Thai Red-Shirts Should Agree To Reconcile, Pick A Better Leader

[webfact]

EDITORIAL

Reds should agree to reconcile, pick a better leader

By The Nation

Group could win next election, but they need to ditch Thaksin

BANGKOK: -- At a meeting with Asian journalists on Friday, Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva vowed to "reach out" to ordinary red-shirt supporters. It would be part of his reconciliation roadmap, he said, suggesting that winning over moderate red shirts had become all the more important because their hardcore leaders would never accept any government initiative. Abhisit obviously realises that if only half of Thailand embraces the roadmap, everything will go back to square one.

The olive branch comes from a man who currently has the upper hand. But the real issue is not whether Abhisit will reach out or not. It is whether he does it wholeheartedly, because Thailand's situation cries out for such action. Whether the roadmap will hit a dead-end does not have anything to do with him - that will depend on his sceptical and resentful rivals. It's normal for a "winner" to offer a handshake. Whether the "loser" will take it is another matter.

Abhisit assumes that "moderate" red shirts do exist - and that some may be willing to contribute to a national reform blueprint the government hopes to complete by the end of the year. Over the past two days he has practically pleaded for them to give his reconciliation plan a chance. What his "personal letter" read out on TV on Thursday did not mention, though, was that Thailand does not have any other option at the moment.

The ball is in the red shirts' court. They can either bury their mistrust and join the reconciliation process in order to speed up an election, or they can look the other way and allow "the other side" to come up with a reform plan that they will later decry as one-sided. Or, worse, the red shirts can go back to aggressive anti-government tactics, which have been proven futile, and hope blindly that they will work this time.

For their own sake, the red shirts must join the roadmap, whether it is a noble process or just a game. The movement is now without a reliable leader and it must have realised that any hint of a repeat of the turbulence of the past two months will be opposed by the general public and pre-empted by the government. The red shirts will have to play along until there comes a time when their real power can talk for them at the ballot box.

That's the easy part. Joining the roadmap or "pretending" to go along would not require much. Even "winning" the next election is not the most difficult thing in the world. What would be harder, though, is ditching the figure that caused the red shirts to be in this predicament in the first place. Thaksin Shinawatra, whether he has been the red shirts' dark shadow or inspiration, will have to be ejected. It's high time red shirts show the movement really has gone far "beyond" the man.

Prime Minister Abhisit was right when he pointed out that the yellow shirts were not hel_l-bent on demolishing a rival political party. The campaigns against the Samak government, he noted, began after the ruling People Power Party vowed to launch constitutional changes to absolve Thaksin and bring him back from exile. That PPP government could still be here, although Samak has passed away, if it had just concentrated on real national issues.

During their volatile protest, the red shirts claimed that the real national issue was that the voice of the poor, their choice of a leader, was never accepted. That is not true. Only Thaksin has been rejected, as modern Thai history will show. Chatichai Choonhavan, arguably a rural choice because he was not much favoured by Bangkok, was overthrown by a coup. But who responded by staging an uprising against the military? It was the middle class in Bangkok.

Then there's Chavalit Yongchaiyudh, who was, again, not a Bangkok favourite, but everyone knows what brought about his downfall. It had absolutely nothing to do with the mysterious "elite" mentality.

Chuan Leekpai, who succeeded Chavalit as premier, was forced to leave office by a Democrat Party corruption scandal that now seems trivial, which gave rise to the Thaksin regime. Where were the "elite" to help Chuan if the Democrats' beloved son? There was no blocking of rural choices at all costs. Thai politics might not be the most decent of games, but take Thaksin away from the equation, and ask if there really is a conspiracy against poor people's choices.

Any red shirt-supported party should be able to still comfortably win an election. This, then, means the movement is far from fading away. But can the red shirts become a force to really form a government by the people and for the people? Surely, they can, but first they may have to admit that democracy is not just about the right to make a choice, but also about admitting any wrong choices have also been made.

-- The Nation 2010-06-13

[Pib]

Good article IMHO.

[ianf]

Good article IMHO.

Good article but preaching to the converted. Far too sophisticated to reach the everyday punter who revile Abhisit and worship the demagogue Thaksin.

[jayboy]

Good article IMHO.

Good article but preaching to the converted. Far too sophisticated to reach the everyday punter who revile Abhisit and worship the demagogue Thaksin.

It's not sophisticated at all, simply common sense.Of course the reds have a leadership problem.Thaksin is tainted and too divisive, and the alternatives are second rate or frightening.It's a problem and that's an open recognition from someone whose sympathies are mainly red.My instincts say keep hold of nurse for fear of finding something worse, but Abhisit has been a terrible disapointment too (given his personal qualities and honesty)

[eggomaniac]

It's NOT a situation of moderate reds, moderate radicals, radical reds, radical yellows, and so.

90 some % of Thais would agree to fair and free elections, stable 4 year Terms, great pay for Members and Cabinet Ministers, and a system that automatically filters out conflicts of interest and corruption.

If the they did the proper polling, with the proper questions, in the manner I have been preparing for a couple of months, they would learn that the vast majority of Thais are White Shirts!

In the OP it appears that the pigs, on both sides, are getting ready to fix the broken pig trough. Window dressing will not work in this day and age!. If a peaceful reconciliation is reached with the corrupt system still in place, they will be standing, smiling, shaking hands for the cameras, with their flies open and/or their pants off.

It is NOT a red/governmen thing; it IS a red/yellow fight for the feather beds! STOP thinking this can be resolved by getting back to ABnormal!!!

Just put Sondhi and Thaksin in same cell for about 5 years and the World will actually see Thailand can DO things on their own!

[maybe house arrest if the both agree to fully cooperate with The Joseph Plan.

[ballpoint]

It's NOT a situation of moderate reds, moderate radicals, radical reds, radical yellows, and so.

90 some % of Thais would agree to fair and free elections, stable 4 year Terms, great pay for Members and Cabinet Ministers, and a system that automatically filters out conflicts of interest and corruption.

If the they did the proper polling, with the proper questions, in the manner I have been preparing for a couple of months, they would learn that the vast majority of Thais are White Shirts!

In the OP it appears that the pigs, on both sides, are getting ready to fix the broken pig trough. Window dressing will not work in this day and age!. If a peaceful reconciliation is reached with the corrupt system still in place, they will be standing, smiling, shaking hands for the cameras, with their flies open and/or their pants off.

It is NOT a red/governmen thing; it IS a red/yellow fight for the feather beds! STOP thinking this can be resolved by getting back to ABnormal!!!

Just put Sondhi and Thaksin in same cell for about 5 years and the World will actually see Thailand can DO things on their own!

[maybe house arrest if the both agree to fully cooperate with The Joseph Plan.

Then why do so many Thais sell their votes to the same old corrupt politicians and their proxies time and time again? The evidence of every election since "democracy" was restored in 1988 is that the majority of Thais do not care about free and fair elections, or corrupt cabinet ministers, but rather with the short term gain of a paltry sum for their vote.

[jackdawson]

i don't get it . abhisit / the army won . (it took way 2 long to get it done) but the reds got crushed / sent packing . PPP is splintering (as it should in the face of such a collosal political miscalculation). reconcile for what ?

[rreddin]

i don't get it . abhisit / the army won . (it took way 2 long to get it done) but the reds got crushed / sent packing . PPP is splintering (as it should in the face of such a collosal political miscalculation). reconcile for what ?

Here you are quite wrong! The Govt. merely silenced the UDD for the moment, at least. They have not converted UDD supporters, nor has the UDD gone away - they are merely less visible. Abhisit knows this and he knows that all he "won" is a deeply divided country - one which the "Nation" recently described as being at war with itself. Abhist represents one side of that division. Calling for reconciliation on his terms will achieve nothing because his coalition government is part of the problem.

The fat lady is not on stage yet, let alone started singing. This is the lull before the next storm.

[Arkady]

If the red shirts really want to form a genuine and sustainable political movement, they do indeed need to move beyond Thaksin and many Thai and farang intellectual red shirts who are embarrassed about Thaksin's "tainted goods" image do jawbone incessantly about this. However, that would mean finding capable and charismatic leaders who can attract followers on their own merits without the phone-ins and raise substantial independent funding. Pheua Thai etc has had two shockingly awful Thaksin nominated PMs so far and at present the best they can do is offer terminally tainted figures like Chavalit and Chalerm as PM material, making it patently obvious that the Boss wouldn't accept a leader who might actually be capable, clean and respected. I believe that some factions of the red shirts could break free of Thaksin and form a meaningful new movement or party to represent rights of workers and farmers, if they were willing to start much smaller and form the movement from the bottom up over a period of 5-10 years. Unfortunately most of the intellectual red shirts who dislike what Thaksin really stands for, like the Marxist Giles Ungkaporn and the Maoist Dr Weng have given up the ghost on their own insipid, weakling movements in Thailand and will continue to see that the only hope for them is to ride on Thaksin's coat tails and then somehow turn on him and eliminate him and the other right wing capitalist cronies in the red shirt movement in a purge of counter revolutionaries, Stalin style. Given the gutter level of Thailand's politics and the purely monetary motivation of nearly all Thai politicians, it is hard to see the "beyond Thaksin movement" taking root while he is still alive and his money still flows into Thailand on a grand scale.

Looking at the other side, they are also short of leadership. If Abhisit fell to an assassin's bullet, they have no premier material to put up, short of taking the mothballs out of Chuan who was lacklustre in his own time and doesn't have the statesmanlike qualities for today's political crisis.

Edited June 13, 2010 by Arkady

[jackdawson]

They have not converted UDD supporters

who wants 'em ? these "supporters" r only as good as the 500 baht they got each day 4 shaking their clappers .

This is the lull before the next storm.

bring it on . next time it won't take so long to send the reds running back to the rice fields . in fact , they probably won't even make it south of korat .

they have no premier material to put up

wrong . finance minister korn .

Edited June 13, 2010 by jackdawson

[rixalex]

Abhisit knows this and he knows that all he "won" is a deeply divided country - one which the "Nation" recently described as being at war with itself. Abhist represents one side of that division. Calling for reconciliation on his terms will achieve nothing because his coalition government is part of the problem.

Funny how certain posters one week are mocking anyone who quotes from The Nation, and the next are citing them themselves.

That aside, the whole business of this country being deeply divided is vastly exaggerated by red followers who depend on there being division to stand any chance of not rapidly fading into obscurity, which is exactly the fate they now face.

I believe that what divides Thai people in terms of political beliefs is now greatly dwarfed by what unites them in terms of wishing an end to violence, destruction and mayhem - getting on with their lives in short. This is Thaksin's worst nightmare.

[eggomaniac]

Abhisit knows this and he knows that all he "won" is a deeply divided country - one which the "Nation" recently described as being at war with itself. Abhist represents one side of that division. Calling for reconciliation on his terms will achieve nothing because his coalition government is part of the problem.

Funny how certain posters one week are mocking anyone who quotes from The Nation, and the next are citing them themselves.

That aside, the whole business of this country being deeply divided is vastly exaggerated by red followers who depend on there being division to stand any chance of not rapidly fading into obscurity, which is exactly the fate they now face.

I believe that what divides Thai people in terms of political beliefs is now greatly dwarfed by what unites them in terms of wishing an end to violence, destruction and mayhem - getting on with their lives in short. This is Thaksin's worst nightmare.

R, There is HOPE for Thailand after all. You are 1/2 ways to correct. YES, it IS a myth the Thai people are divided, and YES that is purpotrated by the Red leaders, and YES that is purpotrated by the Yellow leaders. They are BOTH fighting over the feather beds and dupe the hapless Thais and the witless expats. [one side 'the commies are going to take over and destroy the monarchy' is their published manifesto, the other side 'they are going to keep you in rice fields and on motor cycle taxis forever'] Anybody not on Sondhi's or Thaksin's payroll knows this stuff. Only about 20% of Thais are red and 10% are yellow, but they are the ones with keys to the offices of corruption.

You are also 100% correct that 95% of Thais do NOT want violence, but that is only, again, 1/2 the picture. What about what 95% of Thais DO want?

[[stable goverment, fair elections, corruption free government, and something Else which can't be mentioned, even though it is Good and respectful?]]

I really do see hope in what you are saying. If we can convince Thais they are on the same page and that Thaksin and Sondhi are throwing them under the bus, maybe there could be a national 'burn your red and yellow T shirts Day!!!, and put on a White one.

I am so HOPING these POLLS that Abhisit has announced will corroborate these concepts AND educate to Thais that the 70% of Thais who are NOT red and who are NOT yellow, are the only Thais who have been right, all along. It's the corruption entrenched and corruption seeking red AND yellow leaders who are squabbling so madly over the pig trough that they about broke the pig trough, even. In the past, gang land truces have been called, but Sondhi and Thaksin are in a stalemate. Let's put them in jail, together and end their wicked lover's quarrel.

It is the Mute Majority I have been speaking FOR for nearly 2 years now. I WANT my daughter's Kingdom to be a G30 Nation.

I loathe and detest Thaksin and Sondhi, but they are both the victims of a bits and pieces, Marxist AND Mussolini inpsired system of Western style government. [pridi and plaek] Thailand could use a huge reveral of the 16 years of anti Thai and anti Chinese facist influences that Mussolini loving plaek drove into the Thai 'culture'!

With the help of some brilliant Thais, red, yellow and neither, my concepts have been much improved, but the basics have been the same for 2 years.

For example, YOU SHOULD SEE the 2 years of discussion and debate I have had with the publisher of the antiThaksin website and how his advice led me to the KPI and other places. A totally good and intelligent man, but steel trapped on the misinformed 'theory' that Thaksin is the only problem with thailand, when there is Pridi, Plaek, the CIA, to name only a few AND Sondhi that is the cause for steering the Kingdom toward imminent break up.

R. You're 1/2 on board, trying to convince reds they are idiots is only 1/2 of the Noble cause. If you have been thinking that is hard, what about us who have trying to convince BOTH the reds AND the yellows they are puppets/dupes.

We ALL know the man who suicide killed 70 people at a wedding in Afghanistan the other day did something, 'wrong', but not one of us could have convinced him otherwise; same/same with all you red and yellow fanatics who are destroying a Nation! YOU CANNOT LISTEN!

The Joseph Plan gets rid of the Thaksin's and Sondhi's for good and The Joseph Solution supplies a partly made in aborignal NA, partly made in Canada, partly made in modern Thailand, and partly made in historic Siam system of Government which WOULD be Stable, for sure!, which would be Peaceful, for sure, which would filter out political corruption, for sure and which WOULD produce a Golden Era of Prosperity for Thailand.

Edited June 13, 2010 by cdnvic
Removed reference to The Monarchy

[bendejo]

C'mon, there is no 'red movement,' those people were out on the street because someone was paying them, and the more he pays the more love he gets (sound familiar? ). The cash tap gets turned off and there goes the cause. They held out to the bitter end for big payoff. Period. There is no charter, no idealism, no vision -- sorry to disappoint those of you out there that choose to see it as a social reform movement. It was and is all about the rich guy on the screen who lacks the ability to speak truth. If there are any doubts about this roll back to pre-April 10 negotiations, when TS had his stooges present the conditions for dispersing: it was all about him.

[JLester]

If the red shirts really want to form a genuine and sustainable political movement, they do indeed need to move beyond Thaksin and many Thai and farang intellectual red shirts who are embarrassed about Thaksin's "tainted goods" image do jawbone incessantly about this. However, that would mean finding capable and charismatic leaders who can attract followers on their own merits without the phone-ins and raise substantial independent funding. Pheua Thai etc has had two shockingly awful Thaksin nominated PMs so far and at present the best they can do is offer terminally tainted figures like Chavalit and Chalerm as PM material, making it patently obvious that the Boss wouldn't accept a leader who might actually be capable, clean and respected. I believe that some factions of the red shirts could break free of Thaksin and form a meaningful new movement or party to represent rights of workers and farmers, if they were willing to start much smaller and form the movement from the bottom up over a period of 5-10 years. Unfortunately most of the intellectual red shirts who dislike what Thaksin really stands for, like the Marxist Giles Ungkaporn and the Maoist Dr Weng have given up the ghost on their own insipid, weakling movements in Thailand and will continue to see that the only hope for them is to ride on Thaksin's coat tails and then somehow turn on him and eliminate him and the other right wing capitalist cronies in the red shirt movement in a purge of counter revolutionaries, Stalin style.

The Reds also have an alternative to the Chalerm PTP or Giles/Weng Communists in the political party Sae Daeng formed, the Khattiyatham Party.

Following his death, his only daughter, and former PAD supporter, 29 year-old Khattiyaa Sawasdipol, will soon be taking over Party leadership.

I'm sure that since Sae Daeng founded it, it must have a wise and reasonable platform to resolve the myriad of issues facing Thailand.

For example, the Party's current leader, 2nd LT Surapat Chantima, has an arrest warrant on terrorism charges.

Edited June 13, 2010 by JLester

[rixalex]

YES, it IS a myth the Thai people are divided, and YES that is purpotrated by the Red leaders, and YES that is purpotrated by the Yellow leaders. They are BOTH fighting over the feather beds and dupe the hapless Thais and the witless expats. [one side 'the commies are going to take over and destroy the monarchy' is their published manifesto, the other side 'they are going to keep you in rice fields and on motor cycle taxis forever'] Anybody not on Sondhi's or Thaksin's payroll knows this stuff. Only about 20% of Thais are red and 10% are yellow, but they are the ones with keys to the offices of corruption.

I don't agree with your assertion that the yellows are the ones right now trying to promote disunity and divisiveness. The yellows only rise to the surface in reaction to what Thaksin / the reds are doing. If Thaksin / the reds fade away, as i believe they already are, so too will the yellows, because the only fight they are capable of is one against Thaksin. Thaksin goes away and so does their purpose.

[mazeltov]

Prime Minister Abhisit was right when he pointed out that the yellow shirts were not hel_l-bent on demolishing a rival political party. The campaigns against the Samak government, he noted, began after the ruling People Power Party vowed to launch constitutional changes to absolve Thaksin and bring him back from exile. That PPP government could still be here, although Samak has passed away, if it had just concentrated on real national issues.

What?

PPP could be still in power when they would had not provoke the yellow shirts? Or focussed their work on 'real national issues'? Is the last sentence also something Abhisit had 'noted'? Isn't that implying they where removed for political reasons?

What are the 'real national issues'? - The UNESCO,Preh Vihar, Cambodia issue? The Singapore Temasak deal? Allowing more foreign investment? Free Trade Agreements? This ultra right wing extremism and nationalistic frenzy does more damage to Thailand than any good and definitely don't bring the democratic process anyhow forward.

And like it or not, if the PPP government were going to launch constitutional changes, that would had been done with measures and actions that were legal, constitutional and a parliamentary process? done with the power the constitution itself and the electorate gave them? Unlike the illegal and unconstitutional way the putschists removed the 1997 constitution for the 2007 constitution. The PPP government would have done it according to the rules, according to the existing laws without violating them.

And also totally unlike the Abhisit government. What is that constitution, that the PPP government was not allowed to change, worth at all if the current government can just suspend it for convenience, replacing it with ISA and SoE laws, actually violating the constitution and denying their people basic constitutional rights.

All done for the sake of 'real national issues'? If you are not 100% for Abhisit you are against Thailand?

Now everybodies national duty is to LOVE SHOPPING, buy more longan garlic everything - support Thailand. CHAI YO.

[rabo]

Prime Minister Abhisit was right when he pointed out that the yellow shirts were not hel_l-bent on demolishing a rival political party. The campaigns against the Samak government, he noted, began after the ruling People Power Party vowed to launch constitutional changes to absolve Thaksin and bring him back from exile. That PPP government could still be here, although Samak has passed away, if it had just concentrated on real national issues.

And like it or not, if the PPP government were going to launch constitutional changes, that would had been done with measures and actions that were legal, constitutional and a parliamentary process? done with the power the constitution itself and the electorate gave them? Unlike the illegal and unconstitutional way the putschists removed the 1997 constitution for the 2007 constitution. The PPP government would have done it according to the rules, according to the existing laws without violating them.

The courts didn't like it and the PPP government was disbanded because of voter fraud. Thus they did not have the angelic love of legal, constitutional, and a parliamentary process to which you allude, nor a mandate to change anything.

[animatic]

The Red grass roots didn't PICK their leaders, their leaders came looking for them and organized them

and fed them a interlocking set of party lines. There is a large scale political machine in control,

and unless a national anti-corruptionn force with real balls can start sidelining for the long term

that machines levers of power, the red masses will just be pawns.

The laws that broke up TRT and PPP are a start in that direction, and that is why PTP and Thaksins

bedfellows are so dead set against it, and why they tried this street action to steal power.

The laws actually ARE starting to work, and it HURTS these vested interests.

The question is what does the real Red Grass Roots actual want? Not what they are told they want.

And if not manipulated by their over lords, how might they expect to get what they seek?

A calm and truely for the people proto leader would be cut off at the knees by the moneied interests.

But if charismatic might be offered the choice; play along or be run off, or if coming as a force

with opposition backing, shuffled off the scene with no lightness of hand and full prejudice applied.

Either your on the power team or your a target. Note how every single non-Red or local puyai team

has to have combat pay to even think about competeing directly in person.

In the current scheme of things in that area, ' The People' don't have a shot in hel_l of chosing their leaders.

Sheeple waiting for fresh grass while being fleeced, and not even knowing by whom the shears are held.

Edited June 13, 2010 by animatic

[bendejo]

I don't agree with your assertion that the yellows are the ones right now trying to promote disunity and divisiveness. The yellows only rise to the surface in reaction to what Thaksin / the reds are doing. If Thaksin / the reds fade away, as i believe they already are, so too will the yellows, because the only fight they are capable of is one against Thaksin. Thaksin goes away and so does their purpose.

Yes. Proof of this is that there was no mention of yellows (except to hear the red yo-yos say 'we not bad like yellow shirt') until the circus moved to Ratchaprasang.

However I believe there is something else factoring in that does not involve TS but I think is becoming part of this divide. It involves things that are not permitted to be spoken of.

Is it true that small jets run a higher risk of being struck by lightning?

[Pawpcorn]

Is it true that small jets run a higher risk of being struck by lightning?

One can only hope...!!!

[JLester]

Pheua Thai etc has had two shockingly awful Thaksin nominated PMs so far and at present the best they can do is offer terminally tainted figures like Chavalit and Chalerm as PM material

The next Prime Minister of Thailand:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iO4o5Vimp8Ya

(made by the same great videographer, Purakhanda, that created all the other Thai political figures' raps)

Edited June 14, 2010 by JLester