Thailand On Red Alert

[whybother]

Thousands of reds occupy Rajprasong

Thousands of red-shirt protesters have occupied the Rajaprasong Intersection as part of their protest against the coup four years ago and fatal crackdowns against their peers four months ago.

As of 2:45 pm, the red crowds have almost totally occupied Rajprasong.

Some estimated their number to be higher than 3,500.

The protesters shouted in unison: "People have died here".

I thought all the deaths were at the edges of or outside the protest areas (Silom, Sathorn etc) or around the temple. Were there deaths at the stage area?

edit: what's happened to the formatting?

Edited September 19, 2010 by whybother

[xminator]

12:24PM Ratchaprasong more or less blocked ( http://twitpic.com/2pvod1 )

So where is so-called "SoE rule not to allow crowds 5+ pax"????????

Anyone in this f#$%#$%#$@ govt able to enforce even ONE thing in their own country?? Where is the police? Where are SWATs? Noone to disperce the 2nd season of this red-soap drama?

I should re-think my decision to pay my taxes to THIS.

Please excuse me, but this gathering to commemorate an event was agreed upon with police, etc. Strict rules to be followed, end of happening 8PM.

You could have read about it the last week.

Traffic blocked because of many people, not because of deliberate blocking.

So what's your problem ?

(PS ManU - Liverpool start 7.30PM, don't miss this red-shirt show)

First, with the SOE in effect, there are suppose to be NO political gatherings of more than 5 people. Then they were asked not to block traffic. Then they were asked not to use loudspeakers. All broken. What's next? Burning of buildings...again...

I see no strict rules here at all...nothings being enforced?

Dont tell med the government where caught in their own PR spin about how there are no more red shirts. Looks like people come early for a good seat, and most likely will stay on trough the evening. Not looking organized other then someone telling that come - wear red. Unless CRES - or whatever they call themselfs these days - do something stupid like fiering live ammunition again, people will go away and false normalcy resumed tomorrow.

I guess calls of restraint and reconciliation will drown in the neo-nazi hatespew that have dominated these forums more and more since 2006.

[rubl]

Police has cleared UrbanSpace for the many red-shirts. K. Sombat used a (police?) speaker-car to urge them to go there, also free toilets. Following some red-shirt start saying it's a trap, don't go there.

Makes you wonder who is running this show.

PS in Dusit are still raining a bit.

[whybother]

Dont tell med the government where caught in their own PR spin about how there are no more red shirts. Looks like people come early for a good seat, and most likely will stay on trough the evening. Not looking organized other then someone telling that come - wear red. Unless CRES - or whatever they call themselfs these days - do something stupid like fiering live ammunition again, people will go away and false normalcy resumed tomorrow.

I guess calls of restraint and reconciliation will drown in the neo-nazi hatespew that have dominated these forums more and more since 2006.

Where did anyone say there were no more red shirts?

[rubl]

Dont tell med the government where caught in their own PR spin about how there are no more red shirts. Looks like people come early for a good seat, and most likely will stay on trough the evening. Not looking organized other then someone telling that come - wear red. Unless CRES - or whatever they call themselfs these days - do something stupid like fiering live ammunition again, people will go away and false normalcy resumed tomorrow.

I guess calls of restraint and reconciliation will drown in the neo-nazi hatespew that have dominated these forums more and more since 2006.

You forgot to add IMHO, or even IMO, can't have that

[bkkjames]

Ximnator, give you 3-1 odds the first live ammo or grenade will come from the peaceful red side.

Take 3 parts red bull, 2 parts MP that makes threats to burn down the city, add in 500 baht and shake.

[xminator]

Being somewhat Machiavellian I think some people don't need to be given a rope to hang themselves.

If the reds want to breech any of the conditions agreed upon for this peaceful gathering, well let them. Document it. It can be used as evidence that

- The red-shirt leadership with K. Sombat agreeing on conditions cannot be trusted

- Government justified in refusing permission for more 'gatherings'

- after 8PM today start the dispersal following the famous 7-point approach

- etc., etc.

(edit: add 7-point approach)

Why would you wish more violence? This is about numbers. It looks like both sides are surprised by the turnout. You cant tell 20 people to stand in one square meter. They will occupy whatever space needed for personal comfort. The same goes for how fast the space is emptied. You can force a stampede at 8PM, or you can stay back and wait for people to go home. There is absolutly nothing that indicate another long term standoff in Bangkok.

[xminator]

Ximnator, give you 3-1 odds the first live ammo or grenade will come from the peaceful red side.

Take 3 parts red bull, 2 parts MP that makes threats to burn down the city, add in 500 baht and shake.

As I've said, the forum have seriously degraded the last 4 years.

[whybother]

Ximnator, give you 3-1 odds the first live ammo or grenade will come from the peaceful red side.

Take 3 parts red bull, 2 parts MP that makes threats to burn down the city, add in 500 baht and shake.

As I've said, the forum have seriously degraded the last 4 years.

Does that coincide with the rise of the red shirts?

[rubl]

Being somewhat Machiavellian I think some people don't need to be given a rope to hang themselves.

If the reds want to breech any of the conditions agreed upon for this peaceful gathering, well let them. Document it. It can be used as evidence that

- The red-shirt leadership with K. Sombat agreeing on conditions cannot be trusted

- Government justified in refusing permission for more 'gatherings'

- after 8PM today start the dispersal following the famous 7-point approach

- etc., etc.

(edit: add 7-point approach)

Why would you wish more violence? This is about numbers. It looks like both sides are surprised by the turnout. You cant tell 20 people to stand in one square meter. They will occupy whatever space needed for personal comfort. The same goes for how fast the space is emptied. You can force a stampede at 8PM, or you can stay back and wait for people to go home. There is absolutly nothing that indicate another long term standoff in Bangkok.

Where did I say I wish for more violence. Read some of my previous replies on this topic, I'd say.

At 8PM reds should be seen starting to disperse. With that large a crowd, police needs to be involved to make sure roads are free to be used

by the people leaving. Because of the March - May history (i.e. one of the events commemorated today) police needs to be alert. Not spoiled for a fight, just cautious.

[Jingthing]

There is absolutly nothing that indicate another long term standoff in Bangkok.

Nothing except their bloody fiery TRACK RECORD. How can they be trusted?

Black Songkran. The Burning of Bangkok. What more evidence do you need?

Next ...

[alex_aka_P]

I think the argument is that this is not a political gathering, but a "commemorative rally"...

Call it the way you want. The previous one was also "just a peaseful rally" - and you could clearly see the burned Central World on the twit pics above. Right behind those "peaceful protestors".

[bkkjames]

Yes ximantor, we all agree with this fact, even more so within the last 30 mins

Personal insults aside, do you really expect them to leave at 8pm? What the fun hasn't started yet and you want me to go home?

Come on now, its like hbo mate, reruns and nothing but.

Feel free to come back at 8pm when you have been proved correct however.

I will gladly say "you were correct, I was wrong". Small price to pay for 'false' normalcy as you say.

[xminator]

There is absolutly nothing that indicate another long term standoff in Bangkok.

Nothing except their bloody fiery TRACK RECORD. How can they be trusted?

Black Songkran. The Burning of Bangkok. What more evidence do you need?

Next ...

There is also a track record of peacefull one day gatherings, so what is your point? You see what you want to see, and are afraid of your bubble expat life bursting. I can sympathize with how you feel, but its still a bubble.

[schmutzie]

I think the argument is that this is not a political gathering, but a "commemorative rally"...

Call it the way you want. The previous one was also "just a peaseful rally" - and you could clearly see the burned Central World on the twit pics above. Right behind those "peaceful protestors".

That is not the point. The point was to find an explanation as to how this could go ahead under SoE.

As a possible workaround, I and others are suggesting that this would be explained by referring to it as a "commemorative rally".

Nobody is saying it's not a political rally. Just trying to work out how it technically could be allowed under SoE.

Basically, it would have happened one way or the other.

[Jingthing]

There is absolutly nothing that indicate another long term standoff in Bangkok.

Nothing except their bloody fiery TRACK RECORD. How can they be trusted?

Black Songkran. The Burning of Bangkok. What more evidence do you need?

Next ...

There is also a track record of peacefull one day gatherings, so what is your point? You see what you want to see, and are afraid of your bubble expat life bursting. I can sympathize with how you feel, but its still a bubble.

I reckon some expats in Cambodia would have been cheering on the Khmer Rouge. Why are you personalizing this? That's absurd. The fact that they have had some peaceful events is meaningless, as their clear strategy is a revolution by any means necessary, including violence. It has been proven.

[xminator]

Personal insults aside, do you really expect them to leave at 8pm? What the fun hasn't started yet and you want me to go home?

Why expect something that is physically impossible. I expect people to start go home at or around the time, but you have to see this from the perspective of each individual. People will linger, and they will be highly visible due to their red colored clothing.

The questions is if you will wake up to redshirts still gathering in the same spot tomorrow morning. My guess is that you will not.

[rubl]

I think the argument is that this is not a political gathering, but a "commemorative rally"...

Call it the way you want. The previous one was also "just a peaseful rally" - and you could clearly see the burned Central World on the twit pics above. Right behind those "peaceful protestors".

That is not the point. The point was to find an explanation as to how this could go ahead under SoE.

As a possible workaround, I and others are suggesting that this would be explained by referring to it as a "commemorative rally".

Nobody is saying it's not a political rally. Just trying to work out how it technically could be allowed under SoE.

Basically, it would have happened one way or the other.

Maybe a bit pedantic, but it's a commemorative 'gathering', rallies not allowed.

Anyway the one at Ratchaprasong was agreed upon under certain conditions. The number of people having joined the gathering may be larger than expected and have caught both organizers and police off guard. The traffic chaos should not surprise, have only 50 people walking busy roads can give the same effect. So far so good, no real problems.

[xminator]

There is absolutly nothing that indicate another long term standoff in Bangkok.

Nothing except their bloody fiery TRACK RECORD. How can they be trusted?

Black Songkran. The Burning of Bangkok. What more evidence do you need?

Next ...

There is also a track record of peacefull one day gatherings, so what is your point? You see what you want to see, and are afraid of your bubble expat life bursting. I can sympathize with how you feel, but its still a bubble.

I reckon some expats in Cambodia would have been cheering on the Khmer Rouge. Why are you personalizing this? That's absurd. The fact that they have had some peaceful events is meaningless, as their clear strategy is a revolution by any means necessary, including violence. It has been proven.

Then lets call that "the thai way", because the red shirt opposition have their own track record. A military coup - you know the one that is the agenda today - and a couple of airport occupations.

[Jingthing]

Oh no, the airport card! Time to run for the hills, as the airport card seems to justify ANYTHING from the redheads.

[rubl]

"Redshirts In front of the being built, ctw" ( http://twitpic.com/2pxeiv )

Remember this commemorative gathering is for the May 19th activities.

[hammered]

Does anyone ever have a rally to remember all those murdered in the drug war? Or do NGOs and activists just turn a blind eye to that tragic history that saw the largest number of civilians killed in recent Thai history.

Why does it seem some things are remembered while others are not?

[Jingthing]

Does anyone ever have a rally to remember all those murdered in the drug war? Or do NGOs and activists just turn a blind eye to that tragic history that saw the largest number of civilians killed in recent Thai history.

Why does it seem some things are remembered while others are not?

Politics and Thaksin's money. I can't see him paying for a rally to remember the drug war victims of, let me check, HIMSELF.

[rubl]

Does anyone ever have a rally to remember all those murdered in the drug war? Or do NGOs and activists just turn a blind eye to that tragic history that saw the largest number of civilians killed in recent Thai history.

Why does it seem some things are remembered while others are not?

Politics and Thaksin's money. I can't see him paying for a rally to remember the drug war victims of, let me check, HIMSELF.

If I'm to believe what was twittered, the reds had no budget for red balloons. A factory is selling them now for THB20 a piece, expecting to sell 3000 or more.

[webfact]

Red Shirts return to Ratchaprasong: Skytrain, subway services normal but alert protest memorial

BANGKOK: -- Slow- to non-moving traffic is reported from Rajprasong and the Sunday Red Shirt activities proceed, however peacefully.

Both Skytrain elevated railway and underground train services in the Thai capital are operating normally Sunday but on alert as anti-government protesters hold activities to commemorate the fourth anniversary of the September 2006 coup which removed the government of then prime minister Thaksin Shinawatra, and the four months that have passed since the crackdown against the April-May Red Shirt protesters, mass transit executives said.

Anat Arbhabhirama, president and chief executive officer of the Bangkok Mass Transit System (BTS) Skytrain, said its service which passes through Ratchaprasong where Red Shirt protesters of the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) are holding a mass gathering, is continuing

as usual.

However, the firm is coordinating closely with the Centre for the Resolution of the Emergency Situation (CRES) and would inform it of any impact on services which might occur due to the demonstration, Dr Anat said.

Security at BTS stations has been boosted and BTS management will consider later whether to temporarily halt services if the situation worsens, he said.

Meanwhile, Ronnachit Yamsa-ad, deputy governor of Bangkok Metro Pcl which operates the MRT subway, said the number of security personnel at every of its station had increased although it is a Sunday.

Closed-circuit television is installed at every station while searches are made on passengers and the situation is being closely monitored, Mr Ronnachit said.

UDD activists, also known as ‘Red Shirts’ and staunch supporters of MrThaksin now living in self-imposed exile overseas, are scheduled to tie 100,000 pieces of red cloth around Ratchaprasong intersection, release red balloons, write condolences on 10,000 pieces of paper for those killed or wounded during the military's operations to retake the protest area on May 19 and light red candles in the afternoon.

Ratchaprasong, Bangkok’s prime business area, was a scene of death and disorder four months ago when security personnel moved against the UDD protesters.

Eighty-nine persons were killed, and at least 1,900 were wounded during the two months of confrontations before the protest ended on May 19.

By Sunday afternoon, traffic in the area was virtually closed to traffic as large number of protesters turned up and participated at the event leaving only a single lane of traffic passing through in both directions.

Police have urged UDD protesters not to block traffic in the area, refrain from using loud speakers and to cease activities before dark out of concern that ill-intentioned persons might instigate violence. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2010-09-19

[rubl]

Just curious. I read nothing about UDD leaders (as far as not incarcerated), PTP MP's and the like showing solidarity with the commemorative gathering at Ratchaprasong. Does that mean all went to ChiangMai where there is no SoE and political rallies are allowed ?

The red-shirts here are probably from Bangkok then. The last elections showed there many in some suburbs. They may be a bit more independent of UDD and K. Thaksin as well?

[otherstuff1957]

That is a very good question. Although the Redshirt movement was founded by political mercenaries working for exPM Thaksin, it may have finally grown into a genuine grassroots movement. If this is indeed the case, I wonder what the reactions of the UDD leaders will be if the 'genuine' Redshirts start getting bigger crowds? I wouldn't be surprised if a few blackshirts show up and try to incite a little violence in the midst of crowds like the one at Ratchaprasong now.

I forgot to add: If they are a homegrown crowd of unpaid Redshirt backers, they will probably leave sometime tonight because they will have to go to work in the morning! If, however, they are being paid, they will certainly still be there tomorrow morning.

Edited September 19, 2010 by otherstuff1957

[hanuman1]

Just curious. I read nothing about UDD leaders (as far as not incarcerated), PTP MP's and the like showing solidarity with the commemorative gathering at Ratchaprasong. Does that mean all went to ChiangMai where there is no SoE and political rallies are allowed ?

The red-shirts here are probably from Bangkok then. The last elections showed there many in some suburbs. They may be a bit more independent of UDD and K. Thaksin as well?

Having walked around the municipal stadium area in Chiang Mai today, which is the focal point of the red gathering here, I was surprised to see the relative lack of merchandise with Taksin's face on it. I could only find a couple of stalls among about a hundred which had this. All the rest had either Jatuporn on it or were the generic 'I am Red' variations.

Before all the so-called 'red bashers' jump in, of course this doesn't necessarily mean Taksin isn't funding everything, but if I'm not much mistaken it does appear to be some kind of attempt to distance him from the red shirt movement.

[rubl]

Just curious. I read nothing about UDD leaders (as far as not incarcerated), PTP MP's and the like showing solidarity with the commemorative gathering at Ratchaprasong. Does that mean all went to ChiangMai where there is no SoE and political rallies are allowed ?

The red-shirts here are probably from Bangkok then. The last elections showed there many in some suburbs. They may be a bit more independent of UDD and K. Thaksin as well?

Having walked around the municipal stadium area in Chiang Mai today, which is the focal point of the red gathering here, I was surprised to see the relative lack of merchandise with Taksin's face on it. I could only find a couple of stalls among about a hundred which had this. All the rest had either Jatuporn on it or were the generic 'I am Red' variations.

Before all the so-called 'red bashers' jump in, of course this doesn't necessarily mean Taksin isn't funding everything, but if I'm not much mistaken it does appear to be some kind of attempt to distance him from the red shirt movement.

Sorry, nitpicking. The last sentence I would write "red-shirt distancing themselves from k. Thaksin'.

[IAMSOBAD]

Tomorrow all the working poor from the north will be constantly complaining in BKK that they have no farang customers!

Why farang not come spend money???

Will be heard for the next 4 months and then reds will have another "gathering"! Repeat history Thai style.

Dont bother explaining to them why farang will go to more peaceful holiday places... They just dont get it.