Thai Catholic School Teacher Caught Caning Students

[Thules]

This has been an actually pretty good thread, with arguments and counter arguments equally and well debated on either sides of the fence.

I have my bias as already stated and those with alternative views who have described them so elloquently have certainly got me thinking. But when all said and done, these alternate views do not currently detract from what is the final point in Law in Thailand.

I.E. Caning is against the law in Thailand, and we must thus adhere to this law until changing it towards those who hold a contrary position.

[Fookhaht]

This has been an actually pretty good thread, with arguments and counter arguments equally and well debated on either sides of the fence.

I have my bias as already stated and those with alternative views who have described them so elloquently have certainly got me thinking. But when all said and done, these alternate views do not currently detract from what is the final point in Law in Thailand.

I.E. Caning is against the law in Thailand, and we must thus adhere to this law until changing it towards those who hold a contrary position.

The only, but very significantly, huge hole in your observation is that Thailand is NOT a land of laws. You're seeing this country through wester-colored lenses. It is a land of money, power and personal connections. "Adhering to the law" doesn't mean one whit to the average Thai.

[csolgosz]

This has been an actually pretty good thread, with arguments and counter arguments equally and well debated on either sides of the fence.

I have my bias as already stated and those with alternative views who have described them so elloquently have certainly got me thinking. But when all said and done, these alternate views do not currently detract from what is the final point in Law in Thailand.

I.E. Caning is against the law in Thailand, and we must thus adhere to this law until changing it towards those who hold a contrary position.

The only, but very significantly, huge hole in your observation is that Thailand is NOT a land of laws. You're seeing this country through wester-colored lenses. It is a land of money, power and personal connections. "Adhering to the law" doesn't mean one whit to the average Thai.

THAILAND: School Corporal punishment

"Caning in schools was

abolished in 2000

and

reintroduced in 2002

. These were rules issued by the Ministry of Education, not legislative changes.

According to

this June 2003 news item

, CP remained legal if both the student and the parents agreed to it, in lieu of other punishment. It is not clear whether this meant the parent was supposed to agree separately on each individual occasion.

However, CP was then banned entirely, in theory, in 2005 by further Ministry of Education regulations, according to

GITEACPOC

. It is not stated whether this applies to private as well as public schools.

Anecdotal evidence, such as that quoted in

this April 2006 news item

, suggests that corporal punishment none the less remains quite common and accepted in practice. According to informed sources, no action is taken unless a complaint is made, and some parents support it.

See also several video clips including

this clip

of a recent (jocular, but real) mass schoolboy caning at a private school, and

this clip

showing schoolgirls being caned.

In October 2008

it was reported

that the government was considering reintroducing caning at college and university level, in view of an increase in violence and disorder among students.

Caning in Thai schools normally follows a similar

modus operandi

to Malaysia, with the student standing up straight, either facing the wall or with arms folded in front to keep them out of the way of the cane, which is administered to the seat of the trousers. Sometimes the punishment is carried out in front of a class. Occasionally it is applied to the hand rather than the bottom. There is some evidence that boys are more likely to be caned than girls. However, these are only generalisations and there are always exceptions."

Retrieved from:

http://www.corpun.com/rules3.htm#thailand

6/9/2010

My understanding is that while against Ministry 'guidelines', or 'banned', it is not against the 'law' which is why most Thai schools still deliver CP. It seems that authorities only step in where there is clearly an extreme abuse situation, or as in this case and others, recorded evidence by students...

[Fookhaht]

This has been an actually pretty good thread, with arguments and counter arguments equally and well debated on either sides of the fence.

I have my bias as already stated and those with alternative views who have described them so elloquently have certainly got me thinking. But when all said and done, these alternate views do not currently detract from what is the final point in Law in Thailand.

I.E. Caning is against the law in Thailand, and we must thus adhere to this law until changing it towards those who hold a contrary position.

The only, but very significantly, huge hole in your observation is that Thailand is NOT a land of laws. You're seeing this country through wester-colored lenses. It is a land of money, power and personal connections. "Adhering to the law" doesn't mean one whit to the average Thai.

THAILAND: School Corporal punishment

"Caning in schools was

abolished in 2000

and

reintroduced in 2002

. These were rules issued by the Ministry of Education, not legislative changes.

According to

this June 2003 news item

, CP remained legal if both the student and the parents agreed to it, in lieu of other punishment. It is not clear whether this meant the parent was supposed to agree separately on each individual occasion.

However, CP was then banned entirely, in theory, in 2005 by further Ministry of Education regulations, according to

GITEACPOC

. It is not stated whether this applies to private as well as public schools.

Anecdotal evidence, such as that quoted in

this April 2006 news item

, suggests that corporal punishment none the less remains quite common and accepted in practice. According to informed sources, no action is taken unless a complaint is made, and some parents support it.

See also several video clips including

this clip

of a recent (jocular, but real) mass schoolboy caning at a private school, and

this clip

showing schoolgirls being caned.

In October 2008

it was reported

that the government was considering reintroducing caning at college and university level, in view of an increase in violence and disorder among students.

Caning in Thai schools normally follows a similar

modus operandi

to Malaysia, with the student standing up straight, either facing the wall or with arms folded in front to keep them out of the way of the cane, which is administered to the seat of the trousers. Sometimes the punishment is carried out in front of a class. Occasionally it is applied to the hand rather than the bottom. There is some evidence that boys are more likely to be caned than girls. However, these are only generalisations and there are always exceptions."

Retrieved from:

http://www.corpun.co...s3.htm#thailand

6/9/2010

My understanding is that while against Ministry 'guidelines', or 'banned', it is not against the 'law' which is why most Thai schools still deliver CP. It seems that authorities only step in where there is clearly an extreme abuse situation, or as in this case and others, recorded evidence by students...

Amazing: The law itself has flip-flopped about 4 times in 10 years. And having taught here in Thailand for those same years, this is the first I've beard about any of this! Such is our efficient communication channels in the educational system!

[elliss]

i had my share/along with many others of being caned at school in the uk .

it did not do me any harm , in fact it taught me to understand discipline and respect.

no disciline/ punishment ,, equals bad behavior .

[hyperdimension]

i had my share/along with many others of being caned at school in the uk .

it did not do me any harm , in fact it taught me to understand discipline and respect.

no disciline/ punishment ,, equals bad behavior .

It sure didn't teach you correct spelling, grammar and punctuation in your native English language. Some people might agree that you should be caned hard for such mistakes.

Others might think that the caning affected your ability to learn.

Edited September 10, 2010 by hyperdimension

[Somtamnication]

There seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding and differentiating between canning and downright physical abuse.

The guy in the video is classified as physical abuse.

A canning here or there, once, is not the above at all. But done with full force, then ok, it is abuse.

A canning, or a shoe, done once, hurts the receiver´s ego. More than one, that is a different story.

Now, let´s hear it from the pc crowd.

[paulrobertlane]

My understanding is that while against Ministry 'guidelines', or 'banned', it is not against the 'law' which is why most Thai schools still deliver CP. It seems that authorities only step in where there is clearly an extreme abuse situation, or as in this case and others, recorded evidence by students...

I am sorry but your understanding is incorrect.

It is against the law and furthermore it is a criminal offence and any charge bought is one of assault - this is clear on the MoE website. It is a full written law, established by parliament in 2005, and is not a "guideline". The law in question is the Child Protection Act 2005.

The current law is VERY clear - http://www.corporalp...om/the-law.html. It applies to ALL schools, both public and private. Private schools seem to be more compliant to the law due to the fear of losing paying parents.

Further reference

http://www.endcorpor...s/thailand.html

It is true that some parents support it, but no individual parent can opt out of the law. It is equally illegal with or without parental consent. It is also equally illegal regardless of the severity of the punishment. The law was made by a Thai Parliament to protect ALL Thai children. The Act received almost universal support across all parties.

Furthermore, here is a copy of the Ministry of Education statement on September 1st 2010 (Thai and English versions). This was issued in reaction to the video we are discussing here.

"Ministry of Education regulations strictly prohibit corporal punishment, and any teacher or other school worker who uses corporal punishment on students should be dismissed and subject to other professional and legal sanctions"

"กระทรวงศึกษาได้ออกกฎกระทรวงที่ห้ามลงโทษเด็กด้วยความรุนแรง ดังนั้นครูหรือเจ้าหน้าที่ในโรงเรียนคนใดที่ใช้วิธีการลงโทษด้วยความรุนแรง สมควรให้ถูกออก หรือถูกเอาผิดทางวิชาชีพหรือทางกฎหมาย"

A minor can notify the police and if they make a "report" the police will action it. A minor can also instigate the court proceedings. However the judgment of the court itself requires parental consent for that judgment to be applied.

Edited September 12, 2010 by paulrobertlane

[easton]

Lucky for the teacher this did not happen in an American public school or one of the kids would have pulled out a gun and shot him.

Seriously though, this is uncalled for. I hope the teacher is never allowed in a school again.

[paulrobertlane]

If anyone is interested the teacher was in court on Friday.

He + two other teachers at the school Mrs. Piyachat Khaonok and Mr. Payao Ipiti were sentenced to one year in prison and 8000 baht fine each.

The prison sentences were suspended for two years as they all pleaded guilty and offered to pay 120,000 each in medical costs.

There was no mention of whether their teaching licenses were revoked.

[Credo]

Thanks for the update.

[Lifetimelooser]

I speak from the position of a student who was beaten by teachers at primary school, then two secondary schools. I hasten to add that one particular sadist was actually given a taste of pain and humiliation by a group of students, who in their late teens, beat him up. It was not done in a dark alley, but in full view of the spectators of a cricket match. He was dragged off the pitch and taught a lesson. Unfair you may think? 6 against 1? Well, we were defenseless 11 and 12 year old when he brutalized us in front of the class and even school assemblies, with other teachers watching. It was sickening what he did. The scene of his crimes was Norwood High School, Melbourne Australia. I am now 61, so I expect there will be few if any of the teachers still alive, who stood by and watched. For years I wished I had the resources to take the Victorian Education Department to court, at least bring the whole story out. For years, and as recently as 4 years ago, when visiting back home, when I ever met someone who was at the school in that era, we would look with a wondering stare, and asked, "Did you know Jamison? There were hundreds of us.

But as a child in primary school, there was a stupid old bitch who thought that all I needed as a cure for my stuttering was frequent beating behind the knees with a wooden ruler, on my bare legs of course. The speech impediment got worse (oddly enough) rendering me also mute. And I began sneaking away from school.

Ok. Now I understand.

[GentlemanJim]

I speak from the position of a student who was beaten by teachers at primary school, then two secondary schools. I hasten to add that one particular sadist was actually given a taste of pain and humiliation by a group of students, who in their late teens, beat him up. It was not done in a dark alley, but in full view of the spectators of a cricket match. He was dragged off the pitch and taught a lesson. Unfair you may think? 6 against 1? Well, we were defenseless 11 and 12 year old when he brutalized us in front of the class and even school assemblies, with other teachers watching. It was sickening what he did. The scene of his crimes was Norwood High School, Melbourne Australia. I am now 61, so I expect there will be few if any of the teachers still alive, who stood by and watched. For years I wished I had the resources to take the Victorian Education Department to court, at least bring the whole story out. For years, and as recently as 4 years ago, when visiting back home, when I ever met someone who was at the school in that era, we would look with a wondering stare, and asked, "Did you know Jamison? There were hundreds of us.

But as a child in primary school, there was a stupid old bitch who thought that all I needed as a cure for my stuttering was frequent beating behind the knees with a wooden ruler, on my bare legs of course. The speech impediment got worse (oddly enough) rendering me also mute. And I began sneaking away from school.

Ok. Now I understand.

This has to help explain why you have that name. 3 posts and it took a year and a bit to add a four word answer that is totally unnecessary. Totally strange

[Reasonableman]

Barbaric, and never mind that caning etc used to be accepted in UK schools, control by fear is not how I would want my child dealt with.

There are other ways of dealing with wayward or naughty children that are far more effective,without the use of corporal punishment.

Can u expand on that?

I am open to ideas.

Agreed it is a barbaric practice, and common during my years of high school long ago in Oz. We even had one Master who prowled the classroom corridors, peeking surreptitiously through the classroom windows for miscreants. He carried a 3-foot cane inside his trouser leg. He'd then call a student out into the corridor for a quick canning. He seemed to enjoy his work. A sadistic inept fool ridiculed by all students. Detention was one alternative, another was cleaning up classrooms, writing something on the board 100 times. These deprived you of freedom and playtime.

Your creative and effective suggestions for disciplining kids at school would be really helpful, thanks.

[Mosha]

He looks to be limbering up between strikes. I think he enjoyed it far too much.

[jshorts]

^{I taught in a local thai school. The overcrowded classrooms of 60 unruly pupils made it impossible to teach. Thai teachers used a stick over the knuckles or pulled ears. I did not. Many of the pupils were sent to the principal's office.}

[Ulysses G.]

In my view caning , properly carried out, never did anyone any harm.

Stiff upper lip, old boy.

Edited December 24, 2011 by Ulysses G.

[sparebox2]

In my view caning , properly carried out, never did anyone any harm.

Stiff upper lip, old boy.

Believe me, the teachers only punish out of love of the students.

[kanderson]

Some 44 years ago i was "spanked" or "wacked" 3 times with a big board type thing ( Seattle Washington, USA). I was in the 7th grade and immediatly became one of the most popular boys in school. Over night everyone knew my name and the wackes didn't hurt at all. I can't remember what I did but it worked out well for me (probably smoking or peering into the girls shower from a broken window).

I don't think teachers should have that responsibility. I was spanked by the principal of the school. Those days are long gone I'm sure, in any case.

peace, compasion, etc..

[Mosha]

I was beaten round the head by a teacher at Grammar School. That resulted in a severe headache, which left me off school the next day. We had to provide a parental note. My dad was summoned to school by the head. He told my dad I was lieing. My crime? I hadn't outlined a map in ink in a geography class homework. At least half the teachers in that school had a sadistic streak.

[Fookhaht]

Some 44 years ago i was "spanked" or "wacked" 3 times with a big board type thing ( Seattle Washington, USA). I was in the 7th grade and immediatly became one of the most popular boys in school. Over night everyone knew my name and the wackes didn't hurt at all. I can't remember what I did but it worked out well for me (probably smoking or peering into the girls shower from a broken window).

I know exactly what you're referring to. Five years earlier than you, also in 7th grade, my butt met the fate of the "big board" as well--up in Lynnwood, WA. The WA. dept. of education must've had a patent on those things.

[geriatrickid]

Good gravy, this old thread has come to life. Lazarus reanimates....

[phiphidon]

A good candidate to be evaluated for -

Sadistic personality disorder is:

A] A pervasive pattern of cruel, demeaning, and aggressive behavior, beginning by early adulthood, as indicated by the repeated occurrence of at least four of the following:

1. has used physical cruelty or violence for the purpose of establishing dominance in a relationship (not merely to achieve some non-interpersonal goal, such as striking someone in order to rob him/her).

2. humiliates or demeans people in the presence of others.

3. has treated or disciplined someone under his/her control unusually harshly.

4. is amused by, or takes pleasure in, the psychological or physical suffering of others (including animals).

5. has lied for the purpose of harming or inflicting pain on others (not merely to achieve some other goal).

6. gets other people to do what he/she wants by frightening them (through intimidation or even terror).

7. restricts the autonomy of people with whom he or she has a close relationship, e.g., will not let spouse leave the house unaccompanied or permit teenage daughter to attend social functions.

8. is fascinated by violence, weapons, injury, or torture.

B] The behavior in A has not been directed toward only one person (e.g., spouse, one child) and has not been solely for the purpose of sexual arousal (as in sexual sadism).

would that include "Hang them high" posters. and various other comments like these that poke fun on foreigners in Thai jail?

specially if i look at point 4 or 8.

Or even Thais in Thai jails for example, Red shirts eh Buchholz?

[lannarebirth]

I'm a little late to this topic of "Thai Catholic School Teacher Caught Caning Students". I didn't read the OP or any of the intravening posts. The title did remind of something my Dad said once. I came home one day and was complaining about how the priest had been whacking my ass with a yardstick. My father said "well, I can't be there to do it all the time, now can I?

Edited December 24, 2011 by lannarebirth

[animatic]

This teacher needs to be caned, publicly.

<deleted> this is an ART teacher...

where does he imaging he deserves the authority to do this.

He needs to be caned by the Malaysians or Singaporeans in public.

They do it very well by most reports.

Let's see if the sadist likes being a masochist too.

[sparebox2]

This teacher needs to be caned, publicly.

<deleted> this is an ART teacher...

where does he imaging he deserves the authority to do this.

He needs to be caned by the Malaysians or Singaporeans in public.

They do it very well by most reports.

Let's see if the sadist likes being a masochist too.

Thai parents is OK with those punishment from the teacher. Same them from doing it themselves.

[Roadman]

I'm a little late to this topic of "Thai Catholic School Teacher Caught Caning Students". I didn't read the OP or any of the intravening posts. The title did remind of something my Dad said once. I came home one day and was complaining about how the priest had been whacking my ass with a yardstick. My father said "well, I can't be there to do it all the time, now can I?

That is what my father would have said also. And I agree with him. Young adolescent males need stronger and enforced boundaries than other sectors of our society.

I went to catholic schools up to primary level and state secondary schools. I was caned often at all schools because I was a right little a-hole. Of all the times I was caned, apart from one, I was deserving of the punishment. At all those deserved times it was carried out with the same precision as what is displayed in the OP video. It does smart on the arse for a while but by the time I got to secondary school, class or group canings such as this videoed one were treated with the same bravo and fellow student humour as this one is. I have no problem with the punishment (if it is for a justified offence) as the teacher is in control and carrying out the punishment with precision targeting to the bum. I would have a problem thou if the students were a lot younger boys or female of any age.

Edited December 24, 2011 by Roadman

[travelmann]

There were two types of teacher at my school those that you could p*ss all over and those that we knew would beat the sh*t out of us if we so much as farted in class.............which ones do you think had the well behaved class and got respect??

Edited December 24, 2011 by travelmann

[travelmann]

Whats laughable is how Thais are in uproar about this but when they want to they will kill you for losing face over something stupid.............well according to TV anyway.

[macksview]

disturbing video.

my father's reflections from when he was a young teacher, who worked in working class schools in nottingham and north london in the 60's, he always had to be the "hard bustard" he was of the same belief, as his contemporarys that were a new breed who did not support corporal punishment.

my father, as the physical education master developed alternative methods to the cane, he always gave the offending students, extra duties at lunch time or after school, cleaning gym equipment, painting and repairing damaged items around the school, marking the sports fields, cleaning the assembly hall.

many of these boys, would later play in a football team he formed and played in, for the lads who had left school but still wanted to play.

he always said, that most of the offenders were the sort of children, who would be following their fathers into mannual work, in the pits or the factories/building sites.

as i went to school in australia, caning was still used only by the principal but most commonly, by the vice principal, i had the cane a few times in primary school, it was part of the right of passage for most of my friends, it never did me any harm, it just made me a little bit more cunning.

at high school, we viewed being caned as something so "uncool", only the real hooligans got that.