Do I Need A Work Permit To Sing

[ladykata]

Hi, i've been advised to try the forum as the information is nearly allway precise and correct

i've just relocated and settled on phuket in Kata, i've worked in other asian countries and hotels and ships as a entertainer/singer with very little objection and really no red tape. but i've been astonished at the red tape i've come up against just to simple sing/ entertain in Thailand.

Straight away i've been told i need a work permit but before i can obtain one i need a 2 million baht company (is that 40 thousand pound company with the current exchange rate)and then employ and pay for several thai nationals, is that right????.

Is there a loop hole in the system to bypass this thai procedure, or am i stuck with the reality of having to go through this procedure

The only confusing thing is if a band or artist is touring via Thailand surely they don't have to go through all this red tap hassles as i am having to do

Someone told me it's as easy as just going to the local employment office, being honest, explain where i'm singing and all is OK, as long as i just sang one night in anyone place in any one week, the Thai authoriies said"definatly no"

So if anyone can finally give the definitive and correct procedure i'd be most greatfull

Lady kata

[LivinginKata]

I expect you will need to obtain a Work Permit. You will get more answers in the Visa & WP section. I will move this topic there. Best of luck.

[PoorSucker]

Artist on tour can get a 15 day temporary work permit.

[ladykata]

Thank you for your help

[stevenl]

Yes, you need a workpermit.

In stead of setting up your own company and beingemployed by that company, you could also try to get a workpermit via the people hiring you for the entertainment.

But a workpermit takes time and can be quite costly.

[WarpSpeed]

Yes, you need a workpermit.

In stead of setting up your own company and beingemployed by that company, you could also try to get a workpermit via the people hiring you for the entertainment.

But a workpermit takes time and can be quite costly.

Yes, not so costly but I just read the other day that while your application is being processed you can work for up to 3 months so by making the application you could be working and most gigs would not be that long in one place..

[ladykata]

Yes, you need a workpermit.

In stead of setting up your own company and beingemployed by that company, you could also try to get a workpermit via the people hiring you for the entertainment.

But a workpermit takes time and can be quite costly.

Thanks again for that advice, had that option offered but limited to working for that company alone, they work you so hard when they supply the permit i'm talking 4-5 hours 6 nights a week, the philopino's get that deal and they are burnt out so quick, quality not quantity, but again thanks

[ladykata]

Yes, not so costly but I just read the other day that while your application is being processed you can work for up to 3 months so by making the application you could be working and most gigs would not be that long in one place..

Thanks for your feedback, i've been told as i've really tried to get to the bottom of the situation that a 2 million baht company via company sgovernment building, the company costs 8,000 baht but cos i'm not via a lawyer can take 1 week, but can save 10's thousands of baht as same with the work permit, lawyers charge 12,000 baht, DIY system is 800 baht , maybe i've hit on the formula to get cheap work permits, if only it was that simple, but thanks again!!!!

[LivinginKata]

Yes, not so costly but I just read the other day that while your application is being processed you can work for up to 3 months so by making the application you could be working and most gigs would not be that long in one place..

Really, I have always been under the impression that you cannot work at all until the WP is actually issued.

[LivinginKata]

Thanks for your feedback, i've been told as i've really tried to get to the bottom of the situation that a 2 million baht company via company sgovernment building, the company costs 8,000 baht but cos i'm not via a lawyer can take 1 week, but can save 10's thousands of baht as same with the work permit, lawyers charge 12,000 baht, DIY system is 800 baht , maybe i've hit on the formula to get cheap work permits, if only it was that simple, but thanks again!!!!

Yes, the manager of the Phuket company registration office can help you out, although he might expect a small fee on top of the actual registration costs. Even once you have your company set up there are even more hurdles to overcome before you can qualify for a WP, like you need 4 Thai employees ?? or so I have been told.

[ladykata]

Thanks for your feedback, i've been told as i've really tried to get to the bottom of the situation that a 2 million baht company via company sgovernment building, the company costs 8,000 baht but cos i'm not via a lawyer can take 1 week, but can save 10's thousands of baht as same with the work permit, lawyers charge 12,000 baht, DIY system is 800 baht , maybe i've hit on the formula to get cheap work permits, if only it was that simple, but thanks again!!!!

Yes, the manager of the Phuket company registration office can help you out, although he might expect a small fee on top of the actual registration costs. Even once you have your company set up there are even more hurdles to overcome before you can qualify for a WP, like you need 4 Thai employees ?? or so I have been told.

Great advice and help, i didn't know that point, is there any advantage opening a company under a Thai national/ person, a thai musician i've joined with suggested this as a soluation, he seemed to know that this is a better situation then me as a english national opening a thai company, would that eliminate the 4 Thai national employees and would it be better for tax, great feedback please keep it up!!!

[lopburi3]

You can not open a company as English AFAIK. It would have to be majority Thai ownership. The four Thai is in order for the company to support a work permit for a foreign worker rather than anything to do with ownership.

[ladykata]

Yes, not so costly but I just read the other day that while your application is being processed you can work for up to 3 months so by making the application you could be working and most gigs would not be that long in one place..

Really, I have always been under the impression that you cannot work at all until the WP is actually issued.

I have to agree with livinginkata, the work permit must be in place from what i've been told, maybe theres a cover note/ permit they issue while the original permit is being processed, either way it's still information i didn't know and can ask about, so thank you

[ladykata]

You can not open a company as English AFAIK. It would have to be majority Thai ownership. The four Thai is in order for the company to support a work permit for a foreign worker rather than anything to do with ownership.

Again great advice, i thought it had gone from originally being 7 thai share holders to the new revised 3 share holders, i'm really asking the best way and most inexpensive way to form and run a thai company, if it's needed at all, but from the feed back it 's a must.

[LivinginKata]

You can not open a company as English AFAIK. It would have to be majority Thai ownership. The four Thai is in order for the company to support a work permit for a foreign worker rather than anything to do with ownership.

She can have a 49% shareholding in a Thai registered company, with the other 51% being held by at least 6 Thai nationals. She needs to realise that a Thai company must have at least 7 shareholders. Although she can be the sole signatory on behalf of the company. I'm sure she will be advised of all this at the company registration office. Then she needs to cross over the road to the Labour Department and find out all the many challenges to obtain a WP.

[LivinginKata]

Again great advice, i thought it had gone from originally being 7 thai share holders to the new revised 3 share holders, i'm really asking the best way and most inexpensive way to form and run a thai company, if it's needed at all, but from the feed back it 's a must.

You are mixing up shareholders and employees. Must be at least 7 shareholders of company shares, and must be 4 paid employees (Thai Nationals) of the company to qualify for one WP.

[NHJ]

Again great advice, i thought it had gone from originally being 7 thai share holders to the new revised 3 share holders, i'm really asking the best way and most inexpensive way to form and run a thai company, if it's needed at all, but from the feed back it 's a must.

You are mixing up shareholders and employees. Must be at least 7 shareholders of company shares, and must be 4 paid employees of the company to qualify for one WP.

outdated informations, company requires only three share holders since 2009, two can be foreigners at 49% and the other one, a thai nationnal with 51%.

[ladykata]

You can not open a company as English AFAIK. It would have to be majority Thai ownership. The four Thai is in order for the company to support a work permit for a foreign worker rather than anything to do with ownership.

She can have a 49% shareholding in a Thai registered company, with the other 51% being held by at least 6 Thai nationals. She needs to realise that a Thai company must have at least 7 shareholders. Although she can be the sole signatory on behalf of the company. I'm sure she will be advised of all this at the company registration office. Then she needs to cross over the road to the Labour Department and find out all the many challenges to obtain a WP.

Thanks livinginkata, definatly the same thoughts i've been given and getting before the forum, form the company,get the "B" visa using the new company documentation, and as you say to the labour office to apply for the permit, but as i'm trying to get across is the most inexpensive and efficient way to run a thai company and to do the whole process, but definatly learning advice i didn't know, so thank you

[LivinginKata]

outdated informations, company requires only three share holders since 2009, two can be foreigners at 49% and the other one, a thai nationnal with 51%.

That's very interesting. I did not know that the rules had changed. Time to weed out 4 shareholders from our company.

[LivinginKata]

Thanks livinginkata, definatly the same thoughts i've been given and getting before the forum, form the company,get the "B" visa using the new company documentation, and as you say to the labour office to apply for the permit, but as i'm trying to get across is the most inexpensive and efficient way to run a thai company and to do the whole process, but definatly learning advice i didn't know, so thank you

Avoid expensive lawyers and accountants. Try to do as much as possible yourself. Although you will need a certified accountant for every end of year company audit. Try to find a self employed book keeper (who works from home) to help you with the paperwork and government officialdom. That way you can really keep your costs down.

[ladykata]

Again great advice, i thought it had gone from originally being 7 thai share holders to the new revised 3 share holders, i'm really asking the best way and most inexpensive way to form and run a thai company, if it's needed at all, but from the feed back it 's a must.

You are mixing up shareholders and employees. Must be at least 7 shareholders of company shares, and must be 4 paid employees of the company to qualify for one WP.

outdated informations, company requires only three share holders since 2009, two can be foreigners at 49% and the other one, a thai nationnal with 51%.

Thanks, i'm sitting reading the updated companies booklet and i can confirm since 2008 it's 3 thai shareholders, this is what i'm experiencing even talking to Thai at government buildings', no one quite knows the procedures fully and that makes a lawyer charging crazy commision prices the only option for most farang

[ladykata]

Thanks livinginkata, definatly the same thoughts i've been given and getting before the forum, form the company,get the "B" visa using the new company documentation, and as you say to the labour office to apply for the permit, but as i'm trying to get across is the most inexpensive and efficient way to run a thai company and to do the whole process, but definatly learning advice i didn't know, so thank you

Avoid expensive lawyers and accountants. Try to do as much as possible yourself. Although you will need a certified accountant for every end of year company audit. Try to find a self employed book keeper (who works from home) to help you with the paperwork and government officialdom. That way you can really keep your costs down.

Thanks,again exactly the advice i've been given, even the accounting info is what ive been told,do as much as i can, it might take a week or two longer but you can save heaps of baht

[ladykata]

outdated informations, company requires only three share holders since 2009, two can be foreigners at 49% and the other one, a thai nationnal with 51%.

That's very interesting. I did not know that the rules had changed. Time to weed out 4 shareholders from our company.

Yes, i'm afraid it correct the new company formation is 3 Thai nationals as shareholders, i really don't know the advantages or disadvantages between 3 and 7, i guess 3 is cheaper but i would have thought more risky, as 3 thai's rather then 7 can have there say over the company, same as any shareholding company in the world, would i be correct.

[GmB]

outdated informations, company requires only three share holders since 2009, two can be foreigners at 49% and the other one, a thai nationnal with 51%.

That's very interesting. I did not know that the rules had changed. Time to weed out 4 shareholders from our company.

Yes that's true the rules changed and actually you do not need 4 thai paid employees but only 1.

The 4 paid employees are needed in order to obtain the yearly extension of your visa but that's another story as you will need also to meet other requirements (minimum salary, 2 years of audited balansheets etc.)

To the OP.... keep in mind that running a company it's quite expensive. You will need to pay an accountant, taxes on your salary and many other small things,

You could also open a Limited Partnership instead of a Limited Company and this will save you a little on the initial costs but i don't know which are the pros and cons on the long term.

[LivinginKata]

Yes, i'm afraid it correct the new company formation is 3 Thai nationals as shareholders, i really don't know the advantages or disadvantages between 3 and 7, i guess 3 is cheaper but i would have thought more risky, as 3 thai's rather then 7 can have there say over the company, same as any shareholding company in the world, would i be correct.

I doubt whether it's 'cheaper' to have only 3 shareholders, can't see any advantage in the economics. If the new rules state only 3 shareholders then I assume that could one foreigner (holding a max of 49% shares) and 2 Thai nationals holding the other 51%. There would be a greater risk for the 2 Thais to get together and take executive control of the company i.e. take away the signatory power from the other shareholder. When there are 6 other shareholders then is might be harder for them all to get together their 51% block of votes to outvote the 49% foreign shareholder.

[ladykata]

outdated informations, company requires only three share holders since 2009, two can be foreigners at 49% and the other one, a thai nationnal with 51%.

That's very interesting. I did not know that the rules had changed. Time to weed out 4 shareholders from our company.

Yes that's true the rules changed and actually you do not need 4 thai paid employees but only 1.

The 4 paid employees are needed in order to obtain the yearly extension of your visa but that's another story as you will need also to meet other requirements (minimum salary, 2 years of audited balansheets etc.)

To the OP.... keep in mind that running a company it's quite expensive. You will need to pay an accountant, taxes on your salary and many other small things,

You could also open a Limited Partnership instead of a Limited Company and this will save you a little on the initial costs but i don't know which are the pros and cons on the long term.

again advice i didn't know, i've learnt more in the last hour on the forum then asking the whole of Thai local government, please keep it up, i know just investigating what has been brought up today will open more avenues for cost cutting to streamline a thai company

[stevenl]

On phuket the company setup will cost around 25.000-30.000 baht.

[ladykata]

Yes, i'm afraid it correct the new company formation is 3 Thai nationals as shareholders, i really don't know the advantages or disadvantages between 3 and 7, i guess 3 is cheaper but i would have thought more risky, as 3 thai's rather then 7 can have there say over the company, same as any shareholding company in the world, would i be correct.

I doubt whether it's 'cheaper' to have only 3 shareholders, can't see any advantage in the economics. If the new rules state only 3 shareholders then I assume that could one foreigner (holding a max of 49% shares) and 2 Thai nationals holding the other 51%. There would be a greater risk for the 2 Thais to get together and take executive control of the company i.e. take away the signatory power from the other shareholder. When there are 6 other shareholders then is might be harder for them all to get together their 51% block of votes to outvote the 49% foreign shareholder.

I have to agree, your assessment makes perfect sense, thanks for all your advice so far, although great advice from all the forum people, the water is still cloudy, i think the big question is the Thai or farang forming the company, i would have thought for sure a Thai national forming the company and director must have some perks and cost savings over the farang being director.

1. Do i need a Thai compny to sing??? yes!!

2. is it better in a Thai or Farang nationals name???? not sure yet

3. whats the real cost to form the Thai company???? i think cheapest 8000 baht

4. Is there a entertainers special excemption visa???, a mith i think, that was another thing that cropped up in conversation

[ladykata]

On phuket the company setup will cost around 25.000-30.000 baht.

Hi, yes thats what i thought and even as high as 80,000 baht, but the reality is that if you use no lawyers and go directly to the thai government yourself the actual cost for a 2 million baht company is 8,000 baht, i know hard to believe, the rest is the commission for the lawyers, thats from the thai government official i spoke to only last week at company house in phuket town, so even the 25,000 low figure of yours the lawyer still makes 17,000 baht profit, OK but thats a 70% margin of profit, i'm afraid i'd rather do the running around myself

[NHJ]

On phuket the company setup will cost around 25.000-30.000 baht.

Hi, yes thats what i thought and even as high as 80,000 baht, but the reality is that if you use no lawyers and go directly to the thai government yourself the actual cost for a 2 million baht company is 8,000 baht, i know hard to believe, the rest is the commission for the lawyers, thats from the thai government official i spoke to only last week at company house in phuket town, so even the 25,000 low figure of yours the lawyer still makes 17,000 baht profit, OK but thats a 70% margin of profit, i'm afraid i'd rather do the running around myself

the costs you mention are under the governement fees and can't be correct :

Fee per 1 Million Baht of capitalization

5, 600

Fee for certification of document

900

Fee for duty stamp

420

total 12520

don't forget you'll also need to advertise the formation of your company twice in newspaper aswell as register the company to the vat office.

Edited June 13, 2010 by NHJ