Smokescreen Of Thai Patriotism Can't Hide Our Failings

[webfact]

EDITORIAL

Smokescreen of patriotism can't hide our failings

By The Nation

U-turn on making English Thailand's second language is just the latest example of Thai politicians' cynical use of nationalistic sentiment

Ever wondered why Thai politicians - and many others for that matter - get so nationalistic when they feel cornered?

This is not to say that being nationalistic is a bad thing as such, but too much of it can become unhealthy, not to mention misleading and beside the point.

Take Education Minister Chinnaworn Boonyakiat as an example. He has scrapped a plan to make English the country's second language because he was concerned the world might be misled into thinking that Thailand was once under colonial rule from the West.

He couldn't come out and say that he had made a mistake by aiming too high, perhaps, or that he had bitten off more than he could chew. To admit a mistake or miscalculation could mean looking silly in the eye's of the public. And so instead he insulted our intelligence.

The result was he ended up looking an even bigger fool, using backwards logic to explain the ministry's reversal on an education subcommittee's proposal in July that English be made the country's second official language. The initial idea was to spur students to achieve proficiency in English. According to the subcommittee, this was in line with the regional trend and the Asean road map that calls for "community building" by 2015.

The philosophy behind the Asean community is to create a single market and production base that will allow the free flow of goods, services, investment, capital and labour through the region by 2015. Language and education are important tools.

In that respect, the idea of a common language for citizens of Asean is not a bad one. But in a country where prostitutes speak better English than most ministers, perhaps we should be more humble about our aims. We tend to put a lot of emphasis on grand vision and strategy but overlook the finer details and logistical challenges that could impede what we are trying to achieve. Big talk has long been a common trait of our political culture. That's fine if we are willing to back it up with deeds. The public could do more to rectify this situation by demanding some sort of responsibility from politicians for their promises.

Moreover, Chinnaworn is completely wrong to suggest that the countries that use English are former British colonies. Take the Scandinavian countries, for example; they have never once been invaded by the British and yet still opted for English as their second language. Why? Because it makes sense to them commercially, diplomatically, educationally, logistically - the list goes on.

The bottom line here is that Thais are still not speaking English as well as they should. Many of us speak it well enough to rip off foreign tourists. But not all of us aspire to be fake-Rolex salesmen on Silom Road.

As for our education system, perhaps Chinnaworn should focus on tackling the fundamental problems that have plagued it for decades. You've heard it before and you'll hear it again, but many people became teachers because they failed to get into a university or faculty of their choice, thus the teachers' colleges that dot the country.

Sadly, too, our society and state have instilled the false notion that teaching in public schools is a dead-end career, something unattractive and "uncool".

Perhaps if we started by giving the profession the respect it is due, and provided incentives for teachers with a sound career path, we might attract more candidates.

For too long, teaching as a profession has been treated as a free ride to a comfortable pension.

Education ministers have come and gone but we have yet to hear from a single one an honest assessment of the sorry state of education.

Chinnaworn's decision to wrap himself in the national flag in times of trouble is nothing out of the ordinary. Too many of us are doing it, and it's not just politicians and political groups.

Companies and celebrities have been all too eager to jump aboard this bandwagon, finding it a convenient way to sell energy drinks and so forth.

But a healthy society should be strong and mature enough to take any challenge by the horns, instead of hiding behind a smokescreen of nationalistic fervour. We cannot continue to cling to bromides of patriotism as if they were a cure-all medicine.

-- The Nation 2010-10-23

[SergeiY]

I doubt that this was written by a Thai.

[dumball]

'SergeiY' timestamp='1287790915' post='3973602']

I doubt that this was written by a Thai.

Your remark is an insult to the many Thai that are proficient in English , no matter who wrote it , I feel the article speaks loudly of some of the failings of Thailand , especially the fact that so little has been done by so many other than to point fingers .

[trogers]

Basic human behavior - I love my country but I cannot stand my neighbor.

[siampolee]

Moreover, Chinnaworn is completely wrong to suggest that the countries that use English are former British colonies.

Take the Scandinavian countries, for example; they have never once been invaded by the British and yet still opted for English as their second language.

Why? Because it makes sense to them commercially, diplomatically, educationally, logistically - the list goes on.

As an Englishman born and bred, whatever mix of genes that may be I would like to point out that we were in fact invaded by the Vikings more than a time or two,

Those Vikings were of Nordic extraction and like their later followers the Romans the Normans and a few other motley crew of insurgents they left their genetic stamp upon us having conquered and colonised us.

Yet at the end of the day English is the second language of the area from whence these aforementioned came from. It proves that being invaded and indeed colonised is perhaps not such a bad thing after all.

Whether we like it or not there is no such thing as a pure bred Englishman, American ,Italian , Frenchman, Thai Singaporean, Burmese, Russian or even Chinese or Thai.

We are all mongrels, descended from strays that roamed around on sea or land, nationalism is the defence of the failure of a person or a state to actually be able to compete in the world..

To be a good patriot, a man must consider his countrymen as God's creatures, and himself as accountable for his acting towards them.Bishop Berkeley,

Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious .Oscar Wilde

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." And don't forget common criminals and charlatans.

Edited October 23, 2010 by siampolee

[asiawatcher]

You would think the use of the nationalistic claims are well removed from reality when you have Thai against Thai in open conflict. Education could help a great deal but like any propaganda released about English or any other standard of educations elevation to excellence - it depends on the willingness of the person receiving the education.

I would doubt Isaarn farmers care about English and are happy to remain as they are. The hope of the future lies with the education of Bangkokians and hope they take their learning outstation. Here's hoping.

[Thai at Heart]

Take Education Minister Chinnaworn Boonyakiat as an example. He has scrapped a plan to make English the country's second language because he was concerned the world might be misled into thinking that Thailand was once under colonial rule from the West.

Just replace Thailand with "North Korea" and see how much better it reads.

Now it seems appropriate for a country as whacked out and crazy as North Korea to utter such complete and utter nonsense. If ever there was a better example of face saving, keeping the people stupid and complete incompetence, this is it.

On one thread Abhisit is saying that students are the priority of education authority. On another the education minister thinks that having a mandated second language is bad. These people are so completely incompetent it is not funny any more. Where is this country going to be in 30 years time? The laws covering investment in the country are already restrictive enough because of a smokescreen of protectionism to protect old Thai/Chinese money. Now the population is being told that to mandate English as a second language will confuse their nationalistic rote learnt and distinctly modified history.

The education ministers of the rest of Asean, South Korea and China will choke on their fruit loops this morning if they see this headline.

I can't think of any other country in the world (except maybe North Korea) where a statement like this from an education minister wouldn't result in being fired. In fact, heavy labour in North Korea might be to light a punishment for a person charged with making education policy in a country.

"We are Thailand, we don't need no education......."

[bkkjoe]

I doubt that this was written by a Thai.

Quite opposite, I somehow feel that this article was actually written by a young Thai lady (or someone with a feminine touch)

Edited October 23, 2010 by bkkjoe

[dsprtliving]

I doubt that this was written by a Thai.

Quite opposite, I somehow feel that this article was actually written by a young Thai lady (or someone with a feminine touch)

I agree! I think there is a growing educated middle class in Thailand composed of the under 30 crowd that are beyond fed up with the status quo and constant use of smokescreens generated by the arrogantly ignorant old fellas that constantly bicker over who has the bigger face...only to give themselves and their buddies open access to the country's finances and assets. :jap:

Edited October 23, 2010 by dsprtliving

[scorecard]

'SergeiY' timestamp='1287790915' post='3973602']

I doubt that this was written by a Thai.

Your remark is an insult to the many Thai that are proficient in English , no matter who wrote it , I feel the article speaks loudly of some of the failings of Thailand , especially the fact that so little has been done by so many other than to point fingers .

[/quote

Agree, there are many Thais who are well capable of this level of English. I have students in undergraduate and graduate coursres who speak and write perfect English, and well capable of constructing the message of the article. Many have completed all of their primary and secondary education in UK, US and other locations.

What is perhaps more to the point is that many of these students are highly capable people, and they could contribute enormously in building Thailand with vision aligned to the modern world. They are capable of solid and valuable analysis and discussion and have no hesitation to do so.

But they opt to stay well away from the jobs which 'dictate' the future of Thailand such as highly corrupt politics because it is so smelly and they don't want to be associated with the types of people we currently call politicians and the people who currently head the various ministries, people who have been 'appointed' through the worst possible aspects of cronyism and nepotism, 99% of the totally incapable of contributing anything whatever of value.

The unfortunate loser is Thailand and all Thais.

[scorecard]

You would think the use of the nationalistic claims are well removed from reality when you have Thai against Thai in open conflict. Education could help a great deal but like any propaganda released about English or any other standard of educations elevation to excellence - it depends on the willingness of the person receiving the education.

I would doubt Isaarn farmers care about English and are happy to remain as they are. The hope of the future lies with the education of Bangkokians and hope they take their learning outstation. Here's hoping.

So you are saying that education should pretty much stop at the border of Bangkok province?

I'm speechless. What happened to equal opportunity?

Who ever wonder why there are claims of class wars?

[phiphidon]

You would think the use of the nationalistic claims are well removed from reality when you have Thai against Thai in open conflict. Education could help a great deal but like any propaganda released about English or any other standard of educations elevation to excellence - it depends on the willingness of the person receiving the education.

I would doubt Isaarn farmers care about English and are happy to remain as they are. The hope of the future lies with the education of Bangkokians and hope they take their learning outstation. Here's hoping.

I would suggest that as well as "the willingness of the person receiving the education" the quality of teaching that they receive is of equal importance, if not more so. Maybe some of those "Isaarn farmers" would like to learn English if they had the opportunity to do so, in order that they don't have to be "happy to remain as they are". Perhaps some of them have potential. I don't know, I haven't asked them nor, I suspect have you. I'm willing to be proved wrong. Even Newin Chidchob, whatever your feelings are towards him, is the son of former Mahout (though granted at some point his father became village Headman and started the dynasty rolling). Are you saying that education is to be reserved for Bangkokians only?

[Sateev]

Moreover, Chinnaworn is completely wrong to suggest that the countries that use English are former British colonies.

Take the Scandinavian countries, for example; they have never once been invaded by the British and yet still opted for English as their second language.

Why? Because it makes sense to them commercially, diplomatically, educationally, logistically - the list goes on.

As an Englishman born and bred, whatever mix of genes that may be I would like to point out that we were in fact invaded by the Vikings more than a time or two,

Those Vikings were of Nordic extraction and like their later followers the Romans the Normans and a few other motley crew of insurgents they left their genetic stamp upon us having conquered and colonised us.

Yet at the end of the day English is the second language of the area from whence these aforementioned came from. It proves that being invaded and indeed colonised is perhaps not such a bad thing after all.

Whether we like it or not there is no such thing as a pure bred Englishman, American ,Italian , Frenchman, Thai Singaporean, Burmese, Russian or even Chinese or Thai.

We are all mongrels, descended from strays that roamed around on sea or land, nationalism is the defence of the failure of a person or a state to actually be able to compete in the world..

To be a good patriot, a man must consider his countrymen as God's creatures, and himself as accountable for his acting towards them.Bishop Berkeley,

Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious .Oscar Wilde

"Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel." And don't forget common criminals and charlatans.

The author points out that Scandinavia was never colonized by England, and then you make a point of contradicting him by pointing out that Vikings invaded Britain?

Please give me some ESL Thai students posting here. At least they make sense...

S

[siamtexan]

50 years ago the newly founded Singapore used Burma as the shinning example in the region to follow....Burma turned to nationalism (with military government wrapped in a flag) as the cure for all social ills....results speak for themselves. Thailand is at the crossroads of making the same mistakes allowing the social ills to only increase as the moral decay increases. Its no to late if true leadership were available and would step forward. Leadership that for the first time was not self serving.

[LivinLOS]

I doubt that this was written by a Thai.

Quite opposite, I somehow feel that this article was actually written by a young Thai lady (or someone with a feminine touch)

I agree! I think there is a growing educated middle class in Thailand composed of the under 30 crowd that are beyond fed up with the status quo and constant use of smokescreens generated by the arrogantly ignorant old fellas that constantly bicker over who has the bigger face...only to give themselves and their buddies open access to the country's finances and assets. :jap:

Yes thats true, and does provide hope..

But the problem is the young idealists then grow up, get older, maybe richer, and then feel they are due the status and face their position demands, and become the same old blowhards..

Its the same everywhere.. But the effects are far magnified due to face and status.

Edited October 23, 2010 by LivinLOS

[sprq]

"in a country where prostitutes speak better English than most ministers"

oh, glorious quote!

[cshort64]

The author of this piece is quite right, it is acutually a well written article and has several salient points in it. I am quite surprised by the educational ministers plan to scrap the 2nd language mandate, this makes very little sense. I find it hard to swallow how badly the educational system is being treated by the government and how the citizens are not able to push more for reform.

The wealthy Thai citizens can get a good eduction where the poor do not have the same advantage, this is nothing new here or in other countries. However, in many other countries the government at least tries to be more equitable in how Education is made available.

Recently I traveled to Islamabad on Business, I know an American in Pakistan, not smart, but I have did it and returned safely, anyways, while sitting on the plan I was placed next to a Thai MP, he and I struck up a conversation, his English was quite good he said that the education department did a study of graduating senior girls asking them what their career aspirations where after they finished school and their response was, "to marry a foreign man" , this would make them and their family feel safer about their future than going on to university. The MP I was next too shook is head and was completely shocked, his next concern was for the future of the contry and its traditions. He continued to talk about how the schools fail so many Thai students because they do not encourage thinking and hope and desire to achieve, this is what our schools need, money will help, the PM saying it is important is fine, but changing childrens perspective is key! Without this, we will be having this same conversation in 10 years.

Cheers

C

[Deez]

I doubt that this was written by a Thai.

Quite opposite, I somehow feel that this article was actually written by a young Thai lady (or someone with a feminine touch)

Great article. Too bad thai politicians cant read it because its in english

[cloudhopper]

Face has always been more highly valued than brain. The education minister is merely confirming the continuing institutionalization of this hierarchy.

[writeshack]

I doubt that this was written by a Thai.

All editorial comment at the Nartion is written by Thais. That's a fact.

[JetsetBkk]

Take Education Minister Chinnaworn Boonyakiat as an example. He has scrapped a plan to make English the country's second language because he was concerned the world might be misled into thinking that Thailand was once under colonial rule from the West.

Abhisit should sack him immediately.

[samjaidee]

To avoid any loss of face why don't they make Laoation their second language then almost every Thai would be able to claim to be proficient in their second language in no time at all.

[hammered]

Well written piece. Sadly false patriotism or jingoism has led to many wrongs, of whihc this is just one example, in many countries many of which are still continuing to this day. Just read the front pages of any newspaper anywhere in the world.

[hammered]

To avoid any loss of face why don't they make Laoation their second language then almost every Thai would be able to claim to be proficient in their second language in no time at all.

Actually the majority of Thais dont speak that language/dialect

[anterian]

Face has always been more highly valued than brain. The education minister is merely confirming the continuing institutionalization of this hierarchy.

Indeed so, I would suspect Tulsathit or Veen;)

[roietdweller]

You would think the use of the nationalistic claims are well removed from reality when you have Thai against Thai in open conflict. Education could help a great deal but like any propaganda released about English or any other standard of educations elevation to excellence - it depends on the willingness of the person receiving the education.

I would doubt Isaarn farmers care about English and are happy to remain as they are. The hope of the future lies with the education of Bangkokians and hope they take their learning outstation. Here's hoping.

I would suggest that as well as "the willingness of the person receiving the education" the quality of teaching that they receive is of equal importance, if not more so. Maybe some of those "Isaarn farmers" would like to learn English if they had the opportunity to do so, in order that they don't have to be "happy to remain as they are". Perhaps some of them have potential. I don't know, I haven't asked them nor, I suspect have you. I'm willing to be proved wrong. Even Newin Chidchob, whatever your feelings are towards him, is the son of former Mahout (though granted at some point his father became village Headman and started the dynasty rolling). Are you saying that education is to be reserved for Bangkokians only?

Living here in Isaan, many farmers I know are getting themselves into debt up to the hilt, with the aim of putting their kids through school and university so that they *can* escape the poverty trap that they themselves are in. There are very few poor I know here that are "happy to remain as they are"!! Just a pity that the education system is failing their kids and turning out graduates that are great at colouring in but useless at English...

[samjaidee]

To avoid any loss of face why don't they make Laoation their second language then almost every Thai would be able to claim to be proficient in their second language in no time at all.

Actually the majority of Thais dont speak that language/dialect

I'm aware of that, but can you think of an easier language for the majority of Thais to learn?

[Foggy Bottom]

]As an Englishman born and bred, whatever mix of genes that may be I would like to point out that we were in fact invaded by the Vikings more than a time or two, Those Vikings were of Nordic extraction and like their later followers the Romans the Normans and a few other motley crew of insurgents they left their genetic stamp upon us having conquered and colonised us.

I've snipped it a bit for brevity, but not reworded anything that remains.

It would seem that despite your attempt at including historic (though still fairly recent history) quotes, you didn't pay much attention to the history lessons at school, which tried to educate you about your roots.

Just so you know - the Romans pre-dated the Vikings, who in turn pre-dated what is classically considered the Normans. However, the Normans were in fact Norsemen who had conquered and settled part of Gaul, and renamed it Normandy.

You may also be interested to know that the term "English" is a derivative of "Angles" - the dominant tribe of South East England prior to the Saxon invasions that occurred between the Roman evacuation in 410AD and the start of the Viking raids in around 650AD. Prior to the Roman occupation, the dominant racial group were the Britons, from whom came the Roman-given name of Britannica for the island we now call Great Britain.

Now I've straightened you out on that, please reread the opening post of the thread, and you will note the author correctly stated that the English speaking nations never invaded and colonised Scandinavia. This is generally true, though Nelson did once attack Denmark, conducting both a prolonged naval bombardment and simultaneously landing an army to assault the Danish capital. The British authorities of the day were making a punitive action and had no intention of retaining occupancy.

Regarding the education minister, and whether this is a face or nationalism issue, the root of that problem goes back to the military government nationalism and nationhood programs of the 1940's and 1950's, and the wholesale rewriting of the histories of (now) Thailand from Ramkhamhaeng of Sukhothai inventing writing through to the modern mantra that Thailand has survived 700+ years without being conquered and colonised. Not bad going for a country that was only fully unified and named in 1939 AD.

Until successive Thai governments stop rewriting their nation's and people's history to suit current expediency, there's no chance that ANY non-Thai language will be elevated to the status of second language for the country.

.... though thinking about it, Thai IS the second language already, because Baht is the first language.

edit: to correct a couple of typos

Edited October 23, 2010 by Foggy Bottom

[DoctorG]

A well-written article, regardless of who wrote it. Congratulations.

[somchaiq]

To have English as a second Language is good and nowadays a must for every Business. Unfortunately you cannot await that Kids learn a good English if their Teacher is not able to speak English correct. Biggest Problem in Thailand is that:

• Thai People pronounce many words in their own Language wrong
• they use Thai Grammar with English Words, which ends up in total wrong pronunciation

Thailand can only adapt English as a second Language if the Education System gets total renewed. The Teachers must be better educated since otherwise they cannot teach the children properly.