England World Cup Discussion Thread

[mommysboy]

Another World Cup bites the dust and yet ANOTHER coach is a native of the winning country.There hasn't been one occasion that a foreigner has coached a victorious team,so why is it that the F.A flew in the face of convention and employed Capello? Is it because foreign coaches are so much more tactically astute than our home grown lot?Is it just the fashionable thing to do now? Why is it easier for a manager from overseas to slip into the club format and produce success yet not in the international arena? Is it the nationalistic element that makes it impossible for them to succeed? Does anyone of our so called elite want the job anyway?Or are we looking in the wrong places for our national coaches? How would some young talent from the Football League fair with better players at his disposal? Would he do any worse than say Keegan,Hoddle,Venables and McClaren achieved?Overated or not,our lot seemed totally disinterested in the whole event.The issue of changing the captain has been mooted for our failure and the fact that England (fans,media and players) places great importance on this position. Why is this so when Germany,for instance,lost theirs before the World Cup yet there was no angst or wringing of hands by them?Before the competition,Ballack,as a player,would have been seen as a big loss but now we know it was probably a blessing in disguise as they played with freedom and pace.Philip Lahm took over but their was no screaming,clenched fists and histrionics from him,he went quietly about his business as did Van Bronkhorst for Holland.So is the captain of England an over rated position?It doesn't help when another manager pokes his nose into the proceedings by claiming that the weight of expectation on Rooney's shoulders was the reason why he hasn't performed.Protecting your asset's value were you,Alex?So who believed that nonsense?It didn't have the desired effect because he was even worse against Germany.What about the 'weight of expectation' on classier players like Ronaldo and Messi? I didn't hear their club coaches crawling out of the woodwork in their defence because none was needed.They weren't at their absolute best but still played their part,unlike our cossetted,pampered 'stars'.

Nice history lesson Git, not sure why you need to bring SAF into it? But since you brought it up, let's talk about the effect JT had on this team over the last year and including during the WC.

The most divisive figure to wear an England kit in decades. Capello should have booted him out post Wayne Bridge saga and by his performances and behavior during the WC, would have been justified.

Maybe SAF was brought in to it because he professes a hate of international football and crippled our best player for the finals. I hope Man UTD anfd the like have truly craX seasons for evermore.

[hansum]

For a start SGE actually has one of the best track records as England manager, and Capello has a a good winning rate too.!!

But Sven had in many peoples view the best group of players England have ever had at their peaks, and all he done was get to the quarter finals.

And are you just arguing for the sake of it in defending Capello? We had a p7ss easy qualifying group, but since then I cant see one decent decision he's made at this WC from his squad selection onwards.

[mommysboy]

For a start SGE actually has one of the best track records as England manager, and Capello has a a good winning rate too.!!

But Sven had in many peoples view the best group of players England have ever had at their peaks, and all he done was get to the quarter finals.

And are you just arguing for the sake of it in defending Capello? We had a p7ss easy qualifying group, but since then I cant see one decent decision he's made at this WC from his squad selection onwards.

No, I'm saying how can all the managers be bad? be they English or not!

For many years I thought it was about the quality of our football.

And then to some extent sheer bad luck regarding injuries and decisions ( which is also true).

But for sure, England's downfall is the Football League, and its insane time-table.

[mommysboy]

hansum- sorry I forgot to say - it doesn't matter how good they are, they are no good if fatigued.

[hansum]

hansum- sorry I forgot to say - it doesn't matter how good they are, they are no good if fatigued.

You may forget but last winter was one of the worst in England for years and many top flights games got cancelled so the players did get a rest .... Bayern Munich got a break but they go to the Middle East to play several exhibition matches.

Beckham and Rooney have gone to recent tournaments and played when blatantly injured, this isnt fatigued its bad managerial decisions ... Barry, King, JCole, originally Ferdinand and no doubt others at this tournament.

England players play no more then any other in the top leagues, theyre rested for all league Cup games and most FA cup games aswell as being in huge squads so they can miss games at appropriate times ... but if this theory is correct then 4 of the Dutch team should have been knackered throughout this tournament.

My theory is that since 1996/98 they havent had a group of players that can play together ... or at least had a manager willing to pick players in their correct position ... too many square pegs in round holes for too long, and Capello to my amazement was worse then Sven when it came to the tournament .... ie taking Wright Phillips and Lennon who are almost identical right footed players instead of A Johnson or Downing who are left footers.

Edited July 12, 2010 by hansum

[tigerfish]

hansum- sorry I forgot to say - it doesn't matter how good they are, they are no good if fatigued.

You may forget but last winter was one of the worst in England for years and many top flights games got cancelled so the players did get a rest .... Bayern Munich got a break but they go to the Middle East to play several exhibition matches.

Beckham and Rooney have gone to recent tournaments and played when blatantly injured, this isnt fatigued its bad managerial decisions ... Barry, King, JCole, originally Ferdinand and no doubt others at this tournament.

England players play no more then any other in the top leagues, theyre rested for all league Cup games and most FA cup games aswell as being in huge squads so they can miss games at appropriate times ... but if this theory is correct then 4 of the Dutch team should have been knackered throughout this tournament.

My theory is that since 1996/98 they havent had a group of players that can play together ... or at least had a manager willing to pick players in their correct position ... too many square pegs in round holes for too long, and Capello to my amazement was worse then Sven when it came to the tournament .... ie taking Wright Phillips and Lennon who are almost identical right footed players instead of A Johnson or Downing who are left footers.

ok. hansum.

take the 4 premier league based players that played in the final.

kuyt, rvp, torres and fabregas.

yes the may have made it to the finals with their respective teams, but they didnt exactly set the world a light with their footballing skills and contribute much over the duration of the tournament. did they?

3 out of the 4 were returning from or suffering with injuries.

i think rvp scored once, kuyt did or didnt(i cant remember at this moment in time, but it wasnt more than one) and the other 2 from spain didnt even get a sniff because they hardly played. and 3 of them are out and strickers while the other one is a prolific midfield goal scorer with his club.

so what do you put the reason down as for not performing better?

Edited July 12, 2010 by tigerfish

[mommysboy]

Capello, SVE, Beckenbauer, and Mancini have all stated this argument. Maybe Grant has chipped in too. Capello simply said that they were not the same players as those he had during qualification, referring to their condition, and called for a winter break. Are they all wrong then?

England also have gifted players that are basically crocks, eg, King and Ferdinand, that's what we do to our players. They also have players who have experienced bad injuries and it takes ages to recover from them really! J.Cole is just not the same player as before and possibly Walcott and Lennon play with fear too.

The English based foreign players did not perform too well IMHO, perhaps Tevez was ok for a game or 2. Rooney looked shattered, and Torres a pale shadow of his self, Kuyt was ok only, and Fabregas understated, they all had tough seasons.

I certainly was also puzzled as to why Downing and Johnson were overlooked, and clearly there are other factors to consider such as diaruptive influences in the squad.

I hope Capello is brave enough to simply not select/play players who are unfit next time round- Rooney should not really have been on the pitch this time (just like last time). What other nation would do this? we beat ourelves before the match has even started.

[mommysboy]

Capello, SVE, Beckenbauer, and Mancini have all stated this argument. Maybe Grant has chipped in too. Capello simply said that they were not the same players as those he had during qualification, referring to their condition, and called for a winter break. Are they all wrong then?

England also have gifted players that are basically crocks, eg, King and Ferdinand, that's what we do to our players. They also have players who have experienced bad injuries and it takes ages to recover from them really! J.Cole is just not the same player as before and possibly Walcott and Lennon play with fear too.

The English based foreign players did not perform too well IMHO, perhaps Tevez was ok for a game or 2. Rooney looked shattered, and Torres a pale shadow of his self, Kuyt was ok only, and Fabregas understated, they all had tough seasons.

I certainly was also puzzled as to why Downing and Johnson were overlooked, and clearly there are other factors to consider such as diaruptive influences in the squad.

I hope Capello is brave enough to simply not select/play players who are unfit next time round- Rooney should not really have been on the pitch this time (just like last time). What other nation would do this? we beat ourelves before the match has even started.

[StevieH]

Come off it! To blame the shortcomings of the England team on foreign coaches is just plain silly!!!!

For a start SGE actually has one of the best track records as England manager, and Capello has a a good winning rate too.!!

The League system is to blame by about 60% IMHO, and after that people like those pairofunts Terry and Cole A.

Don't get me wrong personally I would have like Redknapp in charge, I saw him develop at Bournemouth. But Capello is an excellent coach.

calm down dear. the question was 'why did england appoint capello, is it because foreign coaches are so much more tactically astute than our home grown lot?' to which the answer is 'yep'.

that the majority of english players are technically inept and tactically incapable is a whole other discussion.

[StevieH]

ok. hansum.

take the 4 premier league based players that played in the final.

kuyt, rvp, torres and fabregas.

yes the may have made it to the finals with their respective teams, but they didnt exactly set the world a light with their footballing skills and contribute much over the duration of the tournament. did they?

3 out of the 4 were returning from or suffering with injuries.

i think rvp scored once, kuyt did or didnt(i cant remember at this moment in time, but it wasnt more than one) and the other 2 from spain didnt even get a sniff because they hardly played. and 3 of them are out and strickers while the other one is a prolific midfield goal scorer with his club.

so what do you put the reason down as for not performing better?

kuyt scored one and had a fine tournament - probably the best world cup of any premier league-based player, give or take a ryan nelsen.

[bkkjames]

ok. hansum.

take the 4 premier league based players that played in the final.

kuyt, rvp, torres and fabregas.

yes the may have made it to the finals with their respective teams, but they didnt exactly set the world a light with their footballing skills and contribute much over the duration of the tournament. did they?

3 out of the 4 were returning from or suffering with injuries.

i think rvp scored once, kuyt  did or didnt(i cant remember at this moment in time, but it wasnt more than one) and the other 2 from spain didnt even get a sniff because they hardly played. and 3 of them are out and strickers while the other one is a prolific midfield goal scorer with his club.

so what do you put the reason down as for not performing better?

kuyt scored one and had a fine tournament - probably the best world cup of any premier league-based player, give or take a ryan nelsen.

I thought Ryan Babel did his usual reliable job Stevie 

[StevieH]

yeah, best thing about babel was that he didn't knock any money off his market valuation.

[hansum]

<br>.<br>take the 4 premier league based players that played in the final.<br>kuyt, rvp, torres and fabregas.<br>yes the may have made it to the finals with their respective teams, but they didnt exactly set the world a light with their footballing skills and contribute much over the duration of the tournament. did they?<br>

<br>Not forgetting De Jong and Hetinger.<br><br>But no not many set the world cup on fire as the football was shyt .... but what your saying is that all national managers must live in fear that their players are going to go to England and burn themselves out.<br><br>If this is the case then surely all Cup Finals at the end of the season have players running around that are ready for the knackers yard.<br><br>And Capello has made a lot of excuses but none seem to be down to his mistakes.<br><br><br>

[hansum]

Come off it! To blame the shortcomings of the England team on foreign coaches is just plain silly!!!!

For a start SGE actually has one of the best track records as England manager, and Capello has a a good winning rate too.!!

The League system is to blame by about 60% IMHO, and after that people like those pairofunts Terry and Cole A.

Don't get me wrong personally I would have like Redknapp in charge, I saw him develop at Bournemouth. But Capello is an excellent coach.

calm down dear. the question was 'why did england appoint capello, is it because foreign coaches are so much more tactically astute than our home grown lot?' to which the answer is 'yep'.

that the majority of english players are technically inept and tactically incapable is a whole other discussion.

Oh yes Sven is a tactical genius, no English manager comes close to such a visionary.

The few English managers that have gone abroad that i can think of had all had instant success Robson, Mclaren, Venables im taking it this means they were just lucky against their superior rival coaches?

If these foreign managers are so good how come not one of them has managed to get a team finished above their predicted position (ie money spent) ... it took Spurs all these years to get 4th with an Englishman after a string of foreign managers. (though i believe that Dutchman may have done so before leaving them at the foot of the table) .... Though i wont include Wenger in this as he is imho head and shoulders above all managers no matter where theyre from.

And as for players being technically inept ... as a Nation id say we're not as good as we should be, but most of Englands best first 11 are as good technically as any other of the worlds best players ... its after that it gets scarce.

[StevieH]

Oh yes Sven is a tactical genius, no English manager comes close to such a visionary.

The few English managers that have gone abroad that i can think of had all had instant success Robson, Mclaren, Venables im taking it this means they were just lucky against their superior rival coaches?

If these foreign managers are so good how come not one of them has managed to get a team finished above their predicted position (ie money spent) ... it took Spurs all these years to get 4th with an Englishman after a string of foreign managers. (though i believe that Dutchman may have done so before leaving them at the foot of the table) .... Though i wont include Wenger in this as he is imho head and shoulders above all managers no matter where theyre from.

And as for players being technically inept ... as a Nation id say we're not as good as we should be, but most of Englands best first 11 are as good technically as any other of the worlds best players ... its after that it gets scarce.

same eriksson who has won the league in several different countries including italy yes? whether you like it or not the fact is that coaches from italy, spain, germany, holland and particularly france are better trained and better qualified than their english counterparts. the qualifications they have to pass to be a coach are simply more rigorous - in england it's usually enough to simply be an ex-player, such as the clueless shearer at newcastle. robson and venables were decent coaches who paid attention to the tactical side of the game and learned more progressive methods abroad - something more english coaches should do if they want to improve.

your last line just sounds like the usual tabloid crap about the england team by the way. most of england's first 11 simply aren't 'as good technically as any other of the world's best' as they keep proving in tournaments where they can't even complete ten yard passes to one another. they're more hyped than their opponents certainly - they're nowhere near as good footballers technically.

[Abrak]

I dont really know that much about football but I do find this whole 'Premiership stars' were knackered a little difficult to understand. I know they generally play more matches over the course of the year.

What I find difficult to understand is why when the Premiership ends on the 9th May, these guys are still 'knackered' 5 weeks later on 14th June. Of course the Group of players needs to learn to 'play as a team' and practice together but essentially they did a much better job of that on about 3 days notice during qualifying. If thePremiership schedule is a major part of the problem doesnt it also imply the squad was overtrained, overpractised, overcoached and overstretched in the run up to the tournament itself.

[hansum]

Oh yes Sven is a tactical genius, no English manager comes close to such a visionary.

The few English managers that have gone abroad that i can think of had all had instant success Robson, Mclaren, Venables im taking it this means they were just lucky against their superior rival coaches?

If these foreign managers are so good how come not one of them has managed to get a team finished above their predicted position (ie money spent) ... it took Spurs all these years to get 4th with an Englishman after a string of foreign managers. (though i believe that Dutchman may have done so before leaving them at the foot of the table) .... Though i wont include Wenger in this as he is imho head and shoulders above all managers no matter where theyre from.

And as for players being technically inept ... as a Nation id say we're not as good as we should be, but most of Englands best first 11 are as good technically as any other of the worlds best players ... its after that it gets scarce.

same eriksson who has won the league in several different countries including italy yes? whether you like it or not the fact is that coaches from italy, spain, germany, holland and particularly france are better trained and better qualified than their english counterparts. the qualifications they have to pass to be a coach are simply more rigorous - in england it's usually enough to simply be an ex-player, such as the clueless shearer at newcastle. robson and venables were decent coaches who paid attention to the tactical side of the game and learned more progressive methods abroad - something more english coaches should do if they want to improve.

your last line just sounds like the usual tabloid crap about the england team by the way. most of england's first 11 simply aren't 'as good technically as any other of the world's best' as they keep proving in tournaments where they can't even complete ten yard passes to one another. they're more hyped than their opponents certainly - they're nowhere near as good footballers technically.

Sven spent 100s of millions to win Serie A and almost bankrupted Lazio theyve never come close since his mass spending spree ... it was more to do with cash as opposed to his tactical genius which is a myth, he had the best players in the 2006 WC and he failed with them ... A lot of these players were the most important players in their clubs who had dominated champions league football at this time so they must have done something correct and please dont say this is more or less down to foreigners in the clubs as when Liverpool won the Champs League it was more or less down to Gerrard playing out of his skin.

And please stop coming out with your usual it sounds like tabloid line are you trying to tell me Gerrard Ferdinand Rooney ACole JCole Lampard are technically inadequate .... the richest team in Spain wishes to buy 3 of them, and will possibly get 2 of them in the coming weeks why would they wish to buy technically inferior players?

Im doubting Capello would have come to manage England if he didnt think they had the players that were good enough to win tournaments.

[hansum]

I dont really know that much about football but I do find this whole 'Premiership stars' were knackered a little difficult to understand. I know they generally play more matches over the course of the year.

They dont.

[mommysboy]

I dont really know that much about football but I do find this whole 'Premiership stars' were knackered a little difficult to understand. I know they generally play more matches over the course of the year.

They dont.

Well what is surely beyond dispute is that the English season is very long and does not have a formal break as in many other countries. That alone could be and probably is a factor. 3 days ago Bournemouth played Tottenham. It's the middle of summer!

[StevieH]

Sven spent 100s of millions to win Serie A and almost bankrupted Lazio theyve never come close since his mass spending spree ... it was more to do with cash as opposed to his tactical genius which is a myth, he had the best players in the 2006 WC and he failed with them ... A lot of these players were the most important players in their clubs who had dominated champions league football at this time so they must have done something correct and please dont say this is more or less down to foreigners in the clubs as when Liverpool won the Champs League it was more or less down to Gerrard playing out of his skin.

And please stop coming out with your usual it sounds like tabloid line are you trying to tell me Gerrard Ferdinand Rooney ACole JCole Lampard are technically inadequate .... the richest team in Spain wishes to buy 3 of them, and will possibly get 2 of them in the coming weeks why would they wish to buy technically inferior players?

Im doubting Capello would have come to manage England if he didnt think they had the players that were good enough to win tournaments.

sven spent money at lazio yes, but he was competing with milan, inter, juventus and others who all spent money. he didn't 'buy' the title there any more than he bought it in portugal or sweden. he's a good manager. 'he had the best players in the 2006 WC' is yet more hype and nonsense. and i think you'll find that far from 'dominating' the champions league at the time, liverpool in 2005 were the first team to win it since united in 1999.

please don't try and tell me why liverpool won the european cup in 2005 by the way, you just sound silly. gerrard had a fine game in the final but at least as important as him in that match were dietmar hamann and xabi alonso. for several of liverpool's best performances in that european cup run gerrard wasn't even playing.

england's players AREN'T good enough to win international tournaments, as they keep proving. i'm sorry but you do still sound like a tabloid journalist pathetically griping that 'well they're the best paid players in the world who play in the best league in the world so they should be capable of winning a world cup blah blah blah'. they keep on proving they're not up to it, even when coached by one of the very best managers around. through a combination of not being technically good enough to compete with teams which can play in different ways at the top level, being emotionally immature clowns who need their egos brushing 24 hours a day and being simply overpaid and overhyped, england will not come near winning a world cup for the foreseeable future - and this lot were supposed to be some kind of 'golden generation'. hype over substance as always.

[hansum]

Sven spent 100s of millions to win Serie A and almost bankrupted Lazio theyve never come close since his mass spending spree ... it was more to do with cash as opposed to his tactical genius which is a myth, he had the best players in the 2006 WC and he failed with them ... A lot of these players were the most important players in their clubs who had dominated champions league football at this time so they must have done something correct and please dont say this is more or less down to foreigners in the clubs as when Liverpool won the Champs League it was more or less down to Gerrard playing out of his skin.

And please stop coming out with your usual it sounds like tabloid line are you trying to tell me Gerrard Ferdinand Rooney ACole JCole Lampard are technically inadequate .... the richest team in Spain wishes to buy 3 of them, and will possibly get 2 of them in the coming weeks why would they wish to buy technically inferior players?

Im doubting Capello would have come to manage England if he didnt think they had the players that were good enough to win tournaments.

sven spent money at lazio yes, but he was competing with milan, inter, juventus and others who all spent money. he didn't 'buy' the title there any more than he bought it in portugal or sweden. he's a good manager. 'he had the best players in the 2006 WC' is yet more hype and nonsense. and i think you'll find that far from 'dominating' the champions league at the time, liverpool in 2005 were the first team to win it since united in 1999.

please don't try and tell me why liverpool won the european cup in 2005 by the way, you just sound silly. gerrard had a fine game in the final but at least as important as him in that match were dietmar hamann and xabi alonso. for several of liverpool's best performances in that european cup run gerrard wasn't even playing.

england's players AREN'T good enough to win international tournaments, as they keep proving. i'm sorry but you do still sound like a tabloid journalist pathetically griping that 'well they're the best paid players in the world who play in the best league in the world so they should be capable of winning a world cup blah blah blah'. they keep on proving they're not up to it, even when coached by one of the very best managers around. through a combination of not being technically good enough to compete with teams which can play in different ways at the top level, being emotionally immature clowns who need their egos brushing 24 hours a day and being simply overpaid and overhyped, england will not come near winning a world cup for the foreseeable future - and this lot were supposed to be some kind of 'golden generation'. hype over substance as always.

You seem to keep coming out with the tabloid journalism jibe yet dont go anywhere close to explaining why those players i listed dont have technical ability, when they play pivotal roles in some of the best and most successful teams in the world ... furthermore their is no need to make up lies up implying i think that because they are the best paid the should automatically win to back up your point of view.

But please come on explain technical ability?????? as this is the ultimate in media driven &lt;deleted&gt; about the best English players that youre clinging too .. .. is being able to control the ball, make esquisite aswell as simple passes and change the pace of the game to suit not technical ability as all those players i listed before have this ability ... or do they need the same kind of technical ability that De Jong and his fellow Dutch bruisers Van Bommell have?

I have never once said England would win this WC this is another load of &lt;deleted&gt; your implying ..... as imho the players were past their prime, half injured, not good enough, or just out of form aswell as the team lacking a top keeper ...... though as they had potentially a very easy route to the semi final i thought they might get lucky as both Italy and France with average ageing teams were 4 years ago .... but they should have done a lot better then they did and for this reason the manager must take some responsibility in that he made many strange selections (ie Milner on the left and no fit left footer in the squad) and picked a team that for years has shown they just dont seem to be able to play good football on a regular basis.

[mommysboy]

I dont really know that much about football but I do find this whole 'Premiership stars' were knackered a little difficult to understand. I know they generally play more matches over the course of the year.

They dont.

Are you sure they don't ?

Germany for instance has 18 premier teams versus 20 in England. In addition, I think they only have one domestic cup competition, and as far as I'm aware England is usually one of the most represented nations in the European competitions frequently featuring in various finals. Germany has a winter break too as we have discussed.

But even then for whatever reason, English players are just not arriving in an acceptable state, and it really doesn't matter about stats it's about what is really happening!

[hansum]

I dont really know that much about football but I do find this whole 'Premiership stars' were knackered a little difficult to understand. I know they generally play more matches over the course of the year.

They dont.

Are you sure they don't ?

Germany for instance has 18 premier teams versus 20 in England. In addition, I think they only have one domestic cup competition, and as far as I'm aware England is usually one of the most represented nations in the European competitions frequently featuring in various finals. Germany has a winter break too as we have discussed.

But even then for whatever reason, English players are just not arriving in an acceptable state, and it really doesn't matter about stats it's about what is really happening!

I read this a while back

http://news.bbc.co.u...ine/8783206.stm

"All our players were really tired at this competition," Fabio Capello said in the press conference that followed his team's defeat by Germany. It is a common perception that the English play too many games, with two domestic cup competitions as well as the Premier League. But is it an accurate one?

Looking at the number of matches the 22 players had been involved in, from the start of the season until kick-off in Bloemfontein on Sunday, it appears that the German starting XI had actually played more games than the English.

They played a total of 577 league, cup and international games, including friendlies. England's team played 555. Partial matches, such as substitute appearances, counted as full games.

But before England fans accuse Capello of using fatigue as an excuse for poor performance, they should consider two factors. One is that the German players enjoyed a winter break in the Bundesliga (their premier league).

And the other is that the Premier League is considered to be more fast, intense and physically draining than other leagues.

..................................................................................................

I cant agree that our leagues more physically draining then the Bundesliga ... if you run 10-12km or whatever it is a players runs during a game it isnt going to be more draining in England then in Germany.

Thing is i agree that some games should be taken from the calender ... firstly pointless games against San Marino and such teams (make WC and Euro qualifying groups have 4 or 5 teams in, that'll be 2 -4 less games a year) .... and also the many pointless games in both European cups ... again have less teams this will take another couple of pointless games no one is interested in away.

Players from the more succesful clubs dont play in the League Cup (except maybe in the Final) so altering this isnt going to make too much difference ... and the FANS like the Premier league and the amount of game played so leave it exactly how it is.

Edited July 13, 2010 by hansum

[mommysboy]

I dont really know that much about football but I do find this whole 'Premiership stars' were knackered a little difficult to understand. I know they generally play more matches over the course of the year.

They dont.

Are you sure they don't ?

Germany for instance has 18 premier teams versus 20 in England. In addition, I think they only have one domestic cup competition, and as far as I'm aware England is usually one of the most represented nations in the European competitions frequently featuring in various finals. Germany has a winter break too as we have discussed.

But even then for whatever reason, English players are just not arriving in an acceptable state, and it really doesn't matter about stats it's about what is really happening!

I read this a while back

http://news.bbc.co.u...ine/8783206.stm

"All our players were really tired at this competition," Fabio Capello said in the press conference that followed his team's defeat by Germany. It is a common perception that the English play too many games, with two domestic cup competitions as well as the Premier League. But is it an accurate one?

Looking at the number of matches the 22 players had been involved in, from the start of the season until kick-off in Bloemfontein on Sunday, it appears that the German starting XI had actually played more games than the English.

They played a total of 577 league, cup and international games, including friendlies. England's team played 555. Partial matches, such as substitute appearances, counted as full games.

But before England fans accuse Capello of using fatigue as an excuse for poor performance, they should consider two factors. One is that the German players enjoyed a winter break in the Bundesliga (their premier league).

And the other is that the Premier League is considered to be more fast, intense and physically draining than other leagues.

..................................................................................................

I cant agree that our leagues more physically draining then the Bundesliga ... if you run 10-12km or whatever it is a players runs during a game it isnt going to be more draining in England then in Germany.

Thing is i agree that some games should be taken from the calender ... firstly pointless games against San Marino and such teams (make WC Euro qualify groups have 4 or 5 teams in, that'll be 2 -4 less games a year) .... and also the many pointless games in the European cup ... again have less teams this will take another couple of pointless games no one is interested in away.

Players from the more succesful clubs dont play in the League Cup (except maybe in the Final) so altering this isnt going to make too much difference ... and the FANS like the Premier league and the amount of game played so leave it exactly how it is.

And continue to play craX at international level I guess, and in a nutshell I suppose we care more for the league than the national team so shouldn't really complain when it goes pair shaped as it invariably does and will.

I hope Capello uses bravery and fair judgement to drop players who he considers too tired, and perhaps uses fresher but less talentedted alternatives, it's the only practicable solution.

[hansum]

<br>And continue to play craX at international level I guess, and in a nutshell I suppose we care more for the league than the national team so shouldn't really complain when it goes pair shaped as it invariably does and will.

<br>Having 20 clubs hasnt done Spain in 2010, Italy in 2006, or France in 1998 any harm in winning the WC, but if Capello wants a break they should give him it but theyll still end up playing the same amount of games, its nicer to drive to games in the summer anyway ... but im sticking with the theory that these undoubtedly very good players just cant play as a team as many very good players in teams have failed in the past.

I hope Capello uses bravery and fair judgement to drop players who he considers too tired, and perhaps uses fresher but less talentedted alternatives, it's the only practicable solution.

Hope so its time for a huge overhaul starting with Lampard in the central midfield ..... there are a several very good youngsters out there at the moment.Everton have Rodwell, Arsenal have Wilkshire, Man City have A Johnson thats 3 that have already shown theyre up to the job, im sure we'll see a few more come through this season. Edited July 13, 2010 by hansum

[imola]

Oh yes Sven is a tactical genius, no English manager comes close to such a visionary.

The few English managers that have gone abroad that i can think of had all had instant success Robson, Mclaren, Venables im taking it this means they were just lucky against their superior rival coaches?

If these foreign managers are so good how come not one of them has managed to get a team finished above their predicted position (ie money spent) ... it took Spurs all these years to get 4th with an Englishman after a string of foreign managers. (though i believe that Dutchman may have done so before leaving them at the foot of the table) .... Though i wont include Wenger in this as he is imho head and shoulders above all managers no matter where theyre from.

And as for players being technically inept ... as a Nation id say we're not as good as we should be, but most of Englands best first 11 are as good technically as any other of the worlds best players ... its after that it gets scarce.

same eriksson who has won the league in several different countries including italy yes? whether you like it or not the fact is that coaches from italy, spain, germany, holland and particularly france are better trained and better qualified than their english counterparts. the qualifications they have to pass to be a coach are simply more rigorous - in england it's usually enough to simply be an ex-player, such as the clueless shearer at newcastle. robson and venables were decent coaches who paid attention to the tactical side of the game and learned more progressive methods abroad - something more english coaches should do if they want to improve.

your last line just sounds like the usual tabloid crap about the england team by the way. most of england's first 11 simply aren't 'as good technically as any other of the world's best' as they keep proving in tournaments where they can't even complete ten yard passes to one another. they're more hyped than their opponents certainly - they're nowhere near as good footballers technically.

[imola]

Oh yes Sven is a tactical genius, no English manager comes close to such a visionary.

The few English managers that have gone abroad that i can think of had all had instant success Robson, Mclaren, Venables im taking it this means they were just lucky against their superior rival coaches?

If these foreign managers are so good how come not one of them has managed to get a team finished above their predicted position (ie money spent) ... it took Spurs all these years to get 4th with an Englishman after a string of foreign managers. (though i believe that Dutchman may have done so before leaving them at the foot of the table) .... Though i wont include Wenger in this as he is imho head and shoulders above all managers no matter where theyre from.

And as for players being technically inept ... as a Nation id say we're not as good as we should be, but most of Englands best first 11 are as good technically as any other of the worlds best players ... its after that it gets scarce.

same eriksson who has won the league in several different countries including italy yes? whether you like it or not the fact is that coaches from italy, spain, germany, holland and particularly france are better trained and better qualified than their english counterparts. the qualifications they have to pass to be a coach are simply more rigorous - in england it's usually enough to simply be an ex-player, such as the clueless shearer at newcastle. robson and venables were decent coaches who paid attention to the tactical side of the game and learned more progressive methods abroad - something more english coaches should do if they want to improve.

your last line just sounds like the usual tabloid crap about the england team by the way. most of england's first 11 simply aren't 'as good technically as any other of the world's best' as they keep proving in tournaments where they can't even complete ten yard passes to one another. they're more hyped than their opponents certainly - they're nowhere near as good footballers technically.

id agree with most of that steve, however, "parti8cularly france" apart from aime jaquet in 98, im strugglin steve, paul le guen ??

guy roux ?? deschamps, leave it out?? lemerre ??? lived there 12 years and cant think of 1"in particular", aside perhaps elie baup

granted they may be better than the likes of pulis, brown, megson etc, but i cant recall any success worthy of note

[mommysboy]

Imola that's rubbish! Capello and many others have stated that technical prowess is not England's problems and I doubt you have any sincerity in the matter at all. And besides teams that can't play don't thrash teams like Croatia or qualify in style.

hansum- well maybe Low was just a bit shrewder in his choice of young talent. Much is made of Germany U21 winning the Euro Championship 4-0 against England, and for sure it was a stunning victory over England, but England got to the finals and had held Germany to a draw just a week earlier. We have the talent that's for sure.

[hansum]

Imola - You might also like to disagree with his made up story about foreign managers having more and better qualifications ... though im aware there is or were exemptions for older managers like fergie or temporary ones like Shearer.

Id accept that many coaches for kids teams havent got a clue and should be better educated in teaching kids but that a whole new thread.

http://www.givemefoo...-qualifications

Coaching Qualifications

• Level 5, UEFA Pro Licence (focus on how to manage)

A mandatory qualification for managing in the FA Premier League and UEFA competitions.

Invitation only, most candidates complete in 12 months

• Level 4, UEFA A Licence (focus on phases of play, 9v9 games and 11v11 match play)

Work as a manager/coach in the professional game, or Academy Manager.

Most candidates complete within 2 years.

• Level 3, UEFA B Licence (focus on functions, phases of play and 8v8 games)

Find work in Centres of Excellence and Academies

You have 2 years, but can usually be completed in 12-18 months

• Level 2, Certificate in Coaching Football (focus on techniques, skills and 4v4 games)

Find work in Football in the Community, local authorities, US soccer camps.

You have 2 years to complete, but it can be achieved in 6 months. You must start here.

• Level 1

Useful for local community work, and can be completed in a few weeks. Not a mandatory qualification, but a gentle introduction. We do not run Level 1 courses.

Edited July 13, 2010 by hansum

[Rooo]

I met a fairy today who granted me one wish.

"I want to live forever," I said.

"Sorry," said the fairy, "but I'm not allowed to grant that type of wish."

"Fine," I said, "Then I want to die when England win the world cup."

"You crafty bastard!" said the fairy.