Honda Cbr 250R 2011

[newf]

Chasing around a couple CBR250 at thailand circuit

[thaicbr]

Spending 30-50k modding a new ninjette would be crazy when there are 1 yr old 650s for virtually the same price. Spending 150k or so on an overweight, under torqued, choked up 250 that's a dog under 9000rpm in this market doesn't add up.

Which is why I own a couple 650's instead of 250's...

BUT a 250 would be an inexpensive and fun track toy. (as are the 650's)

But 250 is really small for touring or riding two up. For anything other than track I'd choose a bigger bike. If I had to ride in the city I'd get a scooter or a motard.

For a 250 track toy it'll take a fair bit of money and mods to create a CB"r" 250 that can compete with a Ninjette at the track.

Exactly. I've also got a bigger bike that I use for touring but I love the little Ninja so much that I can't bear to sell it (considered it a few times but couldn't do it). It's a blast to ride around the city and when the current project finishes I'll get round to using it for some track days, for which it's clearly superior to the CBR and far less hassle than the Honda if it ends up cartwheeling down the track. I wouldn't fancy going back to some cowboys that fleeced me on the original sale and asking them to rebuild a bike they'd never been trained to work on. I can only imagine the headaches that would be involved compared to dropping it off at Kawasaki and collecting it a few days later.

So am I regretting buying it when I could have waited 3 years and got a toned down version from APe Honda for 20-30k cheaper? Course not.

Having said that, bike availability has come a long way since I bought in August 2008. If I was buying now I wouldn't consider either 250. 120-130k for a CBR and then 20k on mods will get you a used ER6n. Either 250 doesn't make sense now unless you're a new rider or ride solely in the city, in which case the CBR150 will do. Kawasaki changed the bike market in LOS and for that they deserve credit.

Jonny. I agree with most of what you say . But as I've stated before every body wants different things from a bike.

But yes... Kawasaki deserves the credit for having the balls to be the 1st into the market on big bikes (it was easier for them as they had next to no small bike market).

I'm buying the Cbr because it presses all the buttons for what i want a bike to do, Including the fact that it's a decent price..and i can buy it on credit.

ER6's for 140,000b really. Where? (cheapest i've seen is 165,000b)

I'm pretty sure that if you go to a MAIN Honda dealer they will be able to order the parts and fix the bike promptly. The same as if you went to a Kawasaki DEALER (you can not include Rama 9, as that's Kawasaki itself)

Any way. I will say again they are both good bikes. BUT they do have a different focus on use.

I really do wish people would STOP with the slagging off of each brand. They are both excellent bikes at a decent price available here in Thailand.

It would make a change to have some constructive comment on this page on modifications to the Cbr.. like there was on the Ninja thread when that came out.

PS: there are rumours of a make over for the Ninja next year.. that maybe interesting

PPS: green is mean, That's one of the old Kawa slogans... Stop being mean to the Cbr ...please

[SumetCycle]

Chasing around a couple CBR250 at thailand circuit

Wow, nice riding there. The CBRs seemed to handle really well on the turns. Were those professional riders?

[thaicbr]

Newf.. Thanks for that. I don't think i have anything on this Saturday so will come and watch... Can tell us the times that the practice and racing is going on...Thanks Allan

[newf]

Chasing around a couple CBR250 at thailand circuit

Wow, nice riding there. The CBRs seemed to handle really well on the turns. Were those professional riders?

It was the Moto3 guys practicing for their last race. The bikes have came along way since the first round of racing this year, 3+ sec was knocked off the top lap time just from the previous race. Might be a good place to check out what mods you can do to the CBR

[newf]

Newf.. Thanks for that. I don't think i have anything on this Saturday so will come and watch... Can tell us the times that the practice and racing is going on...Thanks Allan

The schedule for this weekend should be posted up on "Thailand Circuit motorsports complex" facebook page soon.

[biker Bob]

'Not saying that you couldn't afford the import big bikes, but you state that you left your CBR 600 in Japan (where bikes aren't cheap as for instance the CBR 250 is listed at 170-190 000 THB) and yet you kept your US mentality and "couldn't swallow the prices" which most people would take to mean that the quoted price was higher than you were prepared to pay and thus you couldn't afford it..' ~ Dave_Boo to Tony

I cannot agree with this single thought. I could buy a CBR 250R ABS tomorrow, but I can't swallow the price. I won't pay it to profiteers who almost certainly will charge me all the traffic will bear in all other things if the opportunity arises in the future. Similarly I won't pay protective import duties if any other similar bike avoids it (probably because the fix is in on beer imports and therefore beer prices). Certainly, my just setting up here in Thailand could figure in my thinking, but paying (coming from the U.S.) what seems far too much strikes me as meaning indignation more than it indicates practicality. I mean, hexl, this is e-mail.

But certainly if I argue that 30,000 baht is insignificant, I'm just doing whatever 'taking the piss' is in reverse - all over myself. Er, no, maybe that doesn't work. Perhaps I mean that I'd just be boasting - a bit.

The CBR ABS can still be found for 115,000-120,000 baht if you make a few phone calls which is the lowest price anywhere on the planet.

Yep, bought one yesterday and paid 114.000.

[JonnyF]

You're right Allan, actually as a very satisfied Kawasaki customer I was bored with all the CBR vs Ninja thing myself and was checking on the thread as a lurker who was interested to see what mods people were doing - but when someone like hehehoho keeps spouting nonsense then it's fair game to reply IMO.

I meant a 120-130k ABS model with 20-30k of mods - that's within spitting distance of a decent used ER6n which is a whole new level of bike.

[JonnyF]

FYI guys: Before the CBR 250 was released all authorized Honda dealers had to send at least one of their mechanics to AP Honda for training in servicing and repairing it. This is standard practice when a new model is released. Honda mechanics are just as trained and qualified as Kawasaki mechanics.

I suspect you haven't had a bike serviced at a Kawasaki main dealer. Having one of your mechanics attend a Thai training course is not really the same thing as what's going on over there, it's like you leave Thailand for an hour - you should go take a look.

As you're one of the dealers that's charging people 15k over RRP due to the supply shortage, I'm wondering whether you'll be doing the same thing on spare parts if they start to dry up - is it a different policy for spare parts sales as opposed to bike sales? And what happens in 6 months when the supply is back to normal and your customers come back and see the bike on the floor for 15k less than they paid? That isn't meant to be a flame by the way, I'm just interested in how/when this policy will be applied.

[skybluestu]

FYI guys: Before the CBR 250 was released all authorized Honda dealers had to send at least one of their mechanics to AP Honda for training in servicing and repairing it. This is standard practice when a new model is released. Honda mechanics are just as trained and qualified as Kawasaki mechanics.

I suspect you haven't had a bike serviced at a Kawasaki main dealer. Having one of your mechanics attend a Thai training course is not really the same thing as what's going on over there, it's like you leave Thailand for an hour - you should go take a look.

As you're one of the dealers that's charging people 15k over RRP due to the supply shortage, I'm wondering whether you'll be doing the same thing on spare parts if they start to dry up - is it a different policy for spare parts sales as opposed to bike sales? And what happens in 6 months when the supply is back to normal and your customers come back and see the bike on the floor for 15k less than they paid? That isn't meant to be a flame by the way, I'm just interested in how/when this policy will be applied.

I've heard about/read some very negative experiences at the Kawa dealer in CM whereas my, albeit limited, experience with Honda has so far been excellent.

Some good points raised about the 15k+ premium some dealers are charging and therefore giving AP Honda a bad name, will be interesting to see the reply Brian gives. I was also surprised at the labour costs at Sumet cycle, didn't I see 500baht to install a xenon light?! That must be a 1-2hr job at most! I asked how much at my Honda dealer today if I took them a xenon light/projector and they said 'mai pen rai', as I bought the bike from them it would be free, as was changing the tyres and exhaust

[dave_boo]

Spending 30-50k modding a new ninjette would be crazy when there are 1 yr old 650s for virtually the same price. Spending 150k or so on an overweight, under torqued, choked up 250 that's a dog under 9000rpm in this market doesn't add up.

Which is why I own a couple 650's instead of 250's...

BUT a 250 would be an inexpensive and fun track toy. (as are the 650's)

But 250 is really small for touring or riding two up. For anything other than track I'd choose a bigger bike. If I had to ride in the city I'd get a scooter or a motard.

For a 250 track toy it'll take a fair bit of money and mods to create a CB"r" 250 that can compete with a Ninjette at the track.

Hmm, the ABS version is found for 115 000 THB. Another ~15 000 THB with a slip-on will get you within 2.66 PS of RWHP from a Thai measured Ninja (+9% or 23.7 is what Two Brothers is claiming). Means you'll have some 20 000 THB to explore ways that it can compete with a 'Ninjette' at the track.

Funnily enough that's a greater percentage than what their slip on for the Ninja makes (which only offers an additional 7%). If, or when, they make a full system for the CBR and assuming that they make as much (perhaps even more) of an increase (+14%) with the CBR slip on that the Ninja slip on makes, you'd be looking at some 24.5 PS from the CBR. That ends up costing an extra 21 000 THB so that even with ABS you've still got some 15 000 THB in your pocket to get all of 1,5-2,5 PS out of the bike to simply match the Ninja's performance.

However that's not really fair for the Ninja though is it? I mean it doesn't have to deal with ABS cost, so if you purchase a non-ABS for RRP or even +5 000 THB you've actually got 24-29 000 THB to play with.

Biggest complaint from the Ninja detractors who have actually ridden the bike is the undersprung or dampened condition of the suspension. Racetech still hasn't come out with a fork kit for it yet, but since it's a 37mm with some 0,5mm less travel than the 'Ninja' has it shouldn't take too much. Figure some 3 000 THB for that plus install. Still a lot of money left over....

And as mentioned earlier in the thread, what's the longest straight that any track in LOS has? What's easier to ride fast? A bike that will torque out of corners or one that requires you to be rowing the gearbox like a spastic chicken?

Honest question since as you like to point out I am only a n00b rider...

**edit**

BTW that dyno run with the CBR was done on a bike that still had the shipping plastic covering the seats....

Edited June 15, 2011 by dave_boo

[br12stol]

I found a couple of dealers on edge of BKK who sell non ABS for 110,000, but in Sumets defence he did say he chucks in fully comp insurance 6k? also helmet and jacket for 115k maybe he could clarify what make and value the helmet and jacket are, also how much for the bike without the insurance helmet jacket

[JonnyF]

Honest answer to an honest question Dave, you keep the bike at high rpm in the meat of the powerband. There's a reason that the most successful sports bikes in superbikes and motogp are inline 4's. If the bike never drops below 8k rpm then it doesn't really matter what's below that (on the track as in your example).

It might be easier for a new rider to go fast on the CBR, same as my girlfriend could drive an Automatic Vios round a track faster than a manual Vios - it doesn't really prove anything other than the riders lack of experience/ability. We're not talking about 150hp engines here that are going to spit you off if your wrist twitches at the wrong time. It will take about an hour to work out how to get the most from a small bore higher revving/higher hp engine - and it will be an hour well spent.

Keeping a small cc bike singing through the gears at high rpm also happens to be a lot of fun, which is why most of us ride bikes in the first place isn't it? More fun that sticking it in third gear and chugging along like a diesel truck.

[edwinchester]

'Not saying that you couldn't afford the import big bikes, but you state that you left your CBR 600 in Japan (where bikes aren't cheap as for instance the CBR 250 is listed at 170-190 000 THB) and yet you kept your US mentality and "couldn't swallow the prices" which most people would take to mean that the quoted price was higher than you were prepared to pay and thus you couldn't afford it..' ~ Dave_Boo to Tony

I cannot agree with this single thought. I could buy a CBR 250R ABS tomorrow, but I can't swallow the price. I won't pay it to profiteers who almost certainly will charge me all the traffic will bear in all other things if the opportunity arises in the future. Similarly I won't pay protective import duties if any other similar bike avoids it (probably because the fix is in on beer imports and therefore beer prices). Certainly, my just setting up here in Thailand could figure in my thinking, but paying (coming from the U.S.) what seems far too much strikes me as meaning indignation more than it indicates practicality. I mean, hexl, this is e-mail.

But certainly if I argue that 30,000 baht is insignificant, I'm just doing whatever 'taking the piss' is in reverse - all over myself. Er, no, maybe that doesn't work. Perhaps I mean that I'd just be boasting - a bit.

The CBR ABS can still be found for 115,000-120,000 baht if you make a few phone calls which is the lowest price anywhere on the planet.

Yep, bought one yesterday and paid 114.000.

Hi Bob, can you share the name and location of your dealer? Thanks.

[hehehoho]

but when someone like hehehoho keeps spouting nonsense then it's fair game to reply IMO.

Linky?

I meant a 120-130k ABS model with 20-30k of mods - that's within spitting distance of a decent used ER6n which is a whole new level of bike.

As that's the price of a stock ninjette I'm not sure what your point is. No one buy a 250 but go for a used er6n?

So people can get an ABS cbr (115k) with 2 bros slip on for 130k, sure you'll be 2.6(?) hp less than the ninjette but how much lighter will it be, almost 15kg? Torque comparison is laughable given the porky's numbers. And the torque to weight ratio?

Add some nice tyres for another 10k and still have some nice change left for suspension before you hit the choked-up porky's overpriced RRP.

Edited June 15, 2011 by hehehoho

[dave_boo]

Honest answer to an honest question Dave, you keep the bike at high rpm in the meat of the powerband. There's a reason that the most successful sports bikes in superbikes and motogp are inline 4's. If the bike never drops below 8k rpm then it doesn't really matter what's below that (on the track as in your example).

It might be easier for a new rider to go fast on the CBR, same as my girlfriend could drive an Automatic Vios round a track faster than a manual Vios - it doesn't really prove anything other than the riders lack of experience/ability. We're not talking about 150hp engines here that are going to spit you off if your wrist twitches at the wrong time. It will take about an hour to work out how to get the most from a small bore higher revving/higher hp engine - and it will be an hour well spent.

Keeping a small cc bike singing through the gears at high rpm also happens to be a lot of fun, which is why most of us ride bikes in the first place isn't it? More fun that sticking it in third gear and chugging along like a diesel truck.

World Superbike Manufacturer Championship

2001 Ducati

2002 Ducati

2003 Ducati

2004 Ducati

2005 Suzuki

2006 Ducati

2007 Yamaha

2008 Ducati

2009 Ducati

2010 Aprilia

Seems to me that the most successful bikes in WSB in the last decade have actually been "L" engined. Granted MotoGP is strictly Honda/Yamaha territory, but it's rare that any of Ducati's bikes are beaten in the straights; it seems that their cornering abilities and riders have been problematic.

I will give that some enjoy the buzz of keeping an engine up in the RPM range to get any go out of it along with frantically downshifting when trying to apex along with braking just right since their engine provides no braking. There are others that like getting the (for the class) grunt that slingshots you out of a corner that you had just shifted down a single gear and allowed the engine braking to take effect while you may have to feather the clutch to control the amount of 'woah' instead of feathering the clutch coming out to keep the engine in power.

Kinda the difference between an American big block V-8 and a turbo'd inline four making comparative power. Which one is more appealing is more of a personal decision I guess.

[BigBikeBKK]

Chasing around a couple CBR250 at thailand circuit

Awesome vid C!

The Honda CBR 250's racing in the Thai Moto3 series are nothing like the stockers.

They've done some amazing things with those bikes and some of them are wicked fast!

[BigBikeBKK]

And as mentioned earlier in the thread, what's the longest straight that any track in LOS has? What's easier to ride fast? A bike that will torque out of corners or one that requires you to be rowing the gearbox like a spastic chicken?

Honest question since as you like to point out I am only a n00b rider...

Um, yes, if you find yourself "rowing the gearbox like a spastic chicken" I'd have to agree that you are still a noob and that the CB"r" will probably be easier for you to ride.

The CB"r" and the Ninjette are very low powered bikes. The key to fast lap times on low power bikes is not "torquing" out of corners, it's staying in the power band and carrying speed THROUGH the corners, like this Ninjette at BIRA:

Some basic skills are required to take advantage of the superior power and handling of the Ninjette.

[CMX]

Good training film. And telling; them gloves ain't spastic.

However, I'll never be able to see a Ninjette again without laughing - "...rowing the gearbox like a spastic chicken...." Humorous exaggeration makes the point, taken in context. Torque ain't pork.

Incidentally, I saw about a fellow once, Stephen Hawking(?} that tends to indicate that even a paraplegic's facts, and math, are as valid, every time, as those of the most successful rider. Math rules, or we wouldn't have the bikes we have, or winning racetrack drivers who cannot multiply two x ten without a calculator.

Dave_Boo anticipated mathematically virtually every test result of CBR 250 performance that has been since confirmed every whichaway. Relative virtues of h.p. vs torque are as well known as the cost of following a fellow with a stupid high rear fender in the rain.

Edited June 15, 2011 by CMX

[dave_boo]

Chasing around a couple CBR250 at thailand circuit

Awesome vid C!

The Honda CBR 250's racing in the Thai Moto3 series are nothing like the stockers.

They've done some amazing things with those bikes and some of them are wicked fast!

Any inoformation forthcoming as to how they "are nothing like the stockers"? Because I'm seeing stock wheels, discs, callipers, forks (?), radiator, rear axle, etc. How much of this "wicked fast"-ness comes from simply opening the breathing up? You have posted quite a bit as to how the Honda is an underpowered slug and these bikes the Thais are racing are such a quantum leap forward why don't you elucidate upon it and share your wisdom with the forum?

And as mentioned earlier in the thread, what's the longest straight that any track in LOS has? What's easier to ride fast? A bike that will torque out of corners or one that requires you to be rowing the gearbox like a spastic chicken?

Honest question since as you like to point out I am only a n00b rider...

Um, yes, if you find yourself "rowing the gearbox like a spastic chicken" I'd have to agree that you are still a noob and that the CB"r" will probably be easier for you to ride.

The CB"r" and the Ninjette are very low powered bikes. The key to fast lap times on low power bikes is not "torquing" out of corners, it's staying in the power band and carrying speed THROUGH the corners, like this Ninjette at BIRA:

Some basic skills are required to take advantage of the superior power and handling of the Ninjette.

Sure, show a high speed track (which if I remember correctly the CBR hits the same or greater speed than a modified Ninja down the back straight) to illustrate your point. What of the other smaller tracks that litter Thailand? What of actual twistie riding, and I'm not talking about easy stuff like Phetchabun but rather down towards Umphang where 120+ degree turns rule and rider skill and tyre limits set the max speed that either bike will be able to take the corner? Would you rather have to be downshifting because after said turn you still have an uphill stretch or would you rather have the torque keep building and pull you up the incline? I'm talking 60 km/h max curves with a 15 degree incline afterwards. You would have to make sure that you were in 2nd for the Ninja and you'd be in 3rd for the CBR to ensure that both were in their powerbands. Accelerating to 80 up the incline would require an upshift with the Ninja and the CBR would still have some 1500 RPM to work with. Get it up to 100 (if the Ninja's lack of torque will allow it) and both bikes would be shifting into 4th. Downshift two for the Ninja for the next corner and a single gear for the CBR and wash, rinse, and repeat.

As you are so quick to point out, I am a noob, but doesn't shifting take precious time away from forward momentum? Isn't torque the actual force that propels the rear wheel and the more you have doing that the better? Or is your definition of a better race bike akin to NASCAR's definition of a better race car? Can go quickly around nice banked corners rather than pull out of a tight turn like a Formula car can?

**edit**

See you also clipped out part of my reply (which is a violation of forum rules). Was it because you were uncomfortable with the facts? Did you not which to discuss the fact that the torque filled engines actually do dominate at levels neither you nor I will ever be at?

Edited June 15, 2011 by dave_boo

[hehehoho]

The Honda CBR 250's racing in the Thai Moto3 series are nothing like the stockers.

They've done some amazing things with those bikes and some of them are wicked fast!

What have they done?

(not a smart ass question, just interested in what mods they've done)

[BigBikeBKK]

The Honda CBR 250's racing in the Thai Moto3 series are nothing like the stockers.

They've done some amazing things with those bikes and some of them are wicked fast!

What have they done?

(not a smart ass question, just interested in what mods they've done)

I don't know all of the mods, but here are some that I spotted: Aftermarket suspensions front and rear, aftermarket ECU's, injection Controllers and CDI's, modified airboxes, full system exhausts.

I suspect many have had heads ported and polished and are running modified cams.

[KRS1]

Sure, show a high speed track (which if I remember correctly the CBR hits the same or greater speed than a modified Ninja down the back straight) to illustrate your point. What of the other smaller tracks that litter Thailand? What of actual twistie riding, and I'm not talking about easy stuff like Phetchabun but rather down towards Umphang where 120+ degree turns rule and rider skill and tyre limits set the max speed that either bike will be able to take the corner? Would you rather have to be downshifting because after said turn you still have an uphill stretch or would you rather have the torque keep building and pull you up the incline? I'm talking 60 km/h max curves with a 15 degree incline afterwards. You would have to make sure that you were in 2nd for the Ninja and you'd be in 3rd for the CBR to ensure that both were in their powerbands. Accelerating to 80 up the incline would require an upshift with the Ninja and the CBR would still have some 1500 RPM to work with. Get it up to 100 (if the Ninja's lack of torque will allow it) and both bikes would be shifting into 4th. Downshift two for the Ninja for the next corner and a single gear for the CBR and wash, rinse, and repeat.

As you are so quick to point out, I am a noob, but doesn't shifting take precious time away from forward momentum? Isn't torque the actual force that propels the rear wheel and the more you have doing that the better? Or is your definition of a better race bike akin to NASCAR's definition of a better race car? Can go quickly around nice banked corners rather than pull out of a tight turn like a Formula car can?

**edit**

See you also clipped out part of my reply (which is a violation of forum rules). Was it because you were uncomfortable with the facts? Did you not which to discuss the fact that the torque filled engines actually do dominate at levels neither you nor I will ever be at?

Now that you know somewhat the tactics behind downshifting to put you in the sweetspot, now you have to learn to slip the clutch to give your bike an extra bump in acceleration.

If a bike is close enough to the sweetspot or about to fall out of it, you dont have to downshift at all - just pop the clutch, rev it to raise the rpm to lower resistance of inertial mass and let her loose.

Go out and ride! LEARN ! One day you will be a ninja, but for now you are still only grasshoppa....

(you've also been guilty of clipping out replies yourself)

[BigBikeBKK]

Sure, show a high speed track (which if I remember correctly the CBR hits the same or greater speed than a modified Ninja down the back straight) to illustrate your point. What of the other smaller tracks that litter Thailand? What of actual twistie riding, and I'm not talking about easy stuff like Phetchabun but rather down towards Umphang where 120+ degree turns rule and rider skill and tyre limits set the max speed that either bike will be able to take the corner? Would you rather have to be downshifting because after said turn you still have an uphill stretch or would you rather have the torque keep building and pull you up the incline? I'm talking 60 km/h max curves with a 15 degree incline afterwards. You would have to make sure that you were in 2nd for the Ninja and you'd be in 3rd for the CBR to ensure that both were in their powerbands. Accelerating to 80 up the incline would require an upshift with the Ninja and the CBR would still have some 1500 RPM to work with. Get it up to 100 (if the Ninja's lack of torque will allow it) and both bikes would be shifting into 4th. Downshift two for the Ninja for the next corner and a single gear for the CBR and wash, rinse, and repeat.

As you are so quick to point out, I am a noob, but doesn't shifting take precious time away from forward momentum? Isn't torque the actual force that propels the rear wheel and the more you have doing that the better? Or is your definition of a better race bike akin to NASCAR's definition of a better race car? Can go quickly around nice banked corners rather than pull out of a tight turn like a Formula car can?

**edit**

See you also clipped out part of my reply (which is a violation of forum rules). Was it because you were uncomfortable with the facts? Did you not which to discuss the fact that the torque filled engines actually do dominate at levels neither you nor I will ever be at?

So sorry for clipping your dyno charts Dave- no problem, from now on I'll quote your entire posts even though you've already posted those dyno chart pics showing the Ninette's power advantage more times than I can count.

I see you still haven't learned how to ride in the proper gear- no doubt that's one big source of frustration for you on your Ninjette. That and the fact that neither the Ninjette nor the CB"r" are designed to haul around someone as heavy as you.

Attached pic is a bit of an exaggeration, but only a bit

FYI, you should downshift when you are on the brakes- this way you are already in the proper gear when it's time to get back on the gas. Get it?

Actually, you are the one who keeps telling us you're a noob, and while you may be a math whiz, it's clear from your posts and MASSIVE chicken strips that you still don't know how to ride your bike.

Excluding go cart tracks like the BRC aren't all of Thailand's tracks "high speed"? And we had a good review a while back comparing Ninjette and CB"r" at the BRC that gave the Ninjette the win thanks to her superior handling that allows her to stay planted on that shitty track while the CB"r" wallows and chatters her way around the corners.

Why don't you and some of your CB"r" friends join us at Kaeng Krachan tomorrow and we'll see which bike is faster down the straights AND through the corners.

Happy Trails!

T

[RED21]

250cc comparison in last month's edition of Popular Mechanics...

[CMX]

The kiss of death - the Honda is safer!! The Ninja is more fun!!

Interesting to see zero to 50 mph, though, and their take on the Honda if the Ninja 125 cost more in the U.S. by $1500.

Edited June 16, 2011 by CMX

[marcusb]

good article Red, thanks for posting it.

[SumetCycle]

FYI guys: Before the CBR 250 was released all authorized Honda dealers had to send at least one of their mechanics to AP Honda for training in servicing and repairing it. This is standard practice when a new model is released. Honda mechanics are just as trained and qualified as Kawasaki mechanics.

I suspect you haven't had a bike serviced at a Kawasaki main dealer. Having one of your mechanics attend a Thai training course is not really the same thing as what's going on over there, it's like you leave Thailand for an hour - you should go take a look.

As you're one of the dealers that's charging people 15k over RRP due to the supply shortage, I'm wondering whether you'll be doing the same thing on spare parts if they start to dry up - is it a different policy for spare parts sales as opposed to bike sales? And what happens in 6 months when the supply is back to normal and your customers come back and see the bike on the floor for 15k less than they paid? That isn't meant to be a flame by the way, I'm just interested in how/when this policy will be applied.

I was just pointing out that Honda mechanics have recieved trianing on the repair and service of CBR. Some posters were making it sound as if Honda just dropped this bike on the dealers without any training for the mechanics.

You are comparing apples and oranges when you compare part prices to bike prices. There is no supply and demand pricing for parts. We have and will continue to have the same prices for CBR parts regardless of supply issues.

I believe the first R in RRP stands for recommended. If people think our prices are to high, they are free to shop around for around for a better price. This is how a capitalist free market economy works.

Also, we do sell the ABS model for 130,000, but provide first class insurance (6,660 value), registration, helmet (Nippon full face, TIS certified), and a jacket in that price. We also have English speaking staff to make the process of purchacing a new bike much easier and smoother.

Lastly, I'm sure that most people who have already bought the CBR realize that the prices are going to be dropping. I don't think it will be much of a surprise to them when they see lower prices in coming months.

[hehehoho]

Lastly, I'm sure that most people who have already bought the CBR realize that the prices are going to be dropping. I don't think it will be much of a surprise to them when they see lower prices in coming months.

Interestingly what Kawa in Australia recently had to do in order to sell the porkster.

[SumetCycle]

FYI guys: Before the CBR 250 was released all authorized Honda dealers had to send at least one of their mechanics to AP Honda for training in servicing and repairing it. This is standard practice when a new model is released. Honda mechanics are just as trained and qualified as Kawasaki mechanics.

I suspect you haven't had a bike serviced at a Kawasaki main dealer. Having one of your mechanics attend a Thai training course is not really the same thing as what's going on over there, it's like you leave Thailand for an hour - you should go take a look.

As you're one of the dealers that's charging people 15k over RRP due to the supply shortage, I'm wondering whether you'll be doing the same thing on spare parts if they start to dry up - is it a different policy for spare parts sales as opposed to bike sales? And what happens in 6 months when the supply is back to normal and your customers come back and see the bike on the floor for 15k less than they paid? That isn't meant to be a flame by the way, I'm just interested in how/when this policy will be applied.

I've heard about/read some very negative experiences at the Kawa dealer in CM whereas my, albeit limited, experience with Honda has so far been excellent.

Some good points raised about the 15k+ premium some dealers are charging and therefore giving AP Honda a bad name, will be interesting to see the reply Brian gives. I was also surprised at the labour costs at Sumet cycle, didn't I see 500baht to install a xenon light?! That must be a 1-2hr job at most! I asked how much at my Honda dealer today if I took them a xenon light/projector and they said 'mai pen rai', as I bought the bike from them it would be free, as was changing the tyres and exhaust

I don't think that is fair to list one service price and assume that all of our service charges are high. Actually, if a customer bought the the bike from us, I would probably waive the 500 baht installation for the HID. If not, sorry, but I've got to charge. However, installing an HID projector properly is no easy task, and I think 500 baht is a fair price.