Pigs 101 (A Start)

[IsaanAussie]

Guinnea Fowl, of course! How stupid and to think I could have filled the pickup with a flock a few weeks ago... darn it! Wonder how they go chasing off the neighbourhood chickens?

As you might have read here BuckWheat, I keep Durocs as well. Sounds like our operations are pretty much a parallel.

[Brabo]

IA,

I 've send an SMS to Sam with further info about this boar, but didn't get any reaction.

Guess he doesn't want to sell after all ...

Is anyone interested in a purebreed Pietrain boar (around 200 kg). You have to be quick as the owner needs to sell NOW. I would buy this pig if I had an eye for the breed.

Coxy, I have four Durocs boars at that weight if you want one of those.

Edited November 12, 2012 by Brabo

[IsaanAussie]

IA,

I 've send an SMS to Sam with further info about this boar, but didn't get any reaction.

Guess he doesn't want to sell after all ...

Seems it was a wild goose chase, sorry about that. Still it was good to catch up again. Glad the little guy is behaving himself.

[randysavage]

what does it cost to feed a pig from piglet to finish using betagro or other pig feeds.

[IsaanAussie]

what does it cost to feed a pig from piglet to finish using betagro or other pig feeds.

RS,

There is no single number. I have posted charts on the quantities my pigs consume per feed stage here several times. Excuse me if I ask you to search for them. The per grade bag prices depend on where you are. As a start I use a feed conversion ratio of 2.6 which I have achieved consistently for 4 years. That is, a pig will eat 260 kg of feed to reach 100 kg. But my sty is a low walled and not an evaporative fan forced one, many people will get better figures than me. I am essentially a breeder not a grower. It all makes a difference

[humblefalang]

what does it cost to feed a pig from piglet to finish using betagro or other pig feeds.

RS,

There is no single number. I have posted charts on the quantities my pigs consume per feed stage here several times. Excuse me if I ask you to search for them. The per grade bag prices depend on where you are. As a start I use a feed conversion ratio of 2.6 which I have achieved consistently for 4 years. That is, a pig will eat 260 kg of feed to reach 100 kg. But my sty is a low walled and not an evaporative fan forced one, many people will get better figures than me. I am essentially a breeder not a grower. It all makes a difference

Never mind my question on the feed quantities on the PIG POO AND FLIES FORUM IssanAussie.

will look too.

[Brabo]

IA,

I 've send an SMS to Sam with further info about this boar, but didn't get any reaction.

Guess he doesn't want to sell after all ...

Seems it was a wild goose chase, sorry about that. Still it was good to catch up again. Glad the little guy is behaving himself.

No problem

[randysavage]

didnt mean to push your buttons i was just asking for a rough estimate,

[IsaanAussie]

didnt mean to push your buttons i was just asking for a rough estimate,

No offence taken, no buttons pushed. The point is there is no easy answer. If you want an "idea" of cost say between 3,500 and 4.000 baht

[randysavage]

thankyou issan aussie thats a hard game you do raising pigs hats off to you and other pig farmers, i wish you all well

[IsaanAussie]

thankyou issan aussie thats a hard game you do raising pigs hats off to you and other pig farmers, i wish you all well

Any form of animal husbandry involves work, especially when the animals are confined. Commercially not rewarding at the moment for most of us, but there are other things in life then money. Pigs are fun to be around. Thanks of behalf of all of us for the kind thought.

[IsaanAussie]

http://en.engormix.com/MA-pig-industry/health/articles/porcine-herd-health-management-t2368/165-p0.htm

Take the time to read the article linked here. PRRS is now endemic in Thailand. If you are unlucky and it arrives at your farm then learn how to deal with it. So far I have been lucky but I remain a boy scout and try to be prepared.

[MrChangers]

http://en.engormix.c...2368/165-p0.htm

Take the time to read the article linked here. PRRS is now endemic in Thailand. If you are unlucky and it arrives at your farm then learn how to deal with it. So far I have been lucky but I remain a boy scout and try to be prepared.

Thanks IA very worthy article.

[humblefalang]

http://en.engormix.c...2368/165-p0.htm

Take the time to read the article linked here. PRRS is now endemic in Thailand. If you are unlucky and it arrives at your farm then learn how to deal with it. So far I have been lucky but I remain a boy scout and try to be prepared.

Thanks IA very worthy article.

indeed a good read,

thanks for sharing

knowledge is power

a shot in the air

would someone please try to help get the phone number or adress of the betagro slaughter house in khon kaen.

i just cant find it on the net,

but they do have a new plant there.

Thanks in advance

[revar]

Bought 7 40kg pigs (see photo) today. Went to look for 15-20 kg but they wanted 1300-1500 for them. Although that is normally a good price it is hard to make a profit on them with the current low kg price and high feed prices. Just when I was going the sellwr said ' or you can buy 40kg pigs for 2000 bath. Its a shame only 7 fit in my car and I don't have much cash. But as soon as I have some I will be back.

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[IsaanAussie]

If you ever spot Durocs at that weight and price, they are mine.

[MrChangers]

Good morning all,

as there has been a few questions from people about starting to raise pigs I have done a quick note. Any comments are welcome and I do mean any.

NatFirst timer.pdf

Edited November 21, 2012 by MrChangers

[sezze]

Good morning all,

as there has been a few questions from people about starting to raise pigs I have done a quick note. Any comments are welcome and I do mean any.

NatFirst timer.pdf

Very nice made up document . I however fail to see the food costs of this first batch . The stables stay good for more then a few batches , so in your case ( as in many ) the costs involved are not to be taken into account ( if you want luxury , with evap cooling etc , then costs will rise considerably and is to be taken into account ) . So how many profit you made on this first batch , building not included ? or did you make a loss ?

[IsaanAussie]

Good morning all,

as there has been a few questions from people about starting to raise pigs I have done a quick note. Any comments are welcome and I do mean any.

NatFirst timer.pdf

Absolutely brilliant take for a first timer, my hat is off to you Changers.

Edited November 21, 2012 by IsaanAussie

[IsaanAussie]

Very nice made up document . I however fail to see the food costs of this first batch . The stables stay good for more then a few batches , so in your case ( as in many ) the costs involved are not to be taken into account ( if you want luxury , with evap cooling etc , then costs will rise considerably and is to be taken into account ) . So how many profit you made on this first batch , building not included ? or did you make a loss ?

Allow me to answer this. Over the last year the prices of feed have gone up and pig prices have gone down. Four years ago my fully amortised business plan relied on pig sales at 55 baht/kg and base feed costs where at 260 baht per bag. Up until the last few weeks sales are lower priced and the same bag of feed in now 340 baht. My investment and sty is somewhat different but it does not matter, there is no way that growing pigs out this year can show an unencumbered profit. Cash management is the only game in town.

[revar]

MrChangers,

Great document and great farm for a first timer (or even for a more experienced one).

I have a couple of questions, comments and and suggestions.

Questiion1 : How many pigs in a pen? I seem to remember you had more then 40 pigs. with 3 3x3m pens this seems very much. I keep a maximum of 12 pigs in my 4x4 pens but prefer 8-10 since this allows them to shit in one place and rest in another even when they are around 100kg..This makes cleaning a lot easier (half the time).

A too small pen also limits their growth. My first pens atmy old farm were 3x3 as well and with \\12 pigs in them they did not grow very fast or big while with 8 pigs they did great.

ROOF QUESTIONS:

Question 2: For my farm the wood for the roof is the most expensive part. But I don’t seem to see it on your chart. If it is the 950 and 200 bath. that’s extremely cheap. I would expect several thousand bath even if the pens are 3-3 only.

Question 3: What did you use for roofing. Corrugated tin works but is hot. this limits their feed intake.I use ‘kabungs’ . concrete panels.

One of the reasons that I can grow pigs to 100kg in 120 days is that my design and effort are focused on keeping the pigs cool. Hot days do not effect their intake very much.

Comment: Your roof has a nice slope. I had to raise my first units roof on one side because it didn’t slope enough. Costly mistake.

Question 4: How do you get rid of the waste water/pigpoo. I have a gutter along the back of the pens leading to 14 concrete storage units which are either pumped empty if people want this for their fields or piped into an uncles rice fields. From the picture it looks like the roof is not protruding much at the back. if so the rain from the roof would get into the gutter and fill up your waste storage tanks.

WALL

Your farm is reasonably well protected from the wind by trees. Because of this the slits between the blocks are a good idea to increase ventilation. My farm is in open rice fields. In that case you should not have =slits at lower levels because wind will come through and it will cause drafts. Pigs and especially piglets are very susceptible to colds and lung problems. If you have small piglets I would suggest bricking up the lower slits.

I had openings between the pens as well but have bricked them up. The problem is that if you have a sick pig in one pen the opening allows the nose of the sick pig to come in contact with the pigs in the next pen and transfer the sickness.

I Use ‘Saleng’ as well. Closing it in the evening or when there is a lot of wind. In addition I also use mosquito netting which is closed in the evening. I would strongly advice this since the pigs can get sick from mosquito bites.It will also help to keep flies, other insects and birds away.

FLOOR

I assume it has a nice slopeto make cleaning easy.

DRINKING WATER.

How do you store the drinking water for the pigs?

I use 2000 Liter red urns which are auto-fed from the village water system. Make sure you have enough storage capacity for a few days of water if you don’t have an alternative water source. I now have a borehole but when I didn’t I had to truck in water when the village water tower broke down for 4 days.

CLEANING

If you don’t have one I suggest to get a borehole drilled and pump. THis will make cleaning a lot faster and provides an alternative water supply.

DRUGS

I can relate. I had the same experience the first time I had to inject. But now I am the unofficial village vet . Don’t be afraid. If you have medicine related questions please PM me.

OVERALL

I am very impressed with this first effort. You are further with your first try then I was with my second effort. Please don’t take my comments as criticism. I learned a lot from this forum especially from old hands like IA and RBH. I believe that sharing our information and experiences will make us all better so I contribute regularly to the forum even when I am not as experienced as they are..

[MrChangers]

MrChangers,

Great document and great farm for a first timer (or even for a more experienced one).

I have a couple of questions, comments and and suggestions.

Questiion1 : How many pigs in a pen? I seem to remember you had more then 40 pigs. with 3 3x3m pens this seems very much. I keep a maximum of 12 pigs in my 4x4 pens but prefer 8-10 since this allows them to shit in one place and rest in another even when they are around 100kg..This makes cleaning a lot easier (half the time).

A too small pen also limits their growth. My first pens atmy old farm were 3x3 as well and with \\12 pigs in them they did not grow very fast or big while with 8 pigs they did great.

Revar noticed your posting about 8 per pen and next Thursday/Friday the concrete is going down for the mirror image so piggery Pt 2, 6 pens 41 pigs = 6.66 pigs per pen. Well ok I won't be chopping them up. Hope this will take 3 days BUT the rice has been cut and the locals are having a Full Lao Koa breakfast everyday.

ROOF QUESTIONS:

Question 2: For my farm the wood for the roof is the most expensive part. But I don’t seem to see it on your chart. If it is the 950 and 200 bath. that’s extremely cheap. I would expect several thousand bath even if the pens are 3-3 only.

The wood was to support the tin roof so answer fro 3 as well. Will look into the concrete panels, thanks for the tip.

Question 3: What did you use for roofing. Corrugated tin works but is hot. this limits their feed intake.I use ‘kabungs’ . concrete panels.

One of the reasons that I can grow pigs to 100kg in 120 days is that my design and effort are focused on keeping the pigs cool. Hot days do not effect their intake very much.

At present my wife hose showers twice a day during the mid-day heat BUT ...... I have got my mind set on a piggy shower unit, easy to make, just need to find the time to prototype a couple of outlet ideas.

Comment: Your roof has a nice slope. I had to raise my first units roof on one side because it didn’t slope enough. Costly mistake.

Question 4: How do you get rid of the waste water/pigpoo. I have a gutter along the back of the pens leading to 14 concrete storage units which are either pumped empty if people want this for their fields or piped into an uncles rice fields. From the picture it looks like the roof is not protruding much at the back. if so the rain from the roof would get into the gutter and fill up your waste storage tanks.

Piggy poo patrol happens during first and last feed. The goodies are transported in an expensive bucket to my compost area with a splash of EM. The field that had rice is going to be ploughed and vegetables grown under cover, so cheap fertilizer. Will sell any at 25 Baht a bag if and when.

Fluids are flushed down the alley into a large PVC pipe and sent into brother-in-law's field behind the trees.

WALL

Your farm is reasonably well protected from the wind by trees. Because of this the slits between the blocks are a good idea to increase ventilation. My farm is in open rice fields. In that case you should not have =slits at lower levels because wind will come through and it will cause drafts. Pigs and especially piglets are very susceptible to colds and lung problems. If you have small piglets I would suggest bricking up the lower slits.

I had openings between the pens as well but have bricked them up. The problem is that if you have a sick pig in one pen the opening allows the nose of the sick pig to come in contact with the pigs in the next pen and transfer the sickness.

Good point Revar noted thanks!

I Use ‘Saleng’ as well. Closing it in the evening or when there is a lot of wind. In addition I also use mosquito netting which is closed in the evening. I would strongly advice this since the pigs can get sick from mosquito bites.It will also help to keep flies, other insects and birds away.

Another good point on the mosquitoes thanks. I was going to use the white 25mm square plastic Saleng to keep the chickens at bay but since one had a close escape from the porkers they seem to keep their distance.

FLOOR

I assume it has a nice slopeto make cleaning easy.

Floor falls from South east to North west so the flow is good.

DRINKING WATER.

How do you store the drinking water for the pigs?

I use 2000 Liter red urns which are auto-fed from the village water system. Make sure you have enough storage capacity for a few days of water if you don’t have an alternative water source. I now have a borehole but when I didn’t I had to truck in water when the village water tower broke down for 4 days.

We have mains BUT I am going to be using a big plastic unit when I get my EM brewed so the pigs get a better balance of that. Saying that we had an outage of 12 hours last night/this morning and improvised using some old round concrete feeders.

CLEANING

If you don’t have one I suggest to get a borehole drilled and pump. THis will make cleaning a lot faster and provides an alternative water supply.

As previous have mains but not happy with the tap and tube set up. I want a "Hoselock" system with variable spray end but not sure if they have them here. Makro had a jet wash for under 3,000 on Saturday but a, was not sure the pigs would like it. b, didn't have the cash on me. c, could see the place being turned into a bike wash by the son.

DRUGS

I can relate. I had the same experience the first time I had to inject. But now I am the unofficial village vet . Don’t be afraid. If you have medicine related questions please PM me.

OVERALL

I am very impressed with this first effort. You are further with your first try then I was with my second effort. Please don’t take my comments as criticism. I learned a lot from this forum especially from old hands like IA and RBH. I believe that sharing our information and experiences will make us all better so I contribute regularly to the forum even when I am not as experienced as they are..

I asked for critique as that is a way to learn and these comments are most helpful.

Thanks Revar.

Nat

[MrChangers]

Good morning all,

as there has been a few questions from people about starting to raise pigs I have done a quick note. Any comments are welcome and I do mean any.

NatFirst timer.pdf

Very nice made up document . I however fail to see the food costs of this first batch . The stables stay good for more then a few batches , so in your case ( as in many ) the costs involved are not to be taken into account ( if you want luxury , with evap cooling etc , then costs will rise considerably and is to be taken into account ) . So how many profit you made on this first batch , building not included ? or did you make a loss ?

Sezze,

Thanks for the comment, I wrote it on the back of my pick-up after cleaning the pigs.

Firstly if I made a profit from 8 pigs to fund the new building this discussion would be empty as suitors would be asking my hand in marriage and fighting to the death on my door step to accrue the knowledge as to how I did it.

I did not include the exact costs as there are too many variables due to people trying to interfere with feeding duck food into the mix, Grandma giving advice as this is the way they have always done it, changing of feeds, someone feeding the chickens the pig food, ad nausea. This destroys the formula mathematically.

That was then, this is now.

What I will say is this:

Being green I had to learn fast and that meant looking after my pigs in the middle of the night when the rain was lashing down to secure extra cover as needed. The wife and myself being there to sing to the pigs when they are scared (music works during feeding too so try it, my pigs love a bit of Euphoria). You cannot put money on that, or when the water supply fails, to improvise, to find water supplies.

Each to his own, I have run major projects in the UK but none of that bears any significance to farming. It is not a case of “We are at point X we should have Y”. You have to add a lot of contingency into the plan.

With any major project there is a learning curve and only the individual will appreciate it, also, tooling set up is the most important and expensive. Hence, uncle Biffo erecting a pile of rubble = a waste of money. Trying to explain that cheap today means expensive tomorrow has been a battle but I think it has finally got through.

I did manage to make about 526 Baht (well the spreadsheet shows) deficit with my first attempt but experience gained is something you cannot put a price on. I have killed and butchered a pig and that was not in list of jobs to do when I left school 30 odd years ago. Now have 40 very happy pigs in the pens and hope to have more.

Ask any of the old salts on this great knowledge portal and they will say the same:

Knowledge is gained by reading the small print, experience is gained by not.

Or in Piggy world: Shit happens when you least need it.

Getting bored of mossie coils and if anyone can tell me in Thai or English or both, the Lemongrass to grow around the pens, as I hear they repel mosquitoes, I will be in your debt for ever! (I read and write Thai a bit)

Not meant as a beef but an honest answer to your question, there is no easy answer or we would all be the owners of CP.

Anyway on a brighter note I'm off to the market to sell pigs ears as silk purses to tourists :-)

Nat

[revar]

Singing with pigs. Maybe you can sell the formula to tv producers.

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[RedBullHorn]

There're two type of lemon grass, only one of them produce same chemical property use to produce Baygon and other brands mozzies repellent... I forgotten the Thai name... I'll ask~

[IsaanAussie]

I have to say I am loving reading these posts. So many things listed that I spent ages trying to decide on, roof walls etc...

For instance, I used steel trusses instead of timber because it was cheaper, lighter and stronger. I used corrugated iron sheeting and it does not make the pen hot, it actually adds to the ventilation causing a draft from the exterior into the centre and up to the mission roof. I use a bore and a 1" piston pump to lift water into 4 by 1,000 litre tanks, from there gravity feed. Pump it once. So I can run 4 or 5 days without power and still have water for the pigs. At the farthest end it delivers about a litre per second when the tanks are full. I use septic tanks and the treated water runs into a soak field. Someone wants to buy it, I want to fertiliser my pond or garden then I pump the effluent out, otherwise it just soaks away.

Accommodation for the pigs, my rule of thumb is 1.5 sq metres per 100kg pig. My pens are 3 by 5 metres. Wow, batches of 10 per pen.

Like I said this is great, I would love to come have a look and you are welcome here.

[revar]

Agreed, I love to read these contibutions. Being a farang in a small village means a risk of fealing lonely- not understood. Especially when you can't get your wife to understand your point. Pigs 101 is a perfect antidote. And I have learned 70+% of what I think I know about piggeries from here!

One comment om the roofing.

As far as I remember IA's roof is very high which makes the corrigated tin a good option. MrChangers roof is a lot lower, comparable with mine. Kabuangs make a big difference. At one stage on the past I had a mix and the ground temperatures under kabuang were 9 degrees celcous lower then under the tin roof. If measured directly under the roof the difference could be over 20 degrees celcius.

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[revar]

With the curreny high feed prices alternatives are interesting. I find this fao document very interesting. Corn , casave sugercane are all crops I cultivate here. Anyone has experimanted with these?

http://www.fao.org/docrep/003/w3647e/W3647E01.htm

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[IsaanAussie]

With the curreny high feed prices alternatives are interesting. I find this fao document very interesting. Corn , casave sugercane are all crops I cultivate here. Anyone has experimanted with these?

http://www.fao.org/d...7e/W3647E01.htm

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Yes I have looked very hard at a number of FAO documents and others on farm produced feeds. I have also experimented with pellet trials made from alternate feed materials. But in my situation it has always come back to the same position. I dont have the right land to grow year round crops for feed or enough to produce the volume required. If I buy the materials then the savings are minimal and require added equipment, storage facilities etc...

The closest I have come are a series of sweet potatoe based diets from Vietnam. I can use the roots and vines and the crop is grown in 3 months. Peanuts and sunflowers for oil and then seed meal.

But I will keep looking, or more correctly with todays cereal price trends and our climate changes, I have to keep looking.

Edited November 22, 2012 by IsaanAussie

[IsaanAussie]

Hey Revar, I have just been reading the bit on sugar cane juice and it reminded me of what I was told by a guy in the Philippines who used it as the basis of his feeds. He tried to ferment the juice with other things including Urea and apparently the result was piglets that became completely disoriented. He thought he had poisoned them, but no, they were just p1ssed out of their trees.