The Cheap Euro Equals Cheap European Holidays - Doesn't It?

[webfact]

STREET WISE

The cheap euro equals cheap European holidays - doesn't it?

By Achara Deboonme

The Nation

MANY GERMAN cities are dream destinations for travellers worldwide. That dream is closer to coming true for many Thais after the euro, which was worth Bt50-plus, weakened sharply to about Bt40 thanks to the debt crisis in Europe.

But it could soon be pushed away again. Germany on Monday proposed levying a tax on passengers leaving German airports. The tax, outlined as part of a multibillion-euro package of belt-tightening measures, is set to run until the carbon-emissions trading scheme that has already been agreed comes into effect for air travel in 2012.

By 2014, German Prime Minister Angela Merkel said the government hopes to cut GBP 86 billion (Bt3.3 trillion) in spending, saving 11.2 billion in next year's budget. Last year, 80 million passengers used German airports. If that figure is unchanged this year, to ensure GBP1 billion in airport tax for the government coffers, passengers will need to pay an extra GBP12 per ticket.

This seems unfair to travellers. Why should they have to help shoulder the budget shortfall of a foreign country?

Unsurprisingly, Giovanni Bisignani, director general of the International Air Transport Association (IATA), slammed this initiative. In Berlin (one of those dream destinations), Bisignani denounced the move, calling it the worst kind of short-sighted irresponsibility.

"It's a cash-grab by a cash-strapped government," he said. His remarks were made in front of industry leaders gathered in Berlin for the 66th IATA annual general meeting as the World Air Transport Summit drew to a close.

"Airlines have an important role in driving economic growth, particularly as we struggle to recover from the recession," said Bisignani. "This is not the time to burden the aviation industry with more taxes. European GDP growth is expected to be 0.9 per cent this year - the lowest among the world's major regions. Operating in this environment, Europe's airlines will be the only region in the red with losses of US$2.8 billion. This tax is a body blow to the weak economy and a fragile industry. And it is a kick in the teeth to travellers at a time when they can least afford it."

According to the IATA, the Dutch government tried to raise GBP300 million with a similar tax, but it in turn cost the Dutch economy GBP1.2 billion in lost business.

Linked to the battle against global warming, the tax targets noise pollution and energy consumption, which is "absurd" for Bisignini.

Streetwise couldn't agree more. Twelve euros seems tiny, but it is enough for at least two meals at most eateries in Asia. The tax will certainly push the dreams of many poor but big-dreaming Thai travellers further out of reach.

-- The Nation 2010-06-09

Related link: Hotels in Europe http://www.agoda.com/europe.html

[kuffki]

i have a feeling drop in euro would rather hurt more Thai's then help.

Certainly there are more Thai's who do not travel to Europe and even with such a drop they will not be traveling, while for millions others drop in euro means less tourists from Europe.

Those who could afford to travel to Europe(tiny %) will not be affected all that much.

[frankman]

now everybody can see why living in europe is not so nice. as for the travelers to europe, i think the euro is not low enough...

Edited June 9, 2010 by frankman

[medica98]

The dooms of Farang Euro after the Dollars is here now. It's time for Cheap Charlie Farang Tourist to start counting their coins and stay put in their country than becoming a bump philospher around the bars in Sukhumvit.

[Pib]

A tax on passengers leaving German airports--I call this an Escape Fee.

Many countries do it and Thailand does it also. You use to have to buy a few hundred Baht departure slip at the Bangkok airport before walking into the immigration area but the Thai govt stopped collecting the fee in this very visual/obvious way; now it's collected directly from the airlines and the airlines include this govt fee in the ticket/fees/taxes/etc., you pay the airlines.

[Jimi007]

The dooms of Farang Euro after the Dollars is here now. It's time for Cheap Charlie Farang Tourist to start counting their coins and stay put in their country than becoming a bump philospher around the bars in Sukhumvit.

You may be correct. Thailand has been way over priced, for what you get. The infrastructure is a joke. How many times does my power go out? Almost every time there's a gust of wind. Cars are more way more expensive, the internet sucks, so does UBC! Plus all the ugly, cheaply built houses and "resorts." Bangkok, I try to avoid the place, especially now. Maybe I'm in a bad mood or I just am getting sick of the ineptness of the corporations, government and xenophobia... I think my rant is over now? Hum, not sure....

[Stjohnm]

i have a feeling drop in euro would rather hurt more Thai's then help.

Certainly there are more Thai's who do not travel to Europe and even with such a drop they will not be traveling, while for millions others drop in euro means less tourists from Europe.

Those who could afford to travel to Europe(tiny %) will not be affected all that much.

not to mention the Thais in Europe sending money home

[d0om4gloom]

Is this article trying to quote as many curreincss as possible ? Why are they quoting Euro countries in GBP ? Then up comes $ as well ! I can't make head nor tail of what they are saying except there's another cash strapped government looking to raise stealth taxes same as everyone else.

[dave_boo]

So a Thai writer finds out that a Western government is going to do what his country is notorious for (try getting in a National Park with locals and see the price difference) and he complains? 12 GBP is nothing. Sure it's quite a few meals up here in Nakhon Nowhere; but not having it didn't compel those who can't afford it to go before; perhaps if they can't afford the 12 GBP they're not the sort of tourists the country wants?

Why can't he complain about the Thai government's treatment of foreigners? Why do those on visas need to check in every 90 days like a sort of a criminal? Why are the laws structured to protect the ruling class by not allowing newcomers any rights? These are questions that he, assuming he's an ethical journalist, should be asking....

[Ricardo]

The writer seems unaware of the much-higher UK-departure tax, already levied on all who fly from UK airports, or indeed of Thailand's own 700B charge, nowadays incorporated into the ticket-price ?

Perhaps he/she should be more-concerned, with the effect of the weaker-Euro/stronger-Baht on tourists inbound to Thailand, since that has much more effect on the Thai economy & jobs, including the lower-paid majority of Thais who will probably never be able to afford to fly to Europe for fun & frolics !

But perhaps it's easier or more-popular simply to criticise the farangs ?

[12DrinkMore]

You may be correct. Thailand has been way over priced, for what you get. The infrastructure is a joke. How many times does my power go out? Almost every time there's a gust of wind. Cars are more way more expensive, the internet sucks, so does UBC! Plus all the ugly, cheaply built houses and "resorts." Bangkok, I try to avoid the place, especially now. Maybe I'm in a bad mood or I just am getting sick of the ineptness of the corporations, government and xenophobia... I think my rant is over now? Hum, not sure....

Really, for what you pay I think that Thailand is one of the best deals around.

Infrastructure

1. The roads work

2. The electricity works 99.99% of the time

3. Agreed the water supply is in the dry season a bit feeble, but a storage tank fixes that

4. You can eat any time of the day or night

5. International standard hospitals

6. Excellent and user friendly banking system

7. International travel, easy flights to just about anywhere.

8. Internal travel, good system of buses and a reasonable offering of flights.

UBC sucks, can't argue with that. Absolute crap service and far too expensive, hasn't improved in a decade. It is one reason why I can't see the point in buying a decent LCD TV.

Imported cars are more expensive, but pick-ups are not, small motorcycles are very cheap compared to even Malaysia, Kawasaki offer since 18 months a nice range of well priced models.

The internet runs great around here. Change your provider if you have an issue. And if you live out in the boonies, then don't expect the same level of service

Can't argue with the cheaply built houses but they are also sold cheap. The UK has a large stock of cheaply built houses and so does the US of A, and there you pay a fortune for squit all.

Ineptness of the corporations, government

Well, compared to the US, UK, Greece, Spain, Italy, Ireland etc., I think that the Thai government is doing a great job.

And maybe you hadn't noticed, but the economy of Thailand is also doing well, so the companies must also be doing something right.

Bangkok is a bit much, but everything is available and I never feel threatened walking around anywhere in Thailand, except maybe Patters, where the marauding bands of Euro-Trash-Pissheads make me feel uncomfortable.

But, take another closer look at the grass on the other side of the fence. I have, and it's much greener this side.

[banglay]

You may be correct. Thailand has been way over priced, for what you get. The infrastructure is a joke. How many times does my power go out? Almost every time there's a gust of wind. Cars are more way more expensive, the internet sucks, so does UBC! Plus all the ugly, cheaply built houses and "resorts." Bangkok, I try to avoid the place, especially now. Maybe I'm in a bad mood or I just am getting sick of the ineptness of the corporations, government and xenophobia... I think my rant is over now? Hum, not sure....

Really, for what you pay I think that Thailand is one of the best deals around.

Infrastructure

1. The roads work

2. The electricity works 99.99% of the time

3. Agreed the water supply is in the dry season a bit feeble, but a storage tank fixes that

4. You can eat any time of the day or night

5. International standard hospitals

6. Excellent and user friendly banking system

7. International travel, easy flights to just about anywhere.

8. Internal travel, good system of buses and a reasonable offering of flights.

UBC sucks, can't argue with that. Absolute crap service and far too expensive, hasn't improved in a decade. It is one reason why I can't see the point in buying a decent LCD TV.

Imported cars are more expensive, but pick-ups are not, small motorcycles are very cheap compared to even Malaysia, Kawasaki offer since 18 months a nice range of well priced models.

The internet runs great around here. Change your provider if you have an issue. And if you live out in the boonies, then don't expect the same level of service

Can't argue with the cheaply built houses but they are also sold cheap. The UK has a large stock of cheaply built houses and so does the US of A, and there you pay a fortune for squit all.

Ineptness of the corporations, government

Well, compared to the US, UK, Greece, Spain, Italy, Ireland etc., I think that the Thai government is doing a great job.

And maybe you hadn't noticed, but the economy of Thailand is also doing well, so the companies must also be doing something right.

Bangkok is a bit much, but everything is available and I never feel threatened walking around anywhere in Thailand, except maybe Patters, where the marauding bands of Euro-Trash-Pissheads make me feel uncomfortable.

But, take another closer look at the grass on the other side of the fence. I have, and it's much greener this side.

I totally agree with you ..if you don't like living in Thailand "LEAVE!!! GO BACK HOME" and see how far your £ $ € goes .....But most of all stop whinging about how badly done by you are .

[SAMCHAROEN]

I agree 100% ! I Love Muang Thai !

Edited June 10, 2010 by SAMCHAROEN

[kuffki]

You may be correct. Thailand has been way over priced, for what you get. The infrastructure is a joke. How many times does my power go out? Almost every time there's a gust of wind. Cars are more way more expensive, the internet sucks, so does UBC! Plus all the ugly, cheaply built houses and "resorts." Bangkok, I try to avoid the place, especially now. Maybe I'm in a bad mood or I just am getting sick of the ineptness of the corporations, government and xenophobia... I think my rant is over now? Hum, not sure....

Really, for what you pay I think that Thailand is one of the best deals around.

Infrastructure

1. The roads work

2. The electricity works 99.99% of the time

3. Agreed the water supply is in the dry season a bit feeble, but a storage tank fixes that

4. You can eat any time of the day or night

5. International standard hospitals

6. Excellent and user friendly banking system

7. International travel, easy flights to just about anywhere.

8. Internal travel, good system of buses and a reasonable offering of flights.

UBC sucks, can't argue with that. Absolute crap service and far too expensive, hasn't improved in a decade. It is one reason why I can't see the point in buying a decent LCD TV.

Imported cars are more expensive, but pick-ups are not, small motorcycles are very cheap compared to even Malaysia, Kawasaki offer since 18 months a nice range of well priced models.

The internet runs great around here. Change your provider if you have an issue. And if you live out in the boonies, then don't expect the same level of service

Can't argue with the cheaply built houses but they are also sold cheap. The UK has a large stock of cheaply built houses and so does the US of A, and there you pay a fortune for squit all.

Ineptness of the corporations, government

Well, compared to the US, UK, Greece, Spain, Italy, Ireland etc., I think that the Thai government is doing a great job.

And maybe you hadn't noticed, but the economy of Thailand is also doing well, so the companies must also be doing something right.

Bangkok is a bit much, but everything is available and I never feel threatened walking around anywhere in Thailand, except maybe Patters, where the marauding bands of Euro-Trash-Pissheads make me feel uncomfortable.

But, take another closer look at the grass on the other side of the fence. I have, and it's much greener this side.

I totally agree with you ..if you don't like living in Thailand "LEAVE!!! GO BACK HOME" and see how far your £ $ € goes .....But most of all stop whinging about how badly done by you are .

I am so sick and tired of reading comments like this!!! Who are you to tell people to stay or to go?

This is a public forum for people to express their views and opinions.

Just because you see sun shining out of cows ass it does not mean that everyone feels same way and some people are stuck here for a variety of reasons.

But just to shut all the lovers here are some facts

-Thai government requires for anyone applying for retiring visa to have 800 000 baht for the year.

-With current exchange rate this is AU$30769, US$25000,Euro 20500

-This is same if not more then the average salary in mentioned country's before tax

From personal expenses, without too much partying i am at 1000 000 baht per year.

Unless you are a multi millioneer and in dollars not baht-this country is very very expensive, unless of course you do not mind living in a card box and eating pigs intestines for dinner.

Yes Thailand is expensive and yes services are crap.

Some who never had any better find it acceptable and love it and others who know better can make a comparison.

[12DrinkMore]

I am so sick and tired of reading comments like this!!! Who are you to tell people to stay or to go?

This is a public forum for people to express their views and opinions.

This topic appears at regular intervals. And he was only expressing his opinion that if one is not entirely happy with the situation in Thailand, then maybe one should consider moving somewhere else.

Just because you see sun shining out of cows ass it does not mean that everyone feels same way and some people are stuck here for a variety of reasons.

But just to shut all the lovers here are some facts

-Thai government requires for anyone applying for retiring visa to have 800 000 baht for the year.

-With current exchange rate this is AU$30769, US$25000,Euro 20500

-This is same if not more then the average salary in mentioned country's before tax

But you are not required to spend that amount in one year. It is IMO, a reasonable amount to expect somebody to have to pay living expenses and a reserve for emergencies.

From personal expenses, without too much partying i am at 1000 000 baht per year.

Unless you are a multi millioneer and in dollars not baht-this country is very very expensive, unless of course you do not mind living in a card box and eating pigs intestines for dinner.

Yes Thailand is expensive and yes services are crap.

Some who never had any better find it acceptable and love it and others who know better can make a comparison.

Well, dropping a million each year is up there with Euro levels. But how much would you have to spend to live the same lifestyle in the West, with the same freedom?

The majority of people I know get by very nicely on 30 to 50k Baht/month.

I know that this discussion is not going to go anywhere, because I have seen it many times before. But whatever, most people are very happy living modest affordable lives in comfort, and other people seem to expect the high end of Western standards but at Thai prices. Living a high end Western lifestyle in Thailand is going to be expensive. It is also expensive in the West. Anybody earning an average salary in the West is going to be struggling to pay the bills, and can only dream about living the life one can live in Thailand on 1,000,000 Baht/year.

[banglay]

I am so sick and tired of reading comments like this!!! Who are you to tell people to stay or to go?

This is a public forum for people to express their views and opinions.

This topic appears at regular intervals. And he was only expressing his opinion that if one is not entirely happy with the situation in Thailand, then maybe one should consider moving somewhere else.

Just because you see sun shining out of cows ass it does not mean that everyone feels same way and some people are stuck here for a variety of reasons.

But just to shut all the lovers here are some facts

-Thai government requires for anyone applying for retiring visa to have 800 000 baht for the year.

-With current exchange rate this is AU$30769, US$25000,Euro 20500

-This is same if not more then the average salary in mentioned country's before tax

But you are not required to spend that amount in one year. It is IMO, a reasonable amount to expect somebody to have to pay living expenses and a reserve for emergencies.

From personal expenses, without too much partying i am at 1000 000 baht per year.

Unless you are a multi millioneer and in dollars not baht-this country is very very expensive, unless of course you do not mind living in a card box and eating pigs intestines for dinner.

Yes Thailand is expensive and yes services are crap.

Some who never had any better find it acceptable and love it and others who know better can make a comparison.

Well, dropping a million each year is up there with Euro levels. But how much would you have to spend to live the same lifestyle in the West, with the same freedom?

The majority of people I know get by very nicely on 30 to 50k Baht/month.

I know that this discussion is not going to go anywhere, because I have seen it many times before. But whatever, most people are very happy living modest affordable lives in comfort, and other people seem to expect the high end of Western standards but at Thai prices. Living a high end Western lifestyle in Thailand is going to be expensive. It is also expensive in the West. Anybody earning an average salary in the West is going to be struggling to pay the bills, and can only dream about living the life one can live in Thailand on 1,000,000 Baht/year.

Well said

[kuffki]

I am so sick and tired of reading comments like this!!! Who are you to tell people to stay or to go?

This is a public forum for people to express their views and opinions.

This topic appears at regular intervals. And he was only expressing his opinion that if one is not entirely happy with the situation in Thailand, then maybe one should consider moving somewhere else.

Just because you see sun shining out of cows ass it does not mean that everyone feels same way and some people are stuck here for a variety of reasons.

But just to shut all the lovers here are some facts

-Thai government requires for anyone applying for retiring visa to have 800 000 baht for the year.

-With current exchange rate this is AU$30769, US$25000,Euro 20500

-This is same if not more then the average salary in mentioned country's before tax

But you are not required to spend that amount in one year. It is IMO, a reasonable amount to expect somebody to have to pay living expenses and a reserve for emergencies.

From personal expenses, without too much partying i am at 1000 000 baht per year.

Unless you are a multi millioneer and in dollars not baht-this country is very very expensive, unless of course you do not mind living in a card box and eating pigs intestines for dinner.

Yes Thailand is expensive and yes services are crap.

Some who never had any better find it acceptable and love it and others who know better can make a comparison.

Well, dropping a million each year is up there with Euro levels. But how much would you have to spend to live the same lifestyle in the West, with the same freedom?

The majority of people I know get by very nicely on 30 to 50k Baht/month.

I know that this discussion is not going to go anywhere, because I have seen it many times before. But whatever, most people are very happy living modest affordable lives in comfort, and other people seem to expect the high end of Western standards but at Thai prices. Living a high end Western lifestyle in Thailand is going to be expensive. It is also expensive in the West. Anybody earning an average salary in the West is going to be struggling to pay the bills, and can only dream about living the life one can live in Thailand on 1,000,000 Baht/year.

What you say is true, but personally and i think many people move to a country such as Thailand to improve their life style not other way around.

Of course people get by on 30K-50K, Thais also get by on 6K

But again why bother to move to another country unless you can improve your life style.

A decent 1-2 bedroom condo in BKK or Pattaya or Chiang Mai to rent does cost 20K-30K already, of of course 1 can rent a tiny little room for 5K but then again in my case i moved over not to live in a hole but enjoy my life.

Bills alone monthly are 8K-10K, plus decent food, drinks, clothing etc.

Do not forget insurances, petrol,

So yes it is doable but what kind of life will one have? and what would be the purpose of making a change?!

[12DrinkMore]

What you say is true, but personally and i think many people move to a country such as Thailand to improve their life style not other way around.

Of course people get by on 30K-50K, Thais also get by on 6K

But again why bother to move to another country unless you can improve your life style.

A decent 1-2 bedroom condo in BKK or Pattaya or Chiang Mai to rent does cost 20K-30K already, of of course 1 can rent a tiny little room for 5K but then again in my case i moved over not to live in a hole but enjoy my life.

Bills alone monthly are 8K-10K, plus decent food, drinks, clothing etc.

Do not forget insurances, petrol,

So yes it is doable but what kind of life will one have? and what would be the purpose of making a change?!

Gawd, where do I start?

Right, people move to Thailand for a better lifestyle. I think we agree on that.

Now, for a whole lot of people, me included, renting a small bungalow with a bedroom, kitchen, lounge and a very nice tropical garden is absolutely paradise. And it costs maybe 4,000 to 8,000 Baht/month. The whole year I can sit outside wearing shorts and a t-shirt, even if it is pouring with rain. 1 km away I have a beach. And I admit it, I have a very nice Thai lady who looks after me extremely well. Washing, cooking, massages, cleaning always smiling and attractive to have around. She also has a circle of friends who come around and they mash papaya and salty crabs, sitting around giggling and laughing for hours.

I can sit on my veranda and am surrounded by flowers and trees, a few mountains in the distance. Supermarkets are five minutes walk away. I do not want to waste my money on living in a concrete box in the sky with no social contact with the neighbours.

I have a small motorcycle and can reach all my friends in minutes, have a few beers and ride back without being worried about police checks.

Now, what could I expect in the UK? I don't even want to start a list, the cold, the authorities, the taxes, the misery, the loneliness and superficial "friends", the lack of respect for people and property.

So for me life is about experiences, being with friends, enjoying the day to day life and watching the plants grow, a simple lifestyle. It is not about high profile living in Bangkok or Pattaya, running a Benz and chasing dreams about whether the next girl is the ONE. Been there, done the bars, it's all the same and ends in frustration.

Those are the reasons why almost all of the people I know live here. And why a lot of the people I know in Euroland would like to come here. And people actually SMILE here and I have never, in fifteen years, been treated with disrespect.

And it seems that your power is working OK and the internet is also up and running, so things can't be that bad? So where is the grass greener? In my tropical garden or in the cold wastes of the UK?

The subsistence lifestyle I would have on some 40,000 baht/month in the the UK comes nowhere near the lifestyle I have here for that money.

Edited June 10, 2010 by 12DrinkMore

[souvenirdeparis]

You may be correct. Thailand has been way over priced, for what you get. The infrastructure is a joke. How many times does my power go out? Almost every time there's a gust of wind. Cars are more way more expensive, the internet sucks, so does UBC! Plus all the ugly, cheaply built houses and "resorts." Bangkok, I try to avoid the place, especially now. Maybe I'm in a bad mood or I just am getting sick of the ineptness of the corporations, government and xenophobia... I think my rant is over now? Hum, not sure....

Really, for what you pay I think that Thailand is one of the best deals around.

Infrastructure

1. The roads work

2. The electricity works 99.99% of the time

3. Agreed the water supply is in the dry season a bit feeble, but a storage tank fixes that

4. You can eat any time of the day or night

5. International standard hospitals

6. Excellent and user friendly banking system

7. International travel, easy flights to just about anywhere.

8. Internal travel, good system of buses and a reasonable offering of flights.

UBC sucks, can't argue with that. Absolute crap service and far too expensive, hasn't improved in a decade. It is one reason why I can't see the point in buying a decent LCD TV.

Imported cars are more expensive, but pick-ups are not, small motorcycles are very cheap compared to even Malaysia, Kawasaki offer since 18 months a nice range of well priced models.

The internet runs great around here. Change your provider if you have an issue. And if you live out in the boonies, then don't expect the same level of service

Can't argue with the cheaply built houses but they are also sold cheap. The UK has a large stock of cheaply built houses and so does the US of A, and there you pay a fortune for squit all.

Ineptness of the corporations, government

Well, compared to the US, UK, Greece, Spain, Italy, Ireland etc., I think that the Thai government is doing a great job.

And maybe you hadn't noticed, but the economy of Thailand is also doing well, so the companies must also be doing something right.

Bangkok is a bit much, but everything is available and I never feel threatened walking around anywhere in Thailand, except maybe Patters, where the marauding bands of Euro-Trash-Pissheads make me feel uncomfortable.

But, take another closer look at the grass on the other side of the fence. I have, and it's much greener this side.

"""Well, compared to the US, UK, Greece, Spain, Italy, Ireland etc., I think that the Thai government is doing a great job."" I fancy imagining Sarkozy's big mouthed govt, including foreign affair's Kouchner , suddenly transplanted in BKK and having to deal with the situation including the border 'disputes' and friendly China ; bet they'd tone down their humanitarian rhetorics .

BTW it's Sarko who talked Merkel into bailing Greece out, thus infuriating the hard-working German electorate ( the French have had so much they don't even feel the pain and won't react at paying for the Greek) only reason I can think of is Obama made him sink the euro by sending advisors pretending it would help exports .

The Thaï tourists I see in France care for twelve euros less than me for 1200 bahts

NoFrench I know speaks of any travel abroad whatsoever this year.

[kuffki]

What you say is true, but personally and i think many people move to a country such as Thailand to improve their life style not other way around.

Of course people get by on 30K-50K, Thais also get by on 6K

But again why bother to move to another country unless you can improve your life style.

A decent 1-2 bedroom condo in BKK or Pattaya or Chiang Mai to rent does cost 20K-30K already, of of course 1 can rent a tiny little room for 5K but then again in my case i moved over not to live in a hole but enjoy my life.

Bills alone monthly are 8K-10K, plus decent food, drinks, clothing etc.

Do not forget insurances, petrol,

So yes it is doable but what kind of life will one have? and what would be the purpose of making a change?!

Gawd, where do I start?

Right, people move to Thailand for a better lifestyle. I think we agree on that.

Now, for a whole lot of people, me included, renting a small bungalow with a bedroom, kitchen, lounge and a very nice tropical garden is absolutely paradise. And it costs maybe 4,000 to 8,000 Baht/month. The whole year I can sit outside wearing shorts and a t-shirt, even if it is pouring with rain. 1 km away I have a beach. And I admit it, I have a very nice Thai lady who looks after me extremely well. Washing, cooking, massages, cleaning always smiling and attractive to have around. She also has a circle of friends who come around and they mash papaya and salty crabs, sitting around giggling and laughing for hours.

I can sit on my veranda and am surrounded by flowers and trees, a few mountains in the distance. Supermarkets are five minutes walk away. I do not want to waste my money on living in a concrete box in the sky with no social contact with the neighbours.

I have a small motorcycle and can reach all my friends in minutes, have a few beers and ride back without being worried about police checks.

Now, what could I expect in the UK? I don't even want to start a list, the cold, the authorities, the taxes, the misery, the loneliness and superficial "friends", the lack of respect for people and property.

So for me life is about experiences, being with friends, enjoying the day to day life and watching the plants grow, a simple lifestyle. It is not about high profile living in Bangkok or Pattaya, running a Benz and chasing dreams about whether the next girl is the ONE. Been there, done the bars, it's all the same and ends in frustration.

Those are the reasons why almost all of the people I know live here. And why a lot of the people I know in Euroland would like to come here. And people actually SMILE here and I have never, in fifteen years, been treated with disrespect.

And it seems that your power is working OK and the internet is also up and running, so things can't be that bad? So where is the grass greener? In my tropical garden or in the cold wastes of the UK?

The subsistence lifestyle I would have on some 40,000 baht/month in the the UK comes nowhere near the lifestyle I have here for that money.

Sorry never lived in UK so really can not comment on taxes and everything else and i hope you realize not everyone living in Thailand comes from UK, there are other country's in the world that have beaches and mountains

"You have never been treated with disrespect"??? Where do you live on deserted land?

As a foreigner you get disrespected the moment you step off the plane, but

Anyhow this is not what this tread is about

[12DrinkMore]

"""Well, compared to the US, UK, Greece, Spain, Italy, Ireland etc., I think that the Thai government is doing a great job."" I fancy imagining Sarkozy's big mouthed govt, including foreign affair's Kouchner , suddenly transplanted in BKK and having to deal with the situation including the border 'disputes' and friendly China ; bet they'd tone down their humanitarian rhetorics .

BTW it's Sarko who talked Merkel into bailing Greece out, thus infuriating the hard-working German electorate ( the French have had so much they don't even feel the pain and won't react at paying for the Greek) only reason I can think of is Obama made him sink the euro by sending advisors pretending it would help exports .

The Thaï tourists I see in France care for twelve euros less than me for 1200 bahts

NoFrench I know speaks of any travel abroad whatsoever this year.

Bonsoir,

Yes, Westerners would have had a totally different approach.

Any Thai tourists you meet abroad are not short of the odd Euro or Baht. There are some very very wealthy Thais around, and, when they go travelling they are not shy in spending the money.

The cause and effect of the rapid depreciation of the Euro is something that I am trying to understand. Maybe the great US of A did not want to lose their source of deficit funding, so targeting the main competition namely the EUR through the rating agencies and GS& Co seems to have resulted in a massive flow of cash to US treasuries. But certainly the exporters from Europe will benefit from the falling Euro. Although in the end, once inflation has been imported through the devalued currency and, as you point out, the now increasingly expensive foreign holidays for the Europeans, who will benefit in the end?

[12DrinkMore]

Sorry never lived in UK so really can not comment on taxes and everything else and i hope you realize not everyone living in Thailand comes from UK, there are other country's in the world that have beaches and mountains

I've lived in several countries, but nowhere as nice and affordable as Thailand

"You have never been treated with disrespect"??? Where do you live on deserted land?

As a foreigner you get disrespected the moment you step off the plane, but

Anyhow this is not what this tread is about

Now that has got me reflecting. And I think it would take me quite a long time to try and put it all together.

However, I also went through that phase, basically, I think, in my newbie days by being poisoned by a few "old hands" who came out with such statements, and I sort of correlated them to my experiences and looked for reinforcements.

Now I believe that if you try to fit in, make an effort to speak Thai, treat people with respect and understand and respect the Thai way of doing things, then you will be respected. Respect has to be earned.

There are, however, a substantial number of foreign visitors who think they are superior by birthright and go around behaving so. Insisting on their "rights", walking around in supermarkets wearing Speedo's and no shirts, shouting, getting drunk in public, and constantly complaining about this, that and the other because in Farangland things worked differently, so why aren't the Thais the same.

As an example, there was a European shouting at my Bangkok Bank manager, a very nice and helpful lady, because a transfer he had made did not go through on time. It was not her fault, and he was obviously frustrated because he had to speak in English, not his native language and she could hardly understand him, even though she speaks quite good English, probably better than he could.

I have travelled pretty much all over Thailand, and have met a whole lot of very nice people, the vast majority of whom will go out of their way to be very helpful. The areas where I meet the "disrespect" you are talking about are in the main tourist areas of BKK, Pattaya and Phuket. And if you observe the behaviour of some of the tourists there, you'll begin to see why. They simply do not deserve respect.

And in those areas we are all unfortunately all lumped into the same pot.

[el jefe]

You may be correct. Thailand has been way over priced, for what you get. The infrastructure is a joke. How many times does my power go out? Almost every time there's a gust of wind. Cars are more way more expensive, the internet sucks, so does UBC! Plus all the ugly, cheaply built houses and "resorts." Bangkok, I try to avoid the place, especially now. Maybe I'm in a bad mood or I just am getting sick of the ineptness of the corporations, government and xenophobia... I think my rant is over now? Hum, not sure....

Really, for what you pay I think that Thailand is one of the best deals around.

Infrastructure

1. The roads work

2. The electricity works 99.99% of the time

3. Agreed the water supply is in the dry season a bit feeble, but a storage tank fixes that

4. You can eat any time of the day or night

5. International standard hospitals

6. Excellent and user friendly banking system

7. International travel, easy flights to just about anywhere.

8. Internal travel, good system of buses and a reasonable offering of flights.

UBC sucks, can't argue with that. Absolute crap service and far too expensive, hasn't improved in a decade. It is one reason why I can't see the point in buying a decent LCD TV.

Imported cars are more expensive, but pick-ups are not, small motorcycles are very cheap compared to even Malaysia, Kawasaki offer since 18 months a nice range of well priced models.

The internet runs great around here. Change your provider if you have an issue. And if you live out in the boonies, then don't expect the same level of service

Can't argue with the cheaply built houses but they are also sold cheap. The UK has a large stock of cheaply built houses and so does the US of A, and there you pay a fortune for squit all.

Ineptness of the corporations, government

Well, compared to the US, UK, Greece, Spain, Italy, Ireland etc., I think that the Thai government is doing a great job.

And maybe you hadn't noticed, but the economy of Thailand is also doing well, so the companies must also be doing something right.

Bangkok is a bit much, but everything is available and I never feel threatened walking around anywhere in Thailand, except maybe Patters, where the marauding bands of Euro-Trash-Pissheads make me feel uncomfortable.

But, take another closer look at the grass on the other side of the fence. I have, and it's much greener this side.

I totally agree with you ..if you don't like living in Thailand "LEAVE!!! GO BACK HOME" and see how far your £ $ € goes .....But most of all stop whinging about how badly done by you are .

I am so sick and tired of reading comments like this!!! Who are you to tell people to stay or to go?

This is a public forum for people to express their views and opinions.

Just because you see sun shining out of cows ass it does not mean that everyone feels same way and some people are stuck here for a variety of reasons.

But just to shut all the lovers here are some facts

-Thai government requires for anyone applying for retiring visa to have 800 000 baht for the year.

-With current exchange rate this is AU$30769, US$25000,Euro 20500

-This is same if not more then the average salary in mentioned country's before tax

From personal expenses, without too much partying i am at 1000 000 baht per year.

Unless you are a multi millioneer and in dollars not baht-this country is very very expensive, unless of course you do not mind living in a card box and eating pigs intestines for dinner.

Yes Thailand is expensive and yes services are crap.

Some who never had any better find it acceptable and love it and others who know better can make a comparison.

Where do you come up with your "facts" and statistics????

Do you really think the average salary in the US is less than US$25,000?! The actual amount is over $43,000:

May 2009 National Occupational Employment and Wage Estimates

Household income in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

btw, that's the median salary. The average salary is higher still.

The Thai gov't asking someone to prove they have $25,000 to their name (without asking them to spend a single satang), seems to be a reasonable request before granting a retirement visa.

Jimi007 stated his opinion. 12DrinkMore and Banglay stated theirs. They're all entitled to their opinions. I happen to agree with 12DrinkMore and Banglay. But I'm dumbfounded by the posters who continue to say things like Thailand "is very very expensive" and "services are crap", yet they continue to live here when there are so many better and cheaper places to live.

Edited June 10, 2010 by el jefe

[seanocasey]

Jim Rogers thinks the Euro is oversold and when everyone is bearish yes its time to buy.

[clip]

The dooms of Farang Euro after the Dollars is here now. It's time for Cheap Charlie Farang Tourist to start counting their coins and stay put in their country than becoming a bump philospher around the bars in Sukhumvit.

You may be correct. Thailand has been way over priced, for what you get. The infrastructure is a joke. How many times does my power go out? Almost every time there's a gust of wind. Cars are more way more expensive, the internet sucks, so does UBC! Plus all the ugly, cheaply built houses and "resorts." Bangkok, I try to avoid the place, especially now. Maybe I'm in a bad mood or I just am getting sick of the ineptness of the corporations, government and xenophobia... I think my rant is over now? Hum, not sure....

hey jimi , why do you say ubc sucks ?? i just signed up for it !! YIKES !!

[seanocasey]

Jim Rogers thinks the Euro is oversold and when everyone is bearish yes its time to buy.

thanks say that.

[LaoPo]

Jim Rogers thinks the Euro is oversold and when everyone is bearish yes its time to buy.

Yes, could be but one should have a little patience, waiting for a gain, IMO:

Now May Be the Time to Buy the Euro: Jim Rogers

EU Debt Crisis - Now May Be the Time to Buy the Euro: Jim Rogers - CNBC

LaoPo

[Jimi007]

The dooms of Farang Euro after the Dollars is here now. It's time for Cheap Charlie Farang Tourist to start counting their coins and stay put in their country than becoming a bump philospher around the bars in Sukhumvit.

You may be correct. Thailand has been way over priced, for what you get. The infrastructure is a joke. How many times does my power go out? Almost every time there's a gust of wind. Cars are more way more expensive, the internet sucks, so does UBC! Plus all the ugly, cheaply built houses and "resorts." Bangkok, I try to avoid the place, especially now. Maybe I'm in a bad mood or I just am getting sick of the ineptness of the corporations, government and xenophobia... I think my rant is over now? Hum, not sure....

hey jimi , why do you say ubc sucks ?? i just signed up for it !! YIKES !!

Overpriced, few channels, a lot of old shows. No World Cup in english. But I like them at this moment. NBA Championships are on. Go Lakers! All of two HD channels for even more. They gave us the Golf Channel for "free" with the Platinum package, then want to charge 150 Baht more a month starting in July. I pay over 2,000 a month for the Platinum Package and then they start this al a cart service. Whenever they add channels, they charge more for each one. You would think you would get everything with their premier package, but no....

[Jimi007]

The dooms of Farang Euro after the Dollars is here now. It's time for Cheap Charlie Farang Tourist to start counting their coins and stay put in their country than becoming a bump philospher around the bars in Sukhumvit.

You may be correct. Thailand has been way over priced, for what you get. The infrastructure is a joke. How many times does my power go out? Almost every time there's a gust of wind. Cars are more way more expensive, the internet sucks, so does UBC! Plus all the ugly, cheaply built houses and "resorts." Bangkok, I try to avoid the place, especially now. Maybe I'm in a bad mood or I just am getting sick of the ineptness of the corporations, government and xenophobia... I think my rant is over now? Hum, not sure....

hey jimi , why do you say ubc sucks ?? i just signed up for it !! YIKES !!

Overpriced, few channels, a lot of old shows. No World Cup in english. But I like them at this moment. NBA Championships are on. Go Lakers! All of two HD channels for even more. They gave us the Golf Channel for "free" with the Platinum package, then want to charge 150 Baht more a month starting in July. I pay over 2,000 a month for the Platinum Package and then they start this al a cart service. Whenever they add channels, they charge more for each one. You would think you would get everything with their premier package, but no.... Plus they are pretty much a monopoly. My cable TV is even worse, but it's only 350 Baht a month for 85 channels, more old shows, few sports and poor signal quality.

Edited June 11, 2010 by Jimi007

[Jimi007]

Oh yeah I almost forgot, their on screen program guide, at least with this newer receiver they gave me, is pretty poor. It only gives program an hour ahead of the current program, plus it's often wrong. Their printed guide is wrong a lot of times as well.