Thai Government Tells US It's In Charge

[webfact]

Thai government tells US it's in charge

by Shaun Tandon

WASHINGTON (AFP) -- A special envoy from Thailand on Friday sought US support in the country's political crisis, discouraging the kingdom's longtime ally from trying to mediate in the wake of bloody street protests.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva dispatched Kiat Sittheeamorn to Washington to make the case that so-called Red Shirt protesters who occupied central Bangkok for weeks included armed and Marxist elements.

Kiat, who met with members of Congress and President Barack Obama's administration, said that the Thai government welcomed US "suggestions" but was pursuing its own reconciliation plan.

"We ourselves also see some difficulties in negotiating and discussing with the Red Shirts," Kiat told AFP. "If the US extends a helping hand, I don't know if it will have different results."

"There is also the risk that it might complicate the issue even further," said Kiat, who is Thailand's trade negotiator.

Kiat recalled Thailand's reaction to the September 11, 2001 attacks when "our friends were in trouble."

Did "we have concern that from now on we should advise our people not to come to the United States? Are we concerned that the United States government cannot handle the situation? Certainly not," he said.

"We always respect the decisions of any government; it's their right. But obviously it would be nice to see that... when your friends are in difficulties, we get all the support you can," he said.

The army broke up the Reds' rally on May 19 after weeks of protracted negotiations broke down. The clashes left 89 people dead.

During the crisis, Thailand summoned the US ambassador to protest after Kurt Campbell, the assistant secretary of state for East Asia, met Red Shirts on a brief visit to Bangkok.

Kiat said that while "the intention of Mr. Campbell is good," he believes that the State Department has since gained a "better understanding" of the situation.

Scot Marciel, Campbell's deputy in charge of Southeast Asia, told Congress that the United States has engaged all sides in Thailand and supported Abhisit's plan for reconciliation.

"The United States can be a source of support as the Thai work to resolve the issues that still divide them, but it is the Thai people themselves who must make the difficult choices on how to proceed," Marciel said.

The reconciliation plan includes early elections, although Kiat said they were unlikely to be held this year.

Marciel admitted that in 25 years working on Southeast Asia, "I'm not sure I've encountered a situation as complex as the one in Thailand right now in terms of trying to understand the politics."

The Red Shirts include rural Thais who say they are disenfranchised by the political system. Some 36 buildings were torched in the mayhem last month, including the stock exchange.

Kiat said that some Red Shirts had "legitimate grievances," but they did not constitute a "straight-forward demonstration" as they included armed groups and "Marxist-Leninist ideologists."

Senator Jim Webb, who heads the Foreign Relations subcommittee on East Asia, recently visited Thailand and agreed that aspects of the Red Shirts were "classic Marxist."

"You had the incitement of people based on poor versus the rich in a country that has made enormous advances over the last 30 years," Webb said.

Thailand is one of the oldest allies of the United States and assisted during the Vietnam and Iraq wars.

Catharin Dalpino, director of the Thai studies program at Georgetown University, said the United States had a stake in Thailand's stability but needed to exercise restraint.

Unlike many other countries since the Cold War, Thailand transitioned to democracy without foreign involvement, she said.

"The current political situation is still highly charged and extremely complex and high-profile attempts by an external actor to change the dynamic are likely to be counter-productive. Moreover, it runs counter to Thai sensitivities," she said.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2010-06-12

[KireB]

Not so sure our American friends will appreciate the following quote!

"Kiat recalled Thailand's reaction to the September 11, 2001 attacks when "our friends were in trouble."

"Do we have concern that from now on we should advise our people not to come to the United States? Are we concerned that the United States government cannot handle the situation? Certainly not," he said."

[mazeltov]

The Irrawaddy has published a letter US senator Jim Weeb wrote to U.S. Secretary of State Hilary Clinton. Webb visit recently the region and writes about North Korea, Burma and also Thailand.

I will quote only the beginning, introducing and the part where he writes about Thailand.

"Dear Secretary Clinton:

In my capacity as chairman of the Senate Foreign Relations East Asian and Pacific Affairs Subcommittee, I visited Korea and Thailand last week to assess the current situation in both of those countries, as well as in the region. I had also intended to visit Burma on this trip, but postponed my visit for reasons described below.

Following meetings with government representatives, business and community leaders, U.S. diplomats, and others, I would like to share with you the following observations and recommendations. As you will note, some of these recommendations are quite time-sensitive.

(...)

2. Democracy assistance to Thailand:

The State Department Trafficking in Persons (TIP) report is due for release in mid-June. The US Embassy in Bangkok has reported that Thailand's status will be downgraded from Tier II to the Tier II Watch List. The Embassy disagrees with the merits of this assessment, and it also has concerns about the consequences of this placement.

Downgrading Thailand to the Tier II Watch List places the country at risk for sanctions on US assistance, primarily for democracy and human rights programs. Such a downgrade would occur at a time when this type of aid is desperately needed to bolster political reforms in Thailand and to promote political stability. Under current law a presidential waiver can be granted, but only after the sanctions have been announced.

I hope you will accept the advice and counsel of our embassy in Thailand, and reject in advance of the TIP report's release any recommendation to downgrade the Thai government's status. From what I am hearing regarding the timeliness issue, this would require immediate action by you and your staff.

(...)

US Talking to Burma about North Korea , The Irrawaddy, June 9, 2010

Webb isn't the man in charge, but he claims to know a couple of things, so he makes some recommendations what should be done and as a side effect we get some information about the current state.

Follow the link to get to the original article that contains the letter. It will be essential to read all for getting the context if your are interested. There are also more informations about Eric John, the current US ambassador in Bangkok.

No further comment - i will let it to the high level diplomats and the board own experts who got their Ph.D. with a thesis in US foreign policy in SEA to comment it. USA related topics have also the tendency that people with different humour misunderstand each other and some get emotional and some get agitated and other patriotic. sometimes fun to watch, not so funny to get involved.

Edited June 12, 2010 by mazeltov

[jackdawson]

jim webb's a good man

but he's wrong

it was the criminal class occupying ratchaprasong (and a lot of per diem issan housewives) not "marxists"

that's such a bad reading of what happened it's laughable .

ps having started, not won and not extricated itself from 2 asian "wars" in the past decade , who would listen to what the US says about foreign affairs anyway ?

Edited June 12, 2010 by jackdawson

[slapout]

For Marciel to make the statement "25 years working in SE Asia and he has never seen a political situation as complex as the one in Thailand", would lead me to have several questions concerning US foreign diplomats. Another example of 'your farang you do not understand' which in this case is probably so very true.

[chainarong]

Well, you've got hold of the purse strings ( money ), thats a start.

[mogoso]

The present administration in Washington backs leftists and union supported groups and thugs hence the downgrade as the Red Shirts didn't win their sit in (so to speak) The gov't that Thailand backed in 2001 isn't the same one in Washington and probably won't ever be close to that ever again, the hooks are too deeply implanted and entangled to stop their agenda.

Look at their support of the ex-Pres of Honduras who tried to remain in office despite the courts and Military and populace rejecting him. He was backed by the buffoon in Venezuela , Castro of Cuba and the Obamination. Freedom and rule of law no longer matter only that the elite leftist must rule.

[Spee]

jim webb's a good man

but he's wrong

Despite honorable military service and previous accomplishments, Webb has evolved into just another fumbling bumbling partisan hack, but I do agree with you that he's wrong.

The Reds' behavior was anything but Marxist, and that includes not only the peaceful legitimate protesters as well as the black shirt and other thugs. To state otherwise only indicates that the individual knows nothing of the definition. If Webb and other US senators want to see examples of Marxist behavior and ideology, all they have to do is look up and down the ranks of the current US administration.

[Dakhar]

Not so sure our American friends will appreciate the following quote!

"Kiat recalled Thailand's reaction to the September 11, 2001 attacks when "our friends were in trouble."

"Do we have concern that from now on we should advise our people not to come to the United States? Are we concerned that the United States government cannot handle the situation? Certainly not," he said."

"Advise our people not to come to the US....." I don't think the US would give a flying fig if they did....

[dumball]

I try not to get involved with politics too often , too much controversy for my life-style , this is not even OUR country and most likely never will be , but as has been noted before YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW and Thailand , I am sorry to say , has been planting low grade seeds for far too long to enable them to come into the real world any time soon .

[eggomaniac]

jim webb's a good man

but he's wrong

Despite honorable military service and previous accomplishments, Webb has evolved into just another fumbling bumbling partisan hack, but I do agree with you that he's wrong.

The Reds' behavior was anything but Marxist, and that includes not only the peaceful legitimate protesters as well as the black shirt and other thugs. To state otherwise only indicates that the individual knows nothing of the definition. If Webb and other US senators want to see examples of Marxist behavior and ideology, all they have to do is look up and down the ranks of the current US administration.

Not Marxist>? That is an uneducated statement. Many of the Red leaders were schooled in and active in Communism, in N V N for example. They all went to Pridi U [aka] Chula, which was founded by the Marxist loving 'father of democracy'.

The Khana Ratsadon was squabbling among themselves before they even came back from France and England in the 1930's. They brought this piece of Lenin loving bit to put with that piece of Mussolini loving part to create the most convoluted WESTERN influenced government imaginable. Their divided squabble, for the past 80 years, is more of a factor in causing the Kingdom's problems, than 'Class Struggle'.

------------------

Whether it is an American, the European Parliament, the Thais themselves, or me, or anybody, the Solution is simple. Put Thaksin and Sondhi in a jail cell together, where they BOTH belong. << is that mediation or arbitration???

-------

Webb and the European speeches someone Posted on another thread talk about mediating between the Government and the Reds!!! &lt;deleted&gt;! [after my hundreds of emails and dozens of posts, it's still hitting a brick wall]

How can I make an explanation idiot proof, for Vishnu's Sake?? There are Reds IN the govt, duh.

Pretend that the reds win the next election. If you can imagine who everyone would, then, be talking about mediating between, you can grasp the understanding. no peeking, Can you see who? ............................................

THEN all the talk would turn to mediating between the Government and the Yellows. HOW is that so hard to see.

Somebody, preferably the Thais, HAVE to mediate between the reds and yellows.

Here is how it COULD work.

In the hundreds of emails I have sent to Thais and Thai institutions, I have been suggesting The Joseph Solution. First there would be very specific Polling, done in very certain way. Any other way than my forula will fail.

From that, there would be a Canadian style Commision. [because the Queen of England is our official head of state, we call them Royal Commisions, which would be appropriate for Thailand as well]

The ONLY say this Royal Commision would be succesful if it was held in the location I have planed using my Member selection process. It would work, though, and Thailand would be a G30 nation within 5 to 10 years. I guarantee it.

Edited June 12, 2010 by eggomaniac

[eggomaniac]

There is somebody who deserves to see this happen in his lifetime, maybe more than the rest of us!---------------------

The European Parliament speeches on YouTube, brought up many insightful and accurate observations, well after all these our smart people.[Civil War, they mentioned. Not strangling the freedom of press, they mentioned. Not turning live rounds on your own people, they mentioned.]

They mentioned Thaksin, but only one speaker came close to mentioning Sondhi.

Everyone of them said it was Goverment versus Red conflict and it is NOT. If all of Polling, mediation, new constitutions, commissions, resolutions go forward on that FALSE platform Thailand is heading for military rule or all out Civil War.

If the Thai Government cannot see that there highest responsibilty is to mediate between the reds and yellows, then maybe they do need outside help.[This will mean some reds AND yellows will be banned from politics and/or jailed.]

Now WATCH this! I have Posted this scenario before. Instead of the above, which would automatically include fair elections and a built in corruption watch dog, the Thai Western built and influenced system would switch tracks into a gang land truce and divvying up of territory as Thailand has done in the Past. When the pigs are destroying the pig trough, they finally realise it is better to have a share of something, instead of having nothing left to share.

The ONLY way this would work, though, in this day and age is to go Burma N Korea style.

Any 'democratic' solution, where elections come off harmonious, withOUT filtering out conflict of interest and corruption will be seen for what it is, a gang land truce. The Joseph Solution filters out corruption by design.

Edited June 12, 2010 by eggomaniac

[Pib]

The present administration in Washington backs leftists and union supported groups and thugs hence the downgrade as the Red Shirts didn't win their sit in (so to speak) The gov't that Thailand backed in 2001 isn't the same one in Washington and probably won't ever be close to that ever again, the hooks are too deeply implanted and entangled to stop their agenda.

Look at their support of the ex-Pres of Honduras who tried to remain in office despite the courts and Military and populace rejecting him. He was backed by the buffoon in Venezuela , Castro of Cuba and the Obamination. Freedom and rule of law no longer matter only that the elite leftist must rule.

Mogoso, is your real name Rush Limbaugh?

[animatic]

jim webb's a good man

but he's wrong

it was the criminal class occupying ratchaprasong (and a lot of per diem issan housewives) not "marxists"

that's such a bad reading of what happened it's laughable .

ps having started, not won and not extricated itself from 2 asian "wars" in the past decade , who would listen to what the US says about foreign affairs anyway ?

You think Dr. Weng and his crew are not 'barely in the closet' marxists,

when they used text book Marxist theory to control and manipulate the Red masses.

Odd that.

Flush Limbaugh; the only solution.

Edited June 12, 2010 by animatic

[LomSak27]

Kiat recalled Thailand's reaction to the September 11, 2001 attacks when "our friends were in trouble."

Did "we have concern that from now on we should advise our people not to come to the United States? Are we concerned that the United States government cannot handle the situation? Certainly not," he said.

Mr Kiat unfortunatly fails to remember an event that occured in the week following 9/11. The Chinese goverment recomended putting evidence of who did it before the United Nations and let them make the decision. This idea was warmingly and vigoroursly seconded by the Thai goverment of the time.

I don't recall the US recomending Thailand put its southern problem before a UN Tribunal, or for that matter China's Xinjiang problems. No and both goverment would regard them as internal matters that they and they alone will deal with.

I''m sure Mr Kiat wants his side to have the US ear, but as time changes the US might be less and less interested as to what "this close ally" wants and desires. Such is life

[bubba]

jim webb's a good man

but he's wrong

Despite honorable military service and previous accomplishments, Webb has evolved into just another fumbling bumbling partisan hack, but I do agree with you that he's wrong.

The Reds' behavior was anything but Marxist, and that includes not only the peaceful legitimate protesters as well as the black shirt and other thugs. To state otherwise only indicates that the individual knows nothing of the definition. If Webb and other US senators want to see examples of Marxist behavior and ideology, all they have to do is look up and down the ranks of the current US administration.

"Anything but Marxist"? Here is the cover of Red Power Magazine, from April 2010. The cover reads: The Russian Revolution - The anti-royalists in the early of the 20th century - History will not forgive us if we do not seize the power at this moment.

[mazeltov]

"Anything but Marxist"? Here is the cover of Red Power Magazine, from April 2010. The cover reads: The Russian Revolution - The anti-royalists in the early of the 20th century - History will not forgive us if we do not seize the power at this moment.

There is still a difference between a Marxist and Leninist. And that magazine don't represent the entire red movement.

there are also some who argue (PAD et al.) the reds have ultra neo-liberalist leaders and that under Thaksin the peace and unity of the society was endangered by the vices and amorality of capitalism.

simple arguments never work.

[elkangorito]

When Thailand is ready to 'grow up', it will consult more countries than the USA.

When Thailand is ready to 'grow up', it will realise that Thai Culture plays a huge part in everyday life & has played a huge part in politics up to this day.

Thailand...for your own sake , 'grow up'. This may mean some changes...primarily changes to the indoctrinated Thai Culture.

Edited June 13, 2010 by elkangorito

[Tokay]

I try not to get involved with politics too often , too much controversy for my life-style , this is not even OUR country and most likely never will be , but as has been noted before YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW and Thailand , I am sorry to say , has been planting low grade seeds for far too long to enable them to come into the real world any time soon .

Well said.

[elkangorito]

I try not to get involved with politics too often , too much controversy for my life-style , this is not even OUR country and most likely never will be , but as has been noted before YOU REAP WHAT YOU SOW and Thailand , I am sorry to say , has been planting low grade seeds for far too long to enable them to come into the real world any time soon .

Consider yourself...INVOLVED!!!

[geriatrickid]

The present administration in Washington backs leftists and union supported groups and thugs hence the downgrade as the Red Shirts didn't win their sit in (so to speak) The gov't that Thailand backed in 2001 isn't the same one in Washington and probably won't ever be close to that ever again, the hooks are too deeply implanted and entangled to stop their agenda.

Look at their support of the ex-Pres of Honduras who tried to remain in office despite the courts and Military and populace rejecting him. He was backed by the buffoon in Venezuela , Castro of Cuba and the Obamination. Freedom and rule of law no longer matter only that the elite leftist must rule.

Thailand is as important to the USA as Botswana is. No one cares unless US lives are imperiled and even then, unless it's a flashy case, the event won't even rate much more than a story on page 9 of the local newspaper.

Please provide an example of which "leftists" the U.S. government "supports"? If you mean that the U.S. government is making an attempt to respect the results of fair elections and is trying to conduct itself in a civilized manner, then gosh, that must be heartbreaking for you. I am sorry to break the news to you but the activities of Col. Ollie North and the Reagan administration of doing trade with narco terrorists on the premise they were "anti-leftist" has been shown to have achieved the opposite of the desired outcome. The U.S. government is hardly a friend of Venezuala or Bolivia and has clashed with these countries politically. The U.S. government needs Venzuala's oil and unless you are prepared to impose gasoline rationing on the U.S. population, then the USA had better be nice to Chavez. One doesn't upset the 4th largest petroleum supplier to one's nation.

Do you take offense that the USA plays nice with Canada because Ann Coulter considers it to be a left wing country (even though it is conservative in the true sense of the word)? Well you better get on your hands and knees and thank the heavens for Canada since it is the USA's largest trading partner and energy supplier. If those lefties in Canada ever closed the border for a month or so, the US economy would collapse. What's up with your comment on Cuba? The blockade has achieved nothing and is now just pandering to the old Cuban refugee population and a bunch of wackos that fear what they do not know. Cubans under the age of 50 want a rapprochement and want to be given a chance to invest and develop relations with Cuba. Cuba represents billions of dollars of economic opportunity for the USA. Thailand represents zilch. No Thais are in the USA clamoring for increased investment.

The above comments add emphasis to this; The USA doesn't really care about Thailand. The days of using Siam as a base to attack Vietnam and Cambodia are long over. The new friend on the horizon for the USA is Vietnam. Look at the year to year investment growth. Ask a US Congressperson where Thailand is and you will probably get a blank look, but you can bet he or she will know where Vietnam is.

The Thai government needs to get over itself. Thailand is not a contributor to international progress. There is no scientific R&D, there is no advanced manufacturing infrastructure, there is no great untapped market that can be accessed and there is no oil. Today, if a country wants to be important in needs to have energy and resources for export. Why do you think China and India fall all over themselves to make nice with Burma? It's all about the resources. All Thailand can offer is a place for the USA to send its perverts for some R&R. That's it.

Edited June 13, 2010 by geriatrickid