The Rumour Is That Thailand Is Actually Moving Forward

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STREET WISE

The rumour is that Thailand is actually moving forward

By Achara Deboonme

The Nation

This week presented such an irony as to which country we are living in, with strange developments in several areas that involve people in all walks of life.

In the business world, we experienced a hiccup concerning the 3G bidding, as well as the rumours of an intervention on the baht. In politics, we heard that there are "men in black" stalking around Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva's residence in the Sukhumvit area. In the entertainment world, an actor appeared in the news as the potential father of an unborn child.

Concerning the 3G bidding, it was supposed to take place next Monday as planned. But CAT Telecom, even without support from the board of directors and PM Abhisit, eventually pushed the case to court, asking for an injunction on the bidding on the grounds that the National Telecommunications Commission has no authority in arranging the bid. A ruling was expected on Wednesday. As of 7pm on Thursday, the Central Administrative Court had deferred the decision. It was known that the court had started typing the verdict at 4pm. If it favours CAT, the September 20 bidding will be postponed.

During that time, NTC and CAT Telecom staff were waiting fulltime by the fax machine for the verdict. While the NTC expected victory, throughout yesterday there were rumours that it may lose the case. Amid the excitement, three bidders joined the bidding rehearsal as planned, only to fall foul of a computer malfunction.

Politically, yesterday, sources in the government confirmed the appearance of "men in black" amid rumours of a possible assassination attempt on the prime minister. This further validated rumours, which have become more and more widespread as the red shirts plan another gathering this Sunday to mark the fourth anniversary of the 2006 coup.

The confirmation of "men in black" apparently validates the government's decision to maintain the emergency decree as well as the operations of the Centre for Resolution of the Emergency Situation (CRES), which involves the deployment of soldiers and police officers at a cost to taxpayers.

I'm glad the CRES is still in place for our safety, but I would be more delighted if its actions would put out the fires for good and the centre eventually fold for good. Certainly, it is not a pleasant sight to see soldiers with guns at Skytrain stations.

Then, yesterday, the entertainment world was focused on a model's pregnancy, as an actor vowed to take responsibility for the child if DNA tests prove that the child belongs to him. On the streets, the model was criticised for her premarital pregnancy. The actor faced criticism, too.

Many Thais still believe that once a man gets a woman pregnant, he should marry her. Certainly, they can separate later. But then, what's the point in getting married in the first place if a couple are more interested in sexual intercourse than in starting a family?

However, this is an issue that concerns only the model and the actor. Criticising them is affirmation that we have nothing more important to think about.

On one front, Thailand is apparently moving forward, with the likelihood that broadband services will soon be more widely available with the 3G bidding, though not cheaper. But on other fronts, we are still dealing with the same old problems - political wrangling and the public's obsession with celebrity gossip.

To outsiders, it must be puzzling. Is Thailand really moving forward?

-- The Nation 2010-09-17

[Pib]

Thailand is definitely moving forward but the self built road seems pretty bumpy in some places. Every country moves at it's own pace; some slow and some faster than others. But who is to determine what is really forward motion. What one person considers an improvement, chances are another person will not.

[SamritT]

"The confirmation of "men in black" apparently validates the government's decision to maintain the emergency decree as well as the operations of the Centre for Resolution of the Emergency Situation (CRES), which involves the deployment of soldiers and police officers at a cost to taxpayers." - Soldiers and police have to eat too. Their family also have to eat too.

[geovalin]

When all the other countries give priority to education, Thailand refuses to teach her children well. The move forward is inevitable.

To teach the children is dangerous for the establishment.

Now this is the Thai choice and it has to be respected. I guess most of the foreigners wish this move forward to avoid Thailand become a modern, transparent and... expensive country.

Edited September 17, 2010 by geovalin

[asiawatcher]

I'm glad it is only a rumour .....

[Seanextra]

Whats all this ? I always thought the job of the "HUB" was to spin in circles never actually moving anywhere ? Amusing Thailand!

Edited September 17, 2010 by Seanextra

[RKASA]

It reminds me of the US always saying the debt is growing at a projected rate less then it was projected to be growing and we may have a reduction in the rate of the increase in the growth of the rate of the debt in the near future. All is well.

[givenall]

It reminds me of the US always saying the debt is growing at a projected rate less then it was projected to be growing and we may have a reduction in the rate of the increase in the growth of the rate of the debt in the near future. All is well.

I have stopped stressing about Thailand situation long ago. I just remind myself this is Thai people country and they are responsible to take car of her. I am just here to have fun

Edited September 17, 2010 by givenall

[mochafan]

Thailand is definitely moving forward but the self built road seems pretty bumpy in some places. Every country moves at it's own pace; some slow and some faster than others. But who is to determine what is really forward motion. What one person considers an improvement, chances are another person will not.

Thailand is not moving forward or backwards...it's just going in circles. A dog chasing it's tail.

[tomyummer]

I'm glad it is only a rumour .....

I believe this country is built on rumours.

[BSJ]

Strange article! The more I read it the stranger it become!

[Thai at Heart]

Not much good if you don't where you want to go. Oblivion is out there somewhere too.

[gotlost]

I thought it was against Thai Visa forum rules to post a rumor thread.?

[Deeral]

"The confirmation of "men in black" apparently validates the government's decision to maintain the emergency decree as well as the operations of the Centre for Resolution of the Emergency Situation (CRES), which involves the deployment of soldiers and police officers at a cost to taxpayers." - Soldiers and police have to eat too. Their family also have to eat too.

Perhaps Thailand might like to consider what its army is for.

in most country's it is to defend the Nation against aggressors.In Thailand the main target seems to be their fellow citizens (or rather - subjects)

[whybother]

"The confirmation of "men in black" apparently validates the government's decision to maintain the emergency decree as well as the operations of the Centre for Resolution of the Emergency Situation (CRES), which involves the deployment of soldiers and police officers at a cost to taxpayers." - Soldiers and police have to eat too. Their family also have to eat too.

Perhaps Thailand might like to consider what its army is for.

in most country's it is to defend the Nation against aggressors.In Thailand the main target seems to be their fellow citizens (or rather - subjects)

doesn't the US use their army (national guard) for internal issues?

[Deeral]

"The confirmation of "men in black" apparently validates the government's decision to maintain the emergency decree as well as the operations of the Centre for Resolution of the Emergency Situation (CRES), which involves the deployment of soldiers and police officers at a cost to taxpayers." - Soldiers and police have to eat too. Their family also have to eat too.

Perhaps Thailand might like to consider what its army is for.

in most country's it is to defend the Nation against aggressors.In Thailand the main target seems to be their fellow citizens (or rather - subjects)

doesn't the US use their army (national guard) for internal issues?

You just said it - NATIONAL GUARD - not the ARMY.........i'm not sure that I'd regard the US as a prime example of how a state treats its own though.

[whybother]

Many countries use their army for internal matters when their police force is not sufficiently trained to do particular jobs. in some countries they use the army for rescue related issues. in others they have specialist organizations to do the job.

in Thailand, the police are (obviously) not trained for riot and security issues. so it falls to the army to deal with.

[rubl]

Perhaps Thailand might like to consider what its army is for.

in most country's it is to defend the Nation against aggressors.In Thailand the main target seems to be their fellow citizens (or rather - subjects)

doesn't the US use their army (national guard) for internal issues?

You just said it - NATIONAL GUARD - not the ARMY.........i'm not sure that I'd regard the US as a prime example of how a state treats its own though.

There's no such thing as a National Guard in Thailand. So if police doesn't suffice you move one up to ... the Army.

BTW in the USA the National Guard is a Reserve Military Force. In 2007 28% of US Forces in Iraq consisted of mobilized personel of NG and other reserve components.

Edited September 17, 2010 by rubl

[Deeral]

You seem to be unaware that in most constitutional countries the use of the army against one's own people is a no-no.

there are several reasons for this...one of which is the separation of politics and the armed forces.

That's why there is a National guard - not a very good example, it is actually a bit of a flaw in US's modus operandum.

if you police force and law and order are OK then there should be no reason to introduce the army - this is a form of national self harm.....look at other countries - the States isn't the only country in the world you know.

[tigermonkey]

"The confirmation of "men in black" apparently validates the government's decision to maintain the emergency decree as well as the operations of the Centre for Resolution of the Emergency Situation (CRES), which involves the deployment of soldiers and police officers at a cost to taxpayers." - Soldiers and police have to eat too. Their family also have to eat too.

The article states that the "deployment" is "at a cost to taxpayers". They are much less expensive if they don't go anywhere or do anything.

Thank you so much for your highly enlightening comment -- you must presume that we farang thought that Thailand had advanced to the point of having android police and army personnel.

Actually it would be an interesting improvement, providing that the programming was properly done.

Now -- how about android politicians that don't care about personal wealth?

[rubl]

You seem to be unaware that in most constitutional countries the use of the army against one's own people is a no-no.

there are several reasons for this...one of which is the separation of politics and the armed forces.

That's why there is a National guard - not a very good example, it is actually a bit of a flaw in US's modus operandum.

if you police force and law and order are OK then there should be no reason to introduce the army - this is a form of national self harm.....look at other countries - the States isn't the only country in the world you know.

As I indicated the example of NG in the USA is indeed not a good example, it's a military unit. Calling the NG in the USA is the same as calling the Army here IMHO.

You're right, normally shouldn't be done WHEN the police is up to it's tasks and actually doing them. IF not, call in the next level which for Thailand is the Army.

As for your first sentence unlike most posters here I still have to read the laws of my own country (doubt I ever will though ).

Edited September 17, 2010 by rubl

[TPI]

It reminds me of the US always saying the debt is growing at a projected rate less then it was projected to be growing and we may have a reduction in the rate of the increase in the growth of the rate of the debt in the near future. All is well.

I have stopped stressing about Thailand situation long ago. I just remind myself this is Thai people country and they are responsible to take car of her. I am just here to have fun

Roger that! If one came to Thailand with the expectation of doing anything of a substantive nature.....doing good, changing the world etc. Bad luck! Just lay back and watch the wheels go round.

[hammered]

Of course Thailand is moving forward but slowly and two steps forward and one back as change and modern world are resisted by the bureaucracy. The young also think differently form the older generations and that will change things when they have their day. The blinbd respect for elders and old ways has also pretty much collapsed in the time I have been here with the old being seen as the ones who have screwed the whole country up and with hope now residing in the coming youth. We will see. It could come quickly or slowly and peacefully or otherwise.

Organs like CAT and TOT with their resistance to change are typical of how the bureaucracy will react to anything they dont like even if their actions are anti the country and its people as they indisputably are in the 3G case. Self perpetuation of the bureaucracy is paramount to the bureaucracy whatever the cost and whatever the pain it will inflict on country or people.

Another example is how the subject Thai in school has now become the number one most hated subject with Thai students (twenty years ago it was English!). This is not because of the language itself but because in recent years the teaching of Thai has suddenly started to involve loads more cultural and language root stuff and less acceptance of deviating from standard form none of which the kids are interested in, and little of which connects to their lives. The result is in the future going to be the exact opposite to what those implementing such plans want.

The positives though are people are more aware these days and more questioning. Think of all colour coded protests, Rayong industry, Sarayud house and now even the Alpine case. As communications improve and more people go through to a higher level of education things will only change more

[Deeral]

THe next level?? the army in thailand thinks it ahs the right to meddle in politics - this is extremely unhealthy for a country that claims to be constitutional.

The army had in fact lost a lot of its influence until the coup brought them back and what a mess they made after that.

Now they are interferring again like they used to and shooting thai citizens - not a satisfactory situation regardless of how serious the crisis - this is basic stuff - you DON"T have the military in politics.period.

when it comes to moving forward well that remains to be seen - Thailand systematically and regularly shoots itself in the foot - people may cite the economic expansion rates as good. but actually in a country that is reliant on exports and is still developing an industrial economy, it isn't really nearly good enough....countries like India and china have far more rapid growth.

BTW - please don't chip in with Western growth rates - they are from developed economies and are a completely different kettle of fish.

Edited September 17, 2010 by Deeral

[hammered]

THe next level?? the army in thailand thinks it ahs the right to meddle in politics - this is extremely unhealthy for a country that claims to be constitutional.

The army had in fact lost a lot of its influence until the coup brought them back and what a mess they made after that.

Now they are interferring again like they used to and shooting thai citizens - not a satisfactory situation regardless of how serious the crisis - this is basic stuff - you DON"T have the military in politics.period.

when it comes to moving forward well that remains to be seen - Thailand systematically and regularly shoots itself in the foot - people may cite the economic expansion rates as good. but actually in a country that is reliant on exports and is still developing an industrial economy, it isn't really nearly good enough....countries like India and china have far more rapid growth.

BTW - please don't chip in with Western growth rates - they are from developed economies and are a completely different kettle of fish.

Interesting that you quote China as a fine example of development and yet say you cant have the army meddle in politics. The whole Chinese model is capitalism without democracy and the army have a record of crushing things there. I wonder how many undeveloped countries will increasingly look to thje Chinese model rather than the western one especially as China survived the economic crisis better than any developed country and is increasingly practicing a global foreign policy.

I am not advocating the Chinese model as ideal by the way but just recognzing that it is a viable model and may appeal to certain countries.

[Deeral]

THe next level?? the army in thailand thinks it ahs the right to meddle in politics - this is extremely unhealthy for a country that claims to be constitutional.

The army had in fact lost a lot of its influence until the coup brought them back and what a mess they made after that.

Now they are interferring again like they used to and shooting thai citizens - not a satisfactory situation regardless of how serious the crisis - this is basic stuff - you DON"T have the military in politics.period.

when it comes to moving forward well that remains to be seen - Thailand systematically and regularly shoots itself in the foot - people may cite the economic expansion rates as good. but actually in a country that is reliant on exports and is still developing an industrial economy, it isn't really nearly good enough....countries like India and china have far more rapid growth.

BTW - please don't chip in with Western growth rates - they are from developed economies and are a completely different kettle of fish.

Interesting that you quote China as a fine example of development and yet say you cant have the army meddle in politics. The whole Chinese model is capitalism without democracy and the army have a record of crushing things there. I wonder how many undeveloped countries will increasingly look to thje Chinese model rather than the western one especially as China survived the economic crisis better than any developed country and is increasingly practicing a global foreign policy.

I am not advocating the Chinese model as ideal by the way but just recognzing that it is a viable model and may appeal to certain countries.

I most certainly don't advocate China as a model anything - it is a prime example of a dictatorial society - I don't know how much power the military has internally these days. In Thailand the army did try to meddle in the economy after the coup with some pretty disastrous results. i think china has tchno and bureaucrats for that.THailand too has a hugely powerful bureaucracy (and corrupt) but they haven't shown any sign of being competent either.

I also think it will soon show how this kind of society cannot survive. As for the economy the maths dictate that to sustain the industrialisation at that level and keep wages down the growth rate has to be exponential which thailand's isn't.

The problem with the Chinese model and all dictatorial models is that they ultimately are doomed.

if you have a successful economy you must have an educated and well-off middle class - and in the end they will demand a say in how things are run.

This is a problem that both thailand and China face in one way or another.eventually you have either to concede to the MC r clamp down - if you clampdown you lose you experts in all areas and investors and eventually the economy dwindles and the society collapses.sadly I think there is a propensity in S.E. Asia to go for the dictatorial solution, but it really isn't a satisfactory long-term solution.

Edited September 17, 2010 by Deeral

[whybother]

You seem to be unaware that in most constitutional countries the use of the army against one's own people is a no-no.

there are several reasons for this...one of which is the separation of politics and the armed forces.

That's why there is a National guard - not a very good example, it is actually a bit of a flaw in US's modus operandum.

if you police force and law and order are OK then there should be no reason to introduce the army - this is a form of national self harm.....look at other countries - the States isn't the only country in the world you know.

You hit the nail on the head - "IF YOUR POLICE FORCE ARE OK ...."

But really, it's irrelevant which force have been used here. An armed force would have been used where ever something like this happened. Eg SWAT in the US (I doubt the National Guard would actually be used), equivalent SWATs in other countries. The April/May protests weren't just a riot. The red shirts had guns and grenades. That always seems to be forgotten by red shirt supporters.

[whybother]

The problem with the Chinese model and all dictatorial models is that they ultimately are doomed.

if you have a successful economy you must have an educated and well-off middle class - and in the end they will demand a say in how things are run.

This is a problem that both thailand and China face in one way or another.eventually you have either to concede to the MC r clamp down - if you clampdown you lose you experts in all areas and investors and eventually the economy dwindles and the society collapses.

Singapore seems to manage.

[Deeral]

The problem with the Chinese model and all dictatorial models is that they ultimately are doomed.

if you have a successful economy you must have an educated and well-off middle class - and in the end they will demand a say in how things are run.

This is a problem that both thailand and China face in one way or another.eventually you have either to concede to the MC r clamp down - if you clampdown you lose you experts in all areas and investors and eventually the economy dwindles and the society collapses.

Singapore seems to manage.

Singapore is currently undergoing major changes to liberalize both society and business as a new generation of "rulers" comes in. the draconian regulations are now regarded by many as stifling creativity in all sectors.It is also often cited in these types of conversations but I think rather pointlessly as Singapore is a small city state and comparing with China or Thailand is apples and oranges really.

BTW - would YOU want to live there???

[Deeral]

You seem to be unaware that in most constitutional countries the use of the army against one's own people is a no-no.

there are several reasons for this...one of which is the separation of politics and the armed forces.

That's why there is a National guard - not a very good example, it is actually a bit of a flaw in US's modus operandum.

if you police force and law and order are OK then there should be no reason to introduce the army - this is a form of national self harm.....look at other countries - the States isn't the only country in the world you know.

You hit the nail on the head - "IF YOUR POLICE FORCE ARE OK ...."

But really, it's irrelevant which force have been used here. An armed force would have been used where ever something like this happened. Eg SWAT in the US (I doubt the National Guard would actually be used), equivalent SWATs in other countries. The April/May protests weren't just a riot. The red shirts had guns and grenades. That always seems to be forgotten by red shirt supporters.

No you miss the point entirely - just because they have uniforms does not mean they are the same - it is how they operate - not how they are armed that is critical and how that role is defined in a constitution. Unfortunately in thailand so long as the Army thinks it has a role to play in politics it will be a monkey on the back of the country's progress towards any workable form of democracy.

THe Army are a major part of the problems facing Thailand; the solution is to disempower them and organise the police as UNCORRUPT SERVANTS of the people .