Farangs, Hated Or Not?

[simon43]

Did you say 'Ban nok' or 'Ban nork' ?

The difference is important

Simon

[dutchweller]

Did you say 'Ban nok' or 'Ban nork' ?

The difference is important

Simon

Ban nork

[gotglue]

whenever I get passed or even pushed out of the way by someone, when I am waiting in a queue at 7/11 , I smile to myself and think " they must really hate me!" . . however, it is just their respectlessness, not hate ! You will not encounter open hatred, as this will be loss of face for a Thai. But if you ask for trouble, it will be at your feet in no time ! There are nationalists and such , like in every other country , that think their nation or their race is superior. I just avoid such people, and love and show that I like nice and friendly folk. You get back hatred when you give people a reason !

I too have experienced the annoying pushing out of the way at the BTS or the cutting to the front of the Que at 7/11 or any outer Que I asked my GF about this as it seemed quite common to see some Thai think it is quite OK to walk the the front of any line and expect to be served next without even acknowledged or batting an eye at it.

I was told that the concept of Queuing is new concept in Thailand Before (10-5 years) it was every man and woman for himself or he who yells loudest gets served first.

This concept is still evident in Thai Drivers and the Buffalo style of I am the biggest or I am preceved the most important driving my European import (Merc, BMW, etc.) and if I Drive aggressively everyone will get out of my way because if they damage me it will always be seen as the poor mans fault..

Spend some time up country and you will find many more examples of people unaware of the the Queuing concept.

and who will get extremely upset if anyone points out to them that they should Que and wait there turn.

Now days when someone cuts in front of me I usually stare at them directly in to their eyes and say "Ban nok" it will either send them into a a furious rage causing them to loose face or all the other people around will stare at them and laugh and they will Quietly move back to the back of the line.

As you rightly pointed out, the concept of queueing is new to many older thais. You calling them "bannok" could also result in them grabbing the nearest bottle of 'Blues Haley Boy' and shoving it towards your face. Try saying something more fitting to the situation rather than a direct personal insult. Something like "mung queue mai pen lor wha?" will have a more positive impact and MAY just educate them at the same time, although I doubt it

[dutchweller]

whenever I get passed or even pushed out of the way by someone, when I am waiting in a queue at 7/11 , I smile to myself and think " they must really hate me!" . . however, it is just their respectlessness, not hate ! You will not encounter open hatred, as this will be loss of face for a Thai. But if you ask for trouble, it will be at your feet in no time ! There are nationalists and such , like in every other country , that think their nation or their race is superior. I just avoid such people, and love and show that I like nice and friendly folk. You get back hatred when you give people a reason !

I too have experienced the annoying pushing out of the way at the BTS or the cutting to the front of the Que at 7/11 or any outer Que I asked my GF about this as it seemed quite common to see some Thai think it is quite OK to walk the the front of any line and expect to be served next without even acknowledged or batting an eye at it.

I was told that the concept of Queuing is new concept in Thailand Before (10-5 years) it was every man and woman for himself or he who yells loudest gets served first.

This concept is still evident in Thai Drivers and the Buffalo style of I am the biggest or I am preceved the most important driving my European import (Merc, BMW, etc.) and if I Drive aggressively everyone will get out of my way because if they damage me it will always be seen as the poor mans fault..

Spend some time up country and you will find many more examples of people unaware of the the Queuing concept.

and who will get extremely upset if anyone points out to them that they should Que and wait there turn.

Now days when someone cuts in front of me I usually stare at them directly in to their eyes and say "Ban nok" it will either send them into a a furious rage causing them to loose face or all the other people around will stare at them and laugh and they will Quietly move back to the back of the line.

As you rightly pointed out, the concept of queueing is new to many older thais. You calling them "bannok" could also result in them grabbing the nearest bottle of 'Blues Haley Boy' and shoving it towards your face. Try saying something more fitting to the situation rather than a direct personal insult. Something like "mung queue mai pen lor wha?" will have a more positive impact and MAY just educate them at the same time, although I doubt it

I do pick when it is appropriate to use "Ban Nork" and it still surprises me that Thais think of being called up country an insult.

I'm a Country boy and I dont find it insulting at all.

"Khun lor mai pen lor wha" my be may be used if you feel you might cause a physical reaction "mung" is not excatly a polite way to address a stranger.

[lazygourmet]

Post #108 , hope you are not teaching English .

.... but apparently, he does!

[gotglue]

whenever I get passed or even pushed out of the way by someone, when I am waiting in a queue at 7/11 , I smile to myself and think " they must really hate me!" . . however, it is just their respectlessness, not hate ! You will not encounter open hatred, as this will be loss of face for a Thai. But if you ask for trouble, it will be at your feet in no time ! There are nationalists and such , like in every other country , that think their nation or their race is superior. I just avoid such people, and love and show that I like nice and friendly folk. You get back hatred when you give people a reason !

I too have experienced the annoying pushing out of the way at the BTS or the cutting to the front of the Que at 7/11 or any outer Que I asked my GF about this as it seemed quite common to see some Thai think it is quite OK to walk the the front of any line and expect to be served next without even acknowledged or batting an eye at it.

I was told that the concept of Queuing is new concept in Thailand Before (10-5 years) it was every man and woman for himself or he who yells loudest gets served first.

This concept is still evident in Thai Drivers and the Buffalo style of I am the biggest or I am preceved the most important driving my European import (Merc, BMW, etc.) and if I Drive aggressively everyone will get out of my way because if they damage me it will always be seen as the poor mans fault..

Spend some time up country and you will find many more examples of people unaware of the the Queuing concept.

and who will get extremely upset if anyone points out to them that they should Que and wait there turn.

Now days when someone cuts in front of me I usually stare at them directly in to their eyes and say "Ban nok" it will either send them into a a furious rage causing them to loose face or all the other people around will stare at them and laugh and they will Quietly move back to the back of the line.

As you rightly pointed out, the concept of queueing is new to many older thais. You calling them "bannok" could also result in them grabbing the nearest bottle of 'Blues Haley Boy' and shoving it towards your face. Try saying something more fitting to the situation rather than a direct personal insult. Something like "mung queue mai pen lor wha?" will have a more positive impact and MAY just educate them at the same time, although I doubt it

I do pick when it is appropriate to use "Ban Nork" and it still surprises me that Thais think of being called up country an insult.

I'm a Country boy and I dont find it insulting at all.

"Khun lor mai pen lor wha" my be may be used if you feel you might cause a physical reaction "mung" is not excatly a polite way to address a stranger.

Yeah, you're right to an extent with the "khun and mung" thing. But the use of "ban nok" with reference to a style or and object is fine. Calling someone ban nok is the same as call them a village idiot, in the eyes of a thai.

[appleman]

I feel so sorry for Tejas. Being here for 3 decades and he is thought of as only a "walking ATM machine". Seems like a waste that he couldn't find a place that liked him a little better.

[hawker9000]

That's funny - I've rarely encountered Thais trying to push ahead of me in line at the 7-11 (or anywhere else I can think of, right offhand). Sometimes they've kind of "started to", but almost instantly, without my saying or doing anything, they've smiled and apologized and gone to move back in line, at which point I smile back and insist they go ahead and say that I'm in no hurry. (If anyone is irritated by this, I think it's Thais further back in line that just want SOMEBODY to go ahead and get ON WITH IT! )

Just occasionally, where a Thai has jumped ahead of me, I've done nothing but look at him until he's finished and out the door. Maybe I've lost face; maybe he has - I don't know. I'm on vacation, and it's just not worth taking serious offense at or even spending time wondering about.

[dutchweller]

"Calling someone ban nok is the same as call them a village idiot, in the eyes of a thai"

That might be true

But for what I have been taut it is more calling somone uneducated or a person from a Simple Village.

perhaps I am wrong.

[gotglue]

"Calling someone ban nok is the same as call them a village idiot, in the eyes of a thai"

That might be true

But for what I have been taut it is more calling somone uneducated or a person from a Simple Village.

perhaps I am wrong.

So what you've been taught, is what i've just said. Hawker9000 got it right tho I think, it's the ppl further back don't really care, just so long as the 'jumper' doesn't want to pay a bill of something.

[dutchweller]

Oh I do believe they care just they are Thai and dont want to make a scene.

and I almost certen Farangs are targeted to be cut in front of because the jumper 9 times out of 10 will get away with it.

As Most Farangs dont know what to say....

I have watched as Thais Que for motor bike Taxi Try to cut in to a very long Que only to get told in no uncertain terms it is Not appropriate to cut in under any circumstance..

I laughed one day some woman tried to justify her cutting in line "Because it was raining and she had just spent 1500 b on her hair"

A bunch of University students commented quite loudly that

"If she spent 1500 on her hair why is so cheap to not pay for a taxi in the rain?

Another girl replied from further back the line

"Even if she spent 1500 on her hair she still acts like Up country"

The jumper soon departed the line and disappeared into a Market stall.

to the giggles of the rest of the people in earshot of the comments.

[MiG16]

Something like "mung queue mai pen lor wha?" will have a more positive impact and MAY just educate them at the same time, although I doubt it

"Khun lor mai pen lor wha" my be may be used if you feel you might cause a physical reaction "mung" is not excatly a polite way to address a stranger.

actually, just for info, it is not just 'mung' that is impolite. 'wha' is also an impolite word. (commonly used amongst friends, but nevertheless an impolite word)

[gotglue]

Something like "mung queue mai pen lor wha?" will have a more positive impact and MAY just educate them at the same time, although I doubt it

"Khun lor mai pen lor wha" my be may be used if you feel you might cause a physical reaction "mung" is not excatly a polite way to address a stranger.

actually, just for info, it is not just 'mung' that is impolite. 'wha' is also an impolite word. (commonly used amongst friends, but nevertheless an impolite word)

Thanks MIG, this we know, but both words can and often are used to add expression.

[koolkarl]

Hate is probably too strong a word however the fact that it is almost impossible

to become an immigrant here is a strong indication that they are only interested

in our money and nothing else.

[kapasao]

I have lived in the Chiang Mai area for five years. About a year ago in Lamphun I was standing at the curb, waiting for my wife to park the car. A over sixty y.o., clean, sober, silent farang, dressed no differently from the vast majority of people here. I heard someone shout "Farang! <deleted> you!" I raised my eyes to the second story of the

overlooking building to discover that the shouter was a sixteen y.o., orange-robed member of Thailand's "venerable sangha." The building was a school run by one of the largest, most important ancient temples here.

This experience, to my mind, sums up everything one might need to know about Thai child-rearing, Thai education,

Thai "Buddhism," and the general attitude of Thais toward farangs. There are no adults in charge anywhere at any time.

I have been a Buddhist practitioner for twenty years, have lived and traveled in several majority Buddhist countries, and am certain that this could only have happened in Thailand.

"Thai people very polite! Land of Smile!"--Yeah, RiGHT!

[Birdman]

If you are a Buddhist practitioner since 20 years and you write such a hate post, I would think deeply about your practise -

- definitely

[StreetCowboy]

I feel so sorry for Tejas. Being here for 3 decades and he is thought of as only a "walking ATM machine". Seems like a waste that he couldn't find a place that liked him a little better.

At least people love him for something,

I'm very glad that my wealth makes up for my lack of humility.

If I had charisma, I'd just abuse it

SC

[ExpatJ]

I have lived in the Chiang Mai area for five years. About a year ago in Lamphun I was standing at the curb, waiting for my wife to park the car. A over sixty y.o., clean, sober, silent farang, dressed no differently from the vast majority of people here. I heard someone shout "Farang! <deleted> you!" I raised my eyes to the second story of the

overlooking building to discover that the shouter was a sixteen y.o., orange-robed member of Thailand's "venerable sangha." The building was a school run by one of the largest, most important ancient temples here.

This experience, to my mind, sums up everything one might need to know about Thai child-rearing, Thai education,

Thai "Buddhism," and the general attitude of Thais toward farangs. There are no adults in charge anywhere at any time.

I have been a Buddhist practitioner for twenty years, have lived and traveled in several majority Buddhist countries, and am certain that this could only have happened in Thailand.

"Thai people very polite! Land of Smile!"--Yeah, RiGHT!

A 16 year old kid insulting you "could only have happen in Thailand" . lol , have you not encountered any teenagers outside of thailand??!!

[tlcwaterfall]

If you are a Buddhist practitioner since 20 years and you write such a hate post, I would think deeply about your practise -

- definitely

Are you criticising the poster for telling his experience and if so why?

Where is the hate in his post? I certainly can not see any hate in his post, merely his personal experience!

[Berkshire]

I have lived in the Chiang Mai area for five years. About a year ago in Lamphun I was standing at the curb, waiting for my wife to park the car. A over sixty y.o., clean, sober, silent farang, dressed no differently from the vast majority of people here. I heard someone shout "Farang! <deleted> you!" I raised my eyes to the second story of the

overlooking building to discover that the shouter was a sixteen y.o., orange-robed member of Thailand's "venerable sangha." The building was a school run by one of the largest, most important ancient temples here.

This experience, to my mind, sums up everything one might need to know about Thai child-rearing, Thai education,

Thai "Buddhism," and the general attitude of Thais toward farangs. There are no adults in charge anywhere at any time.

I have been a Buddhist practitioner for twenty years, have lived and traveled in several majority Buddhist countries, and am certain that this could only have happened in Thailand.

"Thai people very polite! Land of Smile!"--Yeah, RiGHT!

A 16 year old kid insulting you "could only have happen in Thailand" . lol , have you not encountered any teenagers outside of thailand??!!

True, I might tend to believe this story if it were western teenagers. But frankly, Kapasao, I don't believe your story for a second. As a general rule, young Thai's have more respect for elders than young westerners. So Kapasao, why would you make up such nonsense?

[bkkjames]

I have lived in the Chiang Mai area for five years. About a year ago in Lamphun I was standing at the curb, waiting for my wife to park the car. A over sixty y.o., clean, sober, silent farang, dressed no differently from the vast majority of people here. I heard someone shout "Farang! <deleted> you!" I raised my eyes to the second story of the

overlooking building to discover that the shouter was a sixteen y.o., orange-robed member of Thailand's "venerable sangha." The building was a school run by one of the largest, most important ancient temples here.

This experience, to my mind, sums up everything one might need to know about Thai child-rearing, Thai education,

Thai "Buddhism," and the general attitude of Thais toward farangs. There are no adults in charge anywhere at any time.

I have been a Buddhist practitioner for twenty years, have lived and traveled in several majority Buddhist countries, and am certain that this could only have happened in Thailand.

"Thai people very polite! Land of Smile!"--Yeah, RiGHT!

A 16 year old kid insulting you "could only have happen in Thailand" . lol , have you not encountered any teenagers outside of thailand??!!

True, I might tend to believe this story if it were western teenagers. But frankly, Kapasao, I don't believe your story for a second. As a general rule, young Thai's have more respect for elders than young westerners. So Kapasao, why would you make up such nonsense?

Berk:

Just because you don't believe the OP doesn't mean he made it up. It's not hard to believe that some young kids learned a new phrase from some xenophopic adult? down at the local video game shop, and just wanted to try it out on the nearest farang.

Young boys are young boys, no matter where they are from - Brats, the lot. I should know. I am one.

[Berkshire]

I have lived in the Chiang Mai area for five years. About a year ago in Lamphun I was standing at the curb, waiting for my wife to park the car. A over sixty y.o., clean, sober, silent farang, dressed no differently from the vast majority of people here. I heard someone shout "Farang! <deleted> you!" I raised my eyes to the second story of the

overlooking building to discover that the shouter was a sixteen y.o., orange-robed member of Thailand's "venerable sangha." The building was a school run by one of the largest, most important ancient temples here.

This experience, to my mind, sums up everything one might need to know about Thai child-rearing, Thai education,

Thai "Buddhism," and the general attitude of Thais toward farangs. There are no adults in charge anywhere at any time.

I have been a Buddhist practitioner for twenty years, have lived and traveled in several majority Buddhist countries, and am certain that this could only have happened in Thailand.

"Thai people very polite! Land of Smile!"--Yeah, RiGHT!

A 16 year old kid insulting you "could only have happen in Thailand" . lol , have you not encountered any teenagers outside of thailand??!!

True, I might tend to believe this story if it were western teenagers. But frankly, Kapasao, I don't believe your story for a second. As a general rule, young Thai's have more respect for elders than young westerners. So Kapasao, why would you make up such nonsense?

Berk:

Just because you don't believe the OP doesn't mean he made it up. It's not hard to believe that some young kids learned a new phrase from some xenophopic adult? down at the local video game shop, and just wanted to try it out on the nearest farang.

Young boys are young boys, no matter where they are from - Brats, the lot. I should know. I am one.

Sorry James, but I do believe he made it up. A 16 yr old monk yelling curse words at an elderly farang? That's so beyond the realms of reason that it's just not believable. It's almost like a guy claiming to walk into a bar and being offered 5,000 baht by a bargirl to take her out. Some things we just can't accept!

[bkkjames]

Berk: Sad to say but don't let the clothes people wear be an indication of their morals / wholesomeness. Since the beginning of time, this has been proved over and over and over again.

[StreetCowboy]

I think if I'd been practising Buddhism for 20 years, I'd try to avoid stirring the pot except when I was cooking, and I'd try not to speak ill of anyone, even strangers.

I guess some people just need to keep practising.

If I'd been practising Buddhism for a matter of days or weeks, I can imagine that my childish and mischevious sense of humour might tempt me to say things that others might not find funny, and might disapprove of. Things that even the most humble of abbots might be too embarassed to apologise for; I understand that they are only human...

Anyway, I've not practising buddhism, but I hope you all find serenity and a pleasing sense of humour,

SC

I re-read the post again and I see that he was in fact the "over sixty y.o., clean, sober, silent farang" - we can all boast of our demeanour, but it helps to see ourselves as others see us, and the other shouted abuse. Now whose opinion are we going to take? That of an elderly immigrant, or a respected monk? I believe there is a saying "out of the mouths of babes...". My recommendation would be to learn from bullocks and ducks when it comes to such conversations.

[Birdman]

If you are a Buddhist practitioner since 20 years and you write such a hate post, I would think deeply about your practise -

- definitely

Are you criticising the poster for telling his experience and if so why?

Where is the hate in his post? I certainly can not see any hate in his post, merely his personal experience!

I would like to explain that to you, but how can someone explain colours to a blind man?

[Tonto21]

Hate! Most of you have never witnessed real hate, You think every one should cater to you.

Have you ever been to the U.S. South during Segregation?

South Africa during Apartheid?

Ever remember 14 year old Emmit Till being lynched, for wolf whistle at a white woman?

Seems like you-all look in to the shadows, to find a reason to bad mouth anything Thai.

Cheers: <img src="http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif" style="vertical-align:middle" emoid="" border="0" alt="smile.gif" />

Don’t talk to me about hate! I used to have to go to school in hand-me –down cloths as a kid….Problem was impounded by the fact I only had an older sister…………….I hated that blue dress, (with matching shoes and a clutch bag)

[johnwboy]

Get up, eat breakfast, drop the daughter off at school, go to work, eat lunch, knock off, have a few beers, go home, do things with the fam on the weekend. I don't have time to worry whether 67 million Thais hate me. Though I suspect they do not.

I would sure hope that all of SEA would remember who came to their rescue during WW II from the hated Japanese at the time.

[johnwboy]

QUOTE (hammered @ 2010-06-01 16:40:35) Generalizations arent really possible

What do you mean they 'aren't really possible'? Generalisations are essential.

As for the OP, yes, Thais generally dislike farang. If the west-to-east powershift continues to gather pace, expect fewer and fewer farang in thailand over the coming decades. We are generally liked when we are spending money, generally despised when we're not.

And where do you think the farang would be moving too???

[caf]

Get up, eat breakfast, drop the daughter off at school, go to work, eat lunch, knock off, have a few beers, go home, do things with the fam on the weekend. I don't have time to worry whether 67 million Thais hate me. Though I suspect they do not.

I would sure hope that all of SEA would remember who came to their rescue during WW II from the hated Japanese at the time.

I doubt it. Thais believe what they are taught in school.

[Tejas]

And where do you think the farang would be moving too???

Lots of alternatives: Uruguay, Argentina, Ecuador, Panama, Cambodia, Vietnam, Singapore, Lao, Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia, China, Turkey, Cyprus, Spain...............and more.