Thai PM Abhisit Under Fire Over Deadly Crackdown

[MAJIC]

Well I'm pleased Abhisit will not be expecting to ride into power on the sad ripple of support generated for him by his supposed supporters on this Forum!!!

Hopefully not too many voting Thai will read the derogatory comments aimed at their own fellow citizens by the farang 'supposed' Abhisit supporters!!!

On the contrary,look at the recent polls on here and you will see by far the highest support is for the Legitimate current

Government,who have done their best to clear up this mess created by the fugitive living abroad,using his paid pawns

to further his own bid to regain power.

[Skywalker69]

Does anyone know the international standards for evicting a large mob of criminals from a barricaded section of a major city? What is done in the UK or the USA when armed terrorists occupy the streets and attack security forces? Suggesting that there is a standard method for dealing with the Thai crisis is ridiculous, when has a similar event happened anywhere else?

A similar event occured in in Thailand in 2008, when a large mob of facist criminals barricaded different sections of the city for a total of 192 days. The government response was to allow the protest to continue until the large mob of criminals got what they wanted and the protest ended.

Ummm no

In 2008 a (by far and large) peaceful group of protesters staged an illegal act of civil disobedience for a long time. It did not cripple the financial center of the city.

The Reds were told they could remain at PanFah Bridge as long as they wanted. The problem is that Thaksin needed faster action which is why they moved to try and cripple the government by both armed terrorism and financial terrorism.

And they diden´t burn the city, Survarnabhumi was up and running 2 days after the yellow left.

[MAJIC]

Come on people, time for a reality check Nes pas? Any of you that have lived and worked in Thailand for a while and traveled around a bit will know that the next election will be won by which ever party is aligned with Thaksin. I am not casting aspersions on the intelligence of the fine people of Isaan but it is a fact that they (at least the majority of them) have no access to the information sources of most of you and get to listen to the village headman waffling on every morning over the loudspeakers about the merits of Mr. Thaksin. Political campaigning in Thailand is not the same as in western countries and the people vote according to instructions from their vilage headman.

Whilst I admire the restraint and integrity displayed by Mr. Abhisit during this crisis, there is no place in Thai politics for an honest PM! Without fail polticians and their close confederates need a like minded person in the position of power so that they can continue to keep their snouts in the trough!

I dont dispute that there is a large disparity between the urban rich and the rural poor but the one man that has genuinely made an attempt to redress this imbalance through introducing some progressive policies (health, education and debt forgiveness) has NO chance of winning the next election, whenever it is held. I have great admiration for Mr. Abhisit and feel very sad for the Thai people because they will always take the 500 Baht in the pocket today rather than look at the bigger picture.

After the next election the cycle will start again and we will go through the same process of coup, coalition, protests and election with a few deaths and burned down buildings thrown into the mix.

So sad that their political system will never allow open and fair elections free of corruption and with the free flow of information being available so that the people can make an informed decision after balancing the speeches of each candidate.

Returning Thaksin's cronies to power will only perpetuate the spiral of the poor getting poorer and the rich getting richer. So sad that they cannot see that they are being exploited by the people that they think have their best interests at heart.

Rant over!!

Good well thought out Post,forgive me for saying I hope you are wrong,but sadly you may very well be correct!

[473geo]

Well I'm pleased Abhisit will not be expecting to ride into power on the sad ripple of support generated for him by his supposed supporters on this Forum!!!

Hopefully not too many voting Thai will read the derogatory comments aimed at their own fellow citizens by the farang 'supposed' Abhisit supporters!!!

On the contrary,look at the recent polls on here and you will see by far the highest support is for the Legitimate current

Government,who have done their best to clear up this mess created by the fugitive living abroad,using his paid pawns

to further his own bid to regain power.

[kissdani]

jdinasia claimed:

"Reds were directly quoted as saying they would target journalists. "

WHO, WHERE and WHEN? I am really interested to get that DIRECT QUOTE.

Do you have a link or a source?

Your question only distracts from the main issue: reds targeted journalists. Do you really want a hand-written, legalized statement with a red blob of sealing wax stamped by appropriate authorities?

As I said before, they have no interest in the facts, just to stir:

“While in theory the red shirts have surrendered and left their rally stage, one breakaway group said they will not be accepting that deal.

They warned that they will continue their fight and that they will target both Thai and foreign journalists”.

http://www.radioaustralianews.net.au/stories/201005/2904158.htm?desktop

“There were also widespread reports of the targeting of journalists, who the redshirts blame for their defeat”.

http://www.andrew-drummond.com/tag/abhisit...jiva-redshirts/

...

Jdinasia brought that claim of this direct quotes in reply to the question who shot at and who killed the journalists.

I thought he have some hot inside information and a 'smoking gun' quote for it.

But obviously not.

Rubl and you disingenuous coming up with other points.

Why bother with accuracy in details when rant about the red shirt? It is the bigger issue that counts, right? Because the reds are not so intelligent like farangs at TVF, they have to blame themselves for getting killed, right?

And if journalists are getting shot not by red shirts but someone else, the journalists have to blame themselves. When the army shot at journalist is that totally justified, understandable and excusable - according to farang experts at TVF.

[Skywalker69]

Does anyone know the international standards for evicting a large mob of criminals from a barricaded section of a major city? What is done in the UK or the USA when armed terrorists occupy the streets and attack security forces? Suggesting that there is a standard method for dealing with the Thai crisis is ridiculous, when has a similar event happened anywhere else?

But Chad dont you remember this was a peaceful rally till the army marched in. Abhisit or whoever had control stuffed it right up. They let the UDD, PT, whoever, right in the door. The traffic was still flowing it was like a carnival for many people not only the reds. That fateful night apr10 the army marched towards the protesters, no barricades. All hel_l broke loose, what a stuff up. Had the controller, Abhisit, whoever, waited for them to make a wrong move. He would be a hero,

Peacefull? In what Western Country would the government allow people to storm the parlament?

Whatch the link of "peacefull red sh*theads.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O0hsju-roFw

Hahaha the Red Shit progandists will say that in that video, the unarmed and peaceful protesters were getting attacked by the evil armed soldiers and they were just defending themselves!

Notis the soldier on the back of the truck is armed and don´t use his gun to defend himself!

[kissdani]

In the line of fire

By Nophakhun Limsamarnphun Published on May 29, 2010

Nation photographer Chaiwat Pumpuang reckons that last week's red riot in Bangkok was even more dangerous for newsmen than Afghanistan or southern Thailand

Chaiwat Pumpuang, 47, a veteran photographer for The Nation, didn't expect a potentially deadly surprise from the security forces battling anti-government protesters in Bangkok on the afternoon of May 15.

Chaiwat, who joined the paper in the mid-1980s, was on duty covering the political unrest on Rajprarob Road near the Century Hotel when he was shot in his right leg.

"Around 3pm, I and a group of 10 other TV and newspaper cameramen, including three Japanese, were following 50 to 60 red-shirt protesters along Rajprarob Road after security forces set up barricades to stop them from advancing into the city centre [and Rajprasong intersection, where the main protest site was situated].

"The situation was rather tense but I didn't expect the military to take very harsh action against the protesters. The worst came around 3.30pm when the red shirts took over a city water truck and tried to steer it across the road near Soi Rangnam as a barrier against the security forces.

"Soldiers then blew out the tyres on this truck and all hel_l broke loose. The place suddenly turned into a battlefield as I attempted to capture the scenes on my camera with a telescope lens.

"Everyone was retreating into corners to avoid live bullets from the security forces. I and a colleague from Post Today were among the last to leave the firing zone.

"Unfortunately, I was two or three steps too late, and was hit in my right upper leg, with my back next to the concrete wall of a nearby house.

"After collapsing in the street, I was left lying there for 25-30 minutes. Afterwards, the army stopped shooting and a rescue team arrived at the scene," says Chaiwat, who has covered war zones in Afghanistan and Cambodia as well as Thailand's insurgent-wracked southernmost provinces.

In his opinion, field journalists and cameramen generally ensure their own safety while covering dangerous events by choosing to stay on the "right" side of the conflict. However, such a choice was difficult in last week's Bangkok riots.

"On April 10, for instance, several soldiers were killed [by unidentified assailants] as they attempted to disperse protesters at Bangkok's Kwok Wua intersection.

"As a result, we couldn't be sure that we would be safe if we were with the security forces. We were concerned about being shot by snipers [from unknown forces], for instance.

"In other words, the Bangkok riots were tougher than Afghanistan or Cambodia or southern Thailand in terms of making the right choice for safety.

"In southern Thailand, for example, I have been there more than 10 times. Most of the time, we stay with villagers. The last time, seven soldiers were killed by a car bomb in Narathiwat. It happened about 600 metres from where I was standing.

"During a Thai-Burmese border skirmish a few years ago, we were with the Thai forces and there was no safety problem.

"This time, I mistakenly believed that the security forces wouldn't get very tough with the protesters. There were just 50 to 60 red shirts, a very small group. I couldn't believe that the soldiers would shoot non-stop like that. What happened was very fast, offensive and deadly. There was no advance signal that the army would strike that hard, especially when there were about ten cameramen in the area.

"We were just doing our duty and we couldn't see the soldiers who sprayed bullets, as they were behind their sandbags at the opposite end of the street," says Chaiwat.

-- The Nation May 29, 2010

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/...e-30130431.html

[citizen33]

The law in certain circumstances gives the government the right to shoot people. During a State of Emergency after proper warnings and whilst under attack they certainly have that right.

In the course of this discussion people have been invoking all kinds of laws and probably making up their own. I am not sure what law JD has in mind, but since the Thai Government mentioned its intention to comply with 'international standards' in controlling this protest, one must assume that it was aware of Thailand's obligations arising from signed international agreements. These would include the UN Basic Principles on the Use of Force and Firearms by Law Enforcement Officials, and probably also certain other international agreements on human rights. If the Basic Principles are followed the main criterion is immediate threat of death or serious injury (or to use another phrase 'when strictly unavoidable to preserve life'), rather than any looser formulation such as being 'under attack'. This was what was exercising Human Rights Watch and Amnesty International, and will no doubt be picked up by Thaksin's Dutch lawyer. I'm not expecting to see Ministers appearing before the ICC, but the army's compliance with the rules seems far from clear. At the extreme I wonder what happens if it were ever proved that anybody in Government ordered Seh Daeng's killing?

[rubl]

In the line of fire

By Nophakhun Limsamarnphun Published on May 29, 2010

Nation photographer Chaiwat Pumpuang reckons that last week's red riot in Bangkok was even more dangerous for newsmen than Afghanistan or southern Thailand

Chaiwat Pumpuang, 47, a veteran photographer for The Nation, didn't expect a potentially deadly surprise from the security forces battling anti-government protesters in Bangkok on the afternoon of May 15.

Chaiwat, who joined the paper in the mid-1980s, was on duty covering the political unrest on Rajprarob Road near the Century Hotel when he was shot in his right leg.

"Around 3pm, I and a group of 10 other TV and newspaper cameramen, including three Japanese, were following 50 to 60 red-shirt protesters along Rajprarob Road after security forces set up barricades to stop them from advancing into the city centre [and Rajprasong intersection, where the main protest site was situated].

"The situation was rather tense but I didn't expect the military to take very harsh action against the protesters. The worst came around 3.30pm when the red shirts took over a city water truck and tried to steer it across the road near Soi Rangnam as a barrier against the security forces.

"Soldiers then blew out the tyres on this truck and all hel_l broke loose. The place suddenly turned into a battlefield as I attempted to capture the scenes on my camera with a telescope lens.

"Everyone was retreating into corners to avoid live bullets from the security forces. I and a colleague from Post Today were among the last to leave the firing zone.

"Unfortunately, I was two or three steps too late, and was hit in my right upper leg, with my back next to the concrete wall of a nearby house.

"After collapsing in the street, I was left lying there for 25-30 minutes. Afterwards, the army stopped shooting and a rescue team arrived at the scene," says Chaiwat, who has covered war zones in Afghanistan and Cambodia as well as Thailand's insurgent-wracked southernmost provinces.

In his opinion, field journalists and cameramen generally ensure their own safety while covering dangerous events by choosing to stay on the "right" side of the conflict. However, such a choice was difficult in last week's Bangkok riots.

"On April 10, for instance, several soldiers were killed [by unidentified assailants] as they attempted to disperse protesters at Bangkok's Kwok Wua intersection.

"As a result, we couldn't be sure that we would be safe if we were with the security forces. We were concerned about being shot by snipers [from unknown forces], for instance.

"In other words, the Bangkok riots were tougher than Afghanistan or Cambodia or southern Thailand in terms of making the right choice for safety.

"In southern Thailand, for example, I have been there more than 10 times. Most of the time, we stay with villagers. The last time, seven soldiers were killed by a car bomb in Narathiwat. It happened about 600 metres from where I was standing.

"During a Thai-Burmese border skirmish a few years ago, we were with the Thai forces and there was no safety problem.

"This time, I mistakenly believed that the security forces wouldn't get very tough with the protesters. There were just 50 to 60 red shirts, a very small group. I couldn't believe that the soldiers would shoot non-stop like that. What happened was very fast, offensive and deadly. There was no advance signal that the army would strike that hard, especially when there were about ten cameramen in the area.

"We were just doing our duty and we couldn't see the soldiers who sprayed bullets, as they were behind their sandbags at the opposite end of the street," says Chaiwat.

-- The Nation May 29, 2010

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/...e-30130431.html

The main point in this article is ""On April 10, for instance, several soldiers were killed [by unidentified assailants] as they attempted to disperse protesters at Bangkok's Kwok Wua intersection." It's THEN that things got worse. And yes, those troopers were just doing their duty.

[selftaopath]

Some of the things being said in this debate are just plain stupid.

On Apr 10 PM "requested return of occupied area", Sunai says, "just like Hitler requested return of (economic) area from Jews

These comparisons of people to Hitler are quite ridiculous and a sign of immaturity on the behalf of the accusers. Is this what passes off as debate here ?

Anyone with a balanced view will know these comparisons are both unfair and inflammatory. It is sad that Thailand has people making such comments in positions of power. Can you imagine the furore if such comments were made in parliament in any developed nation ?

In Thailand, it's just par for the course. It is very sad indeed.

I was thinking along the same line; it shows educated individuals world wide how backward mindsets prevail in Lack of Sanctions (LOS). The incompetence in this country is amazing e.g. army "generals", police, politicians. Is that why some people say: Amazing Thailand?

[tracymeaw]

Abhisit has driven a wedge into Thai society that is unparalleled. Like it or not, his failure to dissolve parliament and call for new elections has launched the country into unnecessary violence and destruction. Instead of focusing on reconciliation he is only focused on deflecting blame and clinging to power. Many in the international community condemn the fact that innocent civilians have been killed simply because they want democracy. http://news.bbc.co.uk/democracylive/hi/eur...000/8695234.stm

[Bakseedaa]

Abhisit is starting to sound like a clown with his pathetic excuses and inability to take responsibility.

And it seems he is not the worst when it comes to making yourself out to be a clown....

[Bakseedaa]

The PM bent over backwards to avoid violence, but the protesters refused to cooperate.

Newsflash: Killing 80+ people isn't exactly "bending over backwards to avoid violence".

But, we do not know who killed these 80 terrorists/people If you have proof, please enlighted us...

[asiawatcher]

The PM bent over backwards to avoid violence, but the protesters refused to cooperate.

Newsflash: Killing 80+ people isn't exactly "bending over backwards to avoid violence".

Newsflash: 305 Thais killed each other during Songkran 2010 and a further 10,000 were injured. Reds were lucky they did not drive their pickups inside their barricades and add to that. Pity!

Fools are led and followers are many - brainwashing masses and then throwing up lame arguments like yours is pointless. Get a life.

[tonywebster]

Well I'm pleased Abhisit will not be expecting to ride into power on the sad ripple of support generated for him by his supposed supporters on this Forum!!!

Hopefully not too many voting Thai will read the derogatory comments aimed at their own fellow citizens by the farang 'supposed' Abhisit supporters!!!

On the contrary,look at the recent polls on here and you will see by far the highest support is for the Legitimate current

Government,who have done their best to clear up this mess created by the fugitive living abroad,using his paid pawns

to further his own bid to regain power.

since when have polls on here mattered, I have said many times the only figures that will matter from a poll is the next election, people that actually have a vote rather than some people on here with complexes and the desire to repeat the same garbage over and over in the hope that it will eventually brainwash others like it has brainwashed them. The people that matter will vote, they will vote the sam way.

Actually just a question, hopefully someone can answer it for me, at the last election what percentage of the vote did the democrats get?

I am asking because some on here always state that the people want them in power, I always say if people wanted them in power they would have voted for them, I am interested in knowing what percentage of the vote the actually got, this will also show what percentage of voters didn't want them in power.

[tonywebster]

Abhisit is starting to sound like a clown with his pathetic excuses and inability to take responsibility.

And it seems he is not the worst when it comes to making yourself out to be a clown....

I agree with peppers, and no need for your flaming or abuse, how about a reasonable counter argument rather than just abusing the poster. Both abhisit and suthep are both looking rather foolish, being shown as liars and the more they deny knowledge in things it shows one of two things, they are either liars or they had no control over the situation. Which one is it?

[SomTumTiger]

Abhisit is starting to sound like a clown with his pathetic excuses and inability to take responsibility.

And it seems he is not the worst when it comes to making yourself out to be a clown....

I agree with peppers, and no need for your flaming or abuse, how about a reasonable counter argument rather than just abusing the poster. Both abhisit and suthep are both looking rather foolish, being shown as liars and the more they deny knowledge in things it shows one of two things, they are either liars or they had no control over the situation. Which one is it?

If Peppers and Tony thing the PM is looking bad, then I know for certain we are on the right track!

[Ulysses G.]

Abhisit is starting to sound like a clown with his pathetic excuses and inability to take responsibility.

And it seems he is not the worst when it comes to making yourself out to be a clown....

I agree with peppers, and no need for your flaming or abuse, how about a reasonable counter argument rather than just abusing the poster.

Maybe you should read some of Dr. Peppers ignorant, abusive posts before you start accusing other members of the same thing.

As to suggesting that the PM is a liar. There is a former PM who was removed from office who has him topped by a longshot who you seem to think is quite a swell guy.

Edited June 1, 2010 by Ulysses G.

[Roadman]

In the line of fire

By Nophakhun Limsamarnphun Published on May 29, 2010

Nation photographer Chaiwat Pumpuang reckons that last week's red riot in Bangkok was even more dangerous for newsmen than Afghanistan or southern Thailand

Chaiwat Pumpuang, 47, a veteran photographer for The Nation, didn't expect a potentially deadly surprise from the security forces battling anti-government protesters in Bangkok on the afternoon of May 15.

Chaiwat, who joined the paper in the mid-1980s, was on duty covering the political unrest on Rajprarob Road near the Century Hotel when he was shot in his right leg.

"Around 3pm, I and a group of 10 other TV and newspaper cameramen, including three Japanese, were following 50 to 60 red-shirt protesters along Rajprarob Road after security forces set up barricades to stop them from advancing into the city centre [and Rajprasong intersection, where the main protest site was situated].

"The situation was rather tense but I didn't expect the military to take very harsh action against the protesters. The worst came around 3.30pm when the red shirts took over a city water truck and tried to steer it across the road near Soi Rangnam as a barrier against the security forces.

"Soldiers then blew out the tyres on this truck and all hel_l broke loose. The place suddenly turned into a battlefield as I attempted to capture the scenes on my camera with a telescope lens.

"Everyone was retreating into corners to avoid live bullets from the security forces. I and a colleague from Post Today were among the last to leave the firing zone.

"Unfortunately, I was two or three steps too late, and was hit in my right upper leg, with my back next to the concrete wall of a nearby house.

"After collapsing in the street, I was left lying there for 25-30 minutes. Afterwards, the army stopped shooting and a rescue team arrived at the scene," says Chaiwat, who has covered war zones in Afghanistan and Cambodia as well as Thailand's insurgent-wracked southernmost provinces.

In his opinion, field journalists and cameramen generally ensure their own safety while covering dangerous events by choosing to stay on the "right" side of the conflict. However, such a choice was difficult in last week's Bangkok riots.

"On April 10, for instance, several soldiers were killed [by unidentified assailants] as they attempted to disperse protesters at Bangkok's Kwok Wua intersection.

"As a result, we couldn't be sure that we would be safe if we were with the security forces. We were concerned about being shot by snipers [from unknown forces], for instance.

"In other words, the Bangkok riots were tougher than Afghanistan or Cambodia or southern Thailand in terms of making the right choice for safety.

"In southern Thailand, for example, I have been there more than 10 times. Most of the time, we stay with villagers. The last time, seven soldiers were killed by a car bomb in Narathiwat. It happened about 600 metres from where I was standing.

"During a Thai-Burmese border skirmish a few years ago, we were with the Thai forces and there was no safety problem.

"This time, I mistakenly believed that the security forces wouldn't get very tough with the protesters. There were just 50 to 60 red shirts, a very small group. I couldn't believe that the soldiers would shoot non-stop like that. What happened was very fast, offensive and deadly. There was no advance signal that the army would strike that hard, especially when there were about ten cameramen in the area.

"We were just doing our duty and we couldn't see the soldiers who sprayed bullets, as they were behind their sandbags at the opposite end of the street," says Chaiwat.

-- The Nation May 29, 2010

[newsfooter][/newsfooter]

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/home/2010/...e-30130431.html

The main point in this article is ""On April 10, for instance, several soldiers were killed [by unidentified assailants] as they attempted to disperse protesters at Bangkok's Kwok Wua intersection." It's THEN that things got worse. And yes, those troopers were just doing their duty.

In a nut shell. That was when it turned from sit in to murder and terrorism from within the Red ranks where Sah Daeung and his Black Goons with free movement through Red ranks murdered Army officers and troops who were there to clear out with standard riot systems. Guilty by association and the silly little prattle in here from the Reds cheerleaders is pathetic. Army snippers? of course there were. Innocents shoot needelessly? Of course there were. What you all fail to even remember is the aerial battle by snipers from Army and the Black Goons was still being fought in the first lockdown by Army troops on the Reds encampment.

Go back and read the reports that were coming out about troops fearful of what was above them as in snipers and also the accounts of the CRES dealing with the unidentified snipers. And that was still going up until or a day after the lockdown. And that is when May 18 ? or 19 ?

It was an Army and Governemnt coalition operation done effectively enough by Anupong and Abhisit to remove terrorists.

[animatic]

Does anyone know the international standards for evicting a large mob of criminals from a barricaded section of a major city? What is done in the UK or the USA when armed terrorists occupy the streets and attack security forces? Suggesting that there is a standard method for dealing with the Thai crisis is ridiculous, when has a similar event happened anywhere else?

A similar event occured in in Thailand in 2008, when a large mob of facist criminals barricaded different sections of the city for a total of 192 days. The government response was to allow the protest to continue until the large mob of criminals got what they wanted and the protest ended.

Ummm no

In 2008 a (by far and large) peaceful group of protesters staged an illegal act of civil disobedience for a long time. It did not cripple the financial center of the city.

The Reds were told they could remain at PanFah Bridge as long as they wanted. The problem is that Thaksin needed faster action which is why they moved to try and cripple the government by both armed terrorism and financial terrorism.

And they diden´t burn the city, Survarnabhumi was up and running 2 days after the yellow left.

Didn't even loot King Power Duty Free, even though it was completely unguarded.

Not even the liquer.

[animatic]

Abhisit is starting to sound like a clown with his pathetic excuses and inability to take responsibility.

And it seems he is not the worst when it comes to making yourself out to be a clown....

I agree with peppers, and no need for your flaming or abuse, how about a reasonable counter argument rather than just abusing the poster. Both abhisit and suthep are both looking rather foolish, being shown as liars and the more they deny knowledge in things it shows one of two things, they are either liars or they had no control over the situation. Which one is it?

Tony try and read the wording.

"...it SEEMS..." means it is 'qualified and not stated as fact', and so not a flame.

This is the difference in newsprint or books between libel or defamation

and an opinion positing a possibility.

[hammered]

What a lot of people miss is how Abhisit aims for the middle. For example, in the censure he said we need to seperate terrorists from ordinary reds. That is what those in the middle want to hear. They are sick of political posturing. They know there are violent murderous nofire lighting elements of the reds and they know there are innocents. They also know that some poor unfortunates got killed by soldiers. However, Abhisit hits home with this group by playing the seprate good from bad. If he just labelled all reds as terrorists he would not score with the middle. He also stresses how much time was allowed and the roadmap which was rejected. This is also meat and drink for the middle as is "independent" investigation.

The PTP has a more difficult job as they cant say lets seperate violent reds from reaceful reds. Their line is that the violence attributed to reds was actually done by government. This line may sell with the true believers but it isnt what the middle wants to hear as it is just blame each other stuff without reaching out.

Abhisit is clever and his opponents and even some allies underestimate him.

[jdinasia]

Abhisit is starting to sound like a clown with his pathetic excuses and inability to take responsibility.

And it seems he is not the worst when it comes to making yourself out to be a clown....

I agree with peppers, and no need for your flaming or abuse, how about a reasonable counter argument rather than just abusing the poster. Both abhisit and suthep are both looking rather foolish, being shown as liars and the more they deny knowledge in things it shows one of two things, they are either liars or they had no control over the situation. Which one is it?

Apparently Tony isn't watching the censure debate at all.

His last argument is fallacious in so many many ways. It isn't nec the either/or situation he suggests at all!

Instead it is just far more likely that the knowledge Tony suggests should be there has not yet been determined.

It would be like suggesting someone beats their wife on Tuesdays or Wednesdays but that it must be one of the other.

Then again for someone that has said all along that he isn't red, yet all along he has spouted the red line of arguents .... He is either a .....

Hammered, as usual has a good line on what is happening here. Abhisit is not pandering to either the reds or the yellows but is speaking to the majority of Thais who are neither red not yellow.

[jdinasia]

Well I'm pleased Abhisit will not be expecting to ride into power on the sad ripple of support generated for him by his supposed supporters on this Forum!!!

Hopefully not too many voting Thai will read the derogatory comments aimed at their own fellow citizens by the farang 'supposed' Abhisit supporters!!!

On the contrary,look at the recent polls on here and you will see by far the highest support is for the Legitimate current

Government,who have done their best to clear up this mess created by the fugitive living abroad,using his paid pawns

to further his own bid to regain power.

since when have polls on here mattered, I have said many times the only figures that will matter from a poll is the next election, people that actually have a vote rather than some people on here with complexes and the desire to repeat the same garbage over and over in the hope that it will eventually brainwash others like it has brainwashed them. The people that matter will vote, they will vote the sam way.

Actually just a question, hopefully someone can answer it for me, at the last election what percentage of the vote did the democrats get?

I am asking because some on here always state that the people want them in power, I always say if people wanted them in power they would have voted for them, I am interested in knowing what percentage of the vote the actually got, this will also show what percentage of voters didn't want them in power.

It strikes me as strange that at this late date you would be asking for information like this!

Remember that this information reflects things in 2007 BEFORE the Friends of Newin faction left PPP.

Note that in the party list that the Dems got slightly more votes than PPP

Note that no party got 50%

Note that things have changed including the violence by the reds and the loss of support in places like Khon Kaen and other areas upcountry.

[Rucharee]

Abhisit is starting to sound like a clown with his pathetic excuses and inability to take responsibility.

And it seems he is not the worst when it comes to making yourself out to be a clown....

I agree with peppers, and no need for your flaming or abuse, how about a reasonable counter argument rather than just abusing the poster. Both abhisit and suthep are both looking rather foolish, being shown as liars and the more they deny knowledge in things it shows one of two things, they are either liars or they had no control over the situation. Which one is it?

Second that.

[LindsayBKK]

Abhisit is starting to sound like a clown with his pathetic excuses and inability to take responsibility.

I am sorry but Abhisit had an answer for every picture they tried to pin on his Coalition.

On which event are you talking about that Abhisit needs to clarify?

Maybe the soldiers (on the BTS track) with silencer rifles that the Thai military don't have?

Oh plus there was no smoke coming from Central World so was not from the day of the Temple shooting!

Or maybe the opposition with pictures of a guy shot but next to him was dried blood? Blood was on the ground from the night before.

plus the MP says, after he was told picture was dried blood, says "Oh hang on a minute let's negotiate a little"! (Oh what a fool)

Oh and the best one that was said yesterday was the Thai Soldiers set Central World on fire.

The Opposition have only pictures and can't even get any story right.

I am sorry for you not understanding the translations, you should learn Thai first if you want to know what they are talking about.

Do not make claims without backing up your story with facts.

Facebook has given 20,000 signature's to remove MP Red Shirts Leader from office.

Facebook currently has more that 540,000 members supporting the Government.

Edited June 1, 2010 by LindsayBKK

[tonywebster]

Abhisit is starting to sound like a clown with his pathetic excuses and inability to take responsibility.

And it seems he is not the worst when it comes to making yourself out to be a clown....

I agree with peppers, and no need for your flaming or abuse, how about a reasonable counter argument rather than just abusing the poster.

Maybe you should read some of Dr. Peppers ignorant, abusive posts before you start accusing other members of the same thing.

As to suggesting that the PM is a liar. There is a former PM who was removed from office who has him topped by a longshot who you seem to think is quite a swell guy.

Don't assume, I don't think Thaksin is a swell guy, I have no time for him, I do however see the red movement as bigger than just Thaksin and I support the ideology that a new election is needed to get a government that the people actually want. Look at the bigger picture, get over your hatred of thaksin, open your eyes and see what is actually going on, and stop assuming that you know me or my pricipals, you end up looking as silly as the current mob.

[tonywebster]

Abhisit is starting to sound like a clown with his pathetic excuses and inability to take responsibility.

And it seems he is not the worst when it comes to making yourself out to be a clown....

I agree with peppers, and no need for your flaming or abuse, how about a reasonable counter argument rather than just abusing the poster. Both abhisit and suthep are both looking rather foolish, being shown as liars and the more they deny knowledge in things it shows one of two things, they are either liars or they had no control over the situation. Which one is it?

Tony try and read the wording.

"...it SEEMS..." means it is 'qualified and not stated as fact', and so not a flame.

This is the difference in newsprint or books between libel or defamation

and an opinion positing a possibility.

'it seems' as in 'it seems to me' or as in 'it seems to others', either way the poster is calling another poster a clown, the poster is saying in his opinion the other poster is a clown. clearly it is aflame and clearly he is calling the other person a clown. If I say is seems you are a bit of a cock is that ok? is that the way round flaming now? just add 'it seems' and everything is ok.

Why is it the ones that seem to want to come across as educated always get it so wrong?

[tonywebster]

Abhisit is starting to sound like a clown with his pathetic excuses and inability to take responsibility.

I am sorry but Abhisit had an answer for every picture they tried to pin on his Coalition.

On which event are you talking about that Abhisit needs to clarify?

Maybe the soldiers (on the BTS track) with silencer rifles that the Thai military don't have?

Oh plus there was no smoke coming from Central World so was not from the day of the Temple shooting!

Or maybe the opposition with pictures of a guy shot but next to him was dried blood? Blood was on the ground from the night before.

plus the MP says, after he was told picture was dried blood, says "Oh hang on a minute let's negotiate a little"! (Oh what a fool)

Oh and the best one that was said yesterday was the Thai Soldiers set Central World on fire.

The Opposition have only pictures and can't even get any story right.

I am sorry for you not understanding the translations, you should learn Thai first if you want to know what they are talking about.

Do not make claims without backing up your story with facts.

Facebook has given 20,000 signature's to remove MP Red Shirts Leader from office.

Facebook currently has more that 540,000 members supporting the Government.

wow facebook electing governments now, as I have said before the figures that matter will be at the election.

[Siripon]

Don't assume, I don't think Thaksin is a swell guy, I have no time for him, I do however see the red movement as bigger than just Thaksin and I support the ideology that a new election is needed to get a government that the people actually want. Look at the bigger picture, get over your hatred of thaksin, open your eyes and see what is actually going on, and stop assuming that you know me or my pricipals, you end up looking as silly as the current mob.

What actually is going on is Thaksin determined at any cost to overthrow this government now .

Why didn't the red movement accept the election proposal of Nov 14?

Because they're beholden to Thaksin, the 'moderate' leaders should have walked off the stage but of course they'd already promised to burn Bangkok.