Cigarette Police On Sukhumvit Road

[bkkjames]

Tod, do you have a bullet point version of that mate? 

[mahtin]

What's the stance on dottle?

[ReeBkk]

Regarding bins... there are usually 2 ash tray bins outside the skywalk entrance to MBK. One day I noticed that they were missing and then saw two policemen hiding around the corner waiting for a tourist smoker to drop their butt on the floor. They deliberately removed the bins so that they could fine more people...

The bins have been removed from just about everywhere in Bangkok after all the hassle with bombs a few years back. It's an absolute nightmare to try and find any bins in this city.....always have to resort to asking the street vendors...perhaps if they are all getting in on the scam, then I might not be able to do that in future either.

[Lammbock]

About 8 years ago (i remember as it was yesterday) i dropped a cigarette in front left side of the Gas Station on Nana near the Bully Pub after searching a bin in front of a police man. He saw me that i was unable to find a bin. So i gave a shit about it but didn't saw the Police man at all. He was kind of hiding i guess.

How ever he approached me and showed me a paper withe the penalty fine of 2k on it. That time i didn't have the cash in my wallet cause i was just done with my shopping at MBK and on my way home.

I told him that i will come back and give him the money. (Yeaaaa right)

Ofcourse i gave a shit and never returned back to him.

So Looong...

Edited June 24, 2010 by Lammbock

[Tod Daniels]

Tod, do you have a bullet point version of that mate? 

Sadly no ‘bkkjames’. . My overly verbose style of posting is just too hard wired into my psyche.

As is evidenced by a quick perusal of my posting penchants, I rarely make short posts, do bullet points or write a “Reader’s Digest” version.

I guess you could wait for the movie to come out and watch it.

Then again there is the “ignore user’ feature if my bloviation becomes too tedious for you to read.

Sorry man, I’ll just hafta try harder.

[bkkjames]

I dont want to ignore you posts Tod, but I have a short attention span mate. Anything over 5 paragraphs and 500 words I start looking for when the movie will come out. 

Call it laziness or just poor schooling, either way I know it's my problem and not yours. I just don't want you to put in all that effort and have it go unappreciated.

[powderpuff]

So, it's not a scam and it's not new.

Littering is an antisocial menace, and wherever I am these days my fag ends go into a bin, or at least down a drain!

ditto. Smoking is an antisocial menace.

Quit smoking. End of problem.

Edited June 24, 2010 by powderpuff

[bkkjames]

So, it's not a scam and it's not new.

Littering is an antisocial menace, and wherever I am these days my fag ends go into a bin, or at least down a drain!

ditto. Smoking is an antisocial menace.

Quit smoking. End of problem.

Sorry I don't understand, you are saying it is a menace to being antisocial? Does that mean smoking makes you social? What about drinking, I find that I get social when I drink but anti social when I drink to much. 

[daboyz1]

This happened to me back in 2004 when I had only been in Thailand for about a month. I was outside MBK near the BTS station smoking. Tossed the cigarette down and two of our brown shirt friends grabbed me. Took me to the police desk at the BTS where another farang was sitting there for the same thing. I freaked and called the girl I was "hanging" out with at the time. Before she got there they showed me some pictures (looked kinda like a menu) with people throwing away cigarette butts. So the girl came down. They were saying it's a 2000 THB fine, but this time they will fine me 500 THB. I paid the 500. The asked the girl if I needed a receipt for my company expense report. I told her no because my company would never pay that. The cop smiled and put the 500 in his front shirt pocket and we were on our way.

That was a very good lesson to me about how things work in LOS, and it only cost me 500 THB. My first, but not last experience with "tea money"

[way2muchcoffee]

On my first visit to Thailand, over 10 years ago, I dropped my cigarette end on the ground and was approached by a Thai man. He told me that he was an off duty policeman and that littering was an offence, with an on the spot fine of 1000baht. He suggested I pick it up and put it in a bin, which I did.

So, it's not a scam and it's not new.

Disappointing if the police were ignoring Thais doing the same; though as they were at work maybe they swept up after themselves later? (Don't laugh!)

Littering is an antisocial menace, and wherever I am these days my fag ends go into a bin, or at least down a drain!

And don't get me started on those sticky spots of chewing gum that cover the pavements everywhere in the UK!

If you do put your cigarette down a drain and one of the police near Benchasiri Park sees it, you will be charged for littering the same as if you threw it on the sidewalk. This is a major problem considering that you are not allowed to smoke indoors by law. So you must smoke outside, and yet there are no bins anywhere throughout the city.

These merchant/police 'scams' are common. There is a zebra crossing in front of the Jungceylon in Patong. If you park a motorcycle in such a way that even the tip of the handlebar hangs over the crossing stripe the local shop will padlock your motorcycle right there for your return. A tuk tuk will be waiting nearby to take you over to the Kathu station where you will pay your 500 bt to the police plus 200-300 to the tuk tuk guy. The duty officer will make a call to the shop owner, and in the 1 minute it takes to get from police station back to your bike, the padlock and chain will have been removed.

Oh well. We all know it is a land of scams and corruption. We choose to be here. The longer you are here, the more aware you are of the various scams. You simply learn to change your behavior to avoid the scams. It's the same with traffic infractions. They can mostly be avoided once you know how.

Edited June 24, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[gotlost]

This happened to me back in 2004 when I had only been in Thailand for about a month. I was outside MBK near the BTS station smoking. Tossed the cigarette down and two of our brown shirt friends grabbed me. Took me to the police desk at the BTS where another farang was sitting there for the same thing. I freaked and called the girl I was "hanging" out with at the time. Before she got there they showed me some pictures (looked kinda like a menu) with people throwing away cigarette butts. So the girl came down. They were saying it's a 2000 THB fine, but this time they will fine me 500 THB. I paid the 500. The asked the girl if I needed a receipt for my company expense report. I told her no because my company would never pay that. The cop smiled and put the 500 in his front shirt pocket and we were on our way.

That was a very good lesson to me about how things work in LOS, and it only cost me 500 THB. My first, but not last experience with "tea money"

This was going on in 1996 out in front of NEP. Fine 1000 baht.

[ESB7]

Signs stating the law are posted in prominent places. If you break that law that has existed for many years already, expect to get fined 2,000. Saying that there are fag ends in the road and other people dropped them is not a defence against commiting the crime yourselfe. Put the cigarette out and keep it until you can dispose of it properly, either that or dont smoke in the street.

[bkkjames]

Signs stating the law are posted in prominent places. If you break that law that has existed for many years already, expect to get fined 2,000. Saying that there are fag ends in the road and other people dropped them is not a defence against commiting the crime yourselfe. Put the cigarette out and keep it until you can dispose of it properly, either that or dont smoke in the street.

I agree 100%, littering is terrible. Now point me to the sign that says dropping your bbq chicken skewer is subject to a fine of 2000 Baht. 

[asiawatcher]

Smokers are not the cleanest people on the planet and they make no consideration about dropping their butts. So as a now, non smoker, I say som num na. But by all means dial 191 and complain. Get a camera and film the experience and the problem also goes away - as I have seen! But ... no butts!

[haveaniceday]

I dont smoke and never had a problem like that, but yes, it's been going on for years at MBK, they move the little plastic bag bins, and then get people for smoking, or if they kill the smoke they get them for littering. when gone, they put the bins back, TIT, I spose they are telling people to go to Vietnam for a holiday.

Regarding bins... there are usually 2 ash tray bins outside the skywalk entrance to MBK. One day I noticed that they were missing and then saw two policemen hiding around the corner waiting for a tourist smoker to drop their butt on the floor. They deliberately removed the bins so that they could fine more people...

[tingtongfarang]

Surprised anyone pays them...just keep walking!

[Livinginexile]

Signs stating the law are posted in prominent places. If you break that law that has existed for many years already, expect to get fined 2,000. Saying that there are fag ends in the road and other people dropped them is not a defence against commiting the crime yourselfe. Put the cigarette out and keep it until you can dispose of it properly, either that or dont smoke in the street.

The 2 points I was trying to make in the O/T was;

1) The ciggie cops have spotters on the street to catch farang tourists and,

2) Whilst the tourists were being fleezed the Thai stall holders were everywhere smoking and discarding their butts in plain view of the officers!

Nothing to do with the rights or wrongs of littering, I was highlighting the blatent corruption and extortion on Sukhumvit Road.

[Livinginexile]

The mindless nonsense some posters spew out is just over the top sometimes. How did a thread about what you call the cigarette police turn into a pissing match about politics and the plethora of shirt colors the differing factions wear? Sheesh, get a frickin grip will you?

The guys who you refer to as 'cigarette police', are employees of BMA (Bangkok Metropolitan Authority, the people who run Bangkok) and are city code inspectors/enforcers, for cleanliness. They are immediately differentiated from police by the fact they don't carry firearms. In thai they're called เทศกิจ (for those who live here yet can't read thai, the karaoke engrish is like this; 'thet-sa-gid').

They routinely apprehend the all too many tourists who litter whilst making their way down the Sukhumvit. FWIW their little headquarters is just in front of Sukhumvit Plaza (Little Korea) near Soi 12 next to the Tourism Authority of Thailand's info booth. They're the exact same group of guys working there since I've lived in this area (nearly 5 years now). The area they enforce is from just in front of Times Square down to Soi 8, and then another groups area starts.

They have a laminated sheet which outlines in engrish the various fines for discarding garbage, cigarette butts, (even spitting and/or blowing your nose) on the ground. The fine for dropping something on the sidewalk is posted at 2000baht, and if you slyly decide to drop waste into the sewer drains that carries a HIGHER penalty (up to 5000 baht).

As an aside, there are garbage receptacles at the mouth of Soi 12 in front of the 7/11, in the old Leader Price shopping area, at Times Square and just inside Little Korea Town too. There's also one right on the top steps of Bangkok Bank just after Chuwit park, so really I don't see any reason to litter. There are signs stuck on poles in several places between Soi 12 and Chuwit Park in ENGLISH and THAI which state it is illegal to litter and you can face a fine of 2000 baht or more. (If you dont believe the veracity of my statements Ill go out and snap some mobile pix this afternoon)

I've also seen them stop moto-taxi guys who are using the sidewalk instead of the road and fine them too when the mood strikes them. I think the guy they work with is the key cutter who sits just behind the bus stop before Bangkok Bank, as he's got one of their walkie-talkies sitting on his table.

In all honesty, they're nice guys who just happen to have the bull-shit job of apprehending foreigners who litter. I've shared a drink with them many times after their shift was over and they were waiting for traffic to die down before heading home. I've also sat next to their booth for a couple hours just shooting the shit with them and watched them apprehend and fine more people than I care to count. From my observations they write receipts for the people they fine, and if you just talk to them politely the fine can and often does go down precipitously, sometimes to a couple hundred baht or even a 'stern warning' if you're really polite. However, if you even start copping the slightest attitude with them, raise your voice or act in any way disrespectful, you're in for the max fine as they don't take that shit off foreigners AT ALL. If the truth were to be told and I was in their shoes; I wouldn't take any attitude from a tourist either.

Possibly the reason they don't target thais is that few if ANY thais are gonna have a spare 2000 baht in their pockets to cough up for being stupid and littering. Then again, even a semi-sensible person might argue, that this being the glorious Land O Thais, if the thais wanna let other thais litter, well I guess it's their country to do so in, just as it's their country to enforce the city's anti-littering code as they see fit.

Don't like it, don't frickin' litter. Sheesh, have some cheese with your whine. Oh the terrible injustice of it all. .. ...

You did give me a good idea though, and when I go out this afternoon, I'm gonna ask them if they offer a commission if I spot littering foreigners for them. I've got nothing to do and wouldn't mind doin' my part and maybe make a few baht to boot. ..

Someone has been here waaay too long!

He's starting to think like a Thai

Edited June 24, 2010 by Livinginexile

[dasy]

I'm not sure what is the "reds" you are talking about.

but in this case you can call 191 from your mobile phone for some help.

I'm sure those guy are not a real policeman.

They sure are they have been there for years and years and ..years to come.

[andyww]

So, it's not a scam and it's not new.

It dam_n well IS a scam. But not new. Happened to me 2 years ago on Silom road. A cop (real one) stopped me and accused me of dropping a cigarette butt.

I explained I dont even smoke, and turned out my pockets in front of him, no cigarettes, lighter, nothing. My wife was nearby, shopping, so I called her and she came over and told the copper the Thai equivalent of Sod Off.

Just in case she got on the phone to her father in case she needed additional back-up, but the cop just walked away.

Something really needs to be done about this, I cant believe this is still going on.

Edited June 24, 2010 by andyww

[lodesafun]

Fool me once shame on you,

Fool me twice , Shame on me.

A mate an I were walking from Emporium to lower suk, Being familar with the area I said to him "watch where you put that butt as the coppers here will fine ya" He took a last drag and dropped in the hole of the sewer drain. Just as he exhaled the smoke one of the coppers came up and said " litter fine" and produced the engrish sheet with the cost. another went and picked up a random butt and brought it back. My friend had just arrived from Aust. and had a brand of smokes not found here so the butt did not match up, So the agent went out again. I could see that we had some advantage and spoke myself for the first time to the remaining agent in Thai "Ha loy baht" 500. He said "you want recipt" laughing I said "Mai Ow" offered the 500 baht note, he accepted, we left walking past the other agent still trying to find a match for the cig we gave him.

Now when I'm in that area, I know there is usually a bin in front of the park at the bus stop. I finish, flick the cherry and bin the butt then I always look at them , Immediant eye-contact, Give a big smile and shake a index finger at them. They smile (of course) But they know they lost that round.

what they do there is nothing but revenue generating.

I agree with Livinginexile when he says "I was highlighting the blatent corruption and extortion on Sukhumvit Road"

Anti-smokers/ farang shirt politics-this wasn't a request to come out and spew your razorisms, Don't you have enough soap boxes already?

You want to contribute? stop getting plastic bags from 7-11.

Plastic bags...in the last 20 yrs They have blighted the enviroment here more than any other solid pollutant. except maybe us.

lodes

[tingtongfarang]

I just dont understand why you guys would stop and talk or get into a negotiation with them...Just keep walking in the direction you were going,

It works for me and also others.

[Livinginexile]

I just dont understand why you guys would stop and talk or get into a negotiation with them...Just keep walking in the direction you were going,

It works for me and also others.

Really?

Do they have the power of arrest? I often wonder what would happen if you just give them the finger and kept on walking.

Do these guys have the power of arrest?

[tingtongfarang]

From the 3 times they approached me i kept walking, If someone wants to scam me... stopping to talk about it never enters my head,

I would,nt give them the finger but i never actualy considered stopping to talk about a scam.

Edited June 24, 2010 by tingtongfarang

[llso]

After reading all the post about the wonderful job the Tes Sa Git are doing. They are basically garbage men. As someone pointed out they are not Police as they do not have guns.

The first time they got me between soi 2 and 4. I did it I dropped a butt, they got me and after a few jokes I paid 200 Baht. It is interesting how they have a nice color brochure in "English" stating a 2000 Baht fine.

A few years ago I was walking with a friend on Sukumvit. We had just come out of Vasu exchange and when we walked past the Garbage police kiosk one of them started kicking a cigarette butt in front of us. He grabbed my friend and pointed to the butt on the ground.

My friend doesn't even smoke. He had a mint box in his shirt pocket they must have thought it was a cigarette pack. Understandably, he became outraged and we pointed out that he had a candy box in his pocket. Then they notice I had a cigarette pack in my pocket and said oh, It must be mine.He picked it up and showed it to me. At this point I was almost amused at their antics. I speak fairly good Thai and showed him I smoke L&M and the butt he had was something else. He takes us back to the kiosk which was a few feet away and pulls out a tin can and fishes around until he finds a L&M butt. I started to laugh and walk away and he is about to lose srious face and he mentions something about I am going to go to Jail. Which really ifuriated me as I had done nothing wrong. Then I realized I had 50,000 Baht in my pocket nad settled the whole thing for a few hundred baht. Shortly after that They closed up shop for a while.

It was a complete scam and they knew it,

LL

[virtualtraveller]

The Police must be missing the targets the Pol Capt Thaksin gave them for income generation. And it's likely he's told them not to go after all those 'ashtrays you see inside restaurants' because it's bad for tourism.

TIT.

[JetsetBkk]

<snip>

Feel better now, do we?

<snip>

Plastic bags...in the last 20 yrs They have blighted the enviroment here more than any other solid pollutant. except maybe us.

lodes

Nothing wrong with plastics bags. It's the people who drop them on the ground you should be targeting - education, education, education.

Edited June 25, 2010 by JetsetBkk

[Pui]

Though it is very nasty to have stall owners acting as spotters, getting a kick back from a fine, while targeting "farangs".

The moral of the story is don't litter.

I for one am sick and tired of smokers who think it is their God given right to litter wherever they go.

For example, you go to a beutiful beach to find that cigareatte smokers have deposited a days worth of stinking buts on the white sand, turning the beach into an ashtray. Don't you even dare say a word about it to them. You will just likely get a very hostile response from them.

Cigareatte buts take a very long time to biodegrade. So they have polluted the beach for many years by their careless thoughtless selfish act.

Is it really so difficult to take the trash with you and deposit it in an acceptable receptackle? Trash cans are located in many places these days. If a trash container is not conveniently located take your crap home and throw it in your trash can!

My sentiments exactly

Its still a bit of a scam especially as they're not giving the perpetrator a receipt!

[jfchandler]

Thanks Tod, for recounting the real facts regarding these esteemed public servants, the "farang drop your cigarette on lower Suk Road and pay a fine" guys.

Indeed, they are not real BIB police, but BMA guys instead. The BIB have their own scams... This is a "different" one reserved for the BMA guys.

And yes, they have their own little booths at several locations, including near Bullys and the Marriott, near the Emporium and near Times Square -- all on the even sois side of Suk Road, as far as I'm aware.

Chalk it up to another one of those "only in Thailand" things. Never seen them nab a Thai for dropping a cigarette or otherwise littering. There's garbage and litter and offenses all around, but they seem laser-focused only on farang and cigarette buts...

I'd feel better about them if they'd only do their job a little better... including going after the Thai delivery and taxi guys driving their motorcycles down the sidewalks, and the street vendors who regularly block the sidewalks.

[Davedub]

Smokers are not the cleanest people on the planet

Steady on!

Are you one of those reformed smokers?

Reformed smokers often seem to attack others right to chose whether or not to smoke. I do actually understand their need to over-demonise smoking, but making sweeping statements about other people's state of cleanliness does overstep the mark a tad - I have a tidy condo, clean clothes and shower regularly, thank you very much!

Yes, dropping butts is not acceptable. I personally carry one of those old photographic film pots for my butts, as there are absolutely no bins anywhere on my daily routes.

However, I don't like the fact that smokers are a target for BiB scams - and I don't think it's appropriate for reformed smoker types to lend moral weight to the BiB's actions with comments like the above.

The issue should be 'Littering', not 'Dropping butts'. After all, the actual problem includes food wrappings, chewing gum, plastic bags, bbq skewers, etc, etc as well as butts.