Wife Using Thai Passport

[rddryden]

I have a question about my Thai wife using a Thai passport leaving and entering Thailand. We heard we could use her Thai passport instead of her American passport. Well, we have went to different countries in the last month or so using her Thai passport. We just came back into the country through immigraitons in Bangkok. The officer told my wife she had to decide which passport to use. He changed the information in the computer to my wife's Thai passport. He said she could not switch back and forth. She had to use one or the other. So, this is no problem, we understand we can use the Thai passport for entering and exiting Thailand.

My question is, what do I do about the American passport because we have a visa as a Thai national which has to be renewed year by year? Do I just stop renewing that visa? Also, they know us at the immigration office because the same officers have been there for several years and they know us well. If my wife does not get her visa renewed, they may ask, why?

[InterestedObserver]

If your wife enters and leaves Thailand using her Thai passport, she does not need to maintain a visa in her US passport. The dual nationality question is a separate issue.

Edited September 11, 2010 by InterestedObserver

[rddryden]

What do we do about the existing visa in the American passport? When it is time to renew her's just don't renew it?

[InterestedObserver]

What do we do about the existing visa in the American passport? When it is time to renew her's just don't renew it?

Correct, provided her last entry into Thailand was on her Thai passport.

[rddryden]

Thanks, but one more question. All the officers at immigrations know us, so what do we tell them if they ask why she is not extending her visa?

Thanks again in advance.

[lopburi3]

You just do not renew the one year extension of stay. It is only required if you enter on a foreign passport and want to stay longer than the normal visa exempt time. People cease to continue extensions of stay all the time so nothing unusual about it. Expect you are talking about when you visit immigration for extensions of stay? Just say she is Thai (entered on Thai passport). Should not have to go beyond that.

[rddryden]

You just do not renew the one year extension of stay. It is only required if you enter on a foreign passport and want to stay longer than the normal visa exempt time. People cease to continue extensions of stay all the time so nothing unusual about it. Expect you are talking about when you visit immigration for extensions of stay? Just say she is Thai (entered on Thai passport). Should not have to go beyond that.

Okay, that is what I thought, but we have went to the same immigrations office for several years now and they know she has a present visa in her American passport. I didn't know how they would respond if we say we switched to her Thai passport. Is that a problem with them?

[p_brownstone]

You just do not renew the one year extension of stay. It is only required if you enter on a foreign passport and want to stay longer than the normal visa exempt time. People cease to continue extensions of stay all the time so nothing unusual about it. Expect you are talking about when you visit immigration for extensions of stay? Just say she is Thai (entered on Thai passport). Should not have to go beyond that.

Okay, that is what I thought, but we have went to the same immigrations office for several years now and they know she has a present visa in her American passport. I didn't know how they would respond if we say we switched to her Thai passport. Is that a problem with them?

A Thai Citizen holding a Thai Passport cannot be refused entry into Thailand.

That she has a second Passport, with or without a Visa, is irrelevant and is not the responsibilty or concern for the Thai Immigration Officer - Dual Nationality is accepted in Thailand.

Patrick

[JimGant]

I didn't know how they would respond if we say we switched to her Thai passport. Is that a problem with them?

They'll probably say "about time you decided that paying 5700 baht per year, and doing 90-day reports, is nonsense."

At least that's what they inferred to my wife a few years back, before she had switched from US to Thai passport. (She had been afraid there was something illegal about the two passport routine. I couldn't convince her, but a friend finally did.)

[rddryden]

I didn't know how they would respond if we say we switched to her Thai passport. Is that a problem with them?

They'll probably say "about time you decided that paying 5700 baht per year, and doing 90-day reports, is nonsense."

At least that's what they inferred to my wife a few years back, before she had switched from US to Thai passport. (She had been afraid there was something illegal about the two passport routine. I couldn't convince her, but a friend finally did.)

Yes, that is the same as my wife. She is afraid that it is illegal and I wasn't sure my self. Thanks for replying here, makes me feel better to tell her not to worry as well.

[Pib]

My wife is a dual citizen, Thai and American. Uses the Thai passport when exiting and entering Thailand at the Thai "immigration" point; uses the American passport when exiting and entering the US at the US "immigration" point. Satisfies the immigration folks.

Now, at the airlines "check-in" counter she needs to show both passports sometimes to prove she is allowed to enter the Thailand or the US without a visa/return ticket. Satisfies the airlines folks.

It's good to be satisfied.

[vallapawilliam]

Thank you for the useful information. I will show this forum to my husband, so he will stop worrying about my using Thai passport the next time we leave/enter Thailand. I just acquired my Thai passport in 2006, after

40 years, and have never use it yet.

A question for those who actually use two passports for traveling, do you have to explain to the US Immigration Officer why you don't have exit stamp on the US passport upon leaving Thailand?

Thank you for any suggestions and information regarding this.

Have a great day!

Edited September 12, 2010 by vallapawilliam

[lopburi3]

Most countries don't even make a stamp these days so it would not be questioned. Plus US laws make it a requirement that you use US Passport if you have one for entry/exit of the USA. So you are doing exactly what the law requires you do.

[asiawatcher]

I run two passports simply to facilitate certain exemptions in each country I travel to. My work permit and Non Imm attaches to one and my entry and exit to Thailand has that stamped in and out. Once I leave Thailand I use my other passport which is far more travel friendly. Main reason is for the amount of stupid stamps and visa problems incurred by Immigration in Thailand which was costing me a new passport every year due to the pages required to facilitate 'stamps' and visas.

However - Immigration has on your entry 'where you came from' and you are under NO obligation to tell them anything else. You can use whichever passport you choose. If you have a US passport I can see no reason to use it to enter Thailand as a Thai national? Use your Thai passport for in and out and your US passport for all else. Common sense. Works for me!

[TheWhiteFella]

I would keep the USA passport up to date,, it allows her to travel with much greater ease if you are going anywhere outside of Thailand

[Pib]

A question for those who actually use two passports for traveling, do you have to explain to the US Immigration Officer why you don't have exit stamp on the US passport upon leaving Thailand?

No. But if they would ever ask, you just say you are a dual citizen, American and Thai, and used the Thai passport exiting Thailand. If they ask to see the Thai passport, show it to them...but they will still be stamping you into the US on the American passport. Tons of dual citizens going in and out of the US everyday...which also means those same tons of dual citizens are going in and out of other countries like Thailand.

[JimGant]

Vallapa,

The wife's Thai passport was issued in Bangkok -- while she was in Thailand on her US passport. As such, she had to leave on her US passport (to clear her previous entry). When she then re-entered Thailand a few months later, she used her Thai passport for the first time.

Fortunately, there was a veteran Immigration officer at Don Muang. He asked for the old Thai passport, to check the exit stamp. This she didn't have -- and it didn't have an exit stamp in it anyway, as she'd been using her US passport for 35 years. Also, she, of course, didn't have the entry part of the landing card either (they pull the departure part when you leave Thailand, then staple the arrival part to the Thai passport). Anyway, she explained the dual citizenship aspect, the Immigration officer had seen this many times before, and stamped her in (with some kind of brief annotation to the stamp, apparently explaining about no landing card).

But, as a suggestion, have your US passport tucked out of sight. If the Immigration officer is new and/or looks confused, explain the dual citizenship, and that you last exited on the US passport. If he/she then wants to see your US passport, ask to speak to a supervisor. Otherwise, if he sees both your Thai and US passports, he may just grab your US passport and stamp you in, before you can protest.

Which brings up the question: Did she fill out a landing card, like she would do if she were entering on her US passport? She can't remember. I would question its need, however, since for Thais, the process is reversed from foreigners (who, of course, arrive first, depart last). Anyway, someone might be able to comment on that. Otherwise, have it filled out, but tucked away with the US passport.

[KCPhuket]

Vallapa,

The wife's Thai passport was issued in Bangkok -- while she was in Thailand on her US passport. As such, she had to leave on her US passport (to clear her previous entry). When she then re-entered Thailand a few months later, she used her Thai passport for the first time.

Fortunately, there was a veteran Immigration officer at Don Muang. He asked for the old Thai passport, to check the exit stamp. This she didn't have -- and it didn't have an exit stamp in it anyway, as she'd been using her US passport for 35 years. Also, she, of course, didn't have the entry part of the landing card either (they pull the departure part when you leave Thailand, then staple the arrival part to the Thai passport). Anyway, she explained the dual citizenship aspect, the Immigration officer had seen this many times before, and stamped her in (with some kind of brief annotation to the stamp, apparently explaining about no landing card).

But, as a suggestion, have your US passport tucked out of sight. If the Immigration officer is new and/or looks confused, explain the dual citizenship, and that you last exited on the US passport. If he/she then wants to see your US passport, ask to speak to a supervisor. Otherwise, if he sees both your Thai and US passports, he may just grab your US passport and stamp you in, before you can protest.

Which brings up the question: Did she fill out a landing card, like she would do if she were entering on her US passport? She can't remember. I would question its need, however, since for Thais, the process is reversed from foreigners (who, of course, arrive first, depart last). Anyway, someone might be able to comment on that. Otherwise, have it filled out, but tucked away with the US passport.

We recently went to America and my wife who is dual citizen showed both passports when asked. But she did exit/enter Thailand with the Thai passport and used her US passport in the US. We had a problem when returning to Thailand...Delta would not let my 3-year old daughter fly without an onward ticket...even though her ticket was the return to Thailand of a round-trip! So, can we get her a Thai passport? She is now dual and in the house registration book also. Thanks.

[lopburi3]

You can and should get her a Thai passport as travelling with other requires meeting that requirement (thus the ticket check).

If born outside Thailand you obtain a Thai birth certificate from Thai Embassy and they can make a passport based on that. If born in Thailand use the Thai birth certificate. If doing in Thailand believe it will also require child be listed on a home register somewhere.

[jjmax]

You just do not renew the one year extension of stay. It is only required if you enter on a foreign passport and want to stay longer than the normal visa exempt time. People cease to continue extensions of stay all the time so nothing unusual about it. Expect you are talking about when you visit immigration for extensions of stay? Just say she is Thai (entered on Thai passport). Should not have to go beyond that.

Okay, that is what I thought, but we have went to the same immigrations office for several years now and they know she has a present visa in her American passport. I didn't know how they would respond if we say we switched to her Thai passport. Is that a problem with them?

A Thai Citizen holding a Thai Passport cannot be refused entry into Thailand.

That she has a second Passport, with or without a Visa, is irrelevant and is not the responsibilty or concern for the Thai Immigration Officer - Dual Nationality is accepted in Thailand.

Patrick

My daughter is half-Thai and we've been told, from officials in Immigration, that she'll need to opt for one nationality or the other by the time she is 20. So they're telling us dual nationality is a no-no.

We've also been told, unofficially, that it's easy to get around it - just don't use the other passport in Thailand.

Also, if questioned, why not say the American passport was lost/stolen?

Edited September 12, 2010 by jjmax

[Maestro]

There is no need to give an excuse for a Thai dual national arriving in Thailand with a Thai passport. If the immigration officer asks for your "other passport" it is most likely because there is no Thai exit stamp in your passport, which happens when you get your Thai passport from a Thai consulate, ie outside Thailand. If this is because you were born outside Thailand, the birth place shown in the passport serves as explanation. If it is because your old Thai passport expired whilst you were abroad and you did not bring you old, invalidated passport with the last Thai exit stamp with you, just say so. If it is because you last left on Thailand with your foreign passport and now are entering with your Thai passport, but you were born in Thailand, then you made a mistake and will have some explaining to do.

About your daughter being told by an immigration officer that she will have to opt for one nationality by the time she reaches 20, this applies to the use of passports in Thailand and she should already now use exclusively her Thai passport to exit an enter Thailand and use exclusively her Thai nationality in all other cases where she has to show identification in Thailand (hotel check-in, night clubs, etc.)

[p_brownstone]

You just do not renew the one year extension of stay. It is only required if you enter on a foreign passport and want to stay longer than the normal visa exempt time. People cease to continue extensions of stay all the time so nothing unusual about it. Expect you are talking about when you visit immigration for extensions of stay? Just say she is Thai (entered on Thai passport). Should not have to go beyond that.

Okay, that is what I thought, but we have went to the same immigrations office for several years now and they know she has a present visa in her American passport. I didn't know how they would respond if we say we switched to her Thai passport. Is that a problem with them?

A Thai Citizen holding a Thai Passport cannot be refused entry into Thailand.

That she has a second Passport, with or without a Visa, is irrelevant and is not the responsibilty or concern for the Thai Immigration Officer - Dual Nationality is accepted in Thailand.

Patrick

My daughter is half-Thai and we've been told, from officials in Immigration, that she'll need to opt for one nationality or the other by the time she is 20. So they're telling us dual nationality is a no-no.

We've also been told, unofficially, that it's easy to get around it - just don't use the other passport in Thailand.

Also, if questioned, why not say the American passport was lost/stolen?

There is no requirement as such to choose one Nationality between the ages of 20 and 21 - the relevant legislation uses words equivalent to "may choose" - but there is certainly no penalty for not so choosing and keeping both Nationalities (provided of course your other Nationality does not prohibit Dual Nationality).

My daughter was born in Thailand - British father Thai Mother - and is now 27 years old and living in London - she attended University in London and since age 18 she has visited us well over 25 times switching Passports as already described. She has never been questioned by Thai Immigration.

Literally hundreds of Thais with Dual Nationality enter or leave Thailand every day doing exactly the same thing - and many of them from "very well connected" families so there is virtually no chance that the situation will change.

Patrick

[Arkady]

It is beyond me why anyone who has nothing to hide would want to enter Thailand on a foreign passport and then get locked into Immigration's tedious extension of stay system, if they are a Thai citizen. Anyway she should now put paid to that nonsense and let the extension of stay lapse and only use her Thai nationality in Thailand.

Quite apart from the inconvenience it is unwise to advertise it unnecessarily to Immigration, if one is lucky enough to have dual nationality. While there is nothing that definitively prohibits dual nationality in the Nationality Act, there is also nothing that definitively permits it and there are several ambiguous clauses that are open to interpretation e.g. Section 22. "A person of Thai nationality who has been naturalised as an alien, or who has renounced Thai nationality, or whose Thai nationality has been revoked, shall lose Thai nationality."

Although it seems not to have been put into effect thus far, there is in fact a recent Immigration directive out there that instructs Immigration officers to report people who swap Thai and foreign passports when entering and leaving Thailand to the Interior Ministry so that the latter can revoke their Thai nationality by publishing an order in the Royal Gazette. This seems to be an attempt to revive an old edict of the Interior Ministry from the early 70s in which they appeared to interpret Section 22 as giving them the right to revoke Thai nationality from dual nationals and asked Thai embassies and consuls abroad to provide them with lists of suspected dual nationals. See this thread

The current stance of Immigration and the Interior Ministry seems to be inclined towards an unfavorable view of dual nationality and it is possible that the only thing holding them back is the Foreign Ministry's view that dual nationality is not specifically prohibited under the Nationality Act which has resulted in a flood of Thai passports issued to obvious dual nationals living overseas. For the first time ever applicants for Thai nationality by naturalisation have been asked to declare their intention to renounce their existing nationality.

I don't think there is any reason to be paranoid about having dual nationality at this point but it makes sense to be discrete about it and to be alert for any changes in the law or, very importantly, the interpretation of the law.

Edited September 13, 2010 by Arkady

[Arkady]

There is no requirement as such to choose one Nationality between the ages of 20 and 21 - the relevant legislation uses words equivalent to "may choose" - but there is certainly no penalty for not so choosing and keeping both Nationalities (provided of course your other Nationality does not prohibit Dual Nationality).

My daughter was born in Thailand - British father Thai Mother - and is now 27 years old and living in London - she attended University in London and since age 18 she has visited us well over 25 times switching Passports as already described. She has never been questioned by Thai Immigration.

Literally hundreds of Thais with Dual Nationality enter or leave Thailand every day doing exactly the same thing - and many of them from "very well connected" families so there is virtually no chance that the situation will change.

Patrick

I agree with your interpretation, Patrick. It is interesting to note that the 1992 Nationality Act which opened the floodgates to dual nationality by allowing Thai women to pass on their nationality without restriction was issued twice. In the first version, Section 14, the section to which you allude, specified that "look krueng" had to choose only one nationality between the ages of 20 and 21. However, this was rapidly followed by the second 1992 Act three weeks later which deleted the reference to the need to retain only one nationality and this was the only difference between the two 1992 Acts as far as I am aware. As it stands, the Minister is only empowered to prevent "look krueng" from surrendering their Thai nationality, in the event that he believes they have not or will not secure another nationality or, if the other nationality is of a nation with which Thailand is at war. He has no authority to revoke the nationality of "look krueng" and there is nothing ambiguous in the Act relating to their status, although there is some ambiguity in respect of Thais who have obtained another nationality by naturalisation, aliens who have obtained Thai nationality by naturalisation and those who obtained Thai nationality as a result of being born in Thailand to two alien parents. I am reliably informed that the issue of whether to allow dual nationality or prohibit it is one that has been hotly debated at the Interior Ministry for decades and remains at the forefront of discussion. The very significant reversal of legislation that had already been passed in 1992 seemed to indicate that the anti dual nationality camp at the Ministry temporarily got the upper hand but then had to back down immediately in the face of political lobbying from the type of influential people you mention who are either dual nationals or have dual nationals in their close family.

In respect of influential dual nationals we should remember that the son of a prominent former PM held American citizen until he voluntarily renounced it before acquiring substantial assets that would have made him of great interest to the IRS. It is also interesting to note that the current PM is entitled to British nationality, since he was born in the UK before the 1981 British Nationality Act modified the rights to British nationality of those born in UK to alien parents. Since he went to school and university in England, it is difficult to imagine that he didn't take up his right to UK nationality to avoid the hassle of applying for student visas, even though he was quoted as oddly telling Thaksin to give up his Thai nationality "because dual nationality is prohibited". It seems strange that the issue of Abhisit's dual nationality has never been explored by the Opposition and the media. I believe that his daughters are also entitled to British nationality, assuming that he has it.

Edited September 13, 2010 by Arkady

[Pib]

Some more info on subject from a 2004 Phuket Gazette Q&A, per the Deputy Director-General, Consular Affairs Department, Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

http://www.phuketgazette.net/archives/issuesanswers/2004/article694.html

[Gimbo]

Thank you for the useful information. I will show this forum to my husband, so he will stop worrying about my using Thai passport the next time we leave/enter Thailand. I just acquired my Thai passport in 2006, after

40 years, and have never use it yet.

A question for those who actually use two passports for traveling, do you have to explain to the US Immigration Officer why you don't have exit stamp on the US passport upon leaving Thailand?

Thank you for any suggestions and information regarding this.

Have a great day!

You better hurry up then as next year it will expire...Thai passports are only valid for 5 years :-)

[Arkady]

Thank you for the useful information. I will show this forum to my husband, so he will stop worrying about my using Thai passport the next time we leave/enter Thailand. I just acquired my Thai passport in 2006, after

40 years, and have never use it yet.

A question for those who actually use two passports for traveling, do you have to explain to the US Immigration Officer why you don't have exit stamp on the US passport upon leaving Thailand?

Thank you for any suggestions and information regarding this.

Have a great day!

You better hurry up then as next year it will expire...Thai passports are only valid for 5 years :-)

US Immigration officers are unlikely to be too concerned about what stamps you have or don't have in your passport, since you are a US citizen and they can't stop you entering the country. In the very unlikely event they ask, just show them your Thai passport. The US permits dual nationality under a 1983 ruling of the Supreme Court and there are even US Foreign Service employees who are permitted to retain dual nationality these days, if the other nationality is not regarded as creating a possible conflict of interests. The only legal restriction is that US citizens must always enter and leave the US on their US passports.