Undertaker Arrested For Hiding 200 Foetuses From Abortion Clinics In Bangkok Temple

[webfact]

Undertaker arrested for hiding some 200 foetuses in temple

An undertaker has been arrested for allegedly assisting five abortion clinics to dispose some 200 aborted foetuses.

Suthep Cha-bangbon, 46, an undertaker of Phai Ngern Temple on Soi Trokchan 20 in Bang Kholaem district, has been arrested, a police source said.

Initially, Suthep claimed that he was the one who spotted the aborted foetuses and alerted police.

He claimed he did not know how the foetues had ended up being hidden in one of temporary body storage of the temple pending cremation.

But after he was taken to Wat Phayakrai police station for questioning, he admitted that he was hired by five abortion clinics to dispose the foetuses.

-- The Nation 2010-11-16

[webfact]

The number of baby fetuses found at the Pai-ngern Temple has risen to 322 according to some reports. /via@tulsathit

[Para]

Why would a Buddhist Temple have 300+ fetuses there?

There wont be a lot of Farrang that know the story of Khun Paen and understand EXACTLY how Gumantong came about.

Maybe just as well as it could make a very macabre crime a hel_l of a lot worse......

[webfact]

Over 100 dead foetuses found in Thai temple: police

BANGKOK, November 16, 2010 (AFP) - The bodies of more than 100 human foetuses, apparently from an illegal abortion clinic, were discovered inside a Buddhist temple in central Bangkok, Thai police said Tuesday.

The corpses, wrapped in plastic bags and newspaper, were found by a member of temple staff in a mortuary storage area.

"There are more than 100 plastic bags with foetal corpses inside hidden in the storehouse of a temple," said Police Colonel Metee Rakphan.

"We assume that they were from illegal abortion clinics, and we are now investigating."

One rescue worker with the Poh Teck Tung foundation, a charity that provides emergency rescue and body recovery services, suggested that hundreds of corpses could eventually be uncovered.

"Our figure we received a moment ago is 240, but we think that there are between 300 to 500 foetuses as we have only searched half the area," he said.

Buddhist temples in Thailand not only perform cremation ceremonies, but also store bodies in specially refrigerated areas.

Abortion is illegal in Thailand except when it is judged that delivery would harm the mother or when the pregnancy is the result of rape.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2010-11-16

[mythBuster]

So actually this is a very decent person. Instead of destroying them he is putting them in a temple. Maybe the police have nothing better to do, maybe he did not pay off our upstanding men in brown, but the problem is not this man but the abortion clinics. Actually Abortion should be legal anyhow, Wondering when they arrest someone for killing 86 people in a Bangkok neighborhood.... talking about double standards/

[morganl]

So actually this is a very decent person. Instead of destroying them he is putting them in a temple. Maybe the police have nothing better to do, maybe he did not pay off our upstanding men in brown, but the problem is not this man but the abortion clinics. Actually Abortion should be legal anyhow, Wondering when they arrest someone for killing 86 people in a Bangkok neighborhood.... talking about double standards/

I totally agree with you mythBuster!!

Edited November 16, 2010 by morganl

[LivinLOS]

So actually this is a very decent person. Instead of destroying them he is putting them in a temple. Maybe the police have nothing better to do, maybe he did not pay off our upstanding men in brown, but the problem is not this man but the abortion clinics. Actually Abortion should be legal anyhow, Wondering when they arrest someone for killing 86 people in a Bangkok neighborhood.... talking about double standards/

I totally agree with you mythBuster!!

You two are familiar with the practice of Guman Thong amulets ?? And the process of creation..

[LivinLOS]

Just a little C&P.

It's pronounce as "Gu Man Thong", but there is a few variance to his name. Some ppl call Gumantong, Kumantong & Gumanthong. Also some ppl just use the word GMT or KMT to represent. More ppl name it as Gumantong.

Gumantong is a Thai amulet (yin amulet) created in the form of a lovely young child, but it's really a ghost. It's was first created in the early of Ayuthaya era or some 500 years ago during Khun Paen's life period. It can be said that Khun Paen was the first who created Gumantong. He brought the dead baby from the womb of the dead Bua Klee, one of his minor wife, to the Bosth's outer area within Pathasima marking boundary pillars for ritual processes. Bosth is the major chanting hall where the main Buddha image of the temple is placed. Bosth and its outer area are so sacred place that no mighty ghosts or spirits can enter to make any harassment. By the legendary descriptions, Khun Paen was chanting some important Mantras to activate the spirit of Gumantong while baking the dead baby on the fire. Khun Paen was a military general in the early Ayuthaya era.

It's Thai belief that a mother who died with her baby in the womb may become a very mighty ferocious ghost, Thai people call such the ghost PHI TAI TONG KLOM. By Thai traditon, any pregnant lady who died in that manner will not be cremated immediately in all cases, believing that it will make the spirit of the dead unhappy and may activate her to become the vicious ghost. Creating Gumantong in the ancient time was very thrilling. The master had to go to the graveyard alone in the night, dig up the corpse, cut the corpse's abdomen bringing the dead baby out, and then rush directly to the nearest Bosth's outer area for baking processes.That's the safe place to protect the ghost mother from trying to bring her baby back. So only the strong-mind person who possesses the advanced magical knowledge to fight the ghost could do this. If the ghost child is very fierce (can’t rest in peace), the monk or master will have to chant daily for years till the hatred & sin is cleansed.

The original form of the Gumantong is actually a dead infant, but it is traditionally created in the form of a young child in different shapes, sizes & forms with various materials, such as wood, bronze, ivory tusk, plaster,etc. The main purpose of creating Gumantong in the ancient time is for protecting the owner. The young child ghost could be activated with Mantra to fight the owner's enemies or to protect the owner's treasures.

In the present day the monks or masters seldom uses the dead infants to create the Gumantong. But more commonly they create it with varies material including things like corpse soil (死尸泥), corpses oil & activate their lives by holy Mantras. They are uses for various purposes, including for black magic, winning in gamble, guarding the house, protecting the owner's house or personal protection, etc.

I knew that there are some very evil Gumantong are create by black magic monks, guru or master, those Gumantong are uses to do bad things. That will add on the bad karma to the person owning it. Some Gumantong are very difficult to tame & they even need to be feed on blood. It's easy to have them as your ghost child but not so easy if you decided not to want it anymore. Must bring to Thai temple & let the monks keep it in the temple.

Any one who wants to worship Gumantong should be acknowledged with some important practices :

1. Food offering must be presented at least once a day.

2. Toy offering must also be presented occasionally, it's just because Gumantong is a young child(spirit), he likes playing toys as another human child.

3. The worshiper should love Gumantong as his/her son. For the 1st personal pronoun you call yourself "father" or "mother"; for the 2nd personal pronoun you call him "my son" ; and for the 3rd personal pronoun you just call his name Guman Thong.

4. Any house that has small child/children, it's recommended that should not bring in and worship Guman Thong because he may envy your child/children whom you pay all love to.

Worshipping Guman Thong needs deliberate practices. But if you can do it completely as recommended, he will be a good great fortune bringer.

Edited November 16, 2010 by LivinLOS

[SergeiY]

So actually this is a very decent person. Instead of destroying them he is putting them in a temple. Maybe the police have nothing better to do, maybe he did not pay off our upstanding men in brown, but the problem is not this man but the abortion clinics. Actually Abortion should be legal anyhow, Wondering when they arrest someone for killing 86 people in a Bangkok neighborhood.... talking about double standards/

I totally agree with you mythBuster!!

You two are familiar with the practice of Guman Thong amulets ?? And the process of creation..

yep, its maybe macabre for certain people. but not a 'macabre crime' with emphasis on crime as some other comment suggested.

[Para]

You two are familiar with the practice of Guman Thong amulets ?? And the process of creation..

LivinLOS I for 1 certainly understand exactly the implications behind this story........

[LivinLOS]

So actually this is a very decent person. Instead of destroying them he is putting them in a temple. Maybe the police have nothing better to do, maybe he did not pay off our upstanding men in brown, but the problem is not this man but the abortion clinics. Actually Abortion should be legal anyhow, Wondering when they arrest someone for killing 86 people in a Bangkok neighborhood.... talking about double standards/

I totally agree with you mythBuster!!

You two are familiar with the practice of Guman Thong amulets ?? And the process of creation..

yep, its maybe macabre for certain people. but not a 'macabre crime' with emphasis on crime as some other comment suggested.

So cooking childrens corpses to make special lucky amulets is all find and good in your world ??

[neilf]

Just a little C&P.

It's pronounce as "Gu Man Thong", but there is a few variance to his name. Some ppl call Gumantong, Kumantong & Gumanthong. Also some ppl just use the word GMT or KMT to represent. More ppl name it as Gumantong.

Gumantong is a Thai amulet (yin amulet) created in the form of a lovely young child, but it's really a ghost. It's was first created in the early of Ayuthaya era or some 500 years ago during Khun Paen's life period. It can be said that Khun Paen was the first who created Gumantong. He brought the dead baby from the womb of the dead Bua Klee, one of his minor wife, to the Bosth's outer area within Pathasima marking boundary pillars for ritual processes. Bosth is the major chanting hall where the main Buddha image of the temple is placed. Bosth and its outer area are so sacred place that no mighty ghosts or spirits can enter to make any harassment. By the legendary descriptions, Khun Paen was chanting some important Mantras to activate the spirit of Gumantong while baking the dead baby on the fire. Khun Paen was a military general in the early Ayuthaya era.

It's Thai belief that a mother who died with her baby in the womb may become a very mighty ferocious ghost, Thai people call such the ghost PHI TAI TONG KLOM. By Thai traditon, any pregnant lady who died in that manner will not be cremated immediately in all cases, believing that it will make the spirit of the dead unhappy and may activate her to become the vicious ghost. Creating Gumantong in the ancient time was very thrilling. The master had to go to the graveyard alone in the night, dig up the corpse, cut the corpse's abdomen bringing the dead baby out, and then rush directly to the nearest Bosth's outer area for baking processes.That's the safe place to protect the ghost mother from trying to bring her baby back. So only the strong-mind person who possesses the advanced magical knowledge to fight the ghost could do this. If the ghost child is very fierce (can’t rest in peace), the monk or master will have to chant daily for years till the hatred & sin is cleansed.

The original form of the Gumantong is actually a dead infant, but it is traditionally created in the form of a young child in different shapes, sizes & forms with various materials, such as wood, bronze, ivory tusk, plaster,etc. The main purpose of creating Gumantong in the ancient time is for protecting the owner. The young child ghost could be activated with Mantra to fight the owner's enemies or to protect the owner's treasures.

In the present day the monks or masters seldom uses the dead infants to create the Gumantong. But more commonly they create it with varies material including things like corpse soil (死尸泥), corpses oil & activate their lives by holy Mantras. They are uses for various purposes, including for black magic, winning in gamble, guarding the house, protecting the owner's house or personal protection, etc.

I knew that there are some very evil Gumantong are create by black magic monks, guru or master, those Gumantong are uses to do bad things. That will add on the bad karma to the person owning it. Some Gumantong are very difficult to tame & they even need to be feed on blood. It's easy to have them as your ghost child but not so easy if you decided not to want it anymore. Must bring to Thai temple & let the monks keep it in the temple.

Any one who wants to worship Gumantong should be acknowledged with some important practices :

1. Food offering must be presented at least once a day.

2. Toy offering must also be presented occasionally, it's just because Gumantong is a young child(spirit), he likes playing toys as another human child.

3. The worshiper should love Gumantong as his/her son. For the 1st personal pronoun you call yourself "father" or "mother"; for the 2nd personal pronoun you call him "my son" ; and for the 3rd personal pronoun you just call his name Guman Thong.

4. Any house that has small child/children, it's recommended that should not bring in and worship Guman Thong because he may envy your child/children whom you pay all love to.

Worshipping Guman Thong needs deliberate practices. But if you can do it completely as recommended, he will be a good great fortune bringer.

bloo*dy hel_l

[reason1]

Other than Illegalabortions can someone please clarify what is criminal here?

[peridot]

The origins of the first story relating to Guman Thong were from a 19th century work of literature "Khun Chang Khun Paen". Khun Paen was a soldier, 400 years previous, a time when supernatural forces played an important part of traditional warfare.

This is a case of fiction becoming fact for many believers in Thailand. It started as a fiction story, but many people believe in it as fact today. I collected kuman thong that I bought at flea markets and on the street, but most Thai people were quite creeped out by them when they came to my house. I decided not to keep them in my house in Thailand anymore.

I have been told that the older statuettes made from clay or plaster had ashes from cremated fetuses mixed in with the clay or plaster to hold the spirit in the figurines. Most of them today are made of plastic, so it is unlikely there are any ashes mixed in.

[LivinLOS]

I have been told that the older statuettes made from clay or plaster had ashes from cremated fetuses mixed in with the clay or plaster to hold the spirit in the figurines. Most of them today are made of plastic, so it is unlikely there are any ashes mixed in.

Thats of course correct.. in the cheap ones !!

Just google it and read a few of the forums and amulet stories.. The whole ghost child amulet and raising it as a child.. With the help it can bring.

Sadly people believe this.. Enough to pay for it.

[george]

Bodies of more than 100 human foetuses, apparently from illegal abortion clinics, discovered inside Buddhist temple /MCOT

[whybother]

Other than Illegalabortions can someone please clarify what is criminal here?

Illegal disposal of medical waste?

[Para]

I think a little knowledge of what the late Laung Por Tim from Rayong was famous for is needed here. Legend? Myth? Get real it happens like it or not.

L.P. Tim's Khun Paen Amulets go for 500,000 PLUS, you think that is all because of a story?

Flame me as much as you like I work in the Thai Amulet business, I know.

Para

[Boss]

Liveinlos, That was a very nice report on the facts. Discussed with my wife, who could add that the fetuses mostly are  exported down south and used for some magical purposes. I have a feeling that big economical interests are involved.<br>Buddhism has many faces...<br>Take a look in the bar next time you go there, usually there will be one or two small baby figures, well might be as many as ten (if the barkeeper can afford it) cause you have to take care of them ! Food, toys, gold.<br>Then they will bring the bar good luck.<br>In rare cases there will be a real fetus conservated in alcohol. According to the wife this is fully legal ?? I doubt it.<br>This is interresting - please more facts.<br>

[KevinB]

Fascinating - something cross-cultural and interesting.

[GooEng]

I think a little knowledge of what the late Laung Por Tim from Rayong was famous for is needed here. Legend? Myth? Get real it happens like it or not.

L.P. Tim's Khun Paen Amulets go for 500,000 PLUS, you think that is all because of a story?

Flame me as much as you like I work in the Thai Amulet business, I know.

Para

lemme get this right - is it being suggested that these corpses were possibly going to be used in the manufacture of magic amulets?

and further are you saying that the amulets of Laung Por Tim were the same kind and indeed contain remnants of a baby foetus, hence their percieved potency and high price?

[LivinLOS]

Other than Illegalabortions can someone please clarify what is criminal here?

Illegal disposal of medical waste?

Lets be fair.. I doubt the mothers concerned expected that their unborn would be raised as ghost children either.. If we believe the karmic implications or not is sort of irrelevant but if there is laws against taking dead babies and cooking them into good luck charms there should be !!

[webfact]

UPDATE

More than 340 dead foetuses found in Thai temple: police

BANGKOK, November 16, 2010 (AFP) - The bodies of more than 340 human foetuses, apparently from an illegal abortion clinic, were discovered inside a Buddhist temple in central Bangkok, Thai police said Tuesday.

A total of 348 corpses, wrapped in plastic bags and newspaper, were found by a member of temple staff in a mortuary storage area.

Police Colonel Metee Rakphan said plastic bags were found "with foetal corpses inside hidden in the storehouse of a temple".

"We assume that they were from illegal abortion clinics, and we are now investigating," he told AFP, adding that they were questioning the temple mortician.

One rescue worker with the Poh Teck Tung foundation, a charity that provides emergency rescue and body recovery services, said up to 500 foetuses could eventually be uncovered.

Buddhist temples in Thailand not only perform cremation ceremonies, but also store bodies in specially refrigerated areas.

Abortion is illegal in Thailand except when it is judged that delivery would harm the mother or when the pregnancy is the result of rape.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2010-11-16

[LivinLOS]

lemme get this right - is it being suggested that these corpses were possibly going to be used in the manufacture of magic amulets?

Almost certainly.

and further are you saying that the amulets of Laung Por Tim were the same kind and indeed contain remnants of a baby foetus, hence their percieved potency and high price?

That I have no idea.. But a brief scan of some sites shows amulets that claim to contain the 'essense' of 7 unborn etc in not even coded words.. So really what do you think gets people to pay half a million baht for a black magic charm ??

An immediate scan on google gives

"Another famous monk of recent times is of course Luang Phor Tim of Wat Lahanrai. The method by which he created his now famous "Guman Plaai" is very well documented and somewhat macabre. His methods bordered on the original techniques employed for centuries until it was made illegal due to moral issues. This technique involves the use of ground bone ash, known as "Guman Plaai". This type of Guman Thong is thought to be the most powerful and requires a lot of dedication on the part of the owner."

Edited November 16, 2010 by LivinLOS

[brahmburgers]

superstition can be ugly and debilitating.

[anterian]

My take is that cremating the corpses is not the crime, this is the normal Thai method of disposal. The crime is not reporting the illegal abortion clinics and attempting to destroy the evidence.

As to performing magic with foetuses, it is on a par with using used sanitary towels, and that seems quite accepable to most Thais.

[Tokay]

I would expect this from Haiti, not from Thailand.

Superstition and face... both ridiculous.

[reason1]

I find this very creepy and I'm bothered about this from the perspective of what I might have contributed during my misbehavior for 20 out 30 yrs in region I hope it is illegal

[Para]

lemme get this right - is it being suggested that these corpses were possibly going to be used in the manufacture of magic amulets?

and further are you saying that the amulets of Laung Por Tim were the same kind and indeed contain remnants of a baby foetus, hence their percieved potency and high price?

I am saying it is happens in Thailand BUT has not been proved in this case.

L.P. Tim's Khun Paen are the most sort after there is and yes I am saying as a FACT some of his Amulets were made the original way. I have spoken to my Ajahn to confirm what I have written here.

[animatic]

superstition can be ugly and debilitating.

You said a mouthful.

Well if I was thinking of running this Amulate creation business, I would certainly cultivate illegal abortionists as suppliers. It is so sad that the power of the superstitions so overwhelms the sense of moral revulsion, that this can go on even today. But this circumstance and this back story do fit together a bit too tightly for moral comfort

Para, I am not surprised at your quoted prices that you have seen.

I did a bit of looking into the amulet scene here a few years back

and was rather taken aback at the higher end items.

I did get my sister a Jatukamen Ramahtep as a present

when she came here for my wedding. More a souvenir,

but she doesn't mind good luck too.