Your Local Embassy

[greenwanderer108]

This is an issue hanging in the back of my mind the past year or so. When, I initially came to Thailand, I was probably in between the neutral and positive of this poll...then the thing that everyone dreads happened last September.

Lost my passport along with 15000 baht and some other identification cards in a taxi. Tried to chase the taxi down, but he rushed off and it was too late. Didn't get the plates or anything.. I'm guessing he went straight for a bath and massage and that was that.

So I had to do the whole process of reporting to taxi radio with hopes the driver had a concious, no luck ofcourse. Then reported to the embassy. They had me get a police report to apply for a new passport imediately. As I had lost nearly all of my funds from my last pay check at the time, I was broke and asked them if it could wait. Maybe someone would turn in the passport, the money I can accept that being gone forever, but maybe, just maybe someone would have returned the passport and chances are it would go to the US embassy ultimately.

The Embassy didn't see it like this and insisted I do the new passport imediately. As far as them helping me out financially..."We would only assist if you were in prison and had no family" is something of the response I got. And this is coming from my representatives who own half a block on one of the most expensive real estate neighborhoods in Bangkok.

Anyhow, I managed to borrow enough money to apply for new passport. Which was almost 4000 baht. I paid about half that when I initially got my passport in the states.

The embassy told me on top of the passport fee, they need to charge a processing fee as well as I quote 'We have to send the application to Washington, where the passport will be sent'

"Can't you make the passport here in Bangkok and waiver that extra fee? I'm really hurting financially"

"All we can make here is an emergency one year passport, which is only for one year and a little cheaper. But anyhow, this isn't really an emergency."

Ok, so I come up with enough to get a real passport from Washington and they give me a date three weeks later to pick it up. Three weeks later, I get my passport, and what do you know. The day it was made was the day after I applied and the authority that made it (10 year passport) was Bangkok Embassy.

I felt so decieved by these guys who are obviously just running business on top of all this money they get from the US government. I've met plenty of others who lost their passport and it's always been the same thing...new passport, new fees. Never have I met someone who lost the passport and the embassy recovered it and saved the trouble having to get a new passport.

I mean if any Thai Bob/JAne finds a passport in a taxi, and are honest, the likely place it will end up is the embassy of the country. And if I had to guess, the embassy surely gets a lot of lost/stolen passports but never would never reveal this fact as to lose out on more business from their subjects.

How do you feel about this type of situation (with your own embassy) ? Any genuine/sincere comments or experiences are appreciated.

Thanks

[Kerryd]

Generally speaking, the rules at the embassies are made up by the government back home. In most cases, monies collected go back to the federal piggybank.

Some time ago, Canada decided to double the cost for it's citizens to get a passport, then a couple of years later, raised the price again by another 25%. Why ? Supposedly because of the number of people that were making use of the embassy/consulate services overseas. They raised the price of the passports to cover those costs.

Bold-faced lie is what that was. The majority of people using the embassy's/consulates are prospective immigrants and business people. The government was (is) trying to discourage people from travelling, so that they will spend more money at home (and pay more taxes of course).

Embassy's/Consulates are obligated to assist their own citizens. If you find that they are not being responsive, write a letter to your legislative representative (i.e. Member Of Congress, Member of Parliment, shaman of the tribal council, ect).

As most Ambassador's are appointed, they can also be removed very easily, especially if it becomes embarassing to the government. If your rep stands up in the House (or Congress, ect) and announces that Ambassador so-and-so appeared to be unwilling to assist citizens of his own country, well, you may imagine the political fall-out that could cause, especially in the US.

In Canada, they'd probably shrug it off and say, well, that citizen shouldn't have left the country. So what if he's in trouble ? Let him deal with it. We have more important matters to deal with, such as letting even more immigrants into the country, so they'll vote for us. Those d*mn citizens are wasting valuable embassy resources that could be used to get more non-citizens into the country ! Let's increase the passport fees again, to discourage people from leaving the country !

(believe it or not, that does appear to be the way the past couple of governments seem to think, based on their decisions).

[Boon Mee]

I had my US passport stolen from the Thai Embassy in Cairo a few years back and paid holy he11 getting a replacement. The passport was left there by my agent for a visa with the appropriate funds within when some Egyptian 'kemoys' broke in and grabbed it. I was at work down in Ras Shukir when I heard of the situation. Had to get up to Cairo and spend three days to get a new one after what seemed like the Spanish Inquisition at the US Embassy.

Never had a 'good' experience at any consulate or Embassy for that matter.

[chownah]

I think the real problem here is your inability to save some money for emergencies. Why do you think the embassy should become your banker? If you can't keep enough money to cover little emergencies like this then you should go back and get a real job and save some up...then come back. I bet you've still got student loans and that you are behind in your payments. Am I right?

[Boon Mee]

I think the real problem here is your inability to save some money for emergencies.  Why do you think the embassy should become your banker?  If you can't keep enough money to cover little emergencies like this then you should go back and get a real job and save some up...then come back.  I bet you've still got student loans and that you are behind in your payments.  Am I right?

No...the real problem here pal is wise-ass comments like yours when the guy was making a legimate point...

[lopburi3]

You passport was not made in Bangkok. It was issued in Bangkok. All except the emergency type have to be made in the US for the last few years. I expect your application was sent electronically but do not know that for a fact; and that would be why the issue date was the next day. It still has to be sent to Bangkok via diplomatic pouch.

[greenwanderer108]

I think the real problem here is your inability to save some money for emergencies.  Why do you think the embassy should become your banker?  If you can't keep enough money to cover little emergencies like this then you should go back and get a real job and save some up...then come back.  I bet you've still got student loans and that you are behind in your payments.  Am I right?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

In fact, I have not borrowed any money from government or parents for schooling. All my University/college education has been paid for by me from working---teaching/journalism...and that's a fact. One of my biggest struggles of staying on top in Thailand is balancing being a student on top of full time work.

Currently, I've been on academic leave this year as to save money and remember how it was to not be poor all the time as a independent student. It's great, I've been able to upgrade from small studio box living to a one bedrrom apart. on top of finally buying a notebook and video cam to suffice for all my digital artistic endeavors. Eventually, perhaps this fall, I'll have to return to Uni, and be broke again.

In the big picture, I can actually save more money working in Thailand if I didn't have to pay for University. Comparing the cost of living/rent, etc to when I was working in the states, it's hard to save much money working back in the states. Sure I could do it quicker if I were living rent free with family or whatever, but then I don't have the same freedoms and independence as I do paying my own rent, as I can easily do here and still have lots of beer money.

Anyhow, I never said that the embassy should be a bank to loan me money. If you read the post, it was this additional processing fee they had on top that they had justified as to cover shipping costs between Washington, etc. of the passport when in fact, the passport was made the very next day at Bangkok Embassy (where he told me they can't make full passports at the embassy--it has to go be made in the USA so thus we got to charge you extra) This is my oppinion was dishonest on their part, especially in their position as someone to look after citizen's interests.

If you think that I'm over my head on this, give me an example/experience where an embassy ever returned a lost/stolen passport to its subject saving the trouble of them having to get a new one with new (business) fees. Surely, lots of stolen/lost passports end up back at the embassy. There are some honest people in this world.

[greenwanderer108]

You passport was not made in Bangkok.  It was issued in Bangkok.  All except the emergency type have to be made in the US for the last few years.  I expect your application was sent electronically but do not know that for a fact; and that would be why the issue date was the next day.  It still has to be sent to Bangkok via diplomatic pouch.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't understand why the passports need to be made back in Washington as American passports aren't that complex--compared to European and even Asian passports. The only thing I've seen difficult to reproduce (if I were in the forging business) is the holigram on the front page. As far as the rest of it, it's just normal pages with state seals printed on them.

Someone told me that after Sep 11, new passports were issued much more complicated harder to forge, but my new passport is the exact same as my original one 5 years ago, which leads me to believe it wasn't produced with new technologies in Washington.

[Boon Mee]

You passport was not made in Bangkok.  It was issued in Bangkok.  All except the emergency type have to be made in the US for the last few years.  I expect your application was sent electronically but do not know that for a fact; and that would be why the issue date was the next day.  It still has to be sent to Bangkok via diplomatic pouch.

I don't understand why the passports need to be made back in Washington as American passports aren't that complex--compared to European and even Asian passports. The only thing I've seen difficult to reproduce (if I were in the forging business) is the holigram on the front page. As far as the rest of it, it's just normal pages with state seals printed on them.

Someone told me that after Sep 11, new passports were issued much more complicated harder to forge, but my new passport is the exact same as my original one 5 years ago, which leads me to believe it wasn't produced with new technologies in Washington.

I just had a passport made in Brazil - Rio in fact. They didn't even send off to the capital, Brazilia for it so...

BTW - it's good for 10 years too.

[greenwanderer108]

On the subject of Embassy's

As a citizen, am I entitled to go to one of those fancy parties I always hear about, or is that limited to a 'special guest' lists?

[Old Croc]

If you think that I'm over my head on this, give me an example/experience where an embassy ever returned a lost/stolen passport to its subject saving the trouble of them having to get a new one with new (business) fees. Surely, lots of stolen/lost passports end up back at the embassy. There are some honest people in this world.

Once a passport is reported lost it is immediately cancelled in all electronic data bases and warning systems globally to prevent unauthorised use. If the document is subsequentially returned to an embassy it is not feasible nor easy to undo this cancellation. You will always have to obtain a new one. Remember the passport is always the property of the issuing government.

[Boon Mee]

On the subject of Embassy's

As a citizen, am I entitled to go to one of those fancy parties I always hear about, or is that limited to a 'special guest' lists?

You must be joking!

[Old Croc]

On the subject of Embassy's

As a citizen, am I entitled to go to one of those fancy parties I always hear about, or is that limited to a 'special guest' lists?

[greenwanderer108]

If you think that I'm over my head on this, give me an example/experience where an embassy ever returned a lost/stolen passport to its subject saving the trouble of them having to get a new one with new (business) fees. Surely, lots of stolen/lost passports end up back at the embassy. There are some honest people in this world.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Once a passport is reported lost it is immediately cancelled in all electronic data bases and warning systems globally to prevent unauthorised use. If the document is subsequentially returned to an embassy it is not feasible nor easy to undo this cancellation. You will always have to obtain a new one. Remember the passport is always the property of the issuing government.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That makes sense but I'm still skeptical of that being their intent. Let's say the passport was discovered by the taxi driver that evening/morning and he decided to return it to the embassy imediately--before I even could report to the embassy. The passport being in the hands of the embassy, there is no chance of misuse then, there ought to be a lost and found database of passports/documents at the embassy whether they've been reported missing/cancelled or not...but when I asked the embassy to check if a passport had been returned/found, they wouldn't check (perhaps a buellitin board/database something) anything and insisted my only option was to cancel and buy new one imediately.

So what happens if a valid found passport is returned to the embassy. As your post suggests, they would take the initiative to cancel it themselves and wait for new business for a new passport instead of contacting the owner of the passport or waiting for him/her to recover it.

[greenwanderer108]

On the subject of Embassy's

As a citizen, am I entitled to go to one of those fancy parties I always hear about, or is that limited to a 'special guest' lists?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You must be joking!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

On the subject of Embassy's

As a citizen, am I entitled to go to one of those fancy parties I always hear about, or is that limited to a 'special guest' lists?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Seriously, if I showed up at the embassy or ambassadors house on one of these party occasions with my passport, would I be shut down or be welcomed as an American subject.

If I was recieved without hassle just for being a citizen, maybe my oppinion of them would be more favorable.

Has anyone ever been to one of these parties? Was it special invitation?

[HarryHacker]

So what happens if a valid found passport is returned to the embassy. As your post suggests, they would take the initiative to cancel it themselves and wait for new business for a new passport instead of contacting the owner of the passport or waiting for him/her to recover it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, I guess you registered your contact details prior to losing the passport, as per their rules, thus allowing them to contact you?

[lopburi3]

Perhaps poster should read the Welcome To Thailand document from the US Embassy available HERE

[Nordlys]

On the subject of Embassy's

As a citizen, am I entitled to go to one of those fancy parties I always hear about, or is that limited to a 'special guest' lists?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I don't know which fancy party you're referring to but I and my mother once did join a farewell party hosted by US Embassy at Dusit Thani Hotel many years ago for a US DEA agent on assignment in Thailand whom my mother acquainted with and we did have an invitation. I and my mother are non-US citizens btw.

[Old Croc]

That makes sense but I'm still skeptical of that being their intent. Let's say the passport was discovered by the taxi driver that evening/morning and he decided to return it to the embassy imediately--before I even could report to the embassy. The passport being in the hands of the embassy, there is no chance of misuse then, there ought to be a lost and found database of passports/documents at the embassy whether they've been reported missing/cancelled or not...but when I asked the embassy to check if a passport had been returned/found, they wouldn't check (perhaps a buellitin board/database something) anything and insisted my only option was to cancel and buy new one imediately.

So what happens if a valid found passport is returned to the embassy. As your post suggests, they would take the initiative to cancel it themselves and wait for new business for a new passport instead of contacting the owner of the passport or waiting for him/her to recover it.

Your first scenario is possible, the second likely. It would depend on embassy procedures, instructions from the old head office or even the whim of a particular counter officer.

[greenwanderer108]

So what happens if a valid found passport is returned to the embassy. As your post suggests, they would take the initiative to cancel it themselves and wait for new business for a new passport instead of contacting the owner of the passport or waiting for him/her to recover it.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Well, I guess you registered your contact details prior to losing the passport, as per their rules, thus allowing them to contact you?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

yea, i registered with them initially...but even though I've changed residence atleast four times in the last four years...either way I registered a permanant address of one of my relatives

I'm just wondering if they have/would even make an attempt to contact the owner if they receive an active valid found passport, which I highly doubt, as the processing fees are surely more beneficial to them, as they wouldn't have to put effort in contacting the passports owner, etc.

[Old Croc]

Seriously, if I showed up at the embassy or ambassadors house on one of these party occasions with my passport, would I be shut down or be welcomed as an American subject.

If I was recieved without hassle just for being a citizen, maybe my oppinion of them would be more favorable.

Has anyone ever been to one of these parties? Was it special invitation?

If you showed up without a specific invitation (not a p/p) you would not normally be admitted.

These functions are usually to welcome/farewell embassy staff, for staff morale or special occasions (Bush's birthday?) and networking with other embassies.

Being a citizen doesn't mean you get to join in when they spend taxpayers money on booze!

[Boon Mee]

On the subject of Embassy's

As a citizen, am I entitled to go to one of those fancy parties I always hear about, or is that limited to a 'special guest' lists?

You must be joking!

On the subject of Embassy's

As a citizen, am I entitled to go to one of those fancy parties I always hear about, or is that limited to a 'special guest' lists?

Seriously, if I showed up at the embassy or ambassadors house on one of these party occasions with my passport, would I be shut down or be welcomed as an American subject.

If I was recieved without hassle just for being a citizen, maybe my oppinion of them would be more favorable.

Has anyone ever been to one of these parties? Was it special invitation?

The sad fact of the matter is, as an American overseas you ain't doodily squat. The only expats that get invited to those parties are big-shot businessmen and such.

We're lucky they give us the time of day at our consulates and Embassys...

[Boon Mee]

Perhaps poster should read the Welcome To Thailand document from the US Embassy available HERE

Good idea lopburi3, but that info is so dated, the stuff gleaned off this site 6 months ago is more up to date than the US Government's drivel...

Edited June 29, 2005 by Boon Mee

[Rinrada]

[

Seriously, if I showed up at the embassy or ambassadors house on one of these party occasions with my passport, would I be shut down or be welcomed as an American subject.

If I was recieved without hassle just for being a citizen, maybe my oppinion of them would be more favorable.

Has anyone ever been to one of these parties? Was it special invitation?

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Those days seem to have gone..maybe they are trying to save dosh

I have on the other hand been fortunate to be invited to some "Embassy dos" over the years but mostly while working in the countrys and usually for major UK outfits.

The Queens Birthday was always the most sought after but you had to get a formal invite...ie ...H.E. Ambassador Sir Arthur Bumblestone on behalf of Her Majesty Q.E.11 wishes etc.... Also other less formal jollys usually involving trade missions,good will tours et all that...

Even got invited once (think Poland)to join the Embassy cricket team to play against Russia (old commi days)....me thinks...wots this cricket.

West Africa also was not bad since there was not a lot to do there and the local consul was always looking for somebody to talk to.

In the middle east you could sometimes prise a couple of beers out of them if they could find the keys to the safe ...."are you sure you would really like another...old chap."..YES thanks ...Algeria,Kuwait,Saudi,Iran ...although Iraq was believe it or not ..OK ...

[TokyoT]

I have had dealings with the US Embassy in Tokyo, Seoul, Shanghai, and Bangkok with little to no problems. For issues related to marriage, registration of birth, voting assistance, general American citizen services, additional pages in my passport etc.

When I got the additional pages the gentleman noticed that I travel quite a bit and would probably be back for a new passport before my existing one expired. He advised me at that time that the new passport would have to come from the US and to make sure I left plenty of time in may travel plans to accommodate for this.

As lopburi3 pointed out the current regulations do not allow the embassy to make the passport locally – with the exception of emergency situation (1 yr passports). The place of issue listed on the passport (in your case Bangkok) is not where the passport was made – it is where you applied and where you picked up the passport.

Your passport was made in the US of A and shipped via diplomatic pouch to Bangkok for you to pick-up.

A business associate of mine lost or had his passport stolen last year in France. Due to his travel plans he needed his passport right away. They issued his new (1yr) passport within 24hrs, and they recommended he apply for a new passport as soon as he returned to the US – as a 1yr passport is not of much value since most countries that need a visa require a least 6 month validity of the passport.

As far as attending Embassy functions this is no different than attending state or federal government functions back in the US. Some are open to the general public, some require a ticket/invitation you can purchase, but most are invitation only. Basically you have to travel in political circles to be involved in political functions – make no mistake embassy functions are political functions.

So dress up in your finest, bring along your passport, and smile pretty when they turn you away at the door. Just like they would back home if you tried to attend say Shrub's or Billy Bob’s inaugural dinner without an invitation.

You can also note that your passport also includes (in pretty fine print) the following words of wisdom: “Its (your passport) loss could cause you unnecessary travel complications, as well as significant expense.” So you can’t say they didn’t warn you.

On a more positive note – maybe thru the sale of your passport some Thai taxi driver’s daughter gets to go to Uni.

Edited June 29, 2005 by TokyoT

[lopburi3]

Perhaps poster should read the Welcome To Thailand document from the US Embassy available HERE

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good idea lopburi3, but that info is so dated, the stuff gleaned off this site 6 months ago is more up to date than the US Government's drivel...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It would have answered his questions about funds transfer.

[Boon Mee]

Perhaps poster should read the Welcome To Thailand document from the US Embassy available HERE

Good idea lopburi3, but that info is so dated, the stuff gleaned off this site 6 months ago is more up to date than the US Government's drivel...

It would have answered his questions about funds transfer.

That's true about the financial aspect.

Sorry, my bias was showing through re brusque, indifferent service typically received from US Embassys.

[lopburi3]

Perhaps poster should read the Welcome To Thailand document from the US Embassy available HERE

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Good idea lopburi3, but that info is so dated, the stuff gleaned off this site 6 months ago is more up to date than the US Government's drivel...

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

It would have answered his questions about funds transfer.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's true about the financial aspect.

Sorry, my bias was showing through re brusque, indifferent service typically received from US Embassys.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I noticed and am sure there are some that do fit that pattern but in this case the poster seems to have been here for more than three years, and all his funds were in his wallet, and seems to expect the Embassy to give him a loan. And now believes the Embassy is using passport replacement to make money.

I don't think so.

[greenwanderer108]

I didn't expect them to loan me money. I never said that, I asked them to be sympathetic to my situation. I asked if there was a way to waiver the unexpected processing fee that's almost the same cost as the passport itself---which obviously already has processing fees included in it as far as Washington is concerned.

Let's examine this processing fee. It was somewhere between 1-2000 baht, can't remember exactly and this was last September. Whether it's gone up or not since, I wouldn't be surprised. Now if I remember right, it was to cover passport shipping costs and the process of cancelling the old passport...oh and the issuing of a letter for Thai immigration (which was a few sentances long with some stamp).

Really petty clerical tasks if you ask me, that probably took no more than 5 minutes of somebody's time. The only big expense I can see is the shipping (if in fact it was made in Washington) and obviously for official documents, the US Government wouldn't have to pay standard shipping rates if any. Sounds to me like a profitable business...If it were any other type of business, I could expect such ethics, but not from my own embassy.

Even in this welcome to Thailand document of the embassy, I don't know how many times they suggest that if you have a problem petty/major, to contact the local police or tourist police...sounded like they'd rather not be bothered with our problems unless it was absolutely necessarry.

And they are making money off of our services...everything you need to do at 'citizen services'...whether notarizing a document or replacing a passport has some extra fee on top of the initial fee, or in someway is more expensive than if you did it back in the states (which already had services/processing fees included such as the passport---you don't really believe it costs 50$ for the government to make a passport?)

I highly doubt that the embassy's budget comes one hundred percent from the US Government...and it's obviously a big budget. Have you seen the size of the ambassadors mansion or the cars that any embassy official drives?

Whatever extra budget they aquire from 'citizen services' not to mention the revenue they receive from visa applications (majority declined with no refund), I'm sure it's a hefty amount.

They probably feel justified by making extra revenue from citizens here as most the expats here no longer pay taxes directly to the war hungry government back home.

[greenwanderer108]

If you showed up without a specific invitation (not a p/p) you would not normally be admitted.

These functions are usually to welcome/farewell embassy staff,  for staff morale or special occasions (Bush's birthday?) and networking with other embassies.

Being a citizen doesn't mean you get to join in when they spend taxpayers money on booze!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

That's what I'm talking about. If they're not willing to share the booze with me, to h*ll with them aristocrats.

Sounds like my importance to them is all related to *capital* unless ofcourse I died under mysterious circumstances...then my importance would fall under "public relations"

Still unconvinced that they are looking after the interests of their subjects, but more of the interests of capital.

Edited June 29, 2005 by greenwanderer108