Non Immigrant O Visa

[lopburi3]

Immigration department will not accept such a visa. Personally obtained means just that. You obtain while in the country the Consulate represents. As you would not be in the country of the Consulate the visa is invalid.

The Consulate you have contact with seems to take a very broad view of personally obtained. I am quite sure the MFA and Immigration do not share that view.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

He thinks he's right Lop. Let him give it a go.

[Axel]

Well, first of all, I agree a visa obtained from a consulate while not being within their jurisdiction is not a legally obtained visa.

The consulate will be the one who was cheated. When they receive an application by mail or messenger they do assume, that the appliant is within jurisdiction. If you are not you applied under false pretention. If you put a UK-city into th appplication under 'place and date of application' while not being there, you made and signed a false declaration.

All other points are a bit weak. A newly issued UK-passport presented in the UK must not have a chop as UK-nationals are not chopped in in the UK.

Let's assume for a moment you have shown up in person at the consulate, obtained a visa and arrive with your UK-p/port, containing only the Thai visa, at BKK-airport nobody will doubt the validity, even if you arrive on a flight from K.L. without having a Malaysian chop in the PP. (You have been in transit). Having sent the second passport from/to Malaysia and using this one once you arrive at Bangkok airport. I doubt the immigration will check check wether you have been in fact to the UK, however, if they ask yo where you come from before K.L. and you reply with UK, you again give a false statement.

The Thai immigration-computer will show that you previously have been to Thailand on a different p/port number and they will key in the changed data. The computer might as well show your last departure flight to K.L. but no trace in the computer wether or not you stayed there or went onwards to the UK.

A different story would be arrival over land. In such case the Thai immigration wants to see a chop by their neighboring country.

[Axel]

What I pointed out above are some legal points that could be applied.

In practice I send my second p/port together with appliction form, pictures etc.

to my office or friends and ask them to apply for me and return the p/port to me.

Will than use that visa and p/port on my next trip.

I do not need a visa for Thailand, as I am on a annual extention of stay with re-entry permit. However, my very first one my office in Europe obtained for me from the local Thai consulate, mailed the p/port back and I travelled than to Thailand.

Living in Thailand, I use only one and the same p/port, that holds pages and pages of Thai-, but no other stamps. For example, later today I will be leaving on tis one and arrive in Vietnam on another one, holding my VN-visa. The VN-authorities stamp me in and out and upon arrival back to LoS I use the first p/port holding my re-entry permit.

The airline-staff questions this. Let's say on the way back to LoS they realize that I have no ticket out of Thailand neither a visa. In this case I do show the other one.

A different story, however, if you would try to ask somebody in HKG or SIN to get a visa for you from the local Thai consulate. They might refuse as you have no entry chop into either place.

[LivinLOS]

So how is crow prefered these days.. roast.. fried.. raw...

Sorry, couldn't help myself..

Edited July 5, 2005 by LivinLOS

[dr_Pat_Pong]

I wish you luck.

[LivinLOS]

Mock and laugh all you like..

When a Thai consulte tells me its 100% legal and fine as I have maintained all along then who should I believe.. A forum post or an visa issueing consulate who tel me what I wish to do is fine by them !!!!

[dr_Pat_Pong]

As you depart Bkk for Sin, I wonder if the officer might notice that according to your virgin passport, you are bereft of any arrival stamp into Thailand.

[LivinLOS]

PhkKid,

You have a valid point and I will now edit my posts removing any consulate info.. I agree it may have been a little childish but there are probably many many other brits taking the advice of forum mods and leaders out there that dont know its possible to do this.. When you know its possible and the main people say its not so (while mocking the idea) its infuriating to be told over and over again its not a valid way to proceed...

Its not illegal.. Its not wrong.. Its a legit way to obtain a legit visa (so it seems mine goes by courier late this week)..

EDIT :: This ###### forum setup means you can only edit most recent post for a limited amount of time.. Dr PP if you could do the honours in removing the included email text and facts..

Edited July 11, 2005 by LivinLOS

[dr_Pat_Pong]

So how is crow prefered these days.. roast.. fried.. raw...

Sorry, couldn't help myself.. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

We'll bring some to you at the IDC. Posts deleted as requested

[LivinLOS]

You should probably remove the other one from the consultes explaining that its totally legal and how to mail the passports.. Have asked local immigration who also say the same and they are happy..

So now its the actual Consul himself, and the local immigration dept that say its fine.. They ALL agree what I have documented is factual and legal to them.

[wrestler7902002]

Wow.....glad to see you got the non-immigrant O visa on the grounds of 'early retirement'.  I'm in nearly the same situation as you.  I'm 49 and took early retirement and was wondering about the best way to apply for the multiple-entry non-immigrant O type visa.  You've answered my question...hope the members here can answer yours.  You're right about one thing....the rules and options do get confusing.

Good luck.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Apply for that multi by mail at the Thai Consulate in Houston.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

[wrestler7902002]

Apply for that multi by mail at the Thai Consulate in Houston.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If someone applies for a non-year non-immigrant, multiple entry visa from the Thai Honorary Consulate in Houston, can they just mail the necessary documents to Houston even if they do not live in the Houston area?

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Apply for that multi by mail at the Thai Consulate in Houston.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If someone applies for a non-year non-immigrant, multiple entry visa from the Thai Honorary Consulate in Houston, can they just mail the necessary documents to Houston even if they do not live in the Houston area?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Exactly. That's all there is to it.

[dr_Pat_Pong]

There is no legal way to obtain a non immigrant visa on the basis of early retirement under the age of 50 AFAIK.  What you probably/seem to have received was favorable consideration by a Consular official for multi entry O visas; and to obtain again you will most likely have to return to the same official.  I doubt you will be able to obtain in Penang.

Under the age of 50 you have options of tourist visa from most consulates and non immigrant O visa from a few consulates.  Income is not a factor (except perhaps to convince the few consulates of your ability to pay your way - nothing official).  The option you do have (below age 50) for extended stay is investment of 3 million baht (or higher) run by the immigration department.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

And what could happen if I drive over to Penang, mail my pasport to a consulate abroad for my visa and wait for the mail to return and drive back into Thailand?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well ... when you are caught ... it'll be jail, deportation and blacklisted from Thailand. That's about all.

[sriracha john]

Well ... when you are caught ... it'll be jail, deportation and blacklisted from Thailand. That's about all.

You ok, Doc? or just catching up on some old unfinished business?

Good advice as always, however...

[LivinLOS]

Except for the fact that its wrong..

As confirmed by A ) Local immigration B ) the overseas consulate in writing..

What law have you broken in Thailand ???

You may have a problem with the Malaysian authorities for not having your passport with you (get a second passport) butyou would have done nothing wrong in the eyes of the Thai government who will readily accept applications (to some consulates) by mail from people not in the country where the consulate is based.

[Maestro]

Dont know how your country views multiple passports but I just got a second passport from the British embassy to facilitate Hull applications in this manner..

I find it interesting that Britain let’s its citizens be in possession of two British passports simultaneously.

I know about the need for a second passport under certain circumstances, for example if one needs to travel to a country that does not permit entry to persons who have stamps of a particular other country in the passport. A well-known case are some Arab countries denying entry to holders of a passport with Israeli stamps in it.

However, when I needed a second Swiss passport for such purpose, I had to deposit my first passport with the passport office before they sent me the second passport. Then, when I wanted my first passport back, I had to send in the second passport. At no time was I allowed to be in possession of both passports at the same time.

Britain appears to make it rather easy also for someone to obtain a passport in somebody else’s name. Go to a cemetery, look up the name of a person who died as a child, write to the birth registration office (used to be Somerset House, now a different place) for a birth certificate in that dead persons name, apply for a passport in that name, and within a few days you get that passport in the mail. See this story in today’s Sun.

I didn’t think it was real when I saw it in the movie “The Jackal” but now I now better, but I still think it can’t really be as easy as that.

Edited November 9, 2005 by maestro

[dr_Pat_Pong]

Except for the fact that its wrong..

As confirmed by A ) Local immigration B ) the overseas consulate in writing..

What law have you broken in Thailand ???

You may have a problem with the Malaysian authorities for not having your passport with you (get a second passport) butyou would have done nothing wrong in the eyes of the Thai government who will readily accept applications (to some consulates) by mail from people not in the country where the consulate is based.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Post that confirmation from Thai Immigration

[mitmig]

Except for the fact that its wrong..

As confirmed by A ) Local immigration B ) the overseas consulate in writing..

What law have you broken in Thailand ???

You may have a problem with the Malaysian authorities for not having your passport with you (get a second passport) butyou would have done nothing wrong in the eyes of the Thai government who will readily accept applications (to some consulates) by mail from people not in the country where the consulate is based.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Post that confirmation from Thai Immigration

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Why does a falang living in thailand thinks he knows the the thai law better then the thai goverment representation in the ambassy off amsterdam????????????

[Crossy]

Except for the fact that its wrong..

As confirmed by A ) Local immigration B ) the overseas consulate in writing..

Post that confirmation from Thai Immigration

Why does a falang living in thailand thinks he knows the the thai law better then the thai goverment representation in the ambassy off amsterdam????????????

I too would be really interested to see the actual confirmation (a scan would do nicely).

Personally, I'd stick with the good doctor's interpretation of the law, it is the safe option.

Edited November 10, 2005 by Crossy

[LivinLOS]

Last time I posted this information from the Thai consulate I was slammed as having been a fool and for possibly closing the door for other people..

I have only verbal agreement from Thai immigration (both border people who have seen both passports at once and local immigration who were told the full story before application and then look at the visa afterwards).. Try getting any thing in writing from Thai authorities on issues of interpretation.

I will now find the email history and purge it of all the info that states which consulate and place confirms this in detail in writing.

[LivinLOS]

OK here is one that states it plainly enough re the application for a VISA from outside Thailand

-----Original Message-----

From: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2005 3:55 PM

To: [email protected]

Subject: RE: Non Imm O question

Thank you for your reply.

The ruling on where an applicant can be when they apply for a visa is determined by the immigration rules applying in the country

they are. In the case of Singapore and Malaysia (and most other countries) it is mandatory to have your passport with you, or

within easy access, at all times. In the case of most EC countries this is no longer necessary provided you have some other form

of acceptable identification. In your case, as a holder of more than one UK passport, it is possible to apply for a visa in one while

using the other without breaking immigration laws. Accordingly you can apply to this office for a new Thai visa at any time and

from any country. Please check the attachments for information about applying for a new visa through this office. Please also

remember that you are responsible for postage or courier both ways. If you have further questions please vrevert.

Regards

Royal Thai Consulate

[Crossy]

Looks fine to me. What do you reckon Doc?

A dual passport holder could even apply from inside LoS.

Edited November 10, 2005 by Crossy

[LivinLOS]

Then after asking about applying from Malaysia I asked about applying from inside Thailand as a holder of 2 passports. As I had already been asking for myself I this time asked 'on behalf of a friend' which is about as transparent as glass but was simply not to change anything he had already said to me in writing.

My mail to him

-----Original Message-----

From: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Sent: Wednesday, July 06, 2005 2:19 PM

To: xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

Subject: RE: Non Imm O question

Thank you so much XXXXX,

That really simplifies and clarifies things, as is also better than the bar stood experts have been telling me..

One last question.. My mate is in thailand currently (similar situation with 2 passports because he works in the oil industry).. Can he apply like this direct to you from Thailand with his second passport (he is a Brit passport holder also??)

Sorry for the many questions but it so refreshing to hear it direct from the source (and so promptly to).

He would of course use the passport without the entry stamp into Thailand so that he is carrying his legal passport with Thai immigration entry with him..

XXXXXXXX

His reply to me

From: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

To: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Date: Jul 6 2005 - 5:28pm

Thank you for your message.

In the circumstances I have no problems with him applying here for a visa in the passport (call it number 2) which he did not use

to enter Thailand. He would need to ensure he obtain an exit stamp in his other passport (call it number 1), the one with the entry

stamp in it. When he gets passport number 2 back with visa he can start using that one.

Regards

XXXXXXXXXXXXXX

Hon Consul of Thailand at XXXX

Royal Thai Consulate

[LivinLOS]

The good Doc has seen all this communication before.. For some reason he continually maintains it is not legal due to various ideas and feelings..

I have had dual passports and dual nationality for many years.. I am fairly used to flip flopping passports they wont let you at Ranong and I have heard now also at Sedao (though not tested).. There is no problem at all doing so on any international flights I have taken as if you use the 'clean' passport with new visa they would not know that you have not just left Europe and connected.. No stamps from Europe of course..

I did all this.. I then went and talked with immigration locally.. they were a little confused (especially about 2 passports to be honest) but were fine and agreed after discussing it with management and looking at emails..

I then did this via UPS from inside Thailand and followed up with immigration once the passport was posted back to Thailand with my one year non imm O inside it, I figured this was insurance in case I got any issues with a different border opinion. I thin flew out and flew back plainly showing what I was doing.

I never lied.. I never bent the truth (except the 'my buddy' question).. I checked at every step of the way with the people that matter.. It all worked exactly as I have stated.

What have I done wrong ???

Why will Dr PP not believe me that this appears valid.. Next year I have already been told at the end of my visa I can use the (now unused) passport to bounce it over to my home country and repeat the process ongoing for the cost of a visa application and 2 way UPS fees.

Edited November 10, 2005 by LivinLOS

[Maestro]

I have had dual passports and dual nationality for many years.

LivinLOS, I wonder if I misunderstood something. When reading, in your post of 01.07.2005, that you “just got a second passport from the British embassy” I understood that the British embassy in Thailand issued you a second British passport, in addition to a British passport you already had been issued previously.

Reading now that you have had “dual passports and dual nationality for many years” I think I may have misunderstood that earlier post of yours and that you have, in fact, always had a non-UK passport and now, since July of this year, also a British passport, i.e. one passport each of two different countries.

No, on second thought it can’t be that either, because you have had dual passports for many years, not just since July 2005. That means you are currently in possession of at least three passports: two British passports and one passport of another country. Am I getting this right?

[LivinLOS]

No not quite, I have multiple nationalities (though that is irrelivant to this discussion) and have held 2 UK passports since my late teens..

However one UK PP was filled up and all pages used about 3 or so years ago (since then I always spend the extra money for 48 page passports now) and so was 'junked' and in June of this year went and obtained a new second UK passport in BKK explicitly to attempt to try this system of visa applications (I have no idea how this application would work with my second nationality as thier consulate seems to run everything through London ?!?!)..

So basically I went to BKK.. Got UK PP number 2.. Then did the above in July sending the newly minted, empty, issued in BKK passport (passport was brand new, from BKK, and had no exit stamp, again no one minded this fact).. Started my first 90 days of Non O early Aug with a flight to and from Sing (done in a day, in fact done with 45 mins in Sing in total and returned on the same plane with the same flight crew !!!!) and just did my second 90 day visa run this week..

Costs so far was one additional UK PP, 2 UPS parcel posts, one non-imm O multiple visa application fee, one day flying into and out of Singapore.

Edited November 10, 2005 by LivinLOS

[Maestro]

No not quite, I have multiple nationalities (though that is irrelivant to this discussion) and have held 2 UK passports since my late teens..

However one UK PP was filled up and all pages used about 3 or so years ago (since then I always spend the extra money for 48 page passports now) and so was 'junked' and in June of this year went and obtained a new second UK passport in BKK explicitly to attempt to try this system of visa applications.

So basically I went to BKK.. Got UK PP number 2.. Then did the above in July sending the newly minted, empty, issued in BKK passport (passport was brand new, from BKK, and had no exit stamp, again no one minded this fact).. Started my first 90 days of Non O early Aug with a flight to and from Sing (done in a day, in fact done with 45 mins in Sing in total and returned on the same plane with the same flight crew !!!!) and just did my second 90 day visa run this week..

Thank you, LivinLOS.

I do not wish to enter into the question or discussion of whether obtaining a visa by mail from abroad is strictly legal or not, but I am genuinely intrigued and fascinated by what you have put into practice.

From what I understand now, you stopped using UK passport number 1 when you started using UK passport number 2. Passport number 1 remains valid and in your possession but has no remaining blank pages. What I am trying to do is get a picture in my mind of the chronology of the stamps you got in your passports and I gather it was as follows:

UK PP 1: some time in the past, while you were in UK,

– multiple-entry non-O visa issued by Thai consulate in UK.

UK PP 1: entry into UK on multiple-entry non-O visa. Exits and re-entries on this visa. For each trip

– Thai departure stamp

– foreign country’s arrival stamp.

– foreign country’s departure stamp

– Thai arrival stamp based on your multiple-entry non-O visa

UK PP 2: in July 2005, you obtain this new passport from UK embassy in Bangkok.

UK PP 2: sent from Thailand by courier to Thai consulate in UK with your application for multiple-entry non-O visa.

– multiple-entry non-O visa stamped in passport

You receive passport back from consulate by courier.

UK PP 2: in early August 2005, you fly Bangkok-Singapore.

– Thai departure stamp

– Singapore arrival stamp

UK PP 2: same day, you fly Singapore-Bangkok.

– Singapore departure stamp

– Thai arrival stamp based on your multiple-entry non-O visa

UK PP 2: this week, you exit and re-enter Thailand.

– Thai departure stamp

– foreign country’s arrival stamp

– foreign country’s departure stamp

– Thai arrival stamp based on your multiple-entry non-O visa

Please bear with me if I seem long-winded and pedantic with the above list, but I am trying to get a graphic picture of how it happened in your case.

I probably got something wrong again in my list and if I did, I should be grateful if you corrected it. To make it easy for you, I also attach the list as an RTF file so that you may open it, make changes, save it to your hard disk and then attach the new version to your post.

Incidentally, my interest in your experience is purely academic as it does not apply to my own situation.

LivinLOS_experience.rtf

[LivinLOS]

Forget about the old full passport.. Its only confusing matters.. In the past I have held 2 passports from the UK.. In being around Asia and doing so many visa runs (one day to Ranong with one day overstay turns into a full page used itself) the oldest of my two was filled and was then useless as anything other than ID, no room for chops, stamps or marks... I needed to get another second passport anyway and this one was junked.

I have been here many years and in my time have had Non imm B (from the days when you could just buy them) a run of 30 day stamps.. a 6 month triple entry tourist (used for 9 months).. More 30 days stamps.. Etc.. Its really irrelevant what visa I was in Thailand on as between spring of this year and July I was back to 30 day visa runs and checking my options (not 50, wont marry, better use for 3 million)..

So sitting in Thailand on a 30 day stamp.

Visit BKK and get a second passport (PP2).

Mail second passport (virgin issued in BKK, no exit stamp, obvious what I am doing, PP2) to my 'home' country consulate.

Consulate mails UK PP2 back to me in Thailand with non imm O inside it.

I leave Thailand to Singapore (carrying both passports) for an afternoon using my new passport to re enter Thailand and get a 90 day entry. This means that my PP1 has matching exit stamp to go with my 30 day previous entry stamp and PP2 is then used for my re entry (later the same afternoon with the same immigration officials running my name through thier computers as having just left with a different passport number.. No questions asked or eyebrows raised) PP2 now gets entry stamp and 90 days.

I now stay in Thailand with PP2 having my entry and exit chops inside it and having 90 multiple entries. This will be my passport of use (for Thailand) for the next year. The other sits in the safe.

Either at the end of 12 or 15 months (depending on if I feel doing a visa run a day before the non imm O expires) I will send which ever passport is not in use (does not have my current entry and exit stamps) back to my home countries consulate.

The consulate in question has agreed what I am doing in practice and said it is perfectly legal and above board. I have this in writing and keep it.

Despite what anyone says

A ) having 2 passports is not illegal

B ) mailing a passport internationally is not illegal (you have to for visa apps sometimes)

C ) some consulates are quite happy to provide visa's by mail

D ) some will accept applications from any country

E ) you must always have your correct passport with your Thai entry stamp with you in Thailand.

Despite peoples 'feelings' and 'thoughts' I have checked this with my local immigration and with my home country consulate. They are happy with it.. Does this mean another immigration official will automatically agree ?? I cant promise that but there are no laws or rules being broken that I can find.

Edited November 10, 2005 by LivinLOS