Honda Cbr 250R 2011

[thaicbr]

LOL. I love that reindeer bike

[snowflake]

555 my gig will come for a short time now- then it is off for a longer bike ride i think... Maybe pop down to had yai for some fun.. merry christmas to everyone... And a happy new year with lots more people on bikes... Have a safe holiday...

[bobbin]

Tony, that was an excellent article on ABS equipped motorcycles!

I thank you for knowing about it and posting it. :jap:

I guess not so surprising to see the additional costs to have an ABS system back then as it was very hi-tech. Almost voodoo.

Knowing you have been riding an ABS-equipped bike, I was expecting a more personal account of your experiences. But it would be hard to top that article. I guess all you could add would be "It's really the way to go, and if it's available, get it!"

I think you are right in that the topic deserves a thread of it's own, so all potential purchasers could refer to it.

Perhaps you could post this up as the starting post in that thread.

Your point about the progression of the technology since the early '90s is noted as well. They talk about how that generation of technology was not quite ready for use in corners. 15+ years later, would you say that the technology has now advanced enough to deal with that aspect of riding? The first review on Richard's site said that this 3rd gen system would change the way we ride.

Although I was thinking of buying non-ABS model at 100k, I am now thinking that even if it means breaking the piggy-bank, it would be a better decision to go with the ABS model.

So, if you start a new thread we can continue there or carry on here as part of the CBR250R thread. I'm still interested in your own experiences with a more modern system.

Thanks again.

[katabeachbum]

Tony, that was an excellent article on ABS equipped motorcycles!

I thank you for knowing about it and posting it. :jap:

I guess not so surprising to see the additional costs to have an ABS system back then as it was very hi-tech. Almost voodoo.

Knowing you have been riding an ABS-equipped bike, I was expecting a more personal account of your experiences. But it would be hard to top that article. I guess all you could add would be "It's really the way to go, and if it's available, get it!"

I think you are right in that the topic deserves a thread of it's own, so all potential purchasers could refer to it.

Perhaps you could post this up as the starting post in that thread.

Your point about the progression of the technology since the early '90s is noted as well. They talk about how that generation of technology was not quite ready for use in corners. 15+ years later, would you say that the technology has now advanced enough to deal with that aspect of riding? The first review on Richard's site said that this 3rd gen system would change the way we ride.

Although I was thinking of buying non-ABS model at 100k, I am now thinking that even if it means breaking the piggy-bank, it would be a better decision to go with the ABS model.

So, if you start a new thread we can continue there or carry on here as part of the CBR250R thread. I'm still interested in your own experiences with a more modern system.

Thanks again.

I have been riding my first ABS bikes since august 2009, Ninja 650R. Have had much larger bikes previously.

Was very sceptical before delivery, and was prepared to disconnect the stuff if interfering to much when riding on the edge of traction. Must say it works very good, and I dont notice any disadvantage of having it. The Nissin/Tokiko/Denso system is not as advanced as latest gen Bosch as used by BMW and Ducati?, but it works fine.

[nikster]

I guess in the end the only real question is not whether or not you can afford ABS, but can you afford to ride without it?

Great ABS article, Tony (and great Santa). I suppose in the year 2010, odds will be stacked in favor of ABS even more. I didn't think it would be that clear, especially in 1992... I knew it's better for me, but didn't know that you really have to be a professional to brake better than ABS brakes.

Even the rather basic ABS on the ER-6n saved me a few times already. Then again, especially on the last occasion, I'd have ridden at half the speed without ABS, wet road full of bits of trees / dirt...

Merry Xmas!

[LivinLOS]

Both the RC30 and RC45 were V4 configuration.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_VFR750R

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_RVF750_RC45

Yeah I have just found out I was confusing the VFR800 with the VTR1000.. And carried that mental mistake back to previous models.

[appropriate]

ALSO.. Thaimouse... abs cbr250's are being released in Thailand in January... not september.

Oh really?

Who told you that, one of the dealers that swore the standard 250 was being delivered to his shop on Nov 14th?

Or Ape Honda who announced it was to be released on Dec 10th?

Please tell...

You were wrong last time and almost certaintly will be this time too,

That is a very, very odd comment.

How can anyone be wrong when they're asking a question?

I'm sure many people would like the source that confirmed to thaicbr that the ABS version is in stores in January.

And I was wrong about the release date before, I always predicted that it would be released here, but in the early spring.

My xmas pressent came early.

And it's great fun.

Edited December 24, 2010 by appropriate

[thaicbr]

ALSO.. Thaimouse... abs cbr250's are being released in Thailand in January... not september.

Oh really?

Who told you that, one of the dealers that swore the standard 250 was being delivered to his shop on Nov 14th?

Or Ape Honda who announced it was to be released on Dec 10th?

Please tell...

You were wrong last time and almost certaintly will be this time too,

That is a very, very odd comment.

How can anyone be wrong when they're asking a question?

I'm sure many people would like the source that confirmed to thaicbr that the ABS version is in stores in January.

And I was wrong about the release date before, I always predicted that it would be released here, but in the early spring.

My xmas pressent came early.

And it's great fun.

oh ok.. forgot about you asking sozzy.. The guy at the Moto-expo told me.. confirmed by my dealer who called APe Honda (he wants one himself). But like EVERYTHING with this APe Honda CBR launch that could be bullshit or a cock up. I hope not.. but then its going to be Late january early feb before i can ride again anyway....

[bobbin]

More ABS questions.....

Is one of the chief benefits the ability to steer under full (panic) application, like cars? I would think so, as the front/rear wheel never fully locks. Do you just feel the speed bleeding off while still able to steer, or a sensation of hard braking while not quite hitting lock-up? This latter is actually what we try to achieve without ABS, no?

I practice "Look where you want to go" collision avoidance. Can you combine with ABS? By this I mean that while following that practice it often requires you to remain fully committed to the speed you were traveling throughout the avoidance maneuver. Braking more than minimally can interfere. So now I can go into brake mode while retaining my usual avoidance technique? Actually, not full mode, as I don't always stop at present , but to bleed-off dangerous speed? I think you know what I mean.....

That article was not dealing with combinedABS either, so I guess that would be perhaps a multiplying factor versus independent systems.

The review also said Honda had gone for quality components as well. A fast processor and good sensors. Most manufacturers would say something like that but perhaps Honda actually sourced good stuff.

[appropriate]

Thanks for the info, and get well soon.

[thaicbr]

Thanks for the info, and get well soon.

Thanks

[appropriate]

BTW, took my 250 in for an oil change at 150km, all looking good. And got the sponge-y rear brake sorted out, just had to tighten the nut connecting the brake lever and cable. Also adjusted the clutch cable so there's a lot less play on it.

Edited December 24, 2010 by appropriate

[BigBikeBKK]

<br>Tony, that was an excellent article on ABS equipped motorcycles!<br><br>I thank you for knowing about it and posting it.  <img src="http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/jap.gif" class="bbc_emoticon" alt=":jap:"><br><br>I guess not so surprising to see the additional costs to have an ABS system back then as it was <b>very</b> hi-tech. Almost voodoo. <br><br> Knowing you have been riding an ABS-equipped bike, I was expecting a more personal account of your experiences. But it would be hard to top that article. I guess all you could add would be "It's really the way to go, and if it's available, get it!"<br><br>I think you are right in that the topic deserves a thread of it's own, so all potential purchasers could refer to it.<br>Perhaps you could post this up as the starting post in that thread.<br><br>Your point about the progression of the technology since the early '90s is noted as well. They talk about how that generation of technology was not quite ready for use in corners. 15+ years later, would you say that the technology has now advanced enough to deal with that aspect of riding?  The first review on Richard's site said that this 3rd gen system would change the way we ride.<br><br>Although I was thinking of buying non-ABS model at 100k, I am now thinking that even if it means breaking the piggy-bank, it would be a better decision to go with the ABS model.<br><br>So, if you start a new thread we can continue there or carry on here as part of the CBR250R thread. I'm still interested in your own experiences with a more modern system.<br><br>Thanks again. <img src="http://static.thaivisa.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif" class="bbc_emoticon" alt=""><br>

<br><br>Hiya Bobbin,<br><br>It's not so easy for me to tell you about my personal experience with ABS on my bikes because to date I've not had an "emergency stopping" situation where I've needed the ABS. BUT, like a good helmet and riding gear, I find it very comforting to know it's there just in case.<br><br>I've tested the ABS plenty of times and it's pretty remarkable how fast it can stop you, especially when the pavement is wet or oily. On slippery surfaces you can stop WAY faster than you'd expect thanks to ABS. One of my favorite ABS games is to come to a hard stop at oily Bangkok traffic lights (making sure of course that there is no one behind me first!). Or, if the light is green and there's no one about, just try hammering the brakes when the road looks slippery and sit back and relax as the ABS kicks in and keeps you from sliding. It's amazing how slick the pavement can be from the cars and trucks idling at the lights and dripping oil. I've seen a few bikers hit the brakes at such intersections and go down hard. But if you've got ABS backing you up you can HAMMER the brakes and the ABS will not allow you to lock up the wheels. It takes a while to get used to this! If you've been riding a long time you have trained yourself to NOT hammer the brakes. You have learned, by practicing emergency braking, just where the find line is between a tire that grips and a tire that slides. As with modern ABS equipped cars where you have to remind yourself NOT to pump the brakes, when you ride an ABS equipped motorcycle you need to learn to become comfortable with HAMMERING the brakes if you want to take full advantage of the inhuman stopping efficiency of ABS. (And this is still the most often complaint I hear from the guys who don't like ABS- that when you use ABS you are giving away control of your brakes...) Dunno if it's pride or what, but I'm humble enough to readily admit that ABS is better at stopping my bike than I am. It's a proven technology and it saves lives. <br><br>I must be incredibly lucky to have ridden as many km as I have in Thailand without an accident, BUT, as the old biker truism goes- there are those who have been down, and there are those who are going down. I know very well that some day my luck WILL run out and I may find myself in an emergency braking situation that it beyond my skill level. When that day comes I hope that I will be riding a bike with ABS, because I firmly believe that ABS will help me stop (or slow down) faster than no ABS.<br><br>Regarding the use of ABS while cornering the article (written way back in 1992) talks about what it would take for this to happen:<br><br><font color="#0000ff"><b>So, if ABS can prevent wheel lock-ups, what's the problem in turns?

Unfortunately, today's generation of ABS, though quite complex, does

not account for lean angles. The same computer logic for straight-line

braking (i.e., calibrated to allow near tire-smoking stops) does not

apply when tilted over. Someday faster computers with more capacity to

handle increasingly complex ABS programs, combined with faster

hydraulics with the ability to regulate (not just modulate) brake line

pressures, may be able to solve the problem.<br><br>

Still, the ultimate answer, as one source hinted, may be the addition

of lean-angle sensors and computers that completely take over the

full-tilt braking chores. A solution that will take years of R & D

to sort through, and even then will only happen if riders are willing

to accept an increasing level of automation.</b></font>

<br><br>Some modern motorcycles (BMW S1000RR, Ducati Multistrada, etc.) use lean sensors in conjunction with their traction control systems so that traction control still works while cornering (which is AMAZING technology), but to my knowledge (and I could very well be WRONG about this) even today's most modern motorcycle ABS systems still can not cope with lean angles. I think Honda's Combined ABS on their CBR600RR and CBR1000RR supersport bikes is probably one of the most advanced ABS systems out there, but from everything I've read it still only works in straight line and trail braking. Honda's Combined ABS is remarkable in that it  integrates combined braking, anti-lock braking and brake-by-wire systems.<br><br>The problem I see with regards to trying to hit the brakes while you're leaned over in a turn is that ABS or no, applying the front brake tends to stand the bike up and straighten the turn while and applying the rear brake has the opposite effect and tightens the line. Is there a modern ABS system that can somehow "know" your line and then apply the front and rear brakes in such a way as to not upset that line? Would such a system allow you to change your line mid-turn? How will the ABS react to changes in throttle in a turn? We're all taught to roll on the throttle through turns but in an emergency braking situation there is a temptation to roll off the throttle. I don't believe even the most modern ABS systems take into account throttle position, do they?<br><br>With practice one can brake hard in corners and still maintain a line, but ideally you want to brake BEFORE a corner and then enter corners at a proper entry speed that does not require you to brake in the corner. That works great on a track, but in <b>real life</b> you can find yourself in a corner where you HAVE to stop. What's the best way to do this? Practice! It can be a lot of fun to charge corners (enter corners too fast) and muscle a bike over while you're hard on the front brake. It won't give you the best lap time but I still think it's a valuable exercise. Under heavy braking the bike doesn't want to lean because the front brake pushes the bike up, but with practice you CAN do it. Do this on a track where you have safe runouts. DON'T try this on a public road!<br><br>Hmmm... It's late and I'm going to have to think some more about this. <br><br>Ride On!<br><br>Tony<br><br><br>

[canuckamuck]

If only they had ABS for paragraph breaks.

[stander]

:lol:

[BigBikeBKK]

If only they had ABS for paragraph breaks.

Yeah, weird, dunno what happened to the formatting of my post. Oh well

[dave_boo]

If only they had ABS for paragraph breaks.

Yeah, weird, dunno what happened to the formatting of my post. Oh well

Think it has to do with copying and pasting from a webpage; especially since you have the <br> tags in there....

[bobbin]

Yes, very hard to read but more good info.....

Thanks for taking the time to explain further. It's all new to me.

Like you say, it's revolutionary......

As a Canadian, the best gift is the chance to ride on Christmas Day!

Merry Christmas to everyone here and farther afield.

[jackcorbett]

Yes, very hard to read but more good info.....

Thanks for taking the time to explain further. It's all new to me.

Like you say, it's revolutionary......

As a Canadian, the best gift is the chance to ride on Christmas Day!

Merry Christmas to everyone here and farther afield.

Agreed. Excellent info there. I'd say if I were to buy the CBR 250, I'd want it to be with ABS for sure, thanks to what Tony's written here.

[katabeachbum]

Yes, very hard to read but more good info.....

Thanks for taking the time to explain further. It's all new to me.

Like you say, it's revolutionary......

As a Canadian, the best gift is the chance to ride on Christmas Day!

Merry Christmas to everyone here and farther afield.

Agreed. Excellent info there. I'd say if I were to buy the CBR 250, I'd want it to be with ABS for sure, thanks to what Tony's written here.

as Tony said, its a very different way of braking

shortest braking distance at any surface is achived by applying full power on both front and rear brakes. Takes a while to get used to not balance power applied after 35 years of riding bikes.

Just as it took time to adjust to cars ABS. I was driving rally at that time 1986-89, and Audi let us test Quattro with ABS on snow. Amazing

Most riders/drivers apply to little power on ABS brakes, so Bosch has invented electonic sensors applying full brake power when rider/driver applyes brakes suddenly and hard. Shocking first time i tryed it

[T_Dog]

BTW, took my 250 in for an oil change at 150km, all looking good. And got the sponge-y rear brake sorted out, just had to tighten the nut connecting the brake lever and cable. Also adjusted the clutch cable so there's a lot less play on it.

Congrats on the new bike appropriate! You must have been a good boy last year.

How about a report on the vibration.... Is it noticeable, and can you comment on it versus the CBR150? It sure is a meaty looking bike!

[ChangNoi1]

Yes, very hard to read but more good info.....

Thanks for taking the time to explain further. It's all new to me.

Like you say, it's revolutionary......

As a Canadian, the best gift is the chance to ride on Christmas Day!

Merry Christmas to everyone here and farther afield.

Agreed. Excellent info there. I'd say if I were to buy the CBR 250, I'd want it to be with ABS for sure, thanks to what Tony's written here.

as Tony said, its a very different way of braking

shortest braking distance at any surface is achived by applying full power on both front and rear brakes. Takes a while to get used to not balance power applied after 35 years of riding bikes.

Just as it took time to adjust to cars ABS. I was driving rally at that time 1986-89, and Audi let us test Quattro with ABS on snow. Amazing

Most riders/drivers apply to little power on ABS brakes, so Bosch has invented electonic sensors applying full brake power when rider/driver applyes brakes suddenly and hard. Shocking first time i tryed it

To ABS or not to ABS .... I know ABS prevented me once from a accident in the snow in Switserland. But I also know ABS almost made me have a accident on the ring road of BKK when I did not just pressed the ABS brakes but in reflex started to pumping braking (after 30 years of driving without ABS).

Then the question for motorbikes (or cars) when you also drive seriously off-road ... should it be able to switch off the ABS?

Chang Noi

[visions]

[

Then the question for motorbikes (or cars) when you also drive seriously off-road ... should it be able to switch off the ABS?

Chang Noi

Not sure you are looking at the right bike if you are contemplating buying a CBR250 and want to do serious off road work??

[ChangNoi1]

Hahahah no I was contemplating about ABS .... from 2017 it must be on all new motorbikes in the EU.

Chang Noi

[jahsoldier]

For all u phuket people looking for a 250 i can inform u that HONDA in KAMALA had 2 BLACK 250's for the price of 101.000 (!) which is the lowest price i have heard so far. I was there 15 minutes ago.

Edited December 25, 2010 by jahsoldier

[katabeachbum]

Yes, very hard to read but more good info.....

Thanks for taking the time to explain further. It's all new to me.

Like you say, it's revolutionary......

As a Canadian, the best gift is the chance to ride on Christmas Day!

Merry Christmas to everyone here and farther afield.

Agreed. Excellent info there. I'd say if I were to buy the CBR 250, I'd want it to be with ABS for sure, thanks to what Tony's written here.

as Tony said, its a very different way of braking

shortest braking distance at any surface is achived by applying full power on both front and rear brakes. Takes a while to get used to not balance power applied after 35 years of riding bikes.

Just as it took time to adjust to cars ABS. I was driving rally at that time 1986-89, and Audi let us test Quattro with ABS on snow. Amazing

Most riders/drivers apply to little power on ABS brakes, so Bosch has invented electonic sensors applying full brake power when rider/driver applyes brakes suddenly and hard. Shocking first time i tryed it

To ABS or not to ABS .... I know ABS prevented me once from a accident in the snow in Switserland. But I also know ABS almost made me have a accident on the ring road of BKK when I did not just pressed the ABS brakes but in reflex started to pumping braking (after 30 years of driving without ABS).

Then the question for motorbikes (or cars) when you also drive seriously off-road ... should it be able to switch off the ABS?

Chang Noi

The first Audi Quattros with ABS came with an off switch. At that time ABS wasnt very fast (slow frequence on braking), and most of us rally drivers could stop better on snow without ABS

On any vehicle the fuse for ABS can be removed, used as an off switch. Versys off road, it would be nice to lock rearwheel on occasions

[appropriate]

Congrats on the new bike appropriate! You must have been a good boy last year.

Thanks. I always am.

How about a report on the vibration.... Is it noticeable, and can you comment on it versus the CBR150? It sure is a meaty looking bike!

I guess I can comment. Put 530km under it's belt today.

I haven't felt or noticed one vibration. Not a single one. Not at 10kph, and not in the 140s. Nothing whatsoever.

Some quick notes from today. It's so sturdy out in the outside lane of the highway. That's where I was for about 250km today.

The 150 speedo was 10% optimistic, I seriously doubt this is in anyway. 110 on the 250 and 110 on the old 150 are worlds apart. And there's just endless power up into the 130s. And these feel like real 130s and not like 130 on the 150.

Over 130 and there's just too much wind smashing into your face. I took the wrong helmet - faceless and slightly loose, as my tight ful-facer can't be put on with the face mask I use for the BKK smog. A big mistake once on the highway at 140kmph, not having a tight fullfacer.

Took it up 140kph a few times but mostly cruised the outside lane at around 125kph. It's extremely comfortable at this and still got good instant power to shoot you up to 140. Best to forget what 140 feels like on the old 150 because it feels twice as fast and thrice as comfortable on the 250. Simply no comparison. I smashed everything on the highway back into BKK. I won't even say that they were eating my dust when left at the lights because it would have settled by the time they got to it. This was one extremely good aspect, the power, acceleration and stabilty in how it gets from zero to 140, it just roars it and keeps on going and going and going.

If you were pinning it in perfect conditions I would guess you'd get it into the 150s, but I just couldn't with the loose faceless helmet I had on. In that aspect it is slower than I imagined it would be, with people saying pinning the ninja gets around 170kph. But the indicated speed feels far more accurate than the old 150. I think I read the ninja is optimistic too. I would be surprised if this is saying your going faster than you are coz at 130 (with a good bit of power left) most of the cars are being left behind and your just whumping past them in the outside lane. Even at 120 most were being left behind. And at that you just pull back and you're up to 140. It feels very different to the indicated speeds of the old 150.

The first 70km today was city driving with the missus on the back, this included in the first 435km I did cost 450b in gas. the rest was up to Kanchanaburi on the highway then around some of the mountains. This is very cheap, almost as cheap as the old 150, mainly due to the price of benzine91 (old 150) and Gasohol91, and the FI I guess.

Am very, very happy with it, the feeling of power (engine and size) as it dominates the outside lanes of the highway is fantastic. The stability at 140kph is amazing too, there is simply nothing that indicates any instability at that speed, the bike just gobbles it up effortlessly, and can do it all day no worries.

cheers chaps.

Edited December 25, 2010 by appropriate

[BigBikeBKK]

Agreed. Excellent info there. I'd say if I were to buy the CBR 250, I'd want it to be with ABS for sure, thanks to what Tony's written here.

as Tony said, its a very different way of braking

shortest braking distance at any surface is achived by applying full power on both front and rear brakes. Takes a while to get used to not balance power applied after 35 years of riding bikes.

Just as it took time to adjust to cars ABS. I was driving rally at that time 1986-89, and Audi let us test Quattro with ABS on snow. Amazing

Most riders/drivers apply to little power on ABS brakes, so Bosch has invented electonic sensors applying full brake power when rider/driver applyes brakes suddenly and hard. Shocking first time i tryed it

To ABS or not to ABS .... I know ABS prevented me once from a accident in the snow in Switserland. But I also know ABS almost made me have a accident on the ring road of BKK when I did not just pressed the ABS brakes but in reflex started to pumping braking (after 30 years of driving without ABS).

Then the question for motorbikes (or cars) when you also drive seriously off-road ... should it be able to switch off the ABS?

Chang Noi

The first Audi Quattros with ABS came with an off switch. At that time ABS wasnt very fast (slow frequence on braking), and most of us rally drivers could stop better on snow without ABS

On any vehicle the fuse for ABS can be removed, used as an off switch. Versys off road, it would be nice to lock rearwheel on occasions

On BMW GS motorcycles you can switch off the ABS. With the Versys you'll need to reach under the seat and pull a fuse if you want to deactivate the ABS. I can't think of a reason why anyone would want to disconnect the ABS on a road bike like the CBR 250, but again, it would just be a matter of pulling the correct fuse. Ride On! Tony

[appropriate]

Also had the missus (52kg) on around the city and up and down viphawadee for 70 km and it feels fine with the extra weight. The low end torque and grunt is exactly where it should be for this, and barely noticable. Getting it up above 140 with her on it might not be as quick but up and down from zero to 120 is fine.

[stander]

Also had the missus (52kg) on around the city and up and down viphawadee for 70 km and it feels fine with the extra weight. The low end torque and grunt is exactly where it should be for this, and barely noticable. Getting it up above 140 with her on it might not be as quick but up and down from zero to 120 is fine.

I hope this is not an inappropriate question appropriate, but what was the combined weight.