A Bottle Of Water And Two Glasses, Please

[twofortheroad]

A bar owner in a Chiang Mai pub told me that for one of the big World Cup games an Old Codger and his Thai wife got there early to get the best table near the big screen, then ordered one bottle of water and two glasses. The place ended up full, with some potential customers leaving because they couldn't get a seat. To be fair to him, after about an hour, he did order one more.   

For the big game last night, a guy tried to get in with his own bottle of what looked like beer, but turned out to be Sato (who drinks that crap, other than Winos?). When the waiter told him that he couldn't bring his own drinks into a pub he stood outside and knocked it all back and then came in. He didn't drink much after that, as you might expect. He and his girlfriend took the best seats at the bar and shared a small beer.   Apparently, this is a common occurence in Chiang Mai pubs, and more so in the next few months with the influx of back-packers, some of whom don't even feel obliged to order anything.

Considering the time and effort  the owner and staff put in to running a busy event such as the world cup, don't you think these customers are taking a liberty? What would you have said or done under the circumstances?

[naboo]

I love falang kee niaw. They make me look generous! If it was my bar, I'd probably tell them they were stingy (stinjy sp?) little buggers, which would lead to them either leaving or buying another drink. Then I'd tell them they smell.

[Gonzo the Face]

Well for my two cents worth.... 1st it would depend if it were a regular customer or not.

If it were just the rare walk-in because of a special sporting or whatever event, I would politely talk to the person, as quietly, sincerely, and politely as the circumstance would allow, and explain to them that there are people waiting for tables or entry. If they were not going to patronize this establishment, then you will have to politely ask them to leave. No doubt there would be indignence replied but you did ask politely the first time. If they do get abusive, then I woud step up the tone a little bit.... to perhaps the level , that " this is a business and depends on people purchasing our product. if you do not intend doing so, you will have to leave now...... level 3 may go like, " the sign out front sez XXXXXXXX it is a business, this is not the Salvation Army, if you are too poor to afford a purchase, perhaps some of the others here would like to donate to your cause", others will no doubt voice the cheap charlie lines to them.....

Most people do know that it is not a free ride in the park,,,,, if you do not fairly treat the business or others, then the business is not obligated to be fair with you any longer, and does not need this type of customer.

Last resort before calling the police to evict the CC, may be in a louder voice shouting hey buddy, do you know what a 500 pound canary sounds like ??????

CHEAP

All done with the utmost politeness of course...

[gotlost]

Tel them to go drink with the low life's and kick them out. Also that's why some bars have a 1000 baht set up fee for BYOB.

[twofortheroad]

Gonzo,

   In both cases they did order something!?

[garyh]

Police would remove a Cheap Charlie? Freeloaders exist everywhere, another example is the using wireless internet at cafe's. Ask them if the want another drink, if not inform them others are waiting to use the tables if they have finished.

[Gonzo the Face]

Gonzo,

In both cases they did order something!?

Your are correct, but water and toothpicks are not considered an order...

I do not diaagree with you that they did order, but business properly run does not really conform to the letter of the English Language..... There is an understood fairness that has to be put forth by both the buyer and the seller ..... the table must be balanced or there is no deal

And I think both parties understand that.....

My business demands that when I give a customer a product/service I get paid for it.... both parties understand that..... but I will tell you that on more than one occasion I have seen the plight in certain cases, where I have come up with some story not to charge the buyer...... and at the same time trying to make it sound believable enough that the are not put in the position of losing face or embarassment.....

To those who as buyers try and chisel and conive to get something for nothing I say....

jlybtrotwtyaA

Politely of course.

G

Edited July 4, 2010 by Gonzo the Face

[twofortheroad]

 Personally, I wouldn't want to start a debate with people who should know better. They invariably think it's their right, and the ensuing argument in a busy pub, probably isn't worth the hassle.

[Gonzo the Face]

 Personally, I wouldn't want to start a debate with people who should know better. They invariably think it's their right, and the ensuing argument in a busy pub, probably isn't worth the hassle.

I can accept your position,,,,,, but think about it with the right spin doctor on the scene one's business may benefit.

G

[onnut]

Normally my staff come and tell me a guy is watching the football but does not want to order anything!

I then tell another member of staff to go over and show the menu or drinks list while I watch and if they knock it back I go and offer them something.

They normally do not say no to me. Don't know why!

[twofortheroad]

 Personally, I wouldn't want to start a debate with people who should know better. They invariably think it's their right, and the ensuing argument in a busy pub, probably isn't worth the hassle.

I can accept your position,,,,,, but think about it with the right spin doctor on the scene one's business may benefit.

G

Like Basil Fawlty? You could be onto something there. 

I'll tell my mate, but I think he's too polite to purposely annoy the customers.

However, if he was going to lose his cool, his favoured re-action would be strangulation, I hear.

[twofortheroad]

Normally my staff come and tell me a guy is watching the football but does not want to order anything!

I then tell another member of staff to go over and show the menu or drinks list while I watch and if they knock it back I go and offer them something.

They normally do not say no to me. Don't know why!

Are you big and ugly?

Thais ask  "Do you want a drink?",  when in fact they should be asking "what would you like to drink?".

I saw a customer answer that one, to the owner, with "I'm fine thanks",  to which he replied "I'm fine too...., now , what would you like to drink".

He got the message.

[473geo]

Give your full attention to the people who are supporting you, perhaps a little less to the water drinkers, after all if you need a baht or two that badly, there is a profit on water is there not?

[twofortheroad]

Give your full attention to the people who are supporting you, perhaps a little less to  the water drinkers, after all if you need a baht or two that badly, there is a profit on water is there not?

That's what I said. At 25baht a pop, for water, that's practically all profit. 

[newbie001]

I think that if business owners are afraid of people only drinking water on special events, they should have a drink minimum on those nights. Personally, I don't see the big deal if people want to enjoy the atmosphere of a place but aren't interested in drinking a lot. There are also those that will spend a lot and get drunk annoying everyone around them. If you have some "cheap charlies" as you guys call them, and they are pleasant people they won't hurt the atmosphere, but loud drunk and aggressive jerks might even if they did spend a lot.

I think that business usually have a mixture of clientele and if a place is filled with people using the space but not spending any money, then the owner might change policy, but if it is just one couple, who cares. One seat isn't going to break a person.

Business owners or managers that are too aggressive about making sure customers spend money, will actually lose money in the long run. Attentive wait staff that check in on people and offer them specials or something would do better.

Two for the road, I know that if you had a pub the sign would read "spend your money or get the hel_l out", but I just don't think that is good manners.

[onnut]

Normally my staff come and tell me a guy is watching the football but does not want to order anything!

I then tell another member of staff to go over and show the menu or drinks list while I watch and if they knock it back I go and offer them something.

They normally do not say no to me. Don't know why!

Are you big and ugly?

Thais ask  "Do you want a drink?",  when in fact they should be asking "what would you like to drink?".

I saw a customer answer that one, to the owner, with "I'm fine thanks",  to which he replied "I'm fine too...., now , what would you like to drink".

He got the message.

Yeap, Very!

[ChiangMai2]

Two for the road, I know that if you had a pub the sign would read "spend your money or get the hel_l out", but I just don't think that is good manners.

Or " No riff raff" perhaps?

[twofortheroad]

 

Two for the road, I know that if you had a pub the sign would read "spend your money or get the hel_l out", but I just don't think that is good manners.

"Get the hel_l out" is an American expression, so I wouldn't use that.. It's also rude and aggressive, which wouldn't work. I would  favour sublety.

I did say earlier  " Personally, I wouldn't want to start a debate with people who should know better. They invariably think it's their right, and the ensuing argument in a busy pub, probably isn't worth the hassle."

[NancyL]

The OP asked how other pub/bar owners would handle this and while I've never owned that type of establishment we had a similar problem when we'd bring celebrity garden writers/broadcasters to our greenhouse/nursery for "free" talks, but the seating was limited. We ended up selling "tickets" that were redeemable for merchandise at the business that day instead of just letting people take the seats on a first-come basis. We started this practice after observing some of the early arrivals getting in their cars and driving off without shopping right after the talk and celebrity book signing (of books they'd bought elsewhere)

I think the bar/tavern version of this practice is known in the U.S. as something like a "three drink minimum".

[twofortheroad]

The OP asked how other pub/bar owners would handle this and while I've never owned that type of establishment we had a similar problem when we'd bring celebrity garden writers/broadcasters to our greenhouse/nursery for "free" talks, but the seating was limited.  We ended up selling "tickets" that were redeemable for merchandise at the business that day instead of just letting people take the seats on a first-come basis.  We started this practice after observing some of the early arrivals getting in their cars and driving off without shopping right after the talk and celebrity book signing (of books they'd bought elsewhere)

I think the bar/tavern version of this practice is known in the U.S. as something like a "three drink minimum".

A great idea, but it sounds too much like 'Free drink minimum' for my liking.

[473geo]

If the owner really feels his hospitality is being abused, the answer is simple, put tablecloths and cutlery on the tables you wish to 'save' for regular good customers. When they arrive sit them down at these tables, serve their beer order and throw out a tray of nibbles (with plenty of salted varieties). Anybody else sits at these seats you make a polite request they either purchase something from the menu or move to alternative seating. Not too difficult is it? no lose situation (except the free nibbles of course, but an extra round of beer because of the salt will pay for them!!)

Edited July 4, 2010 by 473geo

[garyh]

I think that if business owners are afraid of people only drinking water on special events, they should have a drink minimum on those nights. Personally, I don't see the big deal if people want to enjoy the atmosphere of a place but aren't interested in drinking a lot. There are also those that will spend a lot and get drunk annoying everyone around them. If you have some "cheap charlies" as you guys call them, and they are pleasant people they won't hurt the atmosphere, but loud drunk and aggressive jerks might even if they did spend a lot.

I think that business usually have a mixture of clientele and if a place is filled with people using the space but not spending any money, then the owner might change policy, but if it is just one couple, who cares. One seat isn't going to break a person.

Business owners or managers that are too aggressive about making sure customers spend money, will actually lose money in the long run. Attentive wait staff that check in on people and offer them specials or something would do better.

Two for the road, I know that if you had a pub the sign would read "spend your money or get the hel_l out", but I just don't think that is good manners.

Charge for entry and give them vouchers for drinks to the value of the entrance fee, genuine paying customers will not miss out, the freeloaders will think twice.

[rodcourt49]

 Personally, I wouldn't want to start a debate with people who should know better. They invariably think it's their right, and the ensuing argument in a busy pub, probably isn't worth the hassle.

..sitting up at the bar and drinking something/whatever is quite a bit different in hogging a table and chairs meant for diners..not just at World Cup/F1/Soccer games..anytime wouldn't you think? It is an Open House type licence which must cater for anyone and everyone. As far as being evicted by the Constabulary, the customer would have to be misbehaving/intoxicated/barred and refused service to be requested to leave by the Licensee in the presence of Police. Example, many bar/restaurants will not permit customers to use the pool table unless they buy a drink..House Rules! Case by case evaluation, read in conjunction with the Licence Conditions for the establishment.

[Samuian]

How much narrower it can get...?

This Post reads like the Proprietor is in dire straights already!

Can ask these "cheapo charly" type people politely to move over to the bar, cause the table is needed for people who want eat, have dinner and as there are only a few.. what ever.. any body will understand!

[WinnieTheKhwai]

When people are already in, suck it up. Hospitality industry is called that for a reason.

To prevent it in the future: Put some "Reserved" signs on some of those tables.

Then decide who to issue those tables to. Use some sort of profiling if you must, you just know who are the water drinkers.

Or, increase the price of water, unless purchased with food or after X alcoholic drinks. (When drinking alcohol, the pubs I frequent will issue me a bucket of water for free but I kind of earned it by then)

[ChiangMaiFun]

A bar owner in a Chiang Mai pub told me that for one of the big World Cup games an Old Codger and his Thai wife got there early to get the best table near the big screen, then ordered one bottle of water and two glasses. The place ended up full, with some potential customers leaving because they couldn't get a seat. To be fair to him, after about an hour, he did order one more.

For the big game last night, a guy tried to get in with his own bottle of what looked like beer, but turned out to be Sato (who drinks that crap, other than Winos?). When the waiter told him that he couldn't bring his own drinks into a pub he stood outside and knocked it all back and then came in. He didn't drink much after that, as you might expect. He and his girlfriend took the best seats at the bar and shared a small beer. Apparently, this is a common occurence in Chiang Mai pubs, and more so in the next few months with the influx of back-packers, some of whom don't even feel obliged to order anything.

Considering the time and effort the owner and staff put in to running a busy event such as the world cup, don't you think these customers are taking a liberty? What would you have said or done under the circumstances?

you think that's bad - I was sitting in a bar and two Israelies walked in and started playing pool - not buying any drink at all - cheeky chappies then used the loo etc. I complained as it really peed me off - eventually they left - horrible people but they were so arrogant.

[harrry]

The wonderful thing about ChiangMai is that bar and resturaunt owners that become arrogent about how much their customers need to spend or treat lower spending ones badly soon have their bars on the market. WOrd of mouth is a wonderful thing.

[Kered]

Give your full attention to the people who are supporting you, perhaps a little less to the water drinkers, after all if you need a baht or two that badly, there is a profit on water is there not?

Many pubs maker more profit on a bottle of water than a bottle of beer.

[twofortheroad]

Give your full attention to the people who are supporting you, perhaps a little less to  the water drinkers, after all if you need a baht or two that badly, there is a profit on water is there not?

Many pubs maker more profit on a bottle of water than a bottle of beer.

Some people think that the water should be free. 

[millwall_fan]

I know my memory is feeble with age, but I seem to remember a certain local publican starting a thread about water that ran and ran.....I wonder if twofortheroad can remember that thread!?!

For me it depends on the circumstances. At the moment the sale of a bottle of water is better than no sale, but in the season I invite people to purchase another drink or leave - especially if they sit in the most popular seats. The last time it happened it was a German guy -not that that's of any relevance- who came in 4 nights running bought one bottle of water watched my TV all evening then left. On the 4th evening he got chatting to one of my regulars and I thought well at least he's a bum on a seat! When he left I asked my regular whether he was a nice guy and he said he was an arsehol_e. So the next night I met him on the way in and quietly told him there was a limit to the amount of time I was going to let him sit there with one water. He stayed 1/2 an hour left and I never saw him again. We don't seem to get those kind o kee neeows in the high season - I don't know why