The Bangkok Airways Rant Thread

[Gatorade]

Sometimes you have to stop & think. Is it that bad that tourism is restricted? Why are more hotels, restaurants , bars opening, knowing full well the restricted air capacity to Samui.

I have seen more & more tourists arriving via alternative methods, Surat, buses etc........................................

Is a free for all airport with unrestricted tourist arrivals that good at the end of the day? Could it spell the end to Samui as we know it?

Spot on! You only have to look at developments such as the Conrad which have totally devastated the area and is a scenic disaster.

There are many more and still they keep being built.

I know that there has to be growthI but from what I see it seems that it is an exercise in unmitigated greed and the end of what was once a beautiful island is not far away. Sooner or later the very thing that visitors come for will be gone.

[carmine]

Sometimes you have to stop & think. Is it that bad that tourism is restricted? Why are more hotels, restaurants , bars opening, knowing full well the restricted air capacity to Samui.

I have seen more & more tourists arriving via alternative methods, Surat, buses etc........................................

Is a free for all airport with unrestricted tourist arrivals that good at the end of the day? Could it spell the end to Samui as we know it?

Spot on! You only have to look at developments such as the Conrad which have totally devastated the area and is a scenic disaster.

There are many more and still they keep being built.

I know that there has to be growthI but from what I see it seems that it is an exercise in unmitigated greed and the end of what was once a beautiful island is not far away. Sooner or later the very thing that visitors come for will be gone.

So Bangkok Airways are the good guys! Thanks for letting me know, i thought they were nothing more than profiteering vultures feeding their unrivalled greed off the residents and tourists of samui

[Rooo]

Sometimes you have to stop & think. Is it that bad that tourism is restricted? Why are more hotels, restaurants , bars opening, knowing full well the restricted air capacity to Samui.

I have seen more & more tourists arriving via alternative methods, Surat, buses etc........................................

Is a free for all airport with unrestricted tourist arrivals that good at the end of the day? Could it spell the end to Samui as we know it?

Spot on! You only have to look at developments such as the Conrad which have totally devastated the area and is a scenic disaster.

There are many more and still they keep being built.

I know that there has to be growthI but from what I see it seems that it is an exercise in unmitigated greed and the end of what was once a beautiful island is not far away. Sooner or later the very thing that visitors come for will be gone.

So Bangkok Airways are the good guys! Thanks for letting me know, i thought they were nothing more than profiteering vultures feeding their unrivalled greed off the residents and tourists of samui

No, don't twist words around.Just gave you another scenario.

But if you really want to look at it, perhaps it doesn't suit because it doesn't fulfil the needs of greedy people trying to exploit the island. Businesses that will drained it dry then move on.

Not saying prices are justified, but nor are the vultures that keep on opening businesses here knowing full well the limitations , then crying bloody murder.

Many ways to get to the island, from economy standard eg. Surat, Nakon, ferry, bus etc....to quick way.

I have the options, if I want speedy comfortable then I will pay.If I want to save, I have the other options available.

[churchill]

'the vultures that keep on opening businesses here knowing full well the limitations , then crying bloody murder.'

Who are the vultures ? .. seems a bit harsh ..everyone wants to make a living .. It is up to the locals how Samui develops and I would think they would welcome more jobs and money coming into the economy ....I think they are making efforts to guide the Island in the right direction .. but local politics , management is not easy ....mistakes will be made but there seem to be some positive signs .

What other tourist Islands in the world compare with Samui ? and how have they developed .. and solved problems

[insertmembernamehere]

Is a free for all airport with unrestricted tourist arrivals that good at the end of the day? Could it spell the end to Samui as we know it?

I think the "end of Samui as we know it" will happen in time, regardless. The Samui that many of us knew 10 years ago is already changed beyond recollection.

But I think you also have to remember that Samui is a holiday island, full stop. There are no factories here or other meaningful industries. Tourism IS Samui, for better or worse.

I also wonder about the situation where I, and others, have posted that from our vantage point it looks like Samui is quiet, when then other posters who have some vested or inside interest in a hotel or resort say they are near capacity. A straw poll, of sorts, does not always reveal the full extent of the situation, it appears.

Moreover, every time I fly Bangkok Airways, and I'd say I was a frequent flier, the plane is completely full.

Don't get me wrong, I think Bangkok Airways is profiteering, which is wrong, but the plight of Samui rests with its poor image, fostered by inept or unsafe infrastructure, corrupt and menacing taxi drivers along with some bike/jetski outlets and the crass commercialization of the few natural "wonders" the island has, such as the big waterfall, now a billboard festering tourist trap with fake swimming holes and a water slide.

The completion of the new drainage and blacktop ring road, whenever that is fully completed, will give the island a slight shot in the arm, but it will take a more concerted and educated effort to "re-brand" Samui in line with it's bigger brother, Phuket.

Tourism, hotel management and simply business management in general are university disciplines. This is not to say the coconut farmer can't strike it rich by building a hotel, but then again although I can cut out your heart, it doesn't make me a surgeon.

Our tourism sector, both public and governmental, needs to be better grounded in historical fundamentals and principles on how best to coordinate and intelligently develop the resources and manpower (and talent) at hand.

I think people see Phuket as better developed, safer, easier to navigate, better organized and more cost effective. Whether or not this is true compared to Samui is, to a large degree, irrelevant if people perceive it to be so.

[Rooo]

'the vultures that keep on opening businesses here knowing full well the limitations , then crying bloody murder.'

Who are the vultures ? .. seems a bit harsh ..everyone wants to make a living .. It is up to the locals how Samui develops and I would think they would welcome more jobs and money coming into the economy ....I think they are making efforts to guide the Island in the right direction .. but local politics , management is not easy ....mistakes will be made but there seem to be some positive signs .

What other tourist Islands in the world compare with Samui ? and how have they developed .. and solved problems

Not harsh at all. Not targeting locals either, but we are all human beings & some of the locals are to blame as much as all the new businesses trying to get a slice.

You can also cast you mind back, I can't recall exact date, but BKK air were putting up their fares from memory by 200 odd Baht, They had a demonstration & they were going to blockade the airport.

BKK air backed down , but they made it very clear that they will put up the price 7 months later, November 2005 or 2006 which they did & many times after with no objection from the local businesses..

Again no one is answering the question. Why open a new business, say a large hotel knowing very well , the cost of flights ( that could be irrelevant if packaged ). Also the number of flights & passenger capacity.

Wouldn't you first start complaining to the local planning authorities? Infrastructure can't cope, hardly any adequate power supply, the list goes on & the problem compounds.

[Samui Coconut]

'the vultures that keep on opening businesses here knowing full well the limitations , then crying bloody murder.'

Who are the vultures ? .. seems a bit harsh ..everyone wants to make a living .. It is up to the locals how Samui develops and I would think they would welcome more jobs and money coming into the economy ....I think they are making efforts to guide the Island in the right direction .. but local politics , management is not easy ....mistakes will be made but there seem to be some positive signs .

What other tourist Islands in the world compare with Samui ? and how have they developed .. and solved problems

Not harsh at all. Not targeting locals either, but we are all human beings & some of the locals are to blame as much as all the new businesses trying to get a slice.

You can also cast you mind back, I can't recall exact date, but BKK air were putting up their fares from memory by 200 odd Baht, They had a demonstration & they were going to blockade the airport.

BKK air backed down , but they made it very clear that they will put up the price 7 months later, November 2005 or 2006 which they did & many times after with no objection from the local businesses..

Again no one is answering the question. Why open a new business, say a large hotel knowing very well , the cost of flights ( that could be irrelevant if packaged ). Also the number of flights & passenger capacity.

Wouldn't you first start complaining to the local planning authorities? Infrastructure can't cope, hardly any adequate power supply, the list goes on & the problem compounds.

As one might have noticed, the airport is presently being extended (the crashed plane is now parked at the Chaweng end of the runway on the new "(plane) parking lot"), may be the extension takes place to allow other airlines to use the airport, otherwise what would be the reason to extend, as present facilities are sufficient in serving whatever comes in?

[ydraw]

the plight of Samui rests with its poor image, fostered by inept or unsafe infrastructure, corrupt and menacing taxi drivers along with some bike/jetski outlets and the crass commercialization of the few natural "wonders" the island has

You really are overcomplicating things. The reason tourism on Samui is suffering is because Phuket is far easier and cheaper to get to. People coming to Thailand mostly don't care which island they go to, unless they are coming to visit friends. Phuket lands direct international flights from low-cost carriers and Samui does not. That's really all there is to it.

It's not like Phuket's reputation with regards to taxis, jetskis or overdevelopment is any better than Samui's. If anything, it's worse. But it's cheaper to fly there, and you don't have to change planes. Those are the 2 biggest concerns for most short-term holidaymakers.

The Airport is the #1 problem faced by Samui specifically. All the other problems (terrible roads, pushy cartels, corruption etc) happen all over Thailand.

And it's not all Bangkok Airways' fault either. In fact, it's not even mostly their fault. It's mostly the fault of the Thai government for putting artificial restrictions on the number of flights, not building a suitable airport themselves, and not doing more to utilise the airport they already have in Surat Thani.

Edited September 13, 2012 by ydraw

[Birdman]

there are direct flghts, but many Phuket tourists have to change the airplane in BKK as well. And tourists do care about the island they choose for sure. There are many different, very basic facts why Phuket has more tourists than Samui. Phuket is not cheaper than Samui, if you add up cost of the package and the costs at the destination. Tourism on Samui does not suffer, there are less Central Europeans here, so in all Thailand, but much more Indians and other Asians, as well as much more Russians...

[ydraw]

Tourism arrivals in Samui were down 20% last year, which was down 20% from the year before. At the same time, Phuket's tourism numbers have been growing by a similar number each year. So yes, tourism does suffer here.

[Samui Coconut]

Tourism arrivals in Samui were down 20% last year, which was down 20% from the year before. At the same time, Phuket's tourism numbers have been growing by a similar number each year. So yes, tourism does suffer here.

Can you back these figures up ?

[Tropicalevo]

the plight of Samui rests with its poor image, fostered by inept or unsafe infrastructure, corrupt and menacing taxi drivers along with some bike/jetski outlets and the crass commercialization of the few natural "wonders" the island has

You really are overcomplicating things. The reason tourism on Samui is suffering is because Phuket is far easier and cheaper to get to. People coming to Thailand mostly don't care which island they go to, unless they are coming to visit friends. Phuket lands direct international flights from low-cost carriers and Samui does not. That's really all there is to it.

It's not like Phuket's reputation with regards to taxis, jetskis or overdevelopment is any better than Samui's. If anything, it's worse. But it's cheaper to fly there, and you don't have to change planes. Those are the 2 biggest concerns for most short-term holidaymakers.

The Airport is the #1 problem faced by Samui specifically. All the other problems (terrible roads, pushy cartels, corruption etc) happen all over Thailand.

And it's not all Bangkok Airways' fault either. In fact, it's not even mostly their fault. It's mostly the fault of the Thai government for putting artificial restrictions on the number of flights, not building a suitable airport themselves, and not doing more to utilise the airport they already have in Surat Thani.

I believe that your comments are correct - with the exception of the last paragraph.

I believe that it is totally Bandit Airways fault. BA do not use every slot every day. They could easily allow other airlines - BUT then they would have competition and they would not get away with their exorbitant prices. Unless they overcharged for landing fees - which is what they did with Thai Airways. (Thus maybe making the route unprofitable?)

The government actually allowed BA to have two more slots to encourage other airlines.

BA only allowed Thai to land here because a very important prince wanted to practice take-offs and landings for his commercial pilot's licence - and used Samui as his practice airport. BA had previously said that Thai would never land at Samui.

The restrictions set by law are not artificial - it is mostly for safety. Samui Airport does not have all of the facilities that a government airport has. Even the fire service is suspect. We call them out to fight bush fires near us. What happens if there is an emergency at the same time? I am sure that people more qualified than me can tell us what else is missing (The automatic beacon thingy for landings??? - please forgive the lack of pilot speak)

[Rooo]

They replaced most of the fleet with larger aircraft.Does not that mean more capacity? The ATR"s 70 seaters, now Air buses.

[Birdman]

For the first half of 2012, airport arrivals surged 16% vs. H1 2011 with a five-year compound annual growth rate of 5%.

http://www.c9hotelworks.com/downloads/samui-2012-hotel-market-update-2012-08.pdff o

For the first half of 2012, airport

arrivals surged 16% vs. H1 2011 with a

five-year compound annual growth

rate of 5%.

f 2012, airport

arrivals surged 16% vs. H1 2011 with a

five-year compound annual growth

rate of 5%.

[insertmembernamehere]

For the first half of 2012, airport arrivals surged 16% vs. H1 2011 with a five-year compound annual growth rate of 5%.

http://www.c9hotelworks.com/downloads/samui-2012-hotel-market-update-2012-08.pdf

The arrivals statistics come from the Department of Civil Aviation and C9 Hotelworks Market Research.

The preface to the paper linked above is worth posting:

“Samui’s hotel sector has returned to solid ground after a prolonged upward climb over the past three years. For the first half of 2012, airport arrivals surged 16% vs. H1 2011 with a five-year compound annual growth rate of 5%. This was partly driven by an improvement in the island's connectivity to key regional hubs of Singapore, Malaysia and Hong Kong with a 23% growth of direct overseas flights in H1 2012 compared to the same period last year.

Rising visitor arrivals generally edged up hotel performance across the industry. The upscale segment was the best performing sector achieving 73% occupancy, followed by midscale and luxury hotels at 69% and 59% respectively. A lack of low-cost carriers to the island pressured budget and economy hotels to muted performance with just 52%. Looking forward the restrained air traffic may be a blessing in disguise to the island as restricting mass tourism growth could enhance its natural appeal. While the competitive markets of Phuket and Bali are overrun with skyrocketing numbers, Samui’s positioning is gradually shifting upward as a niche resort destination.”

Bill Barnett, Managing Director, C9 Hotelworks

2012 Mid-year:

* First half of 2012 arrivals at Samui Airport recorded 455,778 passengers with 92% coming from domestic flights.

* Market-wide occupancy achieved a historical high since 2008, with 67% for the first half of 2012 vs. 59% in H1 2011.

* Top geographic sources of business were U.K., Germany, Thailand, Australia and the rising Eastern European segment.

-- So much for all the doom and gloom and phony arrival numbers...

[ydraw]

Insert, the arrival numbers I was talking about were for 2010 and 2011, obviously partly the effects of the GFC.

Samui airport can accommodate a maximum of 36 flights per day. And since the runway isn't long enough to land big planes, this means you're only getting a maximum of about 4000 arrivals per day at Samui airport.

[insertmembernamehere]

Then I am not sure what the, " For the first half of 2012, airport arrivals surged 16% vs. H1 2011 with a five-year compound annual growth rate of 5%" means, other than the net effect is an increase over that time.

Well, there are, in the high season, 22 direct flights from Bangkok and 7 indirect flights from other destinations. That's 29, which is nearing the allowed 36, or 80 percent. I have the feeling, and this is just a hunch, that if Bangkok Airways felt that they could make more by flying all 36 slots, they'd do that. I am wondering if there are other constraints at work here.

On a side note, I do not have a business here and actually enjoy the low season. I just wonder what it would be like to live here year 'round if every month was as crowded as December and January. If I had a business, I'd be over the moon, but as a resident I think I might feel differently. If you are a parachute resident -- coming to stay three months or so of the year then going back to your actual home -- then it might be sufferable. But if you live here virtually every day of the year, the island would take on a different feel; one that I think would eventually change my thinking about the place.

Another tidbit from the above link is that it appears now that there should be well over 15,000 rooms available on Samui. That's an interesting fact to pull out over beers....

[oldsailor35]

Tourism arrivals in Samui were down 20% last year, which was down 20% from the year before. At the same time, Phuket's tourism numbers have been growing by a similar number each year. So yes, tourism does suffer here.

Its got to be obvious ! I am at present back in Queensland, looking at the offers of top travel agents "Flight Centre" i see that i can get a cheap all in package direct to Phuket, however i have to fly to Bangkok or Kuala Lumpur and change flights to get into Samui, this makes it quite a bit more expensive. So they just take the cheapest,easyiest no problem package to an island resort in Thailand. No guessing which island this is !

[PoorSucker]

Samui airport can accommodate a maximum of 36 flights per day. And since the runway isn't long enough to land big planes, this means you're only getting a maximum of about 4000 arrivals per day at Samui airport.

With 36 Airbus 320 the number would be 5832.

[John 1]

Tourism arrivals in Samui were down 20% last year, which was down 20% from the year before. At the same time, Phuket's tourism numbers have been growing by a similar number each year. So yes, tourism does suffer here.

Its got to be obvious ! I am at present back in Queensland, looking at the offers of top travel agents "Flight Centre" i see that i can get a cheap all in package direct to Phuket, however i have to fly to Bangkok or Kuala Lumpur and change flights to get into Samui, this makes it quite a bit more expensive. So they just take the cheapest,easyiest no problem package to an island resort in Thailand. No guessing which island this is !

Why when you have near on the best beaches in the world and not crowed would you come to Samui.

[insertmembernamehere]

No Chang in Queensland?

[Rooo]

Samui airport can accommodate a maximum of 36 flights per day. And since the runway isn't long enough to land big planes, this means you're only getting a maximum of about 4000 arrivals per day at Samui airport.

With 36 Airbus 320 the number would be 5832.

Looking at their fleet , even at 75% capacity it's a very large number.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bangkok_Airways

[Rooo]

Totals:

Aircraft passengers

18 = 1448 ( total capacity )

1448 :18 =80,4 ( average capacity )

80,4 X 36 (m0vements) = 2895 daily passenger capacity

2895 x 365 =1,0570,040 yearly average capacity.

That is an average, I suppose how they deploy their aircrafts.

[ydraw]

Why when you have near on the best beaches in the world and not crowed would you come to Samui.

Australia has a winter, so a lot of people want to get somewhere warm. It's also a hideously expensive place to go for a holiday. No accommodation under $120 a night anywhere in the country nowadays.

[Rooo]

For LaoPo;

http://investing.businessweek.com/research/stocks/private/snapshot.asp?privcapId=8378033

[TheOggMonster]

If all the Hotels on the Island where 100% full could the Transport network to Samui handle the demand?

Over the years we've seen a massive increase in the number of Hotels, Shops, Restaurants, and Bars. Even in the High season many places around the Island are half full. Is this because it's too expensive to flight directly to Samui or is Bangkok airways maxed out?

[No1Farang]

The airport is obviously restricted to 36 flights per day for environmental reasons. If these restrictions were removed it could handle many more flights, easily. Maybe we will see these artificial restrictions removed one day.

Normally, in airport speak, a flight is one landing or one take off but not both. If samui is restricted to 36 flights that's only 18 arrivals so the annual passenger numbers are less than some posters are suggesting .

[LaoPo]

The airport is obviously restricted to 36 flights per day for environmental reasons. If these restrictions were removed it could handle many more flights, easily. Maybe we will see these artificial restrictions removed one day.

Normally, in airport speak, a flight is one landing or one take off but not both. If samui is restricted to 36 flights that's only 18 arrivals so the annual passenger numbers are less than some posters are suggesting .

Interesting to learn.

We could see from the BKK Airways daily schedule, next to the schedule from Thai Airways/Smile, how many flights are ARRIVING on Samui; that would give the total number, wouldn't it?

[Rooo]

The airport is obviously restricted to 36 flights per day for environmental reasons. If these restrictions were removed it could handle many more flights, easily. Maybe we will see these artificial restrictions removed one day.

Normally, in airport speak, a flight is one landing or one take off but not both. If samui is restricted to 36 flights that's only 18 arrivals so the annual passenger numbers are less than some posters are suggesting .

Interesting to learn.

We could see from the BKK Airways daily schedule, next to the schedule from Thai Airways/Smile, how many flights are ARRIVING on Samui; that would give the total number, wouldn't it?

I counted departures to BKK alone, the last 2 via HKT 20, arrivalsBKK to USM 27.

Haven't included any other direct or International destinations.

Also have to rember that they just applied for an increase in flight numbers.

[notmyself]

If all the Hotels on the Island where 100% full could the Transport network to Samui handle the demand?

Over the years we've seen a massive increase in the number of Hotels, Shops, Restaurants, and Bars. Even in the High season many places around the Island are half full. Is this because it's too expensive to flight directly to Samui or is Bangkok airways maxed out?

It's an oversupply of accommodation, eateries, bars and massage parlors rather than an undersupply of flights. Extreme 'build it and they will come' mentality. There is more to it but it's off topic for this thread.