England World Cup Discussion Thread

[LaoPo]

And Laopo the English are more the critical of their team so no need to come out with some cr4p that we're in denial and just make up excuses.

English fans are some of the harshest critics of the England team. Laopo is just looking for any reason he can as to why people are so disgusted with Robben. In his mind it can't be because the man cheated and in doing so helped Holland to win the game, it must be because these people are sore losers. Go figure...

No, I'm not looking for any reason......; you're making this out of the conversation.

I never said that Robben didn't cheat but I'm not the referee. I also wrote that the English supporters still feel bad about Robben's performance during his stay in England but that he improved a lot during his stay in Muenchen under Van Gaal. They didn't win the title and cup with just slides and dives Rixalex, You probably didn't follow the German league very well.

It's your own interpretation and I think you're exaggerating that he helped Holland to win the game. Now, that's something only a bad loser would say

Sneijder made the 2 goals against Brazil, not Robben, and that one of those goals came out of a free kick situation BECAUSE of a dive of Robben....? so be it. That's football all about.

The world cup goes on Rixalex, whether you like it or not and whether you like Robben's dives or not, he's still one of the best players in Europe, probably the world

LaoPo

[hansum]

And Laopo the English are more the critical of their team so no need to come out with some cr4p that we're in denial and just make up excuses.

English fans are some of the harshest critics of the England team. Laopo is just looking for any reason he can as to why people are so disgusted with Robben. In his mind it can't be because the man cheated and in doing so helped Holland to win the game, it must be because these people are sore losers. Go figure...

No, I'm not looking for any reason......; you're making this out of the conversation.

I never said that Robben didn't cheat but I'm not the referee. I also wrote that the English supporters still feel bad about Robben's performance during his stay in England but that he improved a lot during his stay in Muenchen under Van Gaal. They didn't win the title and cup with just slides and dives Rixalex, You probably didn't follow the German league very well.

It's your own interpretation and I think you're exaggerating that he helped Holland to win the game. Now, that's something only a bad loser would say

Sneijder made the 2 goals against Brazil, not Robben, and that one of those goals came out of a free kick situation BECAUSE of a dive of Robben....? so be it. That's football all about.

The world cup goes on Rixalex, whether you like it or not and whether you like Robben's dives or not, he's still one of the best players in Europe, probably the world

LaoPo

I never knew Robben dived in England and i doubt 99.9% of English people remember or are aware as it happens so much these days ... Gerrards quite good at it for Liverpool, but i couldnt really give a shyt what goes on at the top of the league as its just a plaything for foreign billionares, i hope it ruined the season for all of them ...Anyway I will be hoping the Dutch beat Uruguay as it was a referee from this country that denied England a clear goal that would have changed the direction of the game against a German side i dont believe is as great as what people are making them out to be.

But cheating, diving etc... does seem to be going on more and more and its ruining football lets hope they bring in 10-20 game bans for persistant offenders when TV replays start being used.

[mommysboy]

Ok i confess to not being a weatherman ..... but isnt the reason clubs in many parts of Europe get a winter break more to do with the fact their winter is far colder then the relatively mild English winter, as opposed to it being for resting players.

And Laopo the English are more the critical of their team so no need to come out with some cr4p that we're in denial and just make up excuses.

One reason they didnt look too fit is most had either just come back from long term injuries, had niggly injuries or in Barrys case he's overweight so unable to run and is not really very good.

Once again Lao Pao you seemed to have missed the fact that Germany for instance has a winter break, allowing the players to recover.

Hansum_ I don't know the cause but it's the effect I'm talking about, ie, well rested players, or at least ones that are not so tired. And tiredness is a valid excuse it just takes that something vital away from you.

But of course I think it's a disgrace, and shame on the players if I may say so, absolute rubbish tournament after tournament. They could at least produce something!!!

And I think it's also to do with the whole English footballing culture which produces under achievers who get paid top dollar regardless.

One criticism of Capello is that he picked old and slow players and showed a lack of faith in promoting youngsters to the squad. But it's not his fault we played like <deleted>!

[LaoPo]

Ok i confess to not being a weatherman ..... but isnt the reason clubs in many parts of Europe get a winter break more to do with the fact their winter is far colder then the relatively mild English winter, as opposed to it being for resting players.

And Laopo the English are more the critical of their team so no need to come out with some cr4p that we're in denial and just make up excuses.

One reason they didnt look too fit is most had either just come back from long term injuries, had niggly injuries or in Barrys case he's overweight so unable to run and is not really very good.

Once again Lao Pao you seemed to have missed the fact that Germany for instance has a winter break, allowing the players to recover.

Hansum_ I don't know the cause but it's the effect I'm talking about, ie, well rested players, or at least ones that are not so tired. And tiredness is a valid excuse it just takes that something vital away from you.

But of course I think it's a disgrace, and shame on the players if I may say so, absolute rubbish tournament after tournament. They could at least produce something!!!

And I think it's also to do with the whole English footballing culture which produces under achievers who get paid top dollar regardless.

One criticism of Capello is that he picked old and slow players and showed a lack of faith in promoting youngsters to the squad. But it's not his fault we played like <deleted>!

I agree with you here but disagree about your last sentence in bold blue.

I don't know who's responsible for making him the English manager but a guy like Capello who was used winning country titles with 4 city clubs like Milano, Torino, Roma and in Spain, Madrid, in the Southern European Mediterranean hemisphere isn't necessarily a good coach for a completely different playing COUNTRY team like England.

He never coached a national team and England should reconsider his position.

He's absolutely responsible for England's team and IMO he should resign. He has -more than- enough money and should leave the door open for younger and brighter managers/coaches than himself.

He's 64....

LaoPo

[smokie36]

This one's for you LaoPo......

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyv3PJs-KBw

[LaoPo]

And this is for the Robben lovers and haters.....

It's quite obvious why so many football players become frustrated by Robben's skills...he is probably one of the world's best dribblers and makes the defenders crazy with his abilities and no wonder he's tackled and stamped so many times.

Arjen Robben Goals Skills and Assists

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=00EOL8YlboE&feature=related

LaoPo

[rixalex]

He's absolutely responsible for England's team and IMO he should resign. He has -more than- enough money and should leave the door open for younger and brighter managers/coaches than himself.

On this we are in complete agreement for a change. Buck has to stop somewhere. Why not with the man paid a staggering sum to get results?

He certainly took the credit for England's long run of wins in the qualifiers, so why now should he not take the blame for failure?

[rixalex]

I never knew Robben dived in England and i doubt 99.9% of English people remember or are aware as it happens so much these days ...

Anyone who follows Premiership football remembers Robben's antics.

His first year at Chelsea i was gutted he hadn't joined United. He was electric with his runs and scored a lot too. Then came his second year and as his performances dropped off, his cheating got worse. I was relieved we hadn't signed him.

[rixalex]

Sneijder made the 2 goals against Brazil, not Robben, and that one of those goals came out of a free kick situation BECAUSE of a dive of Robben....? so be it. That's football all about.

That might be what football is all about to you, it's NOT to me. Cheating angers me more than anything else in the game. If you are on the receiving end it most likely will anger you too.

Making excuses for it and refusing to condemn it or the player who commits it, just because it's your team, is double standards. If one of my teams is guilty - and they have been in the past, (as sadly most teams have) - you won't find me hiding behind weak justifications. I'll come straight out and say it and condemn it.

[StevieH]

Ok i confess to not being a weatherman ..... but isnt the reason clubs in many parts of Europe get a winter break more to do with the fact their winter is far colder then the relatively mild English winter, as opposed to it being for resting players.

And Laopo the English are more the critical of their team so no need to come out with some cr4p that we're in denial and just make up excuses.

One reason they didnt look too fit is most had either just come back from long term injuries, had niggly injuries or in Barrys case he's overweight so unable to run and is not really very good.

no, it's nothing to do with the weather. spain has a winter break for example.

the english league / FA had the opportunity at the formation of the premiership to reduce the league to 18 teams and install a winter break to give players more rest so benefiting the national team. they didn't do it because club chairmen are fundamentally greedy and driven only by money so saw reduced numbers of matches as lost revenues.

[StevieH]

On this we are in complete agreement for a change. Buck has to stop somewhere. Why not with the man paid a staggering sum to get results?

He certainly took the credit for England's long run of wins in the qualifiers, so why now should he not take the blame for failure?

well then why not stop with the people who appointed capello? the ones who seem serially incapable of appointing a manager who can get more out of english players and also the ones who are responsible for the development of young players in the country?

That might be what football is all about to you, it's NOT to me. Cheating angers me more than anything else in the game. If you are on the receiving end it most likely will anger you too.

Making excuses for it and refusing to condemn it or the player who commits it, just because it's your team, is double standards. If one of my teams is guilty - and they have been in the past, (as sadly most teams have) - you won't find me hiding behind weak justifications. I'll come straight out and say it and condemn it.

english people do seem to get upset about 'cheating' much more than other nations' fans. it's a part of the game, whether you're talking about deliberate fouling, handballs, diving or timewasting. some countries and players are just better at it than others.

[rixalex]

english people do seem to get upset about 'cheating' much more than other nations' fans. it's a part of the game, whether you're talking about deliberate fouling, handballs, diving or timewasting. some countries and players are just better at it than others.

If it was part of the game, it wouldn't be against the laws of it. It is. The only reason it happens is because the referees miss it. Give them the some more assistance, such as video replays - yes i know you're against that Stevie - and it could be almost eliminated.

[suiging]

Sadly it seems now only a minority of English people get up set over cheating. May well have something to do with the extraordinary numbers of people who say they would leave the country if given a chance.

[StevieH]

english people do seem to get upset about 'cheating' much more than other nations' fans. it's a part of the game, whether you're talking about deliberate fouling, handballs, diving or timewasting. some countries and players are just better at it than others.

If it was part of the game, it wouldn't be against the laws of it. It is. The only reason it happens is because the referees miss it. Give them the some more assistance, such as video replays - yes i know you're against that Stevie - and it could be almost eliminated.

you're talking about one infringement of the rules though and it sounds extremely petty. don't you feel the same way about deliberate fouling? or about deliberate handballs? because they're every bit as cynical and equally as much cheating as diving is.

cheating / conning / playacting is part of the game and has been for decades.

[rixalex]

english people do seem to get upset about 'cheating' much more than other nations' fans. it's a part of the game, whether you're talking about deliberate fouling, handballs, diving or timewasting. some countries and players are just better at it than others.

If it was part of the game, it wouldn't be against the laws of it. It is. The only reason it happens is because the referees miss it. Give them the some more assistance, such as video replays - yes i know you're against that Stevie - and it could be almost eliminated.

you're talking about one infringement of the rules though and it sounds extremely petty. don't you feel the same way about deliberate fouling? or about deliberate handballs? because they're every bit as cynical and equally as much cheating as diving is.

cheating / conning / playacting is part of the game and has been for decades.

Where did i say i was talking about one infringement? I was talking about every kind of method of cheating. Hate it and refuse to shrug my shoulders like you and accept it. There is a way of almost entirely eliminating it. I support that because whatever the negatives there may be (ie slowing the game down), they can't be worse than the negatives of the current injustice we see.

[StevieH]

english people do seem to get upset about 'cheating' much more than other nations' fans. it's a part of the game, whether you're talking about deliberate fouling, handballs, diving or timewasting. some countries and players are just better at it than others.

If it was part of the game, it wouldn't be against the laws of it. It is. The only reason it happens is because the referees miss it. Give them the some more assistance, such as video replays - yes i know you're against that Stevie - and it could be almost eliminated.

you're talking about one infringement of the rules though and it sounds extremely petty. don't you feel the same way about deliberate fouling? or about deliberate handballs? because they're every bit as cynical and equally as much cheating as diving is.

cheating / conning / playacting is part of the game and has been for decades.

Where did i say i was talking about one infringement? I was talking about every kind of method of cheating. Hate it and refuse to shrug my shoulders like you and accept it. There is a way of almost entirely eliminating it. I support that because whatever the negatives there may be (ie slowing the game down), they can't be worse than the negatives of the current injustice we see.

you want to use video replays for fouls too? and handballs? seriously? because they're no different from diving.

fouling and for want of a better word 'cheating' are part of the game. that a minority of fans like yourself who feel some misplaced sense of moral outrage cannot accept that it is not a reason to bring in video replays for every, single infringement.

[koheesti]

On this we are in complete agreement for a change. Buck has to stop somewhere. Why not with the man paid a staggering sum to get results?

He certainly took the credit for England's long run of wins in the qualifiers, so why now should he not take the blame for failure?

well then why not stop with the people who appointed Capella? the ones who seem serially incapable of appointing a manager who can get more out of English players and also the ones who are responsible for the development of young players in the country?

That might be what football is all about to you, it's NOT to me. Cheating angers me more than anything else in the game. If you are on the receiving end it most likely will anger you too.

Making excuses for it and refusing to condemn it or the player who commits it, just because it's your team, is double standards. If one of my teams is guilty - and they have been in the past, (as sadly most teams have) - you won't find me hiding behind weak justifications. I'll come straight out and say it and condemn it.

English people do seem to get upset about 'cheating' much more than other nations' fans. it's a part of the game, whether you're talking about deliberate fouling, handballs, diving or time wasting. some countries and players are just better at it than others.

Well, it must be our common history because Americans hate the diving/cheating part probably more than the English. That whole "part of the game" excuse is a lame. It's part of the game all right - just like getting being the victim of a crime is part of life. When you win by cheating, you didn't prove you are better at football even if you do advance or win a trophy. Competition is supposed to be about who is better at something playing within the rules established before-hand. Cheating defeats the entire purpose and severe penalties should be handed out to violators. I'd let the Wahibi Saudis come up with the penalties then stick to it.

[bkkjames]

On this we are in complete agreement for a change. Buck has to stop somewhere. Why not with the man paid a staggering sum to get results?

He certainly took the credit for England's long run of wins in the qualifiers, so why now should he not take the blame for failure?

well then why not stop with the people who appointed Capella? the ones who seem serially incapable of appointing a manager who can get more out of English players and also the ones who are responsible for the development of young players in the country?

That might be what football is all about to you, it's NOT to me. Cheating angers me more than anything else in the game. If you are on the receiving end it most likely will anger you too.

Making excuses for it and refusing to condemn it or the player who commits it, just because it's your team, is double standards. If one of my teams is guilty - and they have been in the past, (as sadly most teams have) - you won't find me hiding behind weak justifications. I'll come straight out and say it and condemn it.

English people do seem to get upset about 'cheating' much more than other nations' fans. it's a part of the game, whether you're talking about deliberate fouling, handballs, diving or time wasting. some countries and players are just better at it than others.

Well, it must be our common history because Americans hate the diving/cheating part probably more than the English. That whole "part of the game" excuse is a lame. It's part of the game all right - just like getting being the victim of a crime is part of life. When you win by cheating, you didn't prove you are better at football even if you do advance or win a trophy. Competition is supposed to be about who is better at something playing within the rules established before-hand. Cheating defeats the entire purpose and severe penalties should be handed out to violators. I'd let the Wahibi Saudis come up with the penalties then stick to it.

Well, I think this thread has run it's course Jock? England out, manager is staying. American offensive line men (NFL) hold on every down .... it's settled

[StevieH]

On this we are in complete agreement for a change. Buck has to stop somewhere. Why not with the man paid a staggering sum to get results?

He certainly took the credit for England's long run of wins in the qualifiers, so why now should he not take the blame for failure?

well then why not stop with the people who appointed Capella? the ones who seem serially incapable of appointing a manager who can get more out of English players and also the ones who are responsible for the development of young players in the country?

That might be what football is all about to you, it's NOT to me. Cheating angers me more than anything else in the game. If you are on the receiving end it most likely will anger you too.

Making excuses for it and refusing to condemn it or the player who commits it, just because it's your team, is double standards. If one of my teams is guilty - and they have been in the past, (as sadly most teams have) - you won't find me hiding behind weak justifications. I'll come straight out and say it and condemn it.

English people do seem to get upset about 'cheating' much more than other nations' fans. it's a part of the game, whether you're talking about deliberate fouling, handballs, diving or time wasting. some countries and players are just better at it than others.

Well, it must be our common history because Americans hate the diving/cheating part probably more than the English. That whole "part of the game" excuse is a lame. It's part of the game all right - just like getting being the victim of a crime is part of life. When you win by cheating, you didn't prove you are better at football even if you do advance or win a trophy. Competition is supposed to be about who is better at something playing within the rules established before-hand. Cheating defeats the entire purpose and severe penalties should be handed out to violators. I'd let the Wahibi Saudis come up with the penalties then stick to it.

ok, same question to you then - do you also want to remove fouling, handballs, offsides and every other infraction of the games laws which carries a penalty, from the game? because they're all 'cheating' by your definition but are all also intrinsic parts of the game.

football isn't perfect, the reason it's so loved is actually that it is imperfect.

[bkkjames]

 Stevie, the reason that it is so loved is it costs nothing to play from the minute you start walking. I have got my son dribbling with both feet but his throw-ins are <deleted>.

[hansum]

the english league / FA had the opportunity at the formation of the premiership to reduce the league to 18 teams and install a winter break to give players more rest so benefiting the national team. they didn't do it because club chairmen are fundamentally greedy and driven only by money so saw reduced numbers of matches as lost revenues.<br />

But there are pointless group matches in the Champions League and Uefa cup that should go first, then make the crap National teams of European football qualify for competitions thus making less pointless qualifying games .... then if this isnt enough look into scrapping the League Cup.

You must be aware that in the winter breaks the clubs from Spain and Germany fly to the Middle East for friendly games so theyre certainly not putting their feet up.

Most the top leagues have 20 teams ... Italy raised it from 18 to 20 and won the WC ...... To take 4 matches away from top flight football in theory would take close to 10% of a clubs revenue, so no club is going to go for that ... plus fans would much rather 4 more league games then get to watch Man United against some team who came runners up in a non entity league, in a game theyre pretty much guaranteed to get a result.

[StevieH]

Stevie, the reason that it is so loved is it costs nothing to play from the minute you start walking. I have got my son dribbling with both feet but his throw-ins are &lt;deleted&gt;.

no james, that's the reason that people play football. the reason that it is loved, and obsessed about, and talked, moaned and enthused about in every bar you walk into anywhere in the world is that it is imperfect. mistakes are part of the game's makeup and attraction and are responsible for some of the most enduring football images from history. the minute you remove mistakes from football it loses its soul.

[bkkjames]

Stevie, the reason that it is so loved is it costs nothing to play from the minute you start walking. I have got my son dribbling with both feet but his throw-ins are &lt;deleted&gt;.

no james, that's the reason that people play football. the reason that it is loved, and obsessed about, and talked, moaned and enthused about in every bar you walk into anywhere in the world is that it is imperfect. mistakes are part of the game's makeup and attraction and are responsible for some of the most enduring football images from history. the minute you remove mistakes from football it loses its soul.

we will always disagree on this one stevie. I believe technology has improved a great many sports and they are just as loved as they ever were - if not more so. I am not talking about diving - I am talking about missed calls  - like offsides and balls that are 1 metre over the goal line. I would love the sport a lot more if they could implement the technologies to assist the refs do their jobs. That goal fiasco at the world cup doesn't make the world love the sport more - it makes the world question it. That being said, when I saw the goal by Lampard live, I had a hard time telling if it crossed the line. About 500 million people sat up and said what a crock of shit.

Did people stop going to / watching Wimbledon, Rugby, the Superbowl because they put in a little technology to assist the refs.

Always there will be a resistance to change - that's human nature. 

[rixalex]

Stevie, the reason that it is so loved is it costs nothing to play from the minute you start walking. I have got my son dribbling with both feet but his throw-ins are &lt;deleted&gt;.

no james, that's the reason that people play football. the reason that it is loved, and obsessed about, and talked, moaned and enthused about in every bar you walk into anywhere in the world is that it is imperfect. mistakes are part of the game's makeup and attraction and are responsible for some of the most enduring football images from history. the minute you remove mistakes from football it loses its soul.

we will always disagree on this one stevie. I believe technology has improved a great many sports and they are just as loved as they ever were - if not more so. I am not talking about diving - I am talking about missed calls - like offsides and balls that are 1 metre over the goal line. I would love the sport a lot more if they could implement the technologies to assist the refs do their jobs. That goal fiasco at the world cup doesn't make the world love the sport more - it makes the world question it. That being said, when I saw the goal by Lampard live, I had a hard time telling if it crossed the line. About 500 million people sat up and said what a crock of shit.

Did people stop going to / watching Wimbledon, Rugby, the Superbowl because they put in a little technology to assist the refs.

Always there will be a resistance to change - that's human nature.

Well said James. Completely agree.

[rixalex]

you want to use video replays for fouls too? and handballs? seriously? because they're no different from diving.

fouling and for want of a better word 'cheating' are part of the game. that a minority of fans like yourself who feel some misplaced sense of moral outrage cannot accept that it is not a reason to bring in video replays for every, single infringement.

Fouls and handballs are a form of cheating, yes, that's true, but they usually get dealt with by the ref at the time. The problem we are discussing here concerns the type of cheating that is hard for the ref to identify and to make a decision on in the split second he is afforded.

As far as using video replays for every single infringement that occurs in a game, you have taken things to an extreme. Video technology i agree needs to be introduced in a measured and controlled fashion. There needs to be parameters. There are many different thoughts on how it could be used and i can see merit in a number of different ideas. One suggestion is allowing the manager to "go to the video ref" after a decision he has disagreed with. Obviously there would need to be limits on what offences it could be used for and the number of times a manager can ask for it.

Goal line technology that gives the ref a signal to his watch when the ball has crossed the line is a complete no brainer.

I don't claim to have it all worked out in terms of how video technology might be used, i just know that in some form it could be used and would help enormously in making games more just.

Your theory that injustice is why people love the game i'm not buying for one second.

[Sparkles]

There was a lengthy discussion on this forum months ago about introducing some video technology.In the case of the Lampard goal, or not a goal, the referee would simply speak into his mike, to the oficial in the video room and ask "was that over the line" To which he would have replied ,yes... a goal should be awarded. It would take no longer than 30 secs.Can there be anything simpler? In Rugby,League and Union,nearly all video officials are ex referees and the introduction, many years ago, has never been questioned.

[LaoPo]

Sneijder made the 2 goals against Brazil, not Robben, and that one of those goals came out of a free kick situation BECAUSE of a dive of Robben....? so be it. That's football all about.

That might be what football is all about to you, it's NOT to me. Cheating angers me more than anything else in the game. If you are on the receiving end it most likely will anger you too.

Making excuses for it and refusing to condemn it or the player who commits it, just because it's your team, is double standards. If one of my teams is guilty - and they have been in the past, (as sadly most teams have) - you won't find me hiding behind weak justifications. I'll come straight out and say it and condemn it.

Really Rixalex, I'm getting a bit tired by your constant discussion-attacks about cheating, by whomever.

Maybe I missed it but the BIGGEST CHEAT on this tournament has been committed by the German goalkeeper when he grabbed that bloody ball when it bounced up-and-bounced-down again ON the line from BEHIND the goal-line and thus CHEATING BIG TIME on England since that goal was a 100% goal for England.

If he would have been a Gentleman's "fair play" football player, he would have given the ball away, acknowledging that he saw that the ball was behind the line and admitting he KNEW that ball was a goal Rixalex But...you and I know that's not the way the game is played nowadays and the only thing what has been done is that Blatter apologized and sent the Referee's team home.

Yet, you keep on talking about Robben but I didn't see you discussing the greatest cheat in the World Cup so far, possibly taking away a chance for England to reach the next stage.

No doubt there will be a YouTube video after the world cup about the greatest cheats during the World Cup 2010 and I can guarantee you here and now that the German Goalkeeper is on #1, next to Suarez's handball stop against Ghana, indirectly responsible for Ghana's defeat. But personally I don;t qualify that as a cheat since it was a reflex action by Suarez but maybe you think differently.

Robben's dive(s) will be low on the list; there are many more cheats I can't even remember just quickly now but you, being a cheating-specialist, I'm sure, have made a list already

LaoPo

[rixalex]

^ The discussion-attack as you call it would have been over immediately had you straight off the bat come out and said that you too were saddened by Robben's behaviour and admitted that whilst it might not have been the winning factor, it was a factor that changed the game. You didn't. You played it down. You tried to justify it by saying that cheating was common place.

[Old Man River]

Sneijder made the 2 goals against Brazil, not Robben, and that one of those goals came out of a free kick situation BECAUSE of a dive of Robben....? so be it. That's football all about.

That might be what football is all about to you, it's NOT to me. Cheating angers me more than anything else in the game. If you are on the receiving end it most likely will anger you too.

Making excuses for it and refusing to condemn it or the player who commits it, just because it's your team, is double standards. If one of my teams is guilty - and they have been in the past, (as sadly most teams have) - you won't find me hiding behind weak justifications. I'll come straight out and say it and condemn it.

Really Rixalex, I'm getting a bit tired by your constant discussion-attacks about cheating, by whomever.

Maybe I missed it but the BIGGEST CHEAT on this tournament has been committed by the German goalkeeper when he grabbed that bloody ball when it bounced up-and-bounced-down again ON the line from BEHIND the goal-line and thus CHEATING BIG TIME on England since that goal was a 100% goal for England.

If he would have been a Gentleman's "fair play" football player, he would have given the ball away, acknowledging that he saw that the ball was behind the line and admitting he KNEW that ball was a goal Rixalex But...you and I know that's not the way the game is played nowadays and the only thing what has been done is that Blatter apologized and sent the Referee's team home.

Yet, you keep on talking about Robben but I didn't see you discussing the greatest cheat in the World Cup so far, possibly taking away a chance for England to reach the next stage.

No doubt there will be a YouTube video after the world cup about the greatest cheats during the World Cup 2010 and I can guarantee you here and now that the German Goalkeeper is on #1, next to Suarez's handball stop against Ghana, indirectly responsible for Ghana's defeat. But personally I don;t qualify that as a cheat since it was a reflex action by Suarez but maybe you think differently.

Robben's dive(s) will be low on the list; there are many more cheats I can't even remember just quickly now but you, being a cheating-specialist, I'm sure, have made a list already

LaoPo

In golf, players call penalties on themselves, costing themselves hundreds of thousands (sometimes millions) of dollars. In soccer, players flop all over the place, grabbing themselves in all sorts of places complaining they have been fouled although they haven't been touched.

Soccer is not a gentleman's game, like golf. Hence, the German goalie's play was very much within the tradition of World Cup play. Get over it. In World Cup tradition, it was a good play.

[rixalex]

Maybe I missed it but the BIGGEST CHEAT on this tournament has been committed by the German goalkeeper when he grabbed that bloody ball when it bounced up-and-bounced-down again ON the line from BEHIND the goal-line and thus CHEATING BIG TIME on England since that goal was a 100% goal for England.

If he would have been a Gentleman's "fair play" football player, he would have given the ball away, acknowledging that he saw that the ball was behind the line and admitting he KNEW that ball was a goal

The German goalkeeper did not cheat. All he did was play on. It's not up to the players to officiate. Players play to the whistle and to follow the orders of the ref. Of course it would be gentlemanly for players to admit and tell the ref when he gets it wrong, but nobody is really naive enough to expect this to happen. Because it doesn't does not mean the players are cheats.

No doubt there will be a YouTube video after the world cup about the greatest cheats during the World Cup 2010 and I can guarantee you here and now that the German Goalkeeper is on #1, next to Suarez's handball stop against Ghana, indirectly responsible for Ghana's defeat. But personally I don;t qualify that as a cheat since it was a reflex action by Suarez but maybe you think differently.

Yes i do think differently. The handball was cheating. It denied a certain goal and the punishment from that was a penalty plus a red card - neither of these punishments guarantees getting back the goal that was stolen from you. What's fair about that?

Reflex action excuse is a cop out.