Best Cheapest Way To Extend Retirement Visa

[Lite Beer]

Yes. Pretty routine and easy.

[jesimps]

I'm going down there tomorrow so I'll let you all know how I get on. I'll apply for 1 year and see what they say.

[moe666]

some of these people reluntance to keep the 800,000baht in a bank at present is a bit short sighted. With the strenght of the Thai baht and weakness of the dollar there is money to be made by the difference in exchange rate in a few months.

[jazzbo]

Routine, easy, or not ... A good sense of humor is always involved whether persons herein realize it or otherwise... And in all Immigration situations Murphy's Law prevails.

[JimGant]

Based on that, you could honestly swear to your embassy that you have retirement "income" in the equivalent amount of 65K baht per month for one year.

Actually -- at least regarding the US -- you're not affirming anything about "income." As such, you're neatly sidesteping all the variables that might be involved re income, like 'net, gross, earned, unearned.' Instead, you affirm that you "receive in amount of xxxUS$ every month from the US government or other sources." Other sources could be from drawing down a savings account; drawing down a loan from a relative; etc. So, essentially, a monthly cash flow is what you're 'affirming.' Obviously, the Thais would like for this cash flow to be net positive, and available in its entirety for use in Thailand. But, since there are no asterisks on the affirmation statement, the fact that this monthly cash flow all goes to your former wife, is not, as far as I can see, ethically compromising. (And, even if you were affirming "income," for those countries so requiring, this has been shown to be "gross" income -- so here too, cash available for spending in Thailand may be well below what Immigration has in mind.)

The fly in the ointment here is the affirmation of "receiving monthly." But, as has been discussed, I would think, from an ethical standpoint, that "available to be received" monthly is acceptable.

Now, the fact that this "received" or "available to be received" is finite, as in drawing down the principal in a savings account, might possibly raise an eyebrow. But, hey, nothing's said about 'how many months' will this cash flow be available. Probably at least 12 months is the unsaid understanding -- something like the lifetime of a Greek pension.

The income affidavit from your embassy is really only step 1. Step two is providing any corroborative documents as to your claim of 65K and the sufficiency of that is totally at the IMM officer's discretion.

This is where it could get interesting. If you have no statements, such as pension or income tax, to show 'activity' of your cash flow, what to do? Well, if you're drawing down a savings account, but only a fraction of the 65k/mo is crossing the pond to Thailand, Immigration won't be impressed. However, with two bank accounts, you could move the equivalent of 65k baht per month from acct A to acct B. If you've enough to do this for 12 months, great (then reverse the movement in year two). But, I suspect a 2 or 3 month movement would be enough for Immigration.

Anyway, after saying all that, there are 3 things I'm glad of:

1. Immigration doesn't require that you actually move 65k/month into Thailand.

2. If they ever check my cash flow, my Air Force retirement statement will suffice.

3. Immigration, to date, rarely checks corroborating statements.

[Lancelot]

I have existing retirement visa one year and reentry permit. I paid attorney before 1000$ plus 10,000baht under table money. My bankbook this year in thailand has wellover 800,000 baht in transfers. How can I renew my self? where do I go and what do I need to do???? thanks

To the OP, dunno what nationality you are, or where you reside. But paying an attorney 10,000 baht "under the table money" for a retirement visa or extension based on retirement sounds crazy... And did you mean $1,000 U.S. dollars??? If so, that's even crazier...

As long as you're at least age 50, qualifying for a retirement visa outside Thailand, or a extension of stay based on retirement inside Thailand, is pretty danged simple, as long as you read and learn from the posts here in ThaiVisa on the subject.

If you have an existing retirement visa that's still valid, and you're inside Thailand, you can apply for an annual extension of stay based on retirement at the local immigration office closest to wherever you're staying in Thailand.

What in the world an attorney's going to bring to the table in that situation I can only wonder...

So true. My friend paid B15,000 to some fixer for a retirement visa. My buddy is American and over 50; in other words, there was no reason for him not to do the application himself. I offered to help him -no charge- but he just kept rambling on about how difficult the visa process was. After receiving his retirement visa, he was elated and thought the fixer had worked miracles on his behalf...

No wonder Thais look down on foreigners

[jazzbo]

Kuhn J.: I'm going down there (Monday) so I'll let you all know how I get on. I'll apply for 1 year and see what they say. ... And?

[jfchandler]

Upon arrival at Immigration, he was immediately arrested, blacklisted and then deported -- after having mentioned he was just following the advice he'd received on ThaiVisa...

[Parvis]

As Kuhn L. mentions above:

When you apply for your extension of stay with the embassy's income affidavit, the immigration officer has the right to ask you for supporting evidence of the income stated in the affidavit. Reports that they do this have been very few.

The giveaway?: BODY LANGUAGE.

I just came back from Immigrations at Chang Wattana today for my 1 year Retirement Visa Extension and had the following experience:

1) I get my Visa on the basis of having an excess of 65 000 baht/per month retirement income.

2) The Income is declared at the US Embassy with no proof required.

3) This is my 3rd year on this basis and I have never had a request to show supporting verification of my income by Thai Immigrations.

4) This time the Immigration official ask me to sign a form stating that I have been notified that my next years retirement extention will require an 800 000 baht deposit in a Thai Bank. No other options were given on this form.

Edited September 29, 2010 by Parvis

[techno]

Can all clarify if the 800,000 has to be in a thai bank or can much larger sum in a USA 500,000usd bank/broker. I prefer rather than just let 800,000 sit uninvested in a thai bank. Bob

If you are on a pension and the income is around 65000 baht per monh get it certifided by the US Embassy then you do not have to worry about the cash in a Thai bank account but it helps depending on where you apply. Lots of ex-pats do it that way. You will have to pay the US Embassy a fee for certification. Good luck and sorry you spent a lot of money on a lawyer before but read the forum as its easy to do yourself and save a lot of money

[MaiThaiMai]

Good answer Pib... The OP should be paying YOU for the time it took you to draft the guidance for him... as he seems to have money to spread around...

the combo method is used, no seasoning (deposit ahead of your application time) is required.

I just found out not one hour ago this "no seasoning (deposit ahead of your application time)" simply IS NOT ENTIRELY TRUE, not for everybody anyway...so don't count on it 100% or you will be sorely disappointed.

I have a 90-day one-entry tourist visa and *ALL* paperwork nicely in order (as laid out in THEIR OWN INFO SHEET) and easy to follow anticipating the 60-day seasoning rule for first time applicants rule. I was NOT offered to upgrade my visa even tho paperwork they handed me said I may need to.

I was pleasant even jokingly asking agent after he see I have more than Bt800,000 asking if "he give me good exchange rate?" already knowing I was well over 800,000, I was clean shaven and cleanly dressed. I was told to come back Dec 1 since my visa expires on Xmas (by a supervisor also), even if I came back on Dec 1 my bank account wouldn't be seaoned until Dec 5 so I guess it's just Immi Thai f**king with farang? ...maybe they just didn't like my young-ish nice looking not-gray face and head? I didn't know but ...

Since their requirement sheet handed to me at the front door telling me what I needed for retirement extension didn't include any verbiage about "seasoning" under the "OR©" clause of requirements I had no arguments since ThaiVisa is no any REAL authority and only a base for POSSIBLE useful information therefore all I could do was save face thank nice (in Thai) and leave.

I will go back Dec 7 because by the I will have 60 days "seasoned" Thai bank money which was my original plan...

Moral of the story don't believe everything you read and have a plan B at all times (plan C & D while in in Thailand wouldn't hurt either)...

[lopburi3]

This does not seem to have anything to do about seasoning of money but likely about normal procedure of only accepting applications during the last 30 days of a permitted to stay.

[jazzbo]

Kuhn JS was informed getting a 1-year extension with 8 months passport validity was 'routine and easy' and that he would let us know how's tricks ... and we have never heard from him again.

[jfchandler]

MTM....nowhere in your post do you say, or indicate the Thai immigration folks said, that the REASON you were turned away was because of your finances...

Rather, as Lop mentions above, the normal time for seeking a retirement extension is the final month prior to one's permission to stay date. Given that you have a Christmas time date, Immigration really doesn't want to hear from you until the end of November at the earliest...

Also, going from a tourist visa to a retirement extension is bit more complicated than the normal extension application....

The advice about seasoning of bank deposits given above re retirement extensions was correct. Seasoning required when bank deposits alone are one's means of qualifying. Seasoning not required for income documented by consular letter or for the combination method, part income and part bank deposits.

I just found out not one hour ago this "no seasoning (deposit ahead of your application time)" simply IS NOT ENTIRELY TRUE, not for everybody anyway...so don't count on it 100% or you will be sorely disappointed.

[JimGant]

I was NOT offered to upgrade my visa even tho paperwork they handed me said I may need to.

If you're here on a tourist visa, you'll definitely need to convert to a Non Imm visa in order to process for a retirement extension. Why they didn't process the conversion -- which doesn't require seasoning of 800k -- and instead said come back Dec 1st is perplexing....

[Maestro]

...I had no arguments since ThaiVisa is no any REAL authority and only a base for POSSIBLE useful information...

But ThaiVisa quotes to you from an English translation of what is the real authority, ie the original Thai text of Royal Thai Police Order No. 777/2551 about the extension requirements. If you want the "REAL authority", please read that Thai document. Happy reading! It is paragraph ๒.๒๒ you want for the retirement extension.

[Parvis]

The advice about seasoning of bank deposits given above re retirement extensions was correct. Seasoning required when bank deposits alone are one's means of qualifying. Seasoning not required for income documented by consular letter or for the combination method, part income and part bank deposits.

I just found out not one hour ago this "no seasoning (deposit ahead of your application time)" simply IS NOT ENTIRELY TRUE, not for everybody anyway...so don't count on it 100% or you will be sorely disappointed.

It seems obvious that Immigration Officials often make their own rules - or bend them.

Case in point:

I recently applied for my 1 year retirement extension (my 3rd so far) based on my income documented by a consular letter. I received my 1 year extension without problem HOWEVER I was asked to sign a statement advising me that for next years (Sept 2011) extension I will need 800 000 baht in a Thai account - seasoned.

Any suggestions what I should do next year ? (aside from depositing 800 000).

Edited October 10, 2010 by Parvis

[lopburi3]

Your report is noted with interest but so far it is the only report of this happening and as there is no copy of the document available it is difficult to know if it is a planned change in requirements or a bad translation or something that was expected but dropped. If anyone has signed such a document this month and can provide details it would be most appreciated.

For now can only advise keeping eyes open for a response.

[mickba]

My own experience, with costs :-

I hit Immigration at Jomtien at about 2pm on Monday, after they'd been closed the previous Friday.

It had to be the worst time to pick I thought and I almost didn't bother going.

Sure enough, as I parked the bike I could see the place was heaving fit to burst.

I thought I might as well take a number and clear off, on the assumption that they wouldn't get to me and it would put me up the queue next morning (done it before).

I squeezed my way in the doors and there was barely even standing room.

I got as far as the counter with the forms on and asked a surly girly for a ticket for Counter 6.

She started waving at my folder and wanted to check I'd already filled the form and got my copies done.

I wasn't even planning to stay so I said "No no, done already, everything correct".

Somehow I must have been convincing for a change as she just gave me a dirty look, stabbed the dispenser and thrust a ticket in my outstretched hand.

I took one step away from the counter, looked at my ticket, looked at the display sign and looked back at surly girl in disbelief.

"Correct?" I asked.

"Counter 6 (stupid falang - unsaid)" she replied.

Stone me, I was next!

As I looked across to Counter 6 a farang stood up and the sign changed to my number.

I could feel people's eyes burning into me as I pushed my way through the sweaty crowds. I thought it better not to laugh out loud, but maybe some could hear me anyway.

I sat down and started unloading my folder on the desk and the very efficient Officer was stampity stamping and red ringing everything as though we were in a race.

Just as I'd intended, every copy of everything was exactly correct and I'd stapled them together by category i.e. Passport Copies, Bank Letter and Statement/Book Copies and Consulate Confirmation of Pension Letter plus Pension Statement. We worked like a well drilled team until he held out his hand and suddenly I couldn't think <deleted> else he wanted. For the first time, he actually had to speak to me, "1900 baht!". <deleted> I'd forgotten to put the 2k down but it was in my shirt top pocket and I had it in front of him before he'd finished saying it.

My Passport and papers were already being walked to the lady behind as I stood up and by the time I sat down again she was already tearing through them.

Done in a trice and my little purple plastic card was in my hand and I was dismissed within a total of 5 minutes from entering the building. I couldn't believe it and stood outside stupidly smiling to myself.

I had to return the following afternoon, when I could pick up my Passport with it's nice bright new stamp.

That afternoon was much quieter down there, but anyway it was only a matter of walking straight through to the lady at the back and she saw me coming and had my Passport in one hand as she held out the other for my purple ticket.

Easy peasy or what?

OK so this was my third time, so I ought to have got it right, but it was still a great relief to find I had.

It's well worth the effort of getting everything prepared properly before you walk in the door so that there aren't pieces of paper flying about and stressful dashes to the photocopy shop for forgotten items. There's no Q that if everything is done correctly these people can whistle through it.

I'd picked up the Extension of Stay Form the previous week and completed it in peace and quiet at home.

The Honourary Consulate was open on Friday morning so I'd dropped my Pension Statement off with Howard Miller (Super Star) for collection on Monday.

I was at Kasikorn when it opened at 11am Monday to get my Bank Letter. I needed this to go with my Pension as the exchange rate has taken that below the minimum. The required balance had been in there over 3 months as required.

Perhaps just as important as all that was that I applied 2 weeks before my existing Extension of Stay expired, so that if anything had gone wrong, there wasn't any great stress about it. It's still a nice relief to have it done though and the 12 months is added at the end of the current one so you don't lose anything. I think you can apply up to 3 months in advance.

Cost:-

12 Month Extension of Stay - 1900

Consulate Letter re UK pension - 2408

Bank Letter from Kasikorn - 100

Total Cost - 4408 baht

Or you can pay an Agent errrrr How Much?

On top of that you should consider a Multi Re-Entry Permit for 3800 if you plan to go in and out a lot.

The Single Re-Entry was reduced from 1900 to 1000 so that's confused me as I'm not sure I'll go out more than 4 times.

If you do go out and forget the Re-Entry your Extension of Stay and the Visa it's based on are history and you then have to start from scratch.

All in all I was impressed with Pattaya Immigration - and also with myself.

We both got it right first time - this time.

0

Edited October 10, 2010 by mickba

[Toshy]

Application fee 1,900 Baht.

Multi Re Entry Permit 3,800 Baht.

(1) The alien has obtained a temporary visa (NON-IM);

(2) The applicant is 50 years of age or over;

(3) Proof of income of not less than Baht 65,000 per month; or

(4) Account deposit with a bank in Thailand of not less than

800,000 Baht as shown in the bank account for the past 3 months at the filing date of the application. For the first year, the applicant should have that amount in his bank account for not less than 60 days or

(5) Annual income plus bank account deposit totaling not less

than Baht 800,000 as of the filing date of application

Apply at Immigration within the final 30 days of your permission to stay.

Take passport. Letter from your bank if using the 800,000 method. Updated bank book showing the same balance.

Proof of address.

From Interested reader about to do the same.

You dont mention in your list. Police report/Medical certificate.

Are these required ?

Any advice welcome. Thanks

[Lite Beer]

From Interested reader about to do the same.

You dont mention in your list. Police report/Medical certificate.

Are these required ?

Any advice welcome. Thanks

These are not required.

[Parvis]

Your report is noted with interest but so far it is the only report of this happening and as there is no copy of the document available it is difficult to know if it is a planned change in requirements or a bad translation or something that was expected but dropped. If anyone has signed such a document this month and can provide details it would be most appreciated.

For now can only advise keeping eyes open for a response.

The actual "document" I signed of the advise of the need to deposit 800 000 in my account for my next extension - appeared to be "a copy of a copy of a copy" - in other words - not printed - poorly copied - but in good English. It was without any official letterhead on top. I did not receive a copy of it myself.

I also question the validity of this "document". My income "verification" is ofcourse just a simple statement signed by me and verified by the US Consulate. I intentionally only declared an income large enough to satify the Thei Immigration requirement.

For next time I had intended to just supply more income verification - in case asked for.

I would be very interested in comments and other people experience - advise etc..

Edited October 10, 2010 by Parvis

[TechnikaIII]

It seems like there is no such thing as "retirement" for foreigners in Thailand. One takes on a new occupation of forever filling in forms and handing over cash, or atleast being concerned about it. It is a concern that never sleeps, even if out of concious thought. It contributes to that phenomenon we know as stress. One's right to stay will be always at the mercy of the current regime, and under threat if if changes. Thailand can never be truly thought of as 'home'.

Direct fanancial support of inlaws.

I would like to propose a system whereby all the money we foreign men hand over to support the extended families of our female partners be taken into consideration when paying these never ending extension fees. If instead of cash in hand, if this were deposited in the family's bank account and thereby documented, it could be shown that we are actually providing the land with social security. Whereas the visa money we hand over the counter, as well as under, does not.

I know this is a political discussion, and a deviation from the original question. Perhaps it is worth a new 'topic discussion'.

[Mrjustice]

QUESTION: If you are in Thailand on a 60-day Tourist Visa, can you apply for the Retirement Visa from within Thailand,

if you meet all of the other requirements (over 50, 800,000 in Bank,?)

[Mrjustice]

I was NOT offered to upgrade my visa even tho paperwork they handed me said I may need to.

If you're here on a tourist visa, you'll definitely need to convert to a Non Imm visa in order to process for a retirement extension. Why they didn't process the conversion -- which doesn't require seasoning of 800k -- and instead said come back Dec 1st is perplexing....

Jim, do you know if this can be done from within Thailand? That is, if you are here on a 60-day Tourist Visa, can you convert to the Non-Imm;

and, then apply for Retirement Visa? If yes, what additional docs. required (Medical Letter? -- Could I go to Doctor at Chang Ram Hospital and get letter?

Police Letter? Would this have to be from home, or could I ask Chiang Mail Police?).

[lopburi3]

If you have more than about 15 days remaining on your tourist visa entry apply for a change costing 2,000 baht and then extend costing 1,900 baht. Believe Chiang Mai is one of the places that will do both in the case of Retirement. No police report required but they might ask for a simple medical form on first application (which would only cost a few hundred baht at hospital and take only a few minutes).

[rbrick49]

hey you guys are all forgetting two things here

proof of income for pension must be stamped by his emmbassy in Thailand

medical report from Thai Doctor saying he is good to stay here

[lopburi3]

No we did not forget. That was not his question. He clearly said he was using bank money and was advised he might be asked for medical although it is not part of the extension of stay requirements anymore.

[boatguy]

2. If using a combination of Income and Savings the ban deposit does not have to seasoned for 2 to 3 months.

The rule says.

(5) Annual income plus bank account deposit totaling not less

than Baht 800,000 as of the filing date of application

You may get the odd Immigration Office that sees it differently but usually 2 to 3 months is not required.

So let me ask again for confirmation, this statement is the truth ??

[boatguy]

1. You could have obtained a multi entry non immigrant O-A visa in the US with less paperwork than you seem to have used and have not required to show any money in Thailand for 2 years. Cost would have been about 5,000 baht plus medical form and local police report.

2. You could have obtained a single entry non immigrant O visa in most countries by showing you were over age 50 and saying you checking retirement.

3. You could have entered on a tourist visa or even a visa exempt 30 day entry and converted to a non immigrant visa inside Thailand for 2,000 baht.

Correct me if I'm wrong again, but I have been told on another subject thread that there are NO VISAs issued inside Thailand...only extensions of stay ??

This is where these visa discussions so mixed up by the uninitiated (such as me)??