the second round of clashes erupted last Thursday night. Yesterday, the government ordered three more public holidays in Bangkok so they could get rid of the tens of thousands of protesters holding out at Rajprasong intersection and elsewhere.

Yet some Thais remain indifferent. They go about their daily business as normal, dining and chatting happily while killings continue.

In fact, those opposed to the red-shirt movement even seem to be delighted that the Army is liberally firing live bullets. Few ask where the water cannons, the tear gas, batons, anti-riot police and ear-shattering anti-riot sound disseminator vehicles that the government "promised" to use are. Why are they not being used as weapons to disperse the crowds?

A female yellow-shirt radio host at FM 97.75 station told listeners on Monday morning that 30 deaths "wasn't that much". Newspapers like ASTV-Manager Daily called for the government on Monday to finish off the enemy and urged Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva "not to lose heart".

"Please be more swift and decisive," the paper advised Abhisit.

As more people are being killed, we must acknowledge that everybody, no matter what colours they wear, have friends, relatives and loved ones.

Their loss is not just the loss of a handful, but the loss of society as a whole. Deaths beget hatred and revenge, and hatred and revenge only bring death and destruction.

It cannot be denied that the red-shirt leaders are partially responsible for the deaths of their own followers, but the government too should act more responsibly. Their decision to use war weapons instead of dialogue has already led to so many deaths.

The government, which has armed forces at its disposal, has the responsibility to protect the right to life of its citizens. It has cruelly chosen to abdicate this responsibility and people who are affected by it can no longer regard the regime as legitimate.

More people will certainly be killed in the hours ahead. We can no longer count on the wisdom of the government or the red-shirt leaders, and do what we can, as individuals and collectively, to try and end the senseless killings in Bangkok before civil war engulfs other parts of the country.

Those who believe that violently ending the protest at the Rajprasong intersection and elsewhere would solve the current political crisis should rethink. There are far too many red shirts now and the killings will only increase. The protesters' sense of camaraderie and conviction are strong enough, and even though some of their leaders like Thaksin Shinwatra and those at the Rajprasong rally stage are deeply flawed, the red shirts' aspiration for an equal political voice and more equitable social and economic opportunities are real.

On Monday night, I visited Klong Toei, where the red shirts have set up a new protest site over the past three nights. Thousands gathered there said they no longer believed in the government.

I can't see how the red shirts would simply return home and forget what has happened over the past month, especially since the comrades and loved ones they lost are not mere statistics to them.

So obvious that this is a paid article by Thaksin himself.

The government MUST not give in to terrorists.

Bush once say something like: "You are either with us or with the terrorist."

The decision is yours.

That article is unlikely to be paid by Thaksin. It's written by TheNation, who has so far been very anti-Thaksin and pro-Abhisit. But even the strongest Abhisit supporter should be able to see that there are far too many red shirts in Bangkok and all over Thailand. You can't just use force on people and expect them to shut up forever and play slave again.

The journalist did indeed hit the nail on the head with this article. It's time for negotiations, not violence, before it gets even worse.

And by the way, your Bush statement is ridiculous. We've all seen where that got Bush. He became arguably the worst and most hated US President of all times. Are you really suggesting Abhisit go down that path?

[Siam Simon]

But a group of five senators, led by Senator Lertrat Ratanavanich, visited the Rajprasong stage early in the evening and managed to convince the leaders to agree to a unilateral cease-fire to immediately kick-start the peace process. When Lertrat announced the agreement to protesters, they greeted him with boos and threw articles.

Red leaders took turns to try to pacify the crowd, who still sounded very upset as they spoke. The leaders said dozens of times that their intention to "save lives" should not be interpreted as a "secret deal" with the government. "Even dogs can't do that [striking a secret deal with the government]," said Natthawut Saikua.

After spending two months portraying the Abhisit government as the worst tyrant, the leaders found out that the crowd had taken it all seriously, with emotions fuelled by the heavy casualties inflicted on the movement after four days of violence. Last night, therefore, was a make-or-break moment which would reveal if the leaders could still control the crowd or it has become an independent, unpredictable force of its own.

The defiant crowd presented another snag after Thaksin allegedly made demands that could not be met by the government. According to a government source, Thaksin, through his representatives, appeared uninterested in an early end to the red shirts' protests and riots as long as he did not get what he wanted.

"As long as Thaksin does not get what he wants, he won't let this end so easily," said the source. "His latest condition is that he wants not only amnesty in the different cases against him, but also have his passports returned. Those conditions cannot be met by the government."

Congratulations! Over a thousand posts in thirty three days .

[lilkitty]

By the way, the red shirts stage at Klong Toei is not the only one. There's Din Daeng, Bon Kai and others. Whatever happened to the army "containing" and making the red shirt protests "smaller"? Their plan failed horribly. Now, instead of just the stage at Rajprasong, there are half a dozen others all around the city.

I saw the one at Ladprao today. Police officers were standing nearby, doing nothing. One officer was chatting with a red shirt that brought tyres in and they laughed and smiled together. Another police officer was busy collecting tea money from a motorbike.

[moe666]

The mindless mob has been released. This government has bent over backward to avoid deaths and injuries, it even offered the red shirts what they wanted early elections and dissolving the government, what more can they do. It has come to the point of put up or shut up by the government and they are finally putting up.

[jcbangkok]

But a group of five senators, led by Senator Lertrat Ratanavanich, visited the Rajprasong stage early in the evening and managed to convince the leaders to agree to a unilateral cease-fire to immediately kick-start the peace process. When Lertrat announced the agreement to protesters, they greeted him with boos and threw articles.

Red leaders took turns to try to pacify the crowd, who still sounded very upset as they spoke. The leaders said dozens of times that their intention to "save lives" should not be interpreted as a "secret deal" with the government. "Even dogs can't do that [striking a secret deal with the government]," said Natthawut Saikua.

After spending two months portraying the Abhisit government as the worst tyrant, the leaders found out that the crowd had taken it all seriously, with emotions fuelled by the heavy casualties inflicted on the movement after four days of violence. Last night, therefore, was a make-or-break moment which would reveal if the leaders could still control the crowd or it has become an independent, unpredictable force of its own.

The defiant crowd presented another snag after Thaksin allegedly made demands that could not be met by the government. According to a government source, Thaksin, through his representatives, appeared uninterested in an early end to the red shirts' protests and riots as long as he did not get what he wanted.

"As long as Thaksin does not get what he wants, he won't let this end so easily," said the source. "His latest condition is that he wants not only amnesty in the different cases against him, but also have his passports returned. Those conditions cannot be met by the government."

Congratulations! Over a thousand posts in thirty three days .

Thanks!!! Not sure how long I can keep up the pace but always appreciate the encouragement.

[Chaimai]

But a group of five senators, led by Senator Lertrat Ratanavanich, visited the Rajprasong stage early in the evening and managed to convince the leaders to agree to a unilateral cease-fire to immediately kick-start the peace process. When Lertrat announced the agreement to protesters, they greeted him with boos and threw articles.

Red leaders took turns to try to pacify the crowd, who still sounded very upset as they spoke. The leaders said dozens of times that their intention to "save lives" should not be interpreted as a "secret deal" with the government. "Even dogs can't do that [striking a secret deal with the government]," said Natthawut Saikua.

After spending two months portraying the Abhisit government as the worst tyrant, the leaders found out that the crowd had taken it all seriously, with emotions fuelled by the heavy casualties inflicted on the movement after four days of violence. Last night, therefore, was a make-or-break moment which would reveal if the leaders could still control the crowd or it has become an independent, unpredictable force of its own.

The defiant crowd presented another snag after Thaksin allegedly made demands that could not be met by the government. According to a government source, Thaksin, through his representatives, appeared uninterested in an early end to the red shirts' protests and riots as long as he did not get what he wanted.

"As long as Thaksin does not get what he wants, he won't let this end so easily," said the source. "His latest condition is that he wants not only amnesty in the different cases against him, but also have his passports returned. Those conditions cannot be met by the government."

Congratulations! Over a thousand posts in thirty three days .

Thanks!!! Not sure how long I can keep up the pace but always appreciate the encouragement.

Presumably sharing a computer with 'lilkitty'

[jcbangkok]

Thailand may be known for a lot of back hand / behind the door dealings but I really don't think it explains the amount of false rumors and just plain ignorance of reality by so many that has taken place the last couple months. Even in last years red uprising in April there was this much disinformation.

It is understandable that the remaining folks in the red mob have been brainwashed after weeks and months of constant hate speeches and one side updates to the situation but what of other sources?

How can anybody outside be convinced that the Thai military would want to purposely shoot unarmed civilians, children or paramedics? Are these people just easily duped by bold faced lies or are they being paid, promised things or some other way being rewarded to spread such ignorant lies?

In my mind there just can be no way a person with common sense would believe such nonsense. There is nothing the government nor the army could gain by such actions and in fact the lies being told that they are doing this is hurting them and their credibility.

Maybe it is just the internet that makes these nut cases be able to get their views out there and maybe it is some news agencies who are lazy or cutting corners by not putting actual reporters on the scene and instead just picking up on some of these sensational claims and pictures on the net.

But overall it just seems to me at the very least that the Thaksin war machine has learned many lessons about manipulating news after each one of there illegal actions over the last 3 years.

[rametindallas]

But a group of five senators, led by Senator Lertrat Ratanavanich, visited the Rajprasong stage early in the evening and managed to convince the leaders to agree to a unilateral cease-fire to immediately kick-start the peace process. When Lertrat announced the agreement to protesters, they greeted him with boos and threw articles.

Red leaders took turns to try to pacify the crowd, who still sounded very upset as they spoke. The leaders said dozens of times that their intention to "save lives" should not be interpreted as a "secret deal" with the government. "Even dogs can't do that [striking a secret deal with the government]," said Natthawut Saikua.

After spending two months portraying the Abhisit government as the worst tyrant, the leaders found out that the crowd had taken it all seriously, with emotions fuelled by the heavy casualties inflicted on the movement after four days of violence. Last night, therefore, was a make-or-break moment which would reveal if the leaders could still control the crowd or it has become an independent, unpredictable force of its own.

The defiant crowd presented another snag after Thaksin allegedly made demands that could not be met by the government. According to a government source, Thaksin, through his representatives, appeared uninterested in an early end to the red shirts' protests and riots as long as he did not get what he wanted.

"As long as Thaksin does not get what he wants, he won't let this end so easily," said the source. "His latest condition is that he wants not only amnesty in the different cases against him, but also have his passports returned. Those conditions cannot be met by the government."

Congratulations! Over a thousand posts in thirty three days .

I'm good. You may do another thousand next month

[jcbangkok]

But a group of five senators, led by Senator Lertrat Ratanavanich, visited the Rajprasong stage early in the evening and managed to convince the leaders to agree to a unilateral cease-fire to immediately kick-start the peace process. When Lertrat announced the agreement to protesters, they greeted him with boos and threw articles.

Red leaders took turns to try to pacify the crowd, who still sounded very upset as they spoke. The leaders said dozens of times that their intention to "save lives" should not be interpreted as a "secret deal" with the government. "Even dogs can't do that [striking a secret deal with the government]," said Natthawut Saikua.

After spending two months portraying the Abhisit government as the worst tyrant, the leaders found out that the crowd had taken it all seriously, with emotions fuelled by the heavy casualties inflicted on the movement after four days of violence. Last night, therefore, was a make-or-break moment which would reveal if the leaders could still control the crowd or it has become an independent, unpredictable force of its own.

The defiant crowd presented another snag after Thaksin allegedly made demands that could not be met by the government. According to a government source, Thaksin, through his representatives, appeared uninterested in an early end to the red shirts' protests and riots as long as he did not get what he wanted.

"As long as Thaksin does not get what he wants, he won't let this end so easily," said the source. "His latest condition is that he wants not only amnesty in the different cases against him, but also have his passports returned. Those conditions cannot be met by the government."

Congratulations! Over a thousand posts in thirty three days .

Thanks!!! Not sure how long I can keep up the pace but always appreciate the encouragement.

Presumably sharing a computer with 'lilkitty'

I have a hard time sharing a thread with him/her let alone a computer

Plus, I would not be able to handle his/her hogging the keyboard since he is averaging more than 10 more posts a day than me.

In all seriousness, I am shocked as somebody pointed out to me just a couple days ago that I was avg. 20 a day but obviously I have been obsessing more than I thought this last week since I raised my avg. per day to 30.

But all things must come to an end (or slow down) and I am going to have to get back to work soon as well as this crisis hopefully coming to an end soon and BKK will return to normal providing more away from keyboard experiences to enjoy,

[robert1001]

I have a hard time sharing a thread with him/her let alone a computer

Plus, I would not be able to handle his/her hogging the keyboard since he is averaging more than 10 more posts a day than me.

In all seriousness, I am shocked as somebody pointed out to me just a couple days ago that I was avg. 20 a day but obviously I have been obsessing more than I thought this last week since I raised my avg. per day to 30.

But all things must come to an end (or slow down) and I am going to have to get back to work soon as well as this crisis hopefully coming to an end soon and BKK will return to normal providing more away from keyboard experiences to enjoy,

You will be back and the fight has just begun.

But I agree with you. More than 30 minutes here is not good for anyone.

We have lives.

[bkkjames]

Anybody with updates near the protest site, thai tv showing lots of army and apc's moving up saladaeng.