Annual Extensions Of Stay

[OJAS]

I am posting on this forum a link to the thread which I originated on the banking forum at http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/421728-phantom-atm-cash-withdrawals/ since, to my mind, the phantom ATM withdrawal incidents which I have experienced graphically illustrate a potential (if not actual) danger of relying exclusively on the bank account deposit method for satisfying Immigration's financial requirements for annual extensions of stay.

If I were to top up my Thai bank account with the aim of ensuring a minimum credit balance of 800,000 THB throughout the 90-day period prior to renewing my extension of stay for retirement purposes, but along came mystery individual A Ghost during this period to spirit off sufficient funds from my account to leave a credit balance of less than 800,000 THB, it seems to me that I would be well and truly stuffed come the time to submit my annual extension of stay to Immigration – even if, immediately subsequent to Mr Ghost's dastardly deed, I were to top up the account further as necessary, or the ultimate miracle were to occur in the form of a full refund by the bank.

Given my current low confidence in the Thai banking system, therefore, it is my intention to continue relying exclusively on the monthly income method for satisfying Immigration's financial requirements for annual extensions of stay – even if this does mean the hassle and expense of obtaining Embassy/Consulate confirmatory letters each year. Of course, if the GBP were to continue its downward spiral against the THB, I might eventually find myself in the position of having to rely on the "combination" method – in which case I would need to ensure that there were adequate funds in my account to enable A Ghost to help himself to his share, should he wish.

Has anyone out there, in fact, had their annual extension of stay application screwed up as a direct result of A Ghost plundering their bank account during the critical 90-day period beforehand?

[lopburi3]

In eight years of reading this forum I have never seen any such report. And I have had accounts here for more years than that and have never had any unexplained withdrawals so don't believe it is a frequent occurrence.

[tomallison]

In eight years of reading this forum I have never seen any such report. And I have had accounts here for more years than that and have never had any unexplained withdrawals so don't believe it is a frequent occurrence.

Concur fully with above.

Rules are: Account in own name only.

One ATM card, in your possession, or locked away 24/7.

PIN number known only to yourself.

Follow those - no problems.

[Suradit]

In eight years of reading this forum I have never seen any such report. And I have had accounts here for more years than that and have never had any unexplained withdrawals so don't believe it is a frequent occurrence.

I agree. Never had any problems with Bangkok Bank in more than 10 years, which can't be said about my US bank. Of course, anything is possible, but most problems probably arise from carelessness on the part of the account holder rather than the bank.

If you get the pension verification in combination with the bank account balance method it relieves you of the need to keep a certain amount in the bank for the 90 days leading up to your application for extension, which may be sensible given the fluctuating exchange rates and the timing of your deposits, but worrying about a bank screw-up seems excessive.

Besides,in the unlikely event that your balance mysteriously dropped below B800,000 in the month before your renewal, just go to your embassy and get the letter. Problem solved. No need to lie awake night worrying about it.

[jdinasia]

In eight years of reading this forum I have never seen any such report. And I have had accounts here for more years than that and have never had any unexplained withdrawals so don't believe it is a frequent occurrence.

Same here, though I have had a couple of occurrences on a US card. The Credit Union caught them, cancelled the card, and put the money back in my account in 3 days.

[jazzbo]

You can also just set up a passbook savings account with NO authorized ATM cards at any bank in Thailand... the 'ghost 'would then need to be you with your passbook and passport for withdrawals.

[Jingthing]

I also haven't had any problems with thieving withdrawals. However, I do think it is more widespread here than in western countries, though that doesn't mean it is common either. In case of immigration accepting a bank account going under 800K for ANY reason for a retirement extension based on that, I reckon they would NOT approve such applications.

[Pib]

You can also just set up a passbook savings account with NO authorized ATM cards at any bank in Thailand... the 'ghost 'would then need to be you with your passbook and passport for withdrawals.

Would agree.

Another way is to setup a direct deposit savingsaccount. Bangkok Bank direct deposit accounts are required if you are US citizen with a govt pension/allotment being sent automatically periodically, like every month, to Bangkok Bank. Bangkok Bank will eventually require a person to setup a direct deposit account to receive a monthly "US govt" allotment/pension and this account is in the individual's name only; no joint accounts. The inflows have codes on them which identify if the money is coming from a US govt agency. The direct deposit account can actually receive any type of money inflow/transfers, not just something like a monthly US govt pension. And it can be setup for any citizenship. The only way to check your account balance is go to a bank outlet and ask or put your deposit book in the machine for an update. No ATM, telephone, or internet banking can be setup for the direct deposit account. But, you can have a SMS notice setup to automatically notify you when the incoming money is deposited to your account...the notice tells you the date/time of deposit, amount of foreign currency received, amount in Thai baht deposited, and exchange rate received. And the only way to withdraw money is to show up with your bankbook, passport/ID, fill out a withdrawal form, and present yourself to a bank teller, who makes a copy of the passport main page, verifies your face against the passport/ID picture, and verifies your signature on the withdrawal form with the signature in your bankbook. Summary: only you physically showing up at a bank outlet can result in money being withdrawn.

I can speak from experience on this as I have a direct deposit account and every month or two I will go withdraw X-amount and immediately redeposit it in my regular savings account which has full ATM/Debt card, telephone, internet banking privileges, etc. Takes me about 5 minutes to do the withdrawal/transfer at my local bank outlet in the Lotus I go to several times a week. Plus, the bank outlet tellers are so pretty to stare at for about 5 minutes while they are processing my withdrawal/transfer.

[JimGant]

Pib,

Do you pay the .25% fee on the Thai end, and the $10 fee on the New York end, for each electronic transfer of a Gov't paycheck to Bangkok Bank?

My Air Force pension, plus both my and the wife's social security checks are direct deposited in my US bank. I then go on-line and ACH some or all of the total of these deposits to Thailand -- resulting in only one $10 charge Stateside, and no more than 500 baht in Thailand.

But, if there are no fees with Direct Deposit to Thailand on US Gov't payments, I guess I could save around $25/mo going the direct deposit route. However, not sure it's worth the tradeoff of having to physically appear at my bank. Nor giving up the flexibility of just when I want the money sent (not that I'm any good at judging the direction of FX).

Certainly not worried about the subject of this thread, namely, having an account with ATM privileges, and thus possible security issues. And, obviously, if there are fees similar to ACH fees involved with each of these direct deposits, ACH remains the way to go -- cost-wise and convenience-wise.

Oh, if you croak -- or get laid-up in the hospital -- what's the workaround to enable your wife access to these Direct Deposit funds?

[lopburi3]

There is no work around that I am aware of as your wife would not have access - that is the reason for that system - so they can return the funds paid after death to US Government per rules. At some point the Bank might pay excess after death paperwork presented but would not hold my breath (being dead guess that is not an option). Believe US deposit is best for most of us.

[Pib]

Pib,

Do you pay the .25% fee on the Thai end, and the $10 fee on the New York end, for each electronic transfer of a Gov't paycheck to Bangkok Bank?

My Air Force pension, plus both my and the wife's social security checks are direct deposited in my US bank. I then go on-line and ACH some or all of the total of these deposits to Thailand -- resulting in only one $10 charge Stateside, and no more than 500 baht in Thailand.

But, if there are no fees with Direct Deposit to Thailand on US Gov't payments, I guess I could save around $25/mo going the direct deposit route. However, not sure it's worth the tradeoff of having to physically appear at my bank. Nor giving up the flexibility of just when I want the money sent (not that I'm any good at judging the direction of FX).

Certainly not worried about the subject of this thread, namely, having an account with ATM privileges, and thus possible security issues. And, obviously, if there are fees similar to ACH fees involved with each of these direct deposits, ACH remains the way to go -- cost-wise and convenience-wise.

Oh, if you croak -- or get laid-up in the hospital -- what's the workaround to enable your wife access to these Direct Deposit funds?

I do pay the 0.25% fee (200 Baht min to 500 Baht max) on the Thai end and another fee as it goes through the Bangkok Bank New York end. But I'm only transferring a portion of my pension (via DFAS) using an allotment approach. I transfer $2000 exactly which is the upper limit for only a $5 fee at the New York side. This means $1995 continues on to Thailand. I transfer additional amounts as needed/when needed to my regular account and/or direct deposit account using Automatic Clearing House (ACH) method from my stateside bank. The Thai end fee ends up being the 200 Baht minimum (about $6.60) plus the NY branch fee of $5 for a total of $11.60. The monthly automatic transfer always shows up in my account (with automatic SMS notice) on the first business day of the month...but please keep in mind the first business day depends on weekends, and Thai "and" US holidays....but weekends & holidays affects/delays any method used to transfer money to your account. I been using my direct deposit account for about 18 months now and the allotment arrives like clockwork on the first business day of the month with mentioned adjustment for any weekend/holiday. And to be clear, DFAS is just using the ACH address of Bangkok Bank NY to effect the transfer which basically cuts out those fees charged by a sending bank like you were doing an ad hoc transfer...and we all know some of those sending bank fees, especially SWIFT fees, can be HIGH! But some banks, such as BofA, have ACH fees as low as $3.

As just mentioned, there are the fees, but they are definitely cheaper than SWIFT fees, and even cheaper if using a ACH, since there are no SWIFT or ACH fees on top of the $5 to $10 slice ($10 when transferring over $2000) the Bangkok NY branch takes and the 0.25% (200 min to 500 Baht) slice on the in-Thailand end. You don't have to appear at a stand alone bank...it can be any Bangkok Bank branch outlet that are located in many, many shopping locations like Lotus, Big C, malls, etc. Additionally, I expect you are spending a fairly constant base amount each month for day-to-day living expenses...you might want to consider sending X-amount monthly on an allotment setup, and then on a periodic basis send what ever additional amounts you may need. You remaining pension amount just continue to go to your stateside bank. It will vary from individual-to-individual how the total fees would price-out, say over a year's worth of automatic and ad hoc transfers. Or, do you want all your money in just one bank account/a regular account which can include ATM / internet / telephone access where money has more liberation routes like "kinda being withdrawn by persons unknown through an ATM phantom withdrawal."

Using the ACH method for us US folks is definitely cheaper than SWIFT transfers. It may take a few extra days (but some banks will do a ACH transfer same day for a higher fee), but the ACH transfer fee say for a 3 day transfer is definitely a lot, lot cheaper than a SWIFT transfer fee. Even same day ACH transfer fees offered by some banks is cheaper than SWIFT fees. But the automatic US govt pension/allotment ACH transfer we are talking about is not delayed; it occurs/arrives the first business day of each month since DFAS/US govt acting like a sending bank is not delaying the transfer/holding onto your money until the last possible minute. Besides, the govt will get some of it back throught taxes on your income tax return (grin).

Regarding what if you croak, get laid up, how does the wife access the funds? That is a drawback "and also a core reason behind / for the direct deposit account" for US govt pensions, like military, civil service, social security, etc., which by law are to stop upon the pensioner's death. What has happened over the years is a pensioner has croaked, the spouse/family is suppose to quickly notify the govt of the death, but either intentionally or unintentionally, the spouse/family members do not notify the govt and the pension check continues to roll in month after month and be spent by the spouse/family members. There are US laws requiring the quick notifications (preaching to the choir I know) and Bangkok Bank and other Thai banks try to comply with this law since it involves a lot of dollars flowing every month....banks like money.

So, if "you" can't show up in person to withdraw your money "you just may be dead" and Bangkok Bank won't allow any withdrawal. Once Bangkok Bank and/or US govt find out you have croaked any pensions amounts received "after your date of death" will be frozen/withheld so they can be returned to the US Govt. Any remaining amounts in the account become part of your estate and the wife/family would eventually get it via the probate/your will/beneficiary/etc process. But I expect if you were laid up in the hospital you could get a Bangkok Bank representative to come to you to verify your identify, verify you are still breathing, sign a withdrawal/transfer slip, get some money into your pocket / your other account. I really don't know if they might do this...I just know Bangkok Bank has always been very customer supportive in my dealings with them...and most businesses/agencies do have special procedures for emergency/unique situations like hospitalization.

I see this type of direct deposit account setup as a good vehicle for "some" people, to be used for basic/known/reoccurring living expenses, possibly reduce your transfer fees (will depend on your situation), and it provides a more secure account if a person is having problems in money kinda disappearing through mysterious ATM withdrawals....like the spouse/girl friend/family member/etc., sneaking off with your ATM card for a quick withdrawal while you sleep because they know your PIN. Or, just sole use of a joint account where the spouse/family members have easy access. I'm not implying anything here...I'm just suggesting each person's situation is different. Additionally, it helps ensure a continuous flow of money each month in those cases/times where you can't do an ad hoc transfer via your stateside bank because of whatever reason (and there seem to be no shortage of typical and unique reasons from reading TV posts).

In my case, a few months after setting up the automatic allotment with DFAS, Bangkok Bank sent me the letter that they couldn't continue to receive the automatic govt transfer (the transfers having coding on them when they arrive) unless I came in and setup a direct deport account...and in my case having a direct deposit account and another separate regular account worked out best...so, I set up the direct deposit account to allow the monthly govt allotment/pension to continue its automatic flow to my Bangkok Bank account. Setup of the direct deposit account is quick and easy.

I scanned in/attached a portion of one key form you sign when creating a Bangkok Bank direct deposit account...I think it basically explains the driver behind such accounts and how they can be used. Cheers. Go USAF!

[OJAS]

Bangkok Bank direct deposit accounts are required if you are US citizen with a govt pension/allotment being sent automatically periodically, like every month, to Bangkok Bank. Bangkok Bank will eventually require a person to setup a direct deposit account to receive a monthly "US govt" allotment/pension and this account is in the individual's name only; no joint accounts.

Is there a similar Bangkok Bank requirement for UK citizens like myself? I am in receipt of a govt pension as a retired employee (as distinct from the UK State Pension to which I won’t become entitled for another 4 years)?

The reason I ask is because I am seriously thinking of switching my allegiance to Bangkok Bank in view of both Suradit’s positive comment about them in this thread and the complimentary responses to my thread on the banking forum at http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/422248-attention-bangkok-bank-savings-account-holders/

[Pib]

Bangkok Bank direct deposit accounts are required if you are US citizen with a govt pension/allotment being sent automatically periodically, like every month, to Bangkok Bank. Bangkok Bank will eventually require a person to setup a direct deposit account to receive a monthly "US govt" allotment/pension and this account is in the individual's name only; no joint accounts.

Is there a similar Bangkok Bank requirement for UK citizens like myself? I am in receipt of a govt pension as a retired employee (as distinct from the UK State Pension to which I won't become entitled for another 4 years)?

The reason I ask is because I am seriously thinking of switching my allegiance to Bangkok Bank in view of both Suradit's positive comment about them in this thread and the complimentary responses to my thread on the banking forum at http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/422248-attention-bangkok-bank-savings-account-holders/

Don't know if this Bangkok Bank link regarding Transfer of funds from the UK to Thailand might be helpful. Cheers.

http://www.bangkokbank.com/Bangkok%20Bank/Personal%20Banking/Transfering%20Funds/Receiving%20Funds/Pages/Receiving%20Funds%20from%20UK.aspx

[lopburi3]

Pib:

I see no sense with your system of direct deposit as I can do the same with USAA account into any Bangkok Bank account without a need to visit bank to withdraw money at exactly the same costs. There is no fee for ACH transfers by US bank (up to six per month) so only the same deduction at Bangkok Bank New York and the baht deduction in Bangkok. If I want to make it a regular scheduled transfer that can also be done online with USAA bank.

[jfchandler]

Re the OP's original question, I can't say that I've heard of any mystery bank withdrawals impeding an extension of stay application... However, there have been plenty of news reports here on ThaiVisa and elsewhere of Thai bank employees illegally siphoning off bank deposits of customers and various other kinds of internal fraud. And the Thai banks haven't always been exactly helpful to the defrauded customers in those kinds of situations, based on the news reports. Hardly a lot to inspire confidence in the local banking establishment.

As for the question of accessing funds, the BKK Bank transfer method works well enough as explained above, particularly if the original U.S. bank a person is using to send the funds via ACH has no fee for doing so, such as USAA, E-Trade and many others...

However, I have a different method, and a more cost efficient one that I prefer, that doesn't risk keeping a lot of funds on deposit in Thai banks, and entirely avoids the international transfer fees. It's simply to have my government pension payment deposited into a U.S. bank that charges no foreign currency fee for using its ATM card abroad, and then to withdraw those funds as needed here via either AEON or CitiBank ATMs, which don't charge any ATM fees. It may not be convenient for everyone, but especially for anyone living in Bangkok, it's the best financial approach and usually relatively convenient as well... Plus no required bank office visits. And no worries about crime minded Thai bank employees.

[OJAS]

Don't know if this Bangkok Bank link regarding Transfer of funds from the UK to Thailand might be helpful. Cheers.

http://www.bangkokba...0from%20UK.aspx

Many thanks, Pib. Very useful.

[OJAS]

However, there have been plenty of news reports here on ThaiVisa and elsewhere of Thai bank employees illegally siphoning off bank deposits of customers and various other kinds of internal fraud. And the Thai banks haven't always been exactly helpful to the defrauded customers in those kinds of situations, based on the news reports. Hardly a lot to inspire confidence in the local banking establishment.

I strongly suspect that this is, indeed, what has happened in my case, given the isolated nature of the incidents (a further check of my Kasikorn account today has not revealed any more dodgy withdrawals since the latest one on 22 Nov). I really cannot see how I could have been the victim of rigged ATM's & cloned cards (as several of the respondents to my thread at http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/421728-phantom-atm-cash-withdrawals/ seemed to believe), bearing in mind that I jealously keep my ATM cards & associated PIN's closely guarded at all times.

The answer to the question posed in the sub-title to that thread (Are they an inevitable fact of life in LOS?), therefore, would seem to be a positive one. In other words, no amount of card-changing or even bank-switching would presumably minimise (let alone eliminate) the risk.

[Pib]

Pib:

I see no sense with your system of direct deposit as I can do the same with USAA account into any Bangkok Bank account without a need to visit bank to withdraw money at exactly the same costs. There is no fee for ACH transfers by US bank (up to six per month) so only the same deduction at Bangkok Bank New York and the baht deduction in Bangkok. If I want to make it a regular scheduled transfer that can also be done online with USAA bank.

In my case with BofA there is a fee for an ACH transfer to an outside bank such as Bangkok Bank NY Branch...a $3 fee for a 3 day transfer. Additionally, BofA implemented a SafePass program where if you want to transfer more than $1000 you must receive a password delivered by SMS to your cell phone (only US based cell phone systems) or get a SafePass card issued (looks like a credit card...press a button and it issues you a limited time code) which can only be mailed to US addresses within the 50 States/Guan/PR...APO addresses not included. I did end up getting a SafePass card after about 6 months of trying...mailed to my sister's address and then remailed. Bascially, BofA turned into a pain in transferring amounts over $1000 unless you lived within the US and my other US banks they pretty much just used SWIFT transfers. Have heard good reports on USAA although I've heard they are cutting back on some frebie's like free ATM withdrawals if overseas. I'm also a USAA member as of a few years ago but never signed up for their banking products But for the many without a USAA banking account and wanting to have all/a portion of the govt pension sent to Bangkok Bank via direct deposit, the system I decribed works like a clock.

[jfchandler]

Pib, there are LOTS of U.S. banking options that don't charge for domestic outbound ACH transfers, unlike BofA, and would be far more customer friendly to someone living outside the U.S. than BofA is... And I say that knowing BofA extremely well, having been a customer of theirs in the U.S. for decades.....

Someone may have personal or financial reasons based in the U.S. for wanting to continue with BofA. But on strictly financial terms, they're about as bad a deal as it gets for anyone living outside the U.S.

[Pib]

Don't know about the LOTS part, especially when considering what would be available to most everyone and easy to setup with a Thailand residence. Plus, closing and opening bank accounts can be a semi-pain just to save a little on one or a few small fees. And actually, since I've got my BofA SafePass card, funds transfers over $1000 hasn't been an issue (I've tried it a few times). The only bad experience I have with BofA over many years I've been with them is a few times in transferring money to Thailand when BofA for some reason temporarily dropped Bangkok Bank NY from their list of authorized ACH transfer banks....and also when BofA switched to the SafePass setup for transfers over $1000.

Plus, the great majority of the funds transfer costs to Bangkok Bank using ACH is not the low cost or nothing ACH fee, but the Bangkok Bank NY and local Bangkok Bank transfer fees. The $3 ACH BofA fee don't bother me and the DFAS no fee charge is definitely OK since it also provides another vehicle to easily transfer money to Thailand. . In fact, switching from a direct deposit/allotment from DFAS to my direct deposit Bangkok Bank account to sending money every two months from BofA (twice the normal dollar amount since it would only be every two months) to my regular Bangkok Bank account or deposit only account in order to lower already low ACH costs a little would only save me an average of 18 cents per month...doing a monthly BofA ACH transfer would cost me $3 more than a direct from DFAS transfer. I priced it out again tonight. Each person's situation and banking setup/preference will be different. Cheers.

Edited December 3, 2010 by Pib

[jfchandler]

Pib, that's a very long and detailed explanation that manages to miss entirely the simple point I was making...

You can do exactly the same thing as you're doing now with BofA, except use a different U.S. bank that won't charge you $3 every time you do a domestic ACH... That's not too complicated an idea to grasp...

Yes, having access to a U.S. address is generally a necessary thing in opening new bank accounts. But then again, maintaining some kind of U.S. address is something that most U.S. folks probably consider a valuable and useful thing for a variety of reasons.

[JimGant]

Doesn't compute...

If I had both our Social Security checks direct deposited to Bangkok Bank, that would be $10 front-end ($5 each), and 400 baht back-end. Air Force check: $10 plus 285 baht. Total: $20 and 685bt. Plus, the wife would have to have her own direct deposit account -- and make her own in-person appearances to withdraw.

As it is, SS checks and pensions are direct deposited to USAA. And funds, as needed, are ACHed to Thailand -- in large enough amounts to cost $10/500bt. Plus, I don't do this every month, preferring to send larger amounts less frequently. And, I sure have no requirement to have my gov't payments in Thailand same day as payday -- that USAA has always only taken two business days from on-line initiation to arrival in Thailand is just fine with me -- plus no fee (they don't have CashEdge in the middle, to add fees, and slow things down, like BofA has).

So, in two months time, I save about $60 over the direct deposit method. But this savings is nothing compared to the flexibility of international cash management on my time table, plus no need for an in-person visit to the bank.

it helps ensure a continuous flow of money each month in those cases/times where you can't do an ad hoc transfer via your stateside bank because of whatever reason (and there seem to be no shortage of typical and unique reasons from reading TV posts).

I can't imagine never being able to contact USAA on-line; or failing that, via phone (to their in-country toll-free number, no less). Plus, the USAA account is joint, so the wife is there if I'm totally out of it.

Also, I see no advantage for direct deposit when you die too close to when the electronic checks are mailed. USAA is, I'm sure, better to deal with sending overpayment checks back to DFAS and Social Security. Bangkok Bank has ways of dealing with this, no doubt, but reversing fees (or, more likely, adding fees..) -- and dealing with an exchange rate that's changed -- could prove interesting. How does Uncle Sugar deal with getting less back than what he originally sent you....? Just more hurdles.

But more importantly, the wife knows what to do vis-a-vis DFAS, Social Security, and USAA. A rather simple matter to stop my pension, and start her Survivor Benefit Plan -- to go to the same joint USAA account. To have her SBP money in limbo, while she fussed with establishing a new direct deposit account with Bangkok Bank, would be kinda messy.

Anyway, different strokes.... But, as currently setup, it doesn't make much sense.

Now, if Thailand were to get on the approved IDD list -- and Gov't payments could then be sent thru the Federal Reserve Bank -- and there would be no requirement for a direct deposit account -- that maybe would require another look. Or not...

[Pib]

Yea, you definitely wouldn't want to direct deposit/transfer to Thailand several monthly pensions on an individual/monthly basis from any agency/bank as the various fees would add up from the multiple monthly transfers, even if the only fees were from the Bangkok Bank side. I wouldn't do it either. Sounds like you have a good setup with USAA regarding the ACH outbound fee and your ducks lined up.

Now if we can only figure out a way to not incur the Bangkok Bank transfer fees, which is the great bulk of the fees in an ACH initiated transfer (or the only fees for folks with banks that charge no outbound ACH fees like USAA), then we could all end up with a few more baht in our accounts. And I'm not quite ready to try the AEON/Citybank ATM card approach that jfchandler mentioned in post 15...but glad it works for him.

Cheers.

[Pib]

As FYI for lopburi3, jimgant, and jfchandler, you may remember in one of above posts I mentioned I have had USAA membership for a couple of years but never signed up for any of their banking products. Well, that changed this afternoon by signing up for a USAA checking and savings accounts (including the debit/ATM card). Transferred funds from one of my bank accounts (not the BofA account) I was getting ready to close anyway. It's amazing how a person can build up multiple bank accounts during their past life. Only took about 10 minutes to complete the accounts setup process. We'll see how well the USAA accounts/features work out as I test run them over the coming months. Thanks and Cheers.

[jfchandler]

Another nice feature of USAA, depending on what kind of account status you have, is their relatively new ability to remote/online deposit checks, which can come in pretty handy round these parts...

Another top flight institution that has an even more accessible program for remote depositing checks in Pentagon Federal Credit Union, which kind of has the military community as its primary customer base but also is open to the general public by joining a non-profit association. PFCU regularly offers pretty much the best/highest FDIC insured CD rates to be found anywhere and is one of the largest credit unions in the country...

Both USAA and PFCU, as well as expat friendly Charles Schwab Bank, put BofA to shame for anyone living outside the U.S.

[JimGant]

Pib,

I think you'll be happy with USAA's operation.

If you haven't already set-up for transfers from USAA thru BB NY, choose the "push only." I can't remember the exact wording, but, essentially, you're saying you don't own the external account, and therefore can only "send" from USAA, not receive. Thus, no 'trial deposits' take place. And, of course, you can't "pull" from your BB Thailand account back into the ACH system -- so setting-up per the above eliminates a couple of extra steps that will happen between you and USAA -- although, all ends well in this scenario too.

The daily ACH transfer limit out of USAA is $5000. However, I upped this to $30k with a phone call -- and a follow-up fax for their records. Reviewing the fax, I said a "permanent transfer limit," which jogged my memory that you need to differentiate from a 'one-time' request.

I've sent up to $20k (most recently, a month ago) without any problems. I've never tried larger amounts, as somewhere I had read that amounts over $20k required an extra SWIFT message as to "purpose" (and these ACH transfers *do* become SWIFT encoded on their journey from BB NY to BB Thailand). However, I've SWIFT wired funds from USAA well over $20k to my BB account -- and have never ever encountered a "purpose" requirement. So, who knows.... Anyway, FYI that up to $20k is fine -- as I've also heard folks say anything over $10k with this ACH tranfer via BB NY would get you a "tilt." Maybe with BofA -- but not with USAA.

[sausage911]

As regards to the OP, this happened to me.

I checked the bank account after two months just to make sure everything was OK and the bank had taken a commission out for a new ATm card along with a transfer fee from a different account. This now put me 75 Baht below the 800,000. I deposited the extra cash immediately, the bank just said, "Oh sorry mister"

When I went to Immigration for the extension of stay they noticed the discrepancy and refused the visa. The chief at Immigration said that had the account been topped back up within 3 days they could over see the problem. She suggested I go to Ranong and do a visa run then return to Immigration the next day. She then issued a 3 month Non-O visa which covered the time for the 800,000 to mature again.

It wasn't a huge problem and there was an Australian woman in the same situation on the same day. Phuket Immigration was very helpful and they understood totally and sorted out the visa.

[spidermike007]

In eight years of reading this forum I have never seen any such report. And I have had accounts here for more years than that and have never had any unexplained withdrawals so don't believe it is a frequent occurrence.

I could not agree more. Despite the normal tendency of many readers to rant on the Thai people, the reality is that the Thai banks are some of the best run banks in the world. There is a reason why they escaped the world banking crisis. Have you ever stopped to ponder that fact? The management is superb, the stock prices are relatively high, the fraud is minimal (despite the occasional scams all banks are subject to), and the security protocols are world class. So where do these conjectures come from? Bashing Thai people and systems may be a hobby some of you guys find to be fun, but there is no objectivity in it, so unless you are willing, and able to back these theories up with some facts, save us your venom. Keep it to yourselves. Suffer on your own. Get a life please.

[Pib]

JimGant,

Thanks.. and yes, I noticed that $5K USAA limit...I'll definitely try to get that raised.. I began the setup of non-USAA accounts for transfers yesterday. Didn't see anything about the "push only" only option. Maybe I just missed it. In setting of the transfers, each time USAA walked me through a short process of saying we are going to do some trial deposits within a few business days, I need to find out the amounts of the trail deposits, and then log back onto my USAA account and validate by entering the test amounts....then the transfer capability to that bank will be fully activated This was for every bank account I setup, BofA, Bangkok Bank, etc. This is the same way BofA (and PayPal) validates external bank accounts by using trail deposits. No biggie, it's easy to find out the amount of the trail deposits with Bangkok Bank. I think since BofA has implemented SafePass which requires issue of a time-limited, one-time code delivered via cell phone or from your SafePass card for any transfer over $1K, that the outbound limits have got more liberal.

Regarding BofA current limits their internet banking web site just says, " No limits apply for outbound transactions, but all Transfers Outside the Bank are subject to an internal risk screen. In the event that the bank determines that the risks associated with a particular transaction require that it be delayed or canceled, we will notify you. We may request that you provide additional details on the transaction before we continue processing it." Now, I've done $20K once, $10K twice, and $5K numerous times to Bangkok Bank...and the funds transferred flowed with no questions asked...flowed just like say a $1K, low dollar transfer....just a $3 fee for the outbound ACH fee regardless of amount and 3 business days later the money was in my Bangkok Bank account. Maybe the levels that appear to be higher now is due to the SafePass security layer, maybe varies from individual to individual, maybe security risks of the day, etc. Hard telling since banks keep a close hold on some funds transfers specifics, which is probably a good thing. And I definitely won't try "pulling/transferring" money from Bangkok Bank via USAA since we know Thai banks just don't like/allow baht to transfer out of Thailand except under certain conditions.

I'll definitely be keeping my BofA account due to their outstanding internet banking functions and some products; plus, since bank policies can change overnight having a couple different banks can hopefully provide Plan B in case Plan A no longer works. I will probably like the USAA account for no other reason than their no-fee for ACH outbound transfers...and hopefully some of their other products are outstanding. As far as I'm concerned, it kinda like renewing auto insurance--a person should always shop around before automatically renewing with the same company and that company may no longer be the best deal. But what I definitely like is whenever I can reduce the fees associated with getting money sent, and the USAA account will allow that...."I just hate paying bank fees for use of my own money."

Thanks again and cheers.

Pib

Edited December 5, 2010 by Pib

[BigJohnnyBKK]

I also haven't had any problems with thieving withdrawals. However, I do think it is more widespread here than in western countries, though that doesn't mean it is common either. In case of immigration accepting a bank account going under 800K for ANY reason for a retirement extension based on that, I reckon they would NOT approve such applications.

In my direct experience the individual officer has a certain amount of leeway to take extenuating circumstances into account. If you establish some personal rapport with them and they have empathy for your situation they can (and do) make exceptions, especially if doing so is for the greater good (ie the benefit of Thailand).

This of course includes - but is not limited to - financial considerations.