Thai Catholic School Teacher Caught Caning Students

[Deeral]

"I'm very sorry, you can do as much research as you want but it is not as good as practical first hand experience..."

QED

[Deeral]

Vinnie - would you care to say where you teach?I'd like to sit in on one of your classes.

[Englander]

So what's the problem?

Coward.

Youre as bad as a paedophile if you think hitting kids in this way is acceptable.

Edited September 1, 2010 by Englander

[paulrobertlane]

The arguments about right or wrong will go on forever, as will the responses about being hit ourselves when we were younger.

However the fact is that its illegal in Thailand (source http://www.corporalpunishmentthailand.com/the-law.html). if a teacher hits the kid they are breaking the law and putting their jobs at risk. Does any society want law breakers teaching in schools regardless of whether they agree with it or not?

Some people are getting quite serious about this i.e. the Womens and Child protection Unit and even the Ministry of Education has an article on its website encouraging children to report teachers to the authorities. Yes, I know TiT and we know it happens but I can see more and more complainst coming as parents sniff the financial benefits of reporting for compensation.

Personally i dont want criminals (and lets make no bones about it if they break the law they are) teaching my kids.

[Deeral]

The arguments about right or wrong will go on forever, as will the responses about being hit ourselves when we were younger.

However the fact is that its illegal in Thailand (source http://www.corporalp...om/the-law.html). if a teacher hits the kid they are breaking the law and putting their jobs at risk. Does any society want law breakers teaching in schools regardless of whether they agree with it or not?

Some people are getting quite serious about this i.e. the Womens and Child protection Unit and even the Ministry of Education has an article on its website encouraging children to report teachers to the authorities. Yes, I know TiT and we know it happens but I can see more and more complainst coming as parents sniff the financial benefits of reporting for compensation.

Personally i dont want criminals (and lets make no bones about it if they break the law they are) teaching my kids.

....and it would appear that several posters on this thread are condoning criminal acts.and WORSE it seems some are actually TEACHERS (I use the term loosely) or at least have access to classes......

[Englander]

but I can see more and more complainst coming as parents sniff the financial benefits of reporting for compensation.

If this is what it takes then thats fantastic.

[sausageandmash]

Where's that, Poofsville?

This teacher would have a very shortened lifespan in my hometown.....

[MikeyIdea]

but I can see more and more complainst coming as parents sniff the financial benefits of reporting for compensation.

If this is what it takes then thats fantastic.

I thought about what do and say here and I must say that I come up with exactly the same conclusion

if anyone can provide EVIDENCE, then I have no problem with them being rewarded a bit for taking the trouble of handing it over to someone who wants to do something with it

[sausageandmash]

What a stupid thing to say. How can you compare disciplining a child with paedophilia?

Don't you understand that most Thai parents condone teachers hitting their kids, because they are too dam_n lazy to do it themselves.

I used to teach 3 teenage Thai boys. They told me that their parents never hit them, but their school teachers do.

So what's the problem?

Coward.

Youre as bad as a paedophile if you think hitting kids in this way is acceptable.

[MikeyIdea]

Don't you understand that most Thai parents condone teachers hitting their kids, because they are too dam_n lazy to do it themselves.

**************

I used to teach 3 teenage Thai boys. They told me that their parents never hit them, but their school teachers do.

I am sure that all of us here bow to you because of your enormous experience.

Would you please post again when you have more experience to base your observations on

[Deeral]

What a stupid thing to say. How can you compare disciplining a child with paedophilia?

Don't you understand that most Thai parents condone teachers hitting their kids, because they are too dam_n lazy to do it themselves.

I used to teach 3 teenage Thai boys. They told me that their parents never hit them, but their school teachers do.

So what's the problem?

Coward.

Youre as bad as a paedophile if you think hitting kids in this way is acceptable.

THey are both forms of child abuse.stemming from adults' inadequacies.there is an alarming amount in common

[HereIAm]

Buccholz and Jackr

Thank you for your posts. Probably my sarcasm in saying that he was "reasonable in administering just one swish each" did not communicate itself well. But I also said it seemed vicious and that he had lost his sense of proportion. I retained uncertain terms like "probably" and "seemed" only because, all said and done, the whole thing appeared a bit fake to me. Nevertheless occasion enough to debate the pros and cons of caning.

It does seem gut-wrenching, doesn't it, when you pull down the pants of victims to display that ugly weal from that caning ? By the way, it struck me odd that grown up boys could stand like that in front of ladies. Whoa, let me not stray from topic.

How about pulling down the pants of civil society today all over the world to reveal the countless weals it has suffered from the acts of undisciplined, uncivilised members of society ? At the expense of sounding wicked or facetious, let me say that the weal from caning would heal in a month or two maybe, but the weals society suffers from the acts of stock brokers, Wall Street executives gone wild, gangsters, politicians, and otherwise ordinary civilians "losing it" (remember Aldhouse) is long term and probably never heals. Families that suffer the loss of their loved ones to wanton thoughtless acts of others know that.

But then the same civil society also funds the human rights anarchists who pull down the pants of wrong doers to display and cash in on the weals of punishment inflicted on their buttocks yet wilfully turn a blind eye to the harm that society and unarmed civilians suffer from the acts of these same wrong-doers.

It can well be argued that the vicious caning does turn kids into vicious adults, but that is not the type of disciplining in school we are talking about. This videotaped incident (if it was not stage managed) was a vicious illustration of a psychopath gone berserk. No doubt about that in my opinion. But that was NOT what went on in the schools of yore. We had the ratan cane (not a bamboo stick or anything rigid); a cane that would emit an ominous swish as it came cleaving thro the air. The noise was enough to terrify. The caning was administered usually on the hands or the butt. The caning was always reserved to be carried out by the headmaster, not by teachers.

And, as I said, it was never in anger but in stern disapproval, meant to communicate to the student that he had crossed the limits of acceptable behaviour.

And be warned : if misguided people who have never known disciplining turn into terrorists and criminals that civil law appears toothless to deal with (courtesy human rights anarchists) it will be inevitable for all of society to turn aggressive in self defence. "No courts, no police, let's finish this matter ourselves." That's not what we want, do we ?

Don't be too preoccupied with this videotaped act of sadism. It's not what we are talking of here really, but it just sparked off a debate on the real thing, namely administered caning in schools.

Edited September 1, 2010 by HereIAm

[paulrobertlane]

Don't you understand that most Thai parents condone teachers hitting their kids, because they are too dam_n lazy to do it themselves.

Not actually true. Recent surveys show that a majority of Thai parents object to corporal punishment by teachers. If you can read Thai its one of the articles here. It also includes the MoE article I referred to earlier.

http://www.thai.corporalpunishmentthailand.com/news-articles-from-other-thai-websites.html

[paulrobertlane]

Buccholz and Jackr

Thank you for your posts. Probably my sarcasm in saying that he was "reasonable in administering just one swish each" did not communicate itself well. But I also said it seemed vicious and that he had lost his sense of proportion. I retained uncertain terms like "probably" and "seemed" only because, all said and done, the whole thing appeared a bit fake to me. Nevertheless occasion enough to debate the pros and cons of caning.

It does seem gut-wrenching, doesn't it, when you pull down the pants of victims to display that ugly weal from that caning ? By the way, it struck me odd that grown up boys could stand like that in front of ladies. Whoa, let me not stray from topic.

How about pulling down the pants of civil society today all over the world to reveal the countless weals it has suffered from the acts of undisciplined, uncivilised members of society ? At the expense of sounding wicked or facetious, let me say that the weal from caning would heal in a month or two maybe, but the weals society suffers from the acts of stock brokers, Wall Street executives gone wild, gangsters, politicians, and otherwise ordinary civilians "losing it" (remember Aldhouse) is long term and probably never heals. Families that suffer the loss of their loved ones to wanton thoughtless acts of others know that.

But then the same civil society also funds the human rights anarchists who pull down the pants of wrong doers to display and cash in on the weals of punishment inflicted on their buttocks yet wilfully turn a blind eye to the harm that society and unarmed civilians suffer from the acts of these same wrong-doers.

It can well be argued that the vicious caning does turn kids into vicious adults, but that is not the type of disciplining in school we are talking about. This videotaped incident (if it was not stage managed) was a vicious illustration of a psychopath gone berserk. No doubt about that in my opinion. But that was NOT what went on in the schools of yore. We had the ratan cane (not a bamboo stick or anything rigid); a cane that would emit an ominous swish as it came cleaving thro the air. The noise was enough to terrify. The caning was administered usually on the hands or the butt. The caning was always reserved to be carried out by the headmaster, not by teachers.

And, as I said, it was never in anger but in stern disapproval, meant to communicate to the student that he had crossed the limits of acceptable behaviour.

And be warned : if misguided people who have never known disciplining turn into terrorists and criminals that civil law appears toothless to deal with (courtesy human rights anarchists) it will be inevitable for all of society to turn aggressive in self defence. "No courts, no police, let's finish this matter ourselves." That's not what we want, do we ?

Don't be too preoccupied with this videotaped act of sadism. It's not what we are talking of here really, but it just sparked off a debate on the real thing, namely administered caning in schools.

Some good point at the end but we also need the rule of law.

If caning were legal I would not argue (although in the case of this video it would be an exception).

Law is law and we all need to abide by it whether we agree with it or not. Teachers who hit kids in Thai schools are breaking the law and committing a crime. Its a very rocky road when teachers expect students to have respect for the law but have no regard for it themselves. There should be no place in schools for criminals.

Edited September 1, 2010 by paulrobertlane

[jackspratt]

I can't be bothered going through the exercise of looking, but it did cross my mind when reading through this thread as to whether there is any correlation between TV's resident "hang 'em high" mob, and this thread's "cane 'em hard - it never did me any harm" mob.

[sirchai]

This teacher needs to be caned, publicly.

cmon thats nothing !! the kids are laughing, we used to get 3/4 of those regulary and it was a common thing, 6 of the best for the worst "crimes". Im all for caning back at school, kids have no discipline and behaviour days, gone has the respect too. We didnt have ceel phones but they should be banned, they are a real distraction at school. It was even a proepr cane, we would have bruises sometimes cuts for 2/3 weeks after, i liked his warm before the stroke....LOL

Would something like this happen to my son, I'd pay somebody to let him know what real pain is. He wouldn't be back at school. How can you call him a teacher?

Okay, let's face it. some teachers at elementary schools are using bamboo sticks to hit the little kids. But it's over at high school level.

I hope the students in this movie will find him in the middle of the night.

Good to have cell phones in the classroom.........

Hey please, read the forum rules and don't add sentences to mine. Guess it's time for an Administrator to give you a long break.

[hyperdimension]

What a stupid thing to say. How can you compare disciplining a child with paedophilia?

Don't you understand that most Thai parents condone teachers hitting their kids, because they are too dam_n lazy to do it themselves.

I used to teach 3 teenage Thai boys. They told me that their parents never hit them, but their school teachers do.

So what's the problem?

Coward.

Youre as bad as a paedophile if you think hitting kids in this way is acceptable.

THey are both forms of child abuse.stemming from adults' inadequacies.there is an alarming amount in common

I agree, and even tend to think that violence inflicted upon children is worse than non-violent paedophilic child abuse.

e.g., which is worse:

1. Pulling down the underwear of a child (just to look);

2. Pulling down the underwear of a child and caning his or her buttocks enough to make him or her cry in pain and leave painful marks that last for weeks like those shown in the photos in this thread?

At least in 1 the child was never under any pain or suffering. I don't condone either, but 2 is obviously much more abhorrent and it seems many of you guys condone such violence as a form of punishment.

Some of you condone lighter caning, but that is still violence. Would you hit your wife with a stick, even lightly, to punish her? You may say "but she's an adult", but many Thai women look and act like young teenagers.

Edited September 1, 2010 by hyperdimension

[deeks]

It didn't hurt me.

[Englander]

What a stupid thing to say. How can you compare disciplining a child with paedophilia?

Don't you understand that most Thai parents condone teachers hitting their kids, because they are too dam_n lazy to do it themselves.

I used to teach 3 teenage Thai boys. They told me that their parents never hit them, but their school teachers do.

So what's the problem?

Coward.

Youre as bad as a paedophile if you think hitting kids in this way is acceptable.

Did you not see the video, beating a child in such a way is sickening.

But your post is utter nonsense that parents are too lazy to hit kids themselves so they let teachers to do it, the reason they dont hit them is because they dont want them to be hit.

My kid will be raised to know that if someone hits you hit them back and defend yourself by whatever means necessary.

[balo]

TIT

Still its good that more videos like this will be published so we can get rid of the sadistic violent teachers, they should never be in a position to teach.

[Deeral]

so....like it or not,

it is Child abuse,

it damages rather than "improves" children,

Those who practice it either have behavioural problems of their own, or are perverts or of one kind or another

Furthermore consider this - if they deal in such a physical manner with a child who has annoyed them what happens at the other end of the scale when they want to show a child affection?????????

.....and those who "think' it "did them no harm" - think again - there have been people on this thread airing some dangerously unbalanced and deeply disturbing views on life experience and child care, not to mention practices on children that are ILLEGAL....both nationally and internationally.

[Deeral]

I can't be bothered going through the exercise of looking, but it did cross my mind when reading through this thread as to whether there is any correlation between TV's resident "hang 'em high" mob, and this thread's "cane 'em hard - it never did me any harm" mob.

I think you're onto something there!

[TAWP]

I can't be bothered going through the exercise of looking, but it did cross my mind when reading through this thread as to whether there is any correlation between TV's resident "hang 'em high" mob, and this thread's "cane 'em hard - it never did me any harm" mob.

I think you're onto something there!

A classic case of 'it happened to me, so you [new] guys should have to suffer [the same] too'.

[Dodobird]

so....like it or not,

it is Child abuse,

it damages rather than "improves" children,

Those who practice it either have behavioural problems of their own, or are perverts or of one kind or another

Furthermore consider this - if they deal in such a physical manner with a child who has annoyed them what happens at the other end of the scale when they want to show a child affection?????????

.....and those who "think' it "did them no harm" - think again - there have been people on this thread airing some dangerously unbalanced and deeply disturbing views on life experience and child care, not to mention practices on children that are ILLEGAL....both nationally and internationally.

--ditto--

[Thules]

-- DIitto -- also After 240 posts, this appears as one of those comparatively rare, but admirable, occasions when TV members show a clear consensus on something. In this case; Don't abuse Kids ! I wonder if we can do anything practically to further this aim while not being accused of interferring in Thailand's domestic affairs (?)

[way2muchcoffee]

so....like it or not,

it is Child abuse,

it damages rather than "improves" children,

Those who practice it either have behavioural problems of their own, or are perverts or of one kind or another

Furthermore consider this - if they deal in such a physical manner with a child who has annoyed them what happens at the other end of the scale when they want to show a child affection?????????

.....and those who "think' it "did them no harm" - think again - there have been people on this thread airing some dangerously unbalanced and deeply disturbing views on life experience and child care, not to mention practices on children that are ILLEGAL....both nationally and internationally.

Actually it is you who appears to have the behavioral problem. Your beliefs are predicated on the outright denial that humans are by their very nature violent. This violence gets stamped out by society in most people, but it is there in all of us. It simmers under the surface of political correctness - contained, constrained, repressed, ignored, rejected. It rebels at the strictures of modern society. It is pathological to deny these basic facts.

Kids understand violence as do adults. All humans do, along with the animals. Pain equals bad. Pain equals don't repeat the behavior that brought it about. You claim to know all the answers. You vilify those who do not believe as you do. And yet your answers are only found in the modern psychology and education theory unleashed on the world in the last several decades. The world isn't much better now than it was in the past, only people today deny their natural instincts to an extent unimaginable even to our most recent ancestors.

These theories are also highly self-serving in that they only apply when the overall goal is socialization and forcing people to ignore, deny, and repress their violent nature. So yes, if the goal is to produce an unnatural child in an unnatural environment (which in the end we all must do) then the conclusions of modern psychology are relevant.

No matter what society and psychology tells us, people are still humans. We harbor violent tendencies. We respond to violence and learn from it as well. This is not about a behavioral disorder in any way. It is the natural way that humans have lived for tens of thousands of years, if not hundreds of thousands.

Please understand, I am not in any way condoning the teacher's actions. Those actions are illegal. Laws are a forced agreement imposed upon all members of any society. Laws exist to protect us from the natural inclinations of other people and from our own natural inclinations. For a smooth functioning society laws are necessary. This teacher knew the societal rules and, arguably, violated them. There are consequences for such violations. But this does not mean that the teacher was in any way sick or deranged. He simply utilized the behavior modification methods he learned as a child. He is also quite likely to have witnessed the caning of students by many of his peers, due to the prevalence of corporal punishment in schools here. He probably believed he was doing the right thing.

Edited September 1, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[Thules]

way2muchcoffee, Your response was excellent and well presented. And yet I must respectfully, disagree with you.... Not, with what you directly said which, from an historical and even present day perspective, cannot be denied.

But, in respect of violence against kids, what matters is how we go from here. it's about building the future. Do we really want to continue to be as the savages of past, and inflict violence against others just accepting our instinctual urges ? We cannot deny having violent urges, but we sure as can, as a society, and as individuals seek to find more constructive ways to resolve our differences without violence, whether in the classroom or beyond.

I hope attitudes towards the acceptance of using violence against each other do change for the better, at the very least on an inter-personal level. Idealistic ? Quite possibly, but it's got to start somewhere. Please consider how, as modern societies, our attitudes have changed for the positive against slavery, apartheid, gay bashing to name just a few. We can collectively change our views about what's acceptable in our societies. When it comes to physical child abuse, irrespective of our primal instincts, I already say NO !

[way2muchcoffee]

way2muchcoffee, Your response was excellent and well presented. And yet I must respectfully, disagree with you.... Not, with what you directly said which, from an historical and even present day perspective, cannot be denied.

But, in respect of violence against kids, what matters is how we go from here. it's about building the future. Do we really want to continue to be as the savages of past, and inflict violence against others just accepting our instinctual urges ? We cannot deny having violent urges, but we sure as can, as a society, and as individuals seek to find more constructive ways to resolve our differences without violence, whether in the classroom or beyond.

I hope attitudes towards the acceptance of using violence against each other do change for the better, at the very least on an inter-personal level. Idealistic ? Quite possibly, but it's got to start somewhere. Please consider how, as modern societies, our attitudes have changed for the positive against slavery, apartheid, gay bashing to name just a few. We can collectively change our views about what's acceptable in our societies. When it comes to physical child abuse, irrespective of our primal instincts, I already say NO !

I agree with everything you've written. I am a teacher with 12 years of classroom experience. I have never hit a child and I never will. Also my wife and I became guardians for my wife's 3 1/2 year old niece about a month ago. This girl will never be hit again, at least not by us.

We have no children of our own and we hope to be able to provide the stable and nurturing environment that this girl never had. I refuse to use physical punishment with her and have convinced my wife not to as well.

I guess I just find it offensive when people are labeled as 'sick' or 'deranged' when they are acting in ways that are perfectly natural, even when those actions are no longer considered 'normal' or acceptable.

Edited September 1, 2010 by way2muchcoffee

[Loz]

bottm line as I said earlier.

Teachers at the school I teach at were lining up kids to have there heads shorn today. There were the usual teachers waving their canes about at assembly. And this is in the same town as the school in question.

I heard from a fellow teacher that the principle gave each of the 40 students 20,000bht for their trouble. The school is no longer being pursued in this matter But the police have been approached by concerned parents to take the matter further.

If its not clear, I DO NOT condone caning, I think its awful. I do however know that I chose to live in Thailand and work in Thai schools. So I accept that it is part and parcel of "Thai Culture" and who among us would have the timerity to attack such a venerable institution as that?

[Loz]

way2muchcoffee, Your response was excellent and well presented. And yet I must respectfully, disagree with you.... Not, with what you directly said which, from an historical and even present day perspective, cannot be denied.

But, in respect of violence against kids, what matters is how we go from here. it's about building the future. Do we really want to continue to be as the savages of past, and inflict violence against others just accepting our instinctual urges ? We cannot deny having violent urges, but we sure as can, as a society, and as individuals seek to find more constructive ways to resolve our differences without violence, whether in the classroom or beyond.

I hope attitudes towards the acceptance of using violence against each other do change for the better, at the very least on an inter-personal level. Idealistic ? Quite possibly, but it's got to start somewhere. Please consider how, as modern societies, our attitudes have changed for the positive against slavery, apartheid, gay bashing to name just a few. We can collectively change our views about what's acceptable in our societies. When it comes to physical child abuse, irrespective of our primal instincts, I already say NO !

I agree with everything you've written. I am a teacher with 12 years of classroom experience. I have never hit a child and I never will. Also my wife and I became guardians for my wife's 3 1/2 year old niece. This girl will never be hit again, at least not by us.

I guess I just find it offensive when people are labeled as 'sick' or 'deranged' when they are acting in ways that are perfectly natural, even when those actions are no longer considered 'normal' or acceptable.

Its just a shame there is no school you can go to, where they teach you how to point society's moral compass.