What Will Be Yamaha'S Next Move In Thailand?

[jackcorbett]

Focusing in particularly on Yamaha's flagship automatic---its 135 c.c. Nouvo Elegance, it's apparent that Honda has recently dramatically taken the upper hand. In Thailand, Yamaha was first with a viable automatic. Honda lagged, and finally realizing it had completely missed the boat it came out with its Air Blade with a water cooled engine and other innovations that in my opinion put it on top in the automatic "scooter" category. Then Yamaha substantially improved its Nouvo flagship model by increasing its engine size from 115 cc's to 135, horsepower from about 8.9 to 11.2, and like Honda water cooled its engine. The engine was and is much quieter than the old model and overall handling of the bike was much improved. The result in my opinion is Yamaha was thoroughly trouncing Honda's Air Blade in most meaningful categories with its Nouvo Elegance 135 c.c. flagship model. Meanwhile Yamaha did well with its Mio and Fino models. But a few months ago, Honda replaced its 110 c.c. Air Blade with the PCX which this time put Honda far in front. Even though it's substantially heavier than the Nouvo Elegance and has a smaller engine (once again) (125 cc's to Yamaha's 135) my seat of the pants comparison between the two bikes has the Elegance and the PCX having roughly comparable performance with the Elegance still slightly on top. However, with its larger fuel tank, stop start idling feature, fuel injection, slightly smaller engine displacement and other engineering features, the PCX has much greater range than the Nouvo Elegance and it has better fuel economy. To my eye, its styling is far superior. Its color schemes are far more attractive. For instance, one of my neighbors has a black PCX. The only other major color on the entire bike is its seat which is a chocolate brown that contrasts very nicely with the rest of the machine. There is a noticeable absence of decals on the bike. In my opinion decals belong only on Formula One and Indy 500 racing cars. Its lines are rakish and uncluttered. Even the rear view mirrors on the PCX are vastly better than those on the Elegance. And now the 2011 models are soon going to come out and from the pictures I've seen, the candy red color is so sensational that I'm almost ready to trade in my Elegance for the color alone. Meanwhile Yamaha has just recently come up with its new color schemes. They are absolutely horrific. So, what I'm now seeing is one helluva lot of PCX's suddenly appearing on Pattaya's streets and hardly any evidence of many new Yamaha Elegances being sold. Meanwhile Honda's recently seriously upgraded its CBR 150 while following up this latest act with the introduction of a new single cylinder 250 that to my mind at least should be sensational. In my opinion, Yamaha is going to have to come up with something sensational in the near future to replace its present Nouvo Elegance and possibly introduce other types of newer models. It certainly has the resources and the technology to do so. So what do the rest of you think Yamaha's going to be putting on the Thai market in the next few months or year?

Edited December 11, 2010 by jackcorbett

[CMX]

Sheeze, Jack,

I no sooner add a (second hand) Yamaha NE to my stable (your raves added up), and you find it deficient.

But seriously, Honda has challenged Yamaha on several fronts. The Scoopy has to be cutting deeply into Fino sales. At least, I'm seeing Scoopies by the hundreds in parking lots.

Like you, I find the 2011 scrolling and colors on the NE to be distasteful. I too like the PCX, and it might challenge the Elegance. But I find them different animals, price aside (but it is not). I love the PCX, but it is bulbous. I suspect that it is manufactured at 125cc for those European countries that let you drive that size and down without a motorcycle license. Anyway, without mods, I doubt it can challenge the Elegance for top speed. Strange to say, but the "Elegance" is less pretentious than the "Prestige" - more of a work horse. The PCX is a lovely elephant, with a mouse inside as a motor.

In another sense, however, you've answered your own question. Yamaha is going to respond by changing the paint and decals. Their 2011 models are just out, and "same-same" comes to mind.

Edited December 11, 2010 by CMX

[nikster]

I saw some totally new Yamaha models out front of the Yamaha square passing by yesterday. I only caught a very short glimpse but they were a bit Fino-like yet with the headlight in the lower front fairing rather than up as in the Fino.

Oh, all right, it's the Yamaha Fiore

http://www.yamaha-motor.co.th/Product/Product.aspx?ProductID=94

Yamaha is currently pulling a Honda - doing nothing for years on end, not improving or updating any models, and they seem to have a color blind person in charge of the Fino - how they can screw up a beautiful design like the Fino for years on end is quite unbelievable.

Meanwhile Honda's releasing all sorts of Scoopy versions, special versions, special colors, etc, they're totally killing the Fino. Scoopy is more modern with FI, uses less gas, it's a Honda, and there's hundreds of color varieties.

Edit: Just look at this - the colors are lame, and the stickers look like somebody threw up on these bikes. Yikes!! http://www.yamaha-motor.co.th/Product/Product.aspx?ProductID=86

Edited December 11, 2010 by nikster

[katabeachbum]

I saw some totally new Yamaha models out front of the Yamaha square passing by yesterday. I only caught a very short glimpse but they were a bit Fino-like yet with the headlight in the lower front fairing rather than up as in the Fino.

Oh, all right, it's the Yamaha Fiore

http://www.yamaha-mo...px?ProductID=94

Yamaha is currently pulling a Honda - doing nothing for years on end, not improving or updating any models, and they seem to have a color blind person in charge of the Fino - how they can screw up a beautiful design like the Fino for years on end is quite unbelievable.

Meanwhile Honda's releasing all sorts of Scoopy versions, special versions, special colors, etc, they're totally killing the Fino. Scoopy is more modern with FI, uses less gas, it's a Honda, and there's hundreds of color varieties.

Edit: Just look at this - the colors are lame, and the stickers look like somebody threw up on these bikes. Yikes!! http://www.yamaha-mo...px?ProductID=86

Love the design of the Fino, but present colors are but ugly and the 115cc carbed with manual choke was dated 3 years ago. Mio has a new engine and is basicly same bike, so why continue Fino with old crap?

No wonder Scoopy is selling

[jackcorbett]

I'm not knocking your decision to add a second Elegance to your stable at all. After all, the wire rimmed Elegance model comes in at 52,000 baht and the PCX costs around 70,000 baht. Furthermore, I weigh just 77 kilos, so the Elegance feels just fine to me. But my buddy David for years has been talking up the T-Max. When I told him it costs 500,000 to 600,000 baht he disagreed with me vehemently. He's already got a truck and an Air Blade so he certainly does not need to be spending double what the T-Max costs in the U.S. no matter how good of a bike IT IS IN THE U.S. David weighs about 120 kilos. The fact of the matter is David is one of your typical Western guys who lives here, comes here on holiday and is around 60. He's a large guy who's picked up a lot of extra weight through the years, so for him a Nouvo Elegance is not going to seem as comfortable as a PCX. Yesterday I took him to the local Honda dealer to show him the PCX's and he wound up going out and renting one just one hour later. I think Honda is smart. Most Thais are not going to be plucking down 70,000 baht for a "bulbous" bike when they can get something that might perform even better for substantially less money. The PCX also has fat tires so it's going to have an edge stability wise over a smaller lighter machine that has skinnier tires, especially if it's carrying a lot of weight such as a 120 kilogram Westerner carrying his girlfriend or even another guy on the back. I've already said I don't notice much difference between my Nouvo Elegance and my neighbor's PCX in acceleration. But I only took his PCX up to around 50 kmph or so. If I had both bikes accelerating against each other on Sukamvit road and took both machines up to say 90 kmph I'd bet the farm on my Nouvo Elegance. First off, from what I can see after reading road tests on motorbikes for over thirty years, Yamaha usually out horsepowers Hondas. And Yamaha's Elegance does have 135 cc's to the Honda PCX's 125. Add a forty to fifty pound weight advantage to the Nouvo Elegance and it simply has to be faster.

There's hooks and railings all over the Nouvo Elegance and I've strapped all sorts of stuff to the back of my Elegance using bungee cords, from a desktop computer (which I've taken into the shop more than half a dozen times) to a Roman pillum (spear) I bought, picked up at the post office and then brought back to my condo. You simply cannot do that with the PCX. There is one set of bars in particular I used to frequent and will probably frequent again and when I visit these bars I either jump the curb or use a makeshift ramp that's been placed there so that I can park right next to the bars instead of having to park out on the street. If I did this with an Air Blade I'd be scraping the bottom of the bike on the curb due to its having significantly less ground clearance. The Nouvo Elegance is most definitely a trimmer bike so it's going to be easier to park and its going to be better at threading through traffic than the PCX. In fact when driving through Pattaya I'd bet the Nouvo Elegance is going to be faster than a 1000 c.c. Wunderbike in most circumstances due to its ability to thread through much tighter breaks in the traffic.

Like you I love my Elegance because it does everything I need it to do so well. So although it might be perfect for us, Honda has successfully marketed a product that does a wonderful job for the average end user who probably doesn't go around strapping desktop computers to his bike, who does not drive to the supermarket with his girlfriend to bring 11 bags of groceries back. The end user is likely to be a heavy guy and a heavy guys will want a much heavier bike. Several things I would have done if I were Yamaha several years ago. First off, I would have somehow sandwiched a substantially larger fuel tank in to replace its present 4,8 liter tank. I think a 7 liter tanks for example would not have been too big a challenge. I'd be putting good mirrors on it. And I'd have fuel injected it some time ago even if I did have to charge more for the bike. I'd have that 135 engine producing 13 or 14 horsepower and I'd be crowing as loud as I could that Yamaha was out horse-powering Honda Air Blades and PCX's to the tune of 30 to 50 %. I'd have been painting the Elegance a single solid color and had a contrasting color for the seat. I just went downstairs to look at one of my neighbor's Elegances. There was writing in only two places. There was an inscription spellling out PCX and in the front of the bike a small inscription reading "Prestige." Every single bike in my condo parking lot looks cluttered and downright cheap in comparison. As for the fuel injection, my friend David, came out with the rental PCX he had just picked up and I drove my Elegance right next to his in front of my condo building. I wanted to see if the PCX rear view mirrors would work on my Elegance so we had an excellent side by side comparison. A man working in a real estate office in my building came out to talk to us about the two bikes. He said, "The only trouble with that Elegance is it lacks fuel injection. Personally I don't think the guy needs fuel injection. I don't think he would be able to tell if a bike has fuel injection or not. David's had a carburated Air Blade for over three years now and I've had Nouvos without fuel injection for five years with no problems for either one of us. My point though is whether it is necessary or desirable or not, we are conditioned to believe we absolutely need fuel injection and therefore we are willing to pay a lot more money just to have it. So although we might have the best bikes "for us" bar none, that's not the way the average prospective purchaser is seeing it.

Sheeze, Jack,

I no sooner add a (second hand) Yamaha NE to my stable (your raves added up), and you find it deficient.

But seriously, Honda has challenged Yamaha on several fronts. The Scoopy has to be cutting deeply into Fino sales. At least, I'm seeing Scoopies by the hundreds in parking lots.

Like you, I find the 2011 scrolling and colors on the NE to be distasteful. I too like the PCX, and it might challenge the Elegance. But I find them different animals, price aside (but it is not). I love the PCX, but it is bulbous. I suspect that it is manufactured at 125cc for those European countries that let you drive that size and down without a motorcycle license. Anyway, without mods, I doubt it can challenge the Elegance for top speed. Strange to say, but the "Elegance" is less pretentious than the "Prestige" - more of a work horse. The PCX is a lovely elephant, with a mouse inside as a motor.

In another sense, however, you've answered your own question. Yamaha is going to respond by changing the paint and decals. Their 2011 models are just out, and "same-same" comes to mind.

Edited December 11, 2010 by jackcorbett

[jackcorbett]

I saw some totally new Yamaha models out front of the Yamaha square passing by yesterday. I only caught a very short glimpse but they were a bit Fino-like yet with the headlight in the lower front fairing rather than up as in the Fino.

Oh, all right, it's the Yamaha Fiore

http://www.yamaha-mo...px?ProductID=94

Yamaha is currently pulling a Honda - doing nothing for years on end, not improving or updating any models, and they seem to have a color blind person in charge of the Fino - how they can screw up a beautiful design like the Fino for years on end is quite unbelievable.

Meanwhile Honda's releasing all sorts of Scoopy versions, special versions, special colors, etc, they're totally killing the Fino. Scoopy is more modern with FI, uses less gas, it's a Honda, and there's hundreds of color varieties.

Edit: Just look at this - the colors are lame, and the stickers look like somebody threw up on these bikes. Yikes!! http://www.yamaha-mo...px?ProductID=86

The fino used to come out in gorgeous colors and nothing out there could touch it for beauty. I had bought an ex girlfriend a red one........it was solid red that is and I'd be in a bar looking across the street at it admiring its beauty. The guy who's been picking the color schemes out for the Fino, not to mention the Nouvo's should have been put out to pasture a long time ago.

[nikster]

Edit: Just look at this - the colors are lame, and the stickers look like somebody threw up on these bikes. Yikes!! http://www.yamaha-mo...px?ProductID=86

The fino used to come out in gorgeous colors and nothing out there could touch it for beauty...

I know - totally agree too. All the initial models were fantastic - black, mocca, dark red, metallic green - all of these bikes were fantastic looking. And now... yikes! If your bikes don't look cool, they're not gonna sell... I am surprised they're selling any of them. It's such a shame...

[nikster]

I just read about the Fiore - it has fuel injection. If you remove the stickers, the colors are pretty nice too.

[CMX]

On the other hand, these finishes are calculated to appeal to young Thais, whose tastes I don't know and never will. It is not so much a designer as marketing research who rules appearances. Stands to reason what I like is completely unrelated to what the majority of buyers will prefer.

[jackcorbett]

On the other hand, these finishes are calculated to appeal to young Thais, whose tastes I don't know and never will. It is not so much a designer as marketing research who rules appearances. Stands to reason what I like is completely unrelated to what the majority of buyers will prefer.

I totally disagree with you. Both the Yamaha Nouvo Elegance and the Honda PCX appeal to basically the same type of buyer, one who wants excellent high end stuff whether he's a Westerner or Thai. High end buyers usually have good tastes regardless of what country they come from. Honda improved its color schemes before the PCX even came out. Example in point, its Honda Click which initially was offered in some really mundane uninspiring colors. For that matter same same with the Air Blade. Then the Air Blade came out in Phoenix red, which still is a great color and at about the same time the appearance of the Click was much improved. The reason the PCX is so well styled and has such brilliant color schemes is Honda obviously did its marketing research whereas Yamaha either hasn't or the person/person who's been deciding on the colors is incompetent. The individual might well be another fine example of Nepotism raising its ugly head. The marketing research might well have been done with the resulting recommendations being thrown out. Yamaha should hold its head in shame for allowing such morons to have their way because Yamaha is really an excellent company, that puts out motorbikes whose quality is believed by many to lead the pack. And it certainly can offer up two wheeled machinery that has looks that are unrivaled in their class. One example of this is the T Max which I find to be absolutely gorgeous having impeccable craftsmanship, and unequaled performance in its market segment. But as good as it is, it's too much bike at too high a price for most of us to seriously consider for driving around this neck of the woods.

[CMX]

I suppose that the Fiore can be called Yamaha's next move. Not only does it have fuel injection, all models come with alloy wheels. Tires are 12", but 90/90. I was quite surprised to see a decent sized underseat storage area - they call it 17 liters. That is a high priority for me.

Models in the brochure are all young and female, and stylin' - as if the bike is aimed at women and fashion counts. Comes in three series: cool, cute, and chic. Implication throughout the brochure is that the bike is a fashion statement (which cannot be denied). If I didn't have three bikes in the barn now, I'd probably opt for a chic model, the green one if the stickers come off. I could pretend it was a Ninja, or British racing green.

As for these appearances, Jack, I bow while saluting. No way can I suppose that I have any vague idea about what Thai kids want.

[jackcorbett]

I suppose that the Fiore can be called Yamaha's next move. Not only does it have fuel injection, all models come with alloy wheels. Tires are 12", but 90/90. I was quite surprised to see a decent sized underseat storage area - they call it 17 liters. That is a high priority for me.

Models in the brochure are all young and female, and stylin' - as if the bike is aimed at women and fashion counts. Comes in three series: cool, cute, and chic. Implication throughout the brochure is that the bike is a fashion statement (which cannot be denied). If I didn't have three bikes in the barn now, I'd probably opt for a chic model, the green one if the stickers come off. I could pretend it was a Ninja, or British racing green.

As for these appearances, Jack, I bow while saluting. No way can I suppose that I have any vague idea about what Thai kids want.

I think you could do your own demographic survey and get a pretty good idea of what young Thai kids want. Let me ask you this? How many young Thai guys have you seen driving Yamaha Nouvos around Pattaya? Well, the young taxi driver up the street (he drove a car for his taxi) has a Yamaha Nouvo Elegance. But he's the exception as i don't know many young Thais who have Nouvos. He has no use for the PCX which he views as overly large, even elephant like, won't handle with a Nouvo Elegance and is much slower. I don't quite see it that way but he does. He likes speed or at least the illusion of speed. Now, how many young Thai guys have you seen driving CBR 150's? A lot more than you will see driving Nouvo Elegances. It's perceived as a sport bike and faster than a Nouvo Elegance. A lot of young Thai guys simply don't have the cash to buy a CBR or PCX or a Nouvo Elegance so they will buy Honda Waves, Yamaha Mios, Finos, Honda Clicks and other cheaper machines. They will also buy Waves and the like because they are cheaper on fuel. And although a 135 c.c. Yamaha Spark is not nearly as practical as its sibling, the 135 Nouvo automatic, due to much larger under the seat storage and other considerations a lot of them will go for it because it's undoubtedly faster. The young guys who do have the cash will take a CBR over a Nouvo or PCX any day. Now, I could be wrong on this, but we most definitely could go out and do samples of whatever we see and take notes while we are at it. Tell you the truth the first few times I saw Yamaha Nouvos I felt they were not svelte at all and that Honda Wave 110's looked a lot nicer. Their seats looked too large for starters. They just appeared bulbous in comparison to practically everything else out there. Now, I know better. I know a Wave's seat is much narrower so it won't be nearly as comfortable. So now a lot of guys are comparing Nouvos to PCX's and they are saying the PCX is bulbous by comparison. It's all relative. But neither will appeal to your typical young Thai guy. For them, comfort won't be very important. They might prefer the looks of a Mio or Click and not even give their relatively small wheel size a second's thought not realizing they can go faster with a higher margin of safety on a bike that has bigger tires.

Edited December 11, 2010 by jackcorbett

[ignis]

Both the Yamaha Nouvo Elegance and the Honda PCX appeal to basically the same type of buyer

Never understand why it is always one or the other ?

Where does the Suzuki Hayate 125 DCP-FI, 125cc fit in? a bigger bike than the Elegance, has F1 and 20k cheaper than the PCX...

7 months on and I still have not got one, Love the PCX but just can't justify the price for what I would use it for, the Elegance is just to small I look silly sat on it. the G-Max is also PCX money.. No idea what the price of the LF125T-19 will be [it is big] or if the release date is still Feb 2011 ?

[CMX]

"Where does the Suzuki Hayate 125 DCP-FI, 125cc fit in? a bigger bike than the Elegance, has F1 and 20k cheaper than the PCX"...Ignis

True, Suzuki has been introducing fuel injection to its models. And the dimensions of the Hayate Fi are close to those of the Elegance. So far as I'm concerned, it might be better than the Elegance, which of course supports the question of OP.

However, there have been changes in the distribution system and just buying one, cash in hand, has (here in Chiang Mai) been impossible for months. Even now, one must wait for three weeks, but there are no assurances here in Thailand. The claim was that we had to wait for the 2011 models, but the web site shows only 2010.

It might be the case, Fi or not, that the better known NE might command a higher percentage of value when re-sold. Suzuki is not greatly successful here and it is much more rare to see a Hayate than a PCX or Nouvo Elegance.

All three have larger frames so westerners looking for automatics tend to look at them exclusively.

[ignis]

Suzuki Hayate 125 DCP-FI, Yamaha Nouvo Elegance 135. Honda PCX, are all sat next to each other at an independent Local motorbike shop near me..

The PCX is a ? new colour White with back seat and side panels looks a lot bigger, also due to the colour..

The Hayate in red and black, looks side by side a lot bigger then the Elegance odd colour mixed together.

yes on paper, out of the sales Book

Elegance = 678 x 1,950 x 1,057

Hayate = 670 x 1,935 x 1,070

PCX = 738 x 1,917 x 1,094

The Hayate being 13mm higher and a strong 2 tone colour, makes it look bigger the the elegance,

Hayate 125 DCP-FI. alloy wheels 52,000 baht

Elegance 135. alloy wheels 54.500 baht

PCX 125 Fi. alloy wheels, 72,500 baht

The PCX at the Honda main Dealer has Black/Brown + White/Brown + Silver/Brown all are 70,000 baht with all paperwork, Tax and Insurance for 1 yr.

[canuckamuck]

To me the PCX looks like a scooter half way evolved into a snowmobile. I never rode one, but it must feel like a boat. However, they have avoided the horrendous decaling that Yamaha has embarrassed itself with.

Yamaha makes nicely designed bikes and then; I think they have a contest to see who can make the bike as cheap and juvenile looking as possible. I think the same design outfit puts out the cheap kids toys you see in stalls in the mall. Amazingly awful. I see the Fiore intends to continue this sad tradition. The first Fino I ever saw, I thought it was the most elegant scooter I had ever seen, I was so impressed. A couple years later they all looked like trash except the older models. Scoopys are marginally more attractive, some better than others.

My wife has a Hayate, I think it is a great bike it is a shame that Thailand Suzuki is a poor marketer, they make good stuff.

[CMX]

Of course, these measurements also support Jack's question. Pretentious it may be, but the PCX is selling, and not just to foreigners from what I've seen of them here. It looks special and expensive. The Hayate has Fi now, and pretty much the same size of the Nouvo Elegance, and is cheaper.

Incidentally, you're looking at lower prices than we get here in the north, so far.

[jackcorbett]

I blurred the face of my ex girlfriend in order to protect the guilty. But do notice the Fino is solid red in color while the Fino next to it is solid white. Someone at Yamaha needs to burn burn burn for this. Personally I think the lines of the Fino are absolutely sinsational. And it's drive ability has to be far superior to the bike that has obviously inspired it, Italy's Vespa with its 14 inch tires to the Vespas 10 inch or whatever the hell they are now. Admittedly the Vespa is a classic so I can understand why some would want the real deal. But there is no way a Vespa is going to run even close to a Fino or Honda Scoopy with those midget tires it runs on. As far as beauty, sorry Vespa but you have been out vespa'ed by a factor of 10 to 1. Note the almost complete exclusion of decals on this bike and the uncluttered beauty of a single colored paint scheme. I think Honda stole a page from the old Yamaha playbook when it came out with its PCX while Yamaha suddenly realized that the 16 year old son of the chief mover and shaker of Yamaha Thailand, "Turd Brain" had suddenly turned 18 and had to be given a place in the Yamaha Thailand hierarchy.

As to the new Fiora, I think Yamaha might just sell a lot of those. This is because it's selling cute and cute sells. But to those here who know better, I suggest that those 12 inch wheels these little toys will be running on, those who actually will end up driving these little things should be relegated to the sandbox. I think whoever the idiot is who decided to come out with this model missed the entire point. Yamaha scoots have taken a decisive turn to the ugly stick. Yamaha should have turned to improving its perfectly designed Fino and made it even cuter and prettier than it was when my old girlfriend was driving hers.

Back to the Fiora from a different angle, however. So......Yamaha is suddenly announcing a fuel injection system that is going to rival Honda's latest and greatest? Obviously the inevitable has been unleashed. What is going to happen now is this. It will be offered on the Nouvo or the Nouvo's replacement. When? That is difficult to predict. I'd suggest without knowing any better six months to one year. Historically the 135 c.c. Yamaha Spark got all the goodies before Yamaha offered them in its flagship, the Nouvo. As soon as I saw that the Spark had 135 cc's and that it was water cooled and that Honda of course already had water cooling in its Air Blades and Clicks it was clear that Yamaha could not sit still and leave such improvements off its number one scoot. And as for Honda's PGM-FI, it came out first in the Honda Click and one other model. It was a no brainer that Honda would soon be offering it in its flagship model, the Air Blade and that's exactly what happened.

So here's what I think is going to happen. Yamaha is going to replace its present Nouvo Elegance with a new new Nouvo Elegance or something that will be styled quite differently. It might stuff a 150 c.c. engine in it. It will offer substantially increased fuel capacity because as of now the PCX with its 6.2 liter sized tank will out-range the present Nouvo Elegance by a significant margin and from what I've heard will go 170 to 200 miles on a tankful. I have no idea of how the comparative sales have panned out in the last two years in Pattaya between Yamaha's top of the line automatic and Honda's but I'd say that one year ago there might have been 3 Yamaha Elegances sold to two Honda Air Blades. At least it seemed that way to me. And now I'd say that there must be five PCX's sold to every Yamaha Nouvo Elegance. So whatever Yamaha's going to come out with as its comeback machine, it's going to be a splendidly engineered piece of work with significant power advantages over the PCX. But it's also going to be whipped with ugly stick.

Maybe I'll just keep my 135 c.c. Nouvo Elegance for a few more years. I used to love the red illumination lights BMW cars had in its gauges. And now I love the blue illumination of my Yamaha Elegance's. I think its got a great engine (even though it's got a carburetor. Now, if only I can find a great paint shop, I can have the entire bike repainted in a year or two. Maybe I'll have it done in a monotone British racing green that used to look so terrific on MG's and Lotus Grand Prix racing cars. Does anyone know if a replacement fuel tank is out there that would work out for the Nouvo Elegance that will give it significantly increased range? I think there might be room down there. Somewhere? I'd feel a lot better if I could get significantly longer range out of my Elegance if I took it on a trip.

One last word. I must direct a few barbs in Suziki's direction. Copy cat. It looks like a Nouvo. It even has the same two little recesses in front of the driver one can use to put sunglasses in, gloves, etc. But it looks less Elegant and it just doesn't have as much engine. Give me that 135 c.c. Yamaha engine any day.

[CMX]

Say Jack,

You omitted your reflections upon the gauges of the Fiori, as shown in post #8. Aren't they a beautiful example of where Yamaha is headed? Wouldn't you like to see them on this new model? Wouldn't you love to look at the cool or chic one when you check your speed. I'm having trouble deciding which is really me!

I mean, it shows how Yamaha is thinking.

Edited December 12, 2010 by CMX

[jackcorbett]

Say Jack,

You omitted your reflections upon the gauges of the Fiori, as shown in post #8. Aren't they a beautiful example of where Yamaha is headed? Wouldn't you like to see them on this new model? Wouldn't you love to look at the cool or chic one when you check your speed. I'm having trouble deciding which is really me!

I mean, it shows how Yamaha is thinking.

Oh my God, CMX, that gauge looks like a Mickey Mouse watch. Well, it looks like the upcoming Yamaha Nouvo Elegance upgrade/replacement with FI will be a real aesthetic horror. So, that means 1.switching over to something like the PCX to Honda, 2. keeping the Elegance I already have and buying say that new 250 CBR or 3. keeping the Elegance I have now and not buying anything else. If I go with option number 3, I might just want to make it a one of a kind. A larger fuel tanks for touring (Is this possible?) and a monotone paint job. Bright red, British racing green, for example.

[BSJ]

These colours would work well in Oz. I like the cream and brick red (top right).

[LivinLOS]

Both the Yamaha Nouvo Elegance and the Honda PCX appeal to basically the same type of buyer, one who wants excellent high end stuff whether he's a Westerner or Thai. High end buyers usually have good tastes regardless of what country they come from.

A 'high end' buyer goes and gets a 250 or 300 vespa.

[CMX]

As I look at this year's decorations on motorbikes, I see Scoopy and Yamaha's three competitors going kiddy krazy with colors, designs, and brightness. Honda this year with the PCX and the new CBR's is going, if Jack's correct about who buys what, for upscale buyers (the price for a 125 is certainly high for the PCX). Yamaha, on the other hand, has scroll work decorations and some bright colors on its NE - but not so bizarre as the bikes aimed at a younger set. But the NE is cheaper than the PCX and cbr 150, so it may represent a target buyer who has less to spend but doesn't want the mickey mouse watch look, either.

In short, the Elegance owner may not be so upscale, in the eyes of the manufacturer, as the uptown Honda's.

[mic6ard]

To me the PCX looks like a scooter half way evolved into a snowmobile. I never rode one, but it must feel like a boat. However, they have avoided the horrendous decaling that Yamaha has embarrassed itself with.

Yamaha makes nicely designed bikes and then; I think they have a contest to see who can make the bike as cheap and juvenile looking as possible. I think the same design outfit puts out the cheap kids toys you see in stalls in the mall. Amazingly awful. I see the Fiore intends to continue this sad tradition. The first Fino I ever saw, I thought it was the most elegant scooter I had ever seen, I was so impressed. A couple years later they all looked like trash except the older models. Scoopys are marginally more attractive, some better than others.

My wife has a Hayate, I think it is a great bike it is a shame that Thailand Suzuki is a poor marketer, they make good stuff.

Don't knock it bud. It rides nice and smooth, albeit not very exciting almost a SUV feel to it. IT has plenty of power, well if u r not 80+kg. The seats are nice and wide, once you remove the annoying pillow in the middle.

Got it due to the leg room, my big feet don't seem to fit in the floor of the elegance, or the clicks. Plus it did look more unique before the market caught onto it. I mean how many PCX do you see compare to the clicks, waves, dreams, finos, etc.

[CMX]

I mean how many PCX do you see compare to the clicks, waves, dreams, finos, etc.

1. Could it have something to do with 30,000 baht on pays for a heavy 125cc?

2. Thus far since the Honda intro introductions, Yamaha has entered their Fiore, an attempt with Fi to hold on to their flat-floored Mio/Fino market, and they have renovated paint and sticker design to follow Honda's splashy artwork.

Doesn't offer me any clues, but I think another 125cc bike at 76000 would not be a money maker. Wild guess might be the 135 we've speculated about for years, with Fi, with a design akin to the PCX, and asking as much in baht.

Edited December 23, 2010 by CMX

[ignis]

Doesn't offer me any clues, but I think another 125cc bike at 76000 would not be a money maker. Wild guess might be the 135 we've speculated about for years, with Fi, with a design akin to the PCX, and asking as much in baht.

Thing is you have people both Thai and non Thai that would only buy a Yamaha, others only a Honda, regardless of the price difference, as a Thai once said me "I will stick to what I know, OK if it is more expensive then will take an extra year finance",

Same with cars why do so many buy Toyota, Isuzu, another friend will change his pickup later in 2011, I said the all new Ford, he said no way just because its is a Ford, he still has it firmly set that a Ford engine will blow up at 100k !! sure they had a problem but that was years ago + was mostly because the cam belt was not changed.

[jackcorbett]

I mean how many PCX do you see compare to the clicks, waves, dreams, finos, etc.

1. Could it have something to do with 30,000 baht on pays for a heavy 125cc?

2. Thus far since the Honda intro introductions, Yamaha has entered their Fiore, an attempt with Fi to hold on to their flat-floored Mio/Fino market, and they have renovated paint and sticker design to follow Honda's splashy artwork.

Doesn't offer me any clues, but I think another 125cc bike at 76000 would not be a money maker. Wild guess might be the 135 we've speculated about for years, with Fi, with a design akin to the PCX, and asking as much in baht.

CMX------I am seeing A LOT of heavy 125's around now in Pattaya so I see the PCX at 70,000 plus baht as a huge success for Honda. I just got back from the main Mittyan store on 3rd road and sat on one of the nice new apple red PCX's. Each to his own but to me, this color is a knockout. I'd almost be willing to buy one for the color alone. And my neighbor's got a black one with a chocolate brown color seat on it. That's a great color too although I prefer the red. And regardless of whether it loses 10 c'cs to the Elegances 135 and weighs substantially more my seat of the pants impression from driving my friend's PCX for twenty minutes is there did not seem to be a big difference between my Elegance and his PCX.

I went from the PCX to a Yamaha T-Max on the showroom floor. Now that's a bulky large scooter if you ask me. It's state of the art and it's beautiful and it's expensive...around 550000 baht here in Thailand. The PCX seems very small compared to the T-Max. In that perspective the T-Max is overkill for Thailand drivers in my book whereas the PCX is not. That being said (i do like the PCX a lot), the Nouvo Elegance just has to be faster and more maneuverable. I can tie down all kinds of things on mine with bungee cords. It's bound to have more clearance for going over curbs and other obstacles that will probably ground the PCX out before the Elegance. (don't laugh as I do take curbs into some of my favorite bars). It has kick start whereas the PCX does not. so if the battery goes out you are not out of luck on the Elegance. So, the Elegance wins out for practicality and performance. But the PCX has great technology. Apparently it gets fantastic fuel economy. It's got the idling stop feature. And whether some find it bulbous and bulky looking I think it's got great style even though I might still prefer the svelteness of my Elegance.

I'd be reluctant to trade my Nouvo Elegance in for one thing, I believe like you do that Yamaha is going to come out with even more power, not less in its next incarnation of the Elegance while offering substantially better fuel economy due to fuel injection and other technologies. I find the prospect of a fuel injected 135 c.c. Yamaha engine, 150 or whatever will replace Yamaha's present 135 c.c. carburated engine to be pretty exciting. I can only hope Yamaha wraps its Elegance replacement in a beautiful skin.

Edited December 23, 2010 by jackcorbett

[GarryP]

My son likes his Hayate. He thought it a bit heavy to begin with but likes the stability it offers. It is his first bike and all he had ridden previously was his friend's Fino. Would not swap for the world now.

I believe that Yamaha need to go with fuel injection. If the Elegance had been fuel injected we would have bought that over the Hayate.

[CMX]

Well, Yamaha's entered the lists with the Fiori, single eyeball and Fi. And the Hayate F1, which for all I know is available now up here in CM (at 52K for spokes, last I checked).

Not incidentally, the second-hand NE I bought recently is getting 42km/l on 91 gasahol, but it does not drink E20, which is cheaper yet. Still, 42 for mostly city driving with an automatic and a "powerful" engine is surprising to me.

[canuckamuck]

I saw a Fiore the other day, navy blue and fluorescent orange.

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