Ministry Of Interior Holds Road Show On Rights Of Foreigners In Thailand

[Mario2008]

The Ministry of Interior came to Chiang Mai Grandview Hotel on Thursday, June 16, 2010 to answer a few questions and to determine what expatriate residents, consulates and the media feel are needed changes in some of the fundamentals of life for foreigners in Thailand.

Read the full story here: http://www.chiangmai-mail.com/383/news.shtml#hd6

The story confirms that foreigners can be listed on a tabien ban (household registration book) and that foreigners wishing to become a Thai citizen should renounce their own nationality. Interesting read.

[Mario2008]

It is interesting that the article confirms that foreigners can have their name added to a tabien ban (household registration) and don't have to own a condo or hold PR for that.

The law seems to confirm this. I found this in the Thai civil registraton act (2008):

“Section 36. The district or local registrar shall issue a household registration for every house of both persons with Thai nationality and without Thai nationality having a domicile within the Kingdom of Thailand.”

“Section 38. The district or local registrar shall issue a household registration for persons without Thai nationality having been permitted to stay temporarily and

those having been giving leniency for temporary residence in the Kingdom of Thailand as a special case in accordance with law on immigration and the declaration

of the Cabinet and their children born within the Kingdom of Thailand. In a case of permission of temporary residence overdue, the registrar shall immediately dispose of

such persons.

The Director of Central Registration shall make profile registration for persons without Thai nationality besides those under paragraph one in accordance with the

declaration of the Cabinet.

Registrations under paragraph one and two shall lie in the manner prescribed in the regulations under the discretion of the Director of Central Registration.”

http://unesdoc.unesco.org/images/0016/001621/162153e.pdf (page 154)

That should make things as opening a bank account and buying a car easier, without the need for embassy letters or immirgation letters confirming your residency.

[mahtin]

Thanks Mario, great stuff.

[Mario2008]

I'm disappointed that they don't seem to wave the 90 day reporting, even if you are on a tabien ban.

[harrry]

I hope that bit about disposing of the person is a mistranslation,

Very interesting post.

[Mario2008]

The article also confirms that one is now required to give up your old nationality if you want to become a Thai citizen. That will make it a lot less atractive to a lot of people.

But it is still a bit vague and I guess the last hasn't been said about his. First they say you can not use your passport of the old nationality, than they claim you must give up your nationality. But it seems in line what immigration is telling.

[Mario2008]

Another interesting point is the acknowledgement that the different treatment for foreign woman married to a Thai husband and a Foreign husband married to a Thai wife is unconstitutional. Seems strange to justify the different treatment with cultural differences. The law is the law.

[JetsetBkk]

It is interesting that the article confirms that foreigners can have their name added to a tabien ban (household registration) and don't have to own a condo or hold PR for that.

<snip>

I doubt if many landlords would be persuaded to add a tenant to their tabien baan.

[Mario2008]

It is interesting that the article confirms that foreigners can have their name added to a tabien ban (household registration) and don't have to own a condo or hold PR for that.

<snip>

I doubt if many landlords would be persuaded to add a tenant to their tabien baan.

That will always be a problem. But for those living in their wife's house etc it still is handy.

[JetsetBkk]

It is interesting that the article confirms that foreigners can have their name added to a tabien ban (household registration) and don't have to own a condo or hold PR for that.

<snip>

I doubt if many landlords would be persuaded to add a tenant to their tabien baan.

That will always be a problem. But for those living in their wife's house etc it still is handy.

Absolutely. Fortunately most landlords know the score and readily hand out copies of their tabien baan and ID card.

One of mine even went to the trouble (for security reasons) of writing across the copy the purpose for which the copy was to be used, in that particular case it was for applying for an ADSL service. So I couldn't re-copy it and use it for something else.

[crazydrummerpauly]

It is interesting that the article confirms that foreigners can have their name added to a tabien ban (household registration) and don't have to own a condo or hold PR for that.

The law seems to confirm this. I found this in the Thai civil registraton act (2008):

"Section 36. The district or local registrar shall issue a household registration for every house of both persons with Thai nationality and without Thai nationality having a domicile within the Kingdom of Thailand."

"Section 38. The district or local registrar shall issue a household registration for persons without Thai nationality having been permitted to stay temporarily and

those having been giving leniency for temporary residence in the Kingdom of Thailand as a special case in accordance with law on immigration and the declaration

of the Cabinet and their children born within the Kingdom of Thailand. In a case of permission of temporary residence overdue, the registrar shall immediately dispose of

such persons.

The Director of Central Registration shall make profile registration for persons without Thai nationality besides those under paragraph one in accordance with the

declaration of the Cabinet.

Registrations under paragraph one and two shall lie in the manner prescribed in the regulations under the discretion of the Director of Central Registration."

http://unesdoc.unesc...621/162153e.pdf (page 154)

That should make things as opening a bank account and buying a car easier, without the need for embassy letters or immirgation letters confirming your residency.

The first of these has been a doddle already - 2 years ago at Kasikorn Bank, Udon Thani, I opened an account without even remembering the name of ANY

guest-house or hotel I'd been staying in around the area - the helpful girl at a desk immediately on the right just through the door had good English and a

fantastic attitude - signed me up faster than anyone ever has back home - and as I say, WITHOUT an address, let-alone a House-Book. They just want the

cash and your name on their lists. SImilarly with buying a car or a bike - with helpful landlords and eager car-salesmen anything is possible in LOS !

Edited June 25, 2010 by george

[BanTamo]

So if the wife's on a 'Nor Sor Saam' rather than a 'Chanault' seems not to matter. Hmmmmmmm

[jonclark]

Would it be possible to register at your wifes parents tabien ban, even if you do not live there? My wife is registered at her parenst house, but doesn't live there, and our kids are registered there too. Also does anyone have experience of purchasing land for their children. Would be interested to know what happened in terms of the court approval?

[Mario2008]

The law allows you to be registered on the tabien ban, but if you don't live there you could be denied on that ground.

If you go for an extension based on marriage, you are supposed to live with your wife. So in that case, where your wife is registered. But you would need to apply at the immigration area of where you are registered. (At least some immigration offices insist on that).

I'm not sure if the article is correct on purchasing land for your children. If you purchase land in their name with your own money, it seems to me to be a gift and no prior court approval is needed. (But I'm certainly no expert on this). If you buy land with money of your children, you would need court approval.

When selling land or giving someone a lease on the land of your children you will need prior court approval.

[SKORPiO]

It also says that you can inherit one rai of land when your wife will die. Does this mean that you can own a house if it is built in that one rai and do not have to sell it? In a sense, you become a house owner?

I don't see anyone commenting in this, is this old news?

Regards,

[lowbo]

I have heard (from other expacts) of the issuance of a "Yellow Book" strictly for foreigners... the tabien baan book is blue. My understanding of the yellow book is it provides ownership credentials for the expat husband of the Thai spouse, and ensures a "probationary" period of two years is met prior to being placed in the blue book.

Anyone know of this practice or have additional info?

[Mario2008]

It also says that you can inherit one rai of land when your wife will die. Does this mean that you can own a house if it is built in that one rai and do not have to sell it? In a sense, you become a house owner?

I don't see anyone commenting in this, is this old news?

Regards,

The article does suggest that, but it is contrary to would I have always been told and I'm not convinced it is true. A legal opinion form an expert on this would be welcome.

[visions]

A legal opinion form an expert on this would be welcome.

Expert....pronounced ex - spurt Definition of ex = "a has been" Definition of spurt = A drip under pressure

Not sure I would listen to too many "has beens under pressure " in Thailand and expect a correct answer.

Ok Im just joking.....but ask 10 "experts" in Thailand the same question......and get 10 different answers.

[lowbo]

I have heard (from other expacts) of the issuance of a "Yellow Book" strictly for foreigners... the tabien baan book is blue. My understanding of the yellow book is it provides ownership credentials for the expat husband of the Thai spouse, and ensures a "probationary" period of two years is met prior to being placed in the blue book.

Anyone know of this practice or have additional info?

By reading the 'full story', I think I answered some of my own questions... those of us who hold either Non-Imm 'Retirement' visas or Non-Imm 'O' visas, would receive, upon providing the required documents, a 'Yellow' (Tor Ror 13) book. In order to be registered in the Tabien Baan (Blue-Tor Ror 14), you would have had to received your Permanent Residency status (another topic).

I personally, would not renounce my home country’s citizenship for the benefit of enhanced discriminatory practices as a Thai national. That just seems to be a little over the top for me… my Thai neighbor spent 17 years in the US and holds both US Citizenship as well as Thai… she also receives the US Social Security income benefits from her dead husband… what a deal!

[djayz]

A legal opinion form an expert on this would be welcome.

Expert....pronounced ex - spurt Definition of ex = "a has been" Definition of spurt = A drip under pressure

Not sure I would listen to too many "has beens under pressure " in Thailand and expect a correct answer.

Ok Im just joking.....but ask 10 "experts" in Thailand the same question......and get 10 different answers.

Yeap! That annoys the **** out of me. Ask any number of "experts" on any topic the same question and you will get a completely different answer from every one of them.

It never ceases to amaze me that there's no "common/nationwide standards". Anyway, back to topic...

[givenall]

The article also confirms that one is now required to give up your old nationality if you want to become a Thai citizen. That will make it a lot less atractive to a lot of people.

But it is still a bit vague and I guess the last hasn't been said about his. First they say you can not use your passport of the old nationality, than they claim you must give up your nationality. But it seems in line what immigration is telling.

All countries ask you to give up your other citizenship if you become theirs. But it is only said and in real practice you never can give up your old citizenship. Just keep all who knows

But if you are a US citizen and have legal issues in let’s say in Thailand then you are treated as a Thai citizen not US. Same if you are a Thai citizen and USA citizens then you are only considered a US citizen in USA

[Mario2008]

Many countries allow you to retain your old nationality, such as the US. Also many countries allow you to renounce your nationality.

[ragandboneman]

That should make things as opening a bank account and buying a car easier, without the need for embassy letters or immirgation letters confirming your residency.

That should

The vital two words everybody has missed so far. How long till this filters down to Somchai in the town hall, bank, garage etc etc.

Best Regards

ragandboneman

[eggomaniac]

The article also confirms that one is now required to give up your old nationality if you want to become a Thai citizen. That will make it a lot less atractive to a lot of people.

But it is still a bit vague and I guess the last hasn't been said about his. First they say you can not use your passport of the old nationality, than they claim you must give up your nationality. But it seems in line what immigration is telling.

When Indonesia insisted my friend's Indonesian wife give up her Indonesian citizenship to become Canadian, we were all in awe at the nobility of Thailand who allows my wife to maintain a Thai and Canadian passport and ALSO gave our, born in Canada, Canadian child a Thai Birth Certificate.

Can somebody explain why they would love dual citizenship going this way and hate it going the other way?

What if Britain, Sweden, America, Canada all decided to copy Thailand's mind set and insist that Thai citizenship be relinquished?

What is good for the goose is good for the gander.

================

eh?

Edited June 25, 2010 by eggomaniac

[JetsetBkk]

It also says that you can inherit one rai of land when your wife will die. Does this mean that you can own a house if it is built in that one rai and do not have to sell it? In a sense, you become a house owner?

I don't see anyone commenting in this, is this old news?

Regards,

The article does suggest that, but it is contrary to would I have always been told and I'm not convinced it is true. A legal opinion form an expert on this would be welcome.

Here's a non-expert's recollection: I recall that if your wife owns the land that you live on and she dies, you had up to either 6 or 12 months to sell the land.

Waiting for an expert to respond...

[steelepulse]

That should make things as opening a bank account and buying a car easier, without the need for embassy letters or immirgation letters confirming your residency.

That should

The vital two words everybody has missed so far. How long till this filters down to Somchai in the town hall, bank, garage etc etc.

Best Regards

ragandboneman

I seriously doubt it will ever trickle down to the local yocals. All you'll hear is Mai dai.

[dandun]

I am kinda confused here, this house registration thing in a new law? the reason i am asking is because i have had that yellow house registration since 2008 "married to a thai"

[chainarong]

It might be more benefit if they got off the ark and come up to speed to year;2010, not only on ownership, imigration ;but most; things involving the outside world , in such places as Singapore , Hong Kong anyone can invest and U actually own it with a title, I just got a residence ID for HK because of work commitments, it;took me half an hour and the same time for opening a bank account, but don't go without proper documentation.

Edited June 25, 2010 by chainarong

[hazz]

I was looking into this with my wife. The law does say that you can inherit your wife's land and keep it, but only with the permission of the interior ministry.

A classic example of a law written to facilitate corruption.

[Mario2008]

I am kinda confused here, this house registration thing in a new law? the reason i am asking is because i have had that yellow house registration since 2008 "married to a thai"

It is not a new thing, it can be done since 2008, and you don't ahve to be married to a Thai. The problem is that many amphurs don't know about the law and still refuse it.