On the 60th anniversary of the destruction of Hiroshima, new questions are being asked about whether it was necessary to drop the atomic bomb - and whether the bomb was really responsible for the Japanese surrender.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/4724793.stm

Thomas, I really have to question your motives for bringing such sensitive subjects to the table that are only going to generate arguments and in-fighting among our members. Every question asked in the context of history/politics is a valid one. Every person is allowed to have an opinion on the matter as well but it is foolish of any person to try and argue the matter with another of differing opinion when none of us know all the facts or the full story.

Mods, do away with it please.

I let pretty much anything go here so long as it stays within the law. Hence the name of the forum. Mr Merton gets his jollies this way, and others get theirs ripping him apart. Now why would we stand in the way of everyone's fun?

If you need info on how to use the 'ignore' function, feel free to ask in "Forum Support Desk"

cv

As the BBC said, "Historians will never fully agree on the answers."

So, why would we?

I let pretty much anything go here so long as it stays within the law. Hence the name of the forum. Mr Merton gets his jollies this way, and others get theirs ripping him apart. Now why would we stand in the way of everyone's fun?

If you need info on how to use the 'ignore' function, feel free to ask in "Forum Support Desk"

cv

I don't wish to ignore Thomas at all. Sometimes I enjoy reading his rants. I just see it pointless to start another thread that we all know is only going to start fights. I love a worthy debate as much as anyone but it seems to me that a lot of us can't remain mature enough to keep these topics as a civil debate and it winds up turning into an immature slag-fest. I thought we were all adults on here?

Whatever the majority wants though is fine with me. Let the games begin.

Not me man, I've got enough stress in my life.

Thomas, I really have to question your motives

curiosity

fun

interest

for bringing such sensitive subjects to the table

many subjects are sensitive to some; some are sensitive to many; few are sensitive to all

that are only going to generate arguments and in-fighting among our members.

is this not a forum as compared to a notice board? is not the nature of a forum argument and debate - "in-fighting" is rather an emotive word, but if its oposite is "holding hands and saying OM" - I think the former is a livelyer and truer description of Thaivisa

Every question asked in the context of history/politics is a valid one. 

Agreed.

Every person is allowed to have an opinion on the matter as well

Agreed

but it is foolish of any person to try and argue the matter with another of differing opinion when none of us know all the facts or the full story.

IMHO if this was the criteria for posting on Thaivisa - no one would be able to post.

(I have also noticed, none of the points made by yourself here seem to have prevented you from engaging in some of the more controversial and heated discussions on this forum)

Mods, do away with it please.

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'Ol Tom likes to bust my cojones for introducing an opinion from time to time and here we see the same Hiroshima thing again.

Give it a break, Tommy...

Well, Aug. 6 comes every year but what arguments can we bring that have not been discussed endlessly over the last 60 years?

Necessary or not? Those who decided thought it was the right decision at the time.

I did one thing, I travelled to Hiroshima, saw the dome by myself and worse the 'shadows' left of human beings on the wall. Let's hope, never again.

I am with TripX on this one.

I will ignore this thread

I've mentioned this item before re. my father interned as a POW of the Japs on Honshu during the later part of the war. Obviously I have some 'ego-involvement' so to speak on the subject.

That's why we need strong leaders to prevent such cataclysmic events from becoming necessary. Folks other than the gentleman pictured below?

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article....RTICLE_ID=45203

http://www.homelandsecurityus.com/AmericanHiroshima.asp

Maybe instead of debating if they were correct in dropping the two nukes on Japan such a long time ago, maybe we should discuss what sort of scenerio in the future would warrant nuking someone whether innocent people or certified and armed hostile military. The last person I can remember who indicated that they might nuke someone was Barry Goldwater who was a presidential candidate (republican) who lost to Lyndon Johnson if memory serves me correctly. I won't try to paraphrase his statement to that effect because I might get the wording wrong. Does anyone remember what his famous statement was...precisely??? (Boon Mee, this is your cue.....................)

- and whether the bomb was really responsible for the Japanese surrender.

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The surrender was more or less a given after the loss of several key Pacific battles. The only question was how many lives would be lost in getting from point A to point B.

The A-b*omb didn't soley cause the surrender but surely sped up the process, most likely saving the lives of thousands of American soldiers.

The decision to drop it was surely one of the most difficult decisions in history.

The decision to participate in making it clearly devasted the personal lives and psyches of many of the scientists on the project team.

But when it gets right down to it, the A-b*mb is a weapon just like any other weapon. It kills people just as dead as a pistol, a coventional b*mb, or any number of killing technologies that man has developed over time.

Does it really matter if someone gets instantly vaporized at ground zero of a n*clear detonation, or gets instantly vaporized by the detonation of a 1000 pound conventional b*mb? Dead is still dead.

Is it the most dreadful and devastating weapon ever developed? Quite possibly.

But is it really that different from people who invented things like the machine gun and felt that the weapon was the weapon to end all weapons?

At the very least, what the A-b*mb did was wake up the human race to the fact that we have the ability to wipe each other out.

...But when it gets right down to it, the A-b*mb is a weapon just like any other weapon. It kills people just as dead as a pistol, a coventional b*mb, or any number of killing technologies that man has developed over time.

It kills alright but collateral damage and negative after effects such as radiation etc. makes me wonder if it is really that useful militarily.

- and whether the bomb was really responsible for the Japanese surrender.

The surrender was more or less a given after the loss of several key Pacific battles. The only question was how many lives would be lost in getting from point A to point B.

Not at all. the Japs were going to defend the Home Islands to the very last man. Check your history.

Good example are the Jap soldiers found on Guam, Saipan etc 10, 20 years after the war was over and they were still fighting.

We had to drop the bomb(s) to save US lives - and Jap too...

tm, I just consider this thread to be pointless and will serve no good in the end and as much as I hate to say this: "What does this have to do with Thailand?" You are just stirring sh1t and that's just stupid.

Grow up old man and GAG

tm, I just consider this thread to be pointless and will serve no good in the end and as much as I hate to say this: "What does this have to do with Thailand?" You are just stirring sh1t and that's just stupid.

Grow up old man and GAG

You got that right, Chris

What's the point? What's done is done and all these members of TV who subscribe to Buddhist philosophy should just let it go.

Unfortunately. we got Mr. Tommy who likes to stir the sh1t - voila! we got this thread...

tm, I just consider this thread to be pointless and will serve no good in the end and as much as I hate to say this: "What does this have to do with Thailand?" You are just stirring sh1t and that's just stupid.

Grow up old man and GAG

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You got that right, Chris

What's the point? What's done is done and all these members of TV who subscribe to Buddhist philosophy should just let it go.

Unfortunately. we got Mr. Tommy who likes to stir the sh1t - voila! we got this thread...

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As mr. Ebenezer Pot said to Mr. Elijah Kettle, "Who yo callin a white boy, mother &lt;deleted&gt;?"

I know when a Valentine's Day card is appropriate....I know when a Christmas card is appropriate....but I'm still wondering when you all think dropping a nuclear bomb on someone is appropriate.

Its history

Yes the Japs wld have to have been bombed into submission,nukes or conventional.

Loss of life more or less? Debatable.

Long live independant thought.

I know when a Valentine's Day card is appropriate....I know when a Christmas card is appropriate....but I'm still wondering when you all think dropping a nuclear bomb on someone is appropriate.

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I know when a Valentine's Day card is appropriate....I know when a Christmas card is appropriate....but I'm still wondering when you all think dropping a nuclear bomb on someone is appropriate.

Comparing holiday greeting cards to nuclear bombs is a real stretch there, Chownah.

I know when a Valentine's Day card is appropriate....I know when a Christmas card is appropriate....but I'm still wondering when you all think dropping a nuclear bomb on someone is appropriate.

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Comparing holiday greeting cards to nuclear bombs is a real stretch there, Chownah.

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Thank you for your comment, Boon Mee. It has helped me understand you better.

I know when a Valentine's Day card is appropriate....I know when a Christmas card is appropriate....but I'm still wondering when you all think dropping a nuclear bomb on someone is appropriate.

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Like Boon, I don't really get the analogy. Hallmark. Nuke. .... Nuke. Hallmark. .... Hmmmm ....... no I don't get it.

I don't think it is right for any human being to cause misery to another. But the fact is it happens, whether is was the US nuking two cities in Japan in WW2, or military forces using poison gas on each other in WW1, or current dictators in 3rd world countries starving their fellow countrymen to death because they belong to a different tribe, or a guy on a London bus getting his guts carved out because some criminal is throwing chips at his girlfriend, or some poor kid getting an axe in his head from a group of scum just because his skin is the wrong color. Dead is still dead.

The only question that remains is whether or not these acts are justifiable. No one on this planet can answer that. For that people have to face their maker.

I will stick with my first assessment of this: tm is just a TROLL, the thread will accomplish nothing and is intended to just stir sh1t between the members.

He needs a GAG order.

Anyone know what these two Latin phrases mean?

- Ad Hominem

- Ad Hominem Tu Quoque

Look here and here.

Your point?

Search engines, meet Thomas Merton, Thomas, meet the search engines....

http://www.altavista.com/

http://www.google.com/

Ask them anything. They're terribly smart.

cv

Its history

Yes the Japs wld have to have been bombed into submission,nukes or conventional.

Loss of life more or less? Debatable.

Long live independant thought.

Keep in mind that the conventional firebombing of Tokyo killed more than both nukes put together. It's just that the word nuclear raises hackles. People dying is always a horrible thing, but its not like Japan was an innocent bystander.

cv

TM, I'll help you out a little here. An example of Ad Hominem Tu Quoque would be as follows:

Some TV members have defended the dropping of nuclear weapons on Japan during WWII. They have since been given an opportunity to explain when it would be appropriate to drop a nuclear weapon in the future but none of them has done so. This proves that their defence of dropping the nuclear weapons on Japan is false.

If I'm wrong about this being an example of Ad Hominem Tu Quoque then someone please let me know.