Cost Of Housing In Phuket

[petercallen]

Deafening silence from Mr. Callen..........

hes shot himself in the foot this time maybe he lost his confidence .or he better ask his wife if he can buy.....

Why would i buy a house if my wife does not like it.

Its going to be hers.

We both have to like the house

[DougLee]

You have been here 5 years, your looking for a house to buy, your Dad, Son and you have been into real estate and your still looking, hhmmm, maybe good you dont have real estate business here.

you can still find a bargin if you know where to look, after 5 years here i am sure you know who to talk to about real estate

I said i have been following the market here for over 4 years.

We have been looking for a house to purchase for 2 months

We have seen houses that are value but they are not exactly what we want.

Since there are hundreds if not thousands of houses available we intend to keep

looking until we find what we want.

Why hurry the majority of houses are not going to be sold

You hurry because in a market where 90% of houses are massive-crap and 9% are crap, the 0.5% of good houses and 0.5% of fantastic houses are going to get taken really fast.

[petercallen]

You have been here 5 years, your looking for a house to buy, your Dad, Son and you have been into real estate and your still looking, hhmmm, maybe good you dont have real estate business here.

you can still find a bargin if you know where to look, after 5 years here i am sure you know who to talk to about real estate

I said i have been following the market here for over 4 years.

We have been looking for a house to purchase for 2 months

We have seen houses that are value but they are not exactly what we want.

Since there are hundreds if not thousands of houses available we intend to keep

looking until we find what we want.

Why hurry the majority of houses are not going to be sold

You hurry because in a market where 90% of houses are massive-crap and 9% are crap, the 0.5% of good houses and 0.5% of fantastic houses are going to get taken really fast.

I ask the necessary questions before we go to look at a house,

Even them when we look if the house is not as described we do not bother going in.

I would say at a guess between 5 and 10% are well constructed.

[DougLee]

You hurry because in a market where 90% of houses are massive-crap and 9% are crap, the 0.5% of good houses and 0.5% of fantastic houses are going to get taken really fast.

I ask the necessary questions before we go to look at a house,

Even them when we look if the house is not as described we do not bother going in.

I would say at a guess between 5 and 10% are well constructed.

yes maybe 5-10% are well constructed but they are rat infested or disgusting looking(hence costing an arm to fix up).. Those "western kitchen" are always pink or cyan.. thats 300-600k baht in extra to fix up

[steelepulse]

Following this thread and other threads about houses from the OP, it seems like he and his wife's expectations are set too high. Either he wants a lowball price which equals "value" or the rest of the houses aren't good enough, which ends up meaning expectations are too high. I'm curious as to why the houses you liked your wife didn't. Perhaps the neighbors were too close, the moo ban was dirty, the water pressure wasn't good enough, the dirt road leading into the house was bad etc.

[barka]

Deafening silence from Mr. Callen..........

hes shot himself in the foot this time maybe he lost his confidence .or he better ask his wife if he can buy.....

In post 13 you said you bought a house 4 years ago and would be lucky to get your money back.

Who has shot himself in the foot , you i think

my foots ok... because i bought the house to live in not for profit.. and i am very happy here its in a good area , nice and clean good neigbours.plenty of room to enjoy..maybe something like your looking for...thats why i bough it..

[SeanPhuket]

Following this thread and other threads about houses from the OP, it seems like he and his wife's expectations are set too high. Either he wants a lowball price which equals "value" or the rest of the houses aren't good enough, which ends up meaning expectations are too high. I'm curious as to why the houses you liked your wife didn't. Perhaps the neighbors were too close, the moo ban was dirty, the water pressure wasn't good enough, the dirt road leading into the house was bad etc.

Fact. Some people come to Phuket and think they can get something for nothing. In regards to value, when compared with other international real estate markets, Phuket already stands very well. In-fact Phuket turns out to be one of the cheapest. A British couple who brought one of my places did so because where they were renting, Hong Kong, to buy was just too much for them. So they came down to Phuket and straight away saw that the place offers them great value and they are still only a few hours away from all major cities and beaches in SE Asia.

I've been working in and around Property for 3/4 years now on Phuket, Ok I'm not an expert but I see these to much expectation 'buyers' every week. On the other hand, I see serious buyers too, these people have a good understanding of the market, they see value, they see lifestyle and they buy. They have been doing this long before I was here so something must be right??

If the OP has been following the market for a few years now, he will surely know that now is a good entry time as the market is moving ten fold if compared with a couple years ago and owners know this. He will also know that a high amount of these buyers are 'new money' Russians, Indians and Chinese who do and will pay the prices that sellers ask.

My advice to the OP is to build, I think thats the only way he will get what he's looking for. Do remember though, you will have to pay a premium for the land in Phuket and the stress of the build is quite unbelievable in Thailand. Oh oh, if you want 'value' land you can by in bulk ie. if your looking to pay just a mill or two per rai you may have to buy 100 rai Ok. But then at least its value. Otherwise head up-country where there is not a decent shop or good restaurant for hours.

[BangTaoBoy]

Some people come to Phuket and think they can get something for nothing.

It's that attitude that blows my mind. Why can't people realise that there is a reason they have found themselves here looking for a house to buy. It's not because it's a rubbish place that no one wants to live is it! If people went to Beirut or Baghdad for a bargain and found that it was expensive then they would have good reason to be confused.

If Phuket was a crap place to live, no one would be here and the property would be dirt cheap. As it is, a lot of people think it's agreat place to live and are over the moon to be able to own a property here for a quarter of the price it would cost in their own country (even with the crappy windows and doors). Until that changes, or as somebody mentioned, the sellers sudenly become desperate to sell due to other financial issues happeneing in the world right now, which they haven't seemed likely to do for the last several years, then I reckon the property market will stay as it is for a while to come.

[katabeachbum]

Some people come to Phuket and think they can get something for nothing.

It's that attitude that blows my mind. Why can't people realise that there is a reason they have found themselves here looking for a house to buy. It's not because it's a rubbish place that no one wants to live is it! If people went to Beirut or Baghdad for a bargain and found that it was expensive then they would have good reason to be confused.

If Phuket was a crap place to live, no one would be here and the property would be dirt cheap. As it is, a lot of people think it's agreat place to live and are over the moon to be able to own a property here for a quarter of the price it would cost in their own country (even with the crappy windows and doors). Until that changes, or as somebody mentioned, the sellers sudenly become desperate to sell due to other financial issues happeneing in the world right now, which they haven't seemed likely to do for the last several years, then I reckon the property market will stay as it is for a while to come.

why would anyone want crappy windows and doors, when good quality is available? few hundred k baht for powdercoated frames with heatreflecting glass for a 200sqm home

[katabeachbum]

Following this thread and other threads about houses from the OP, it seems like he and his wife's expectations are set too high. Either he wants a lowball price which equals "value" or the rest of the houses aren't good enough, which ends up meaning expectations are too high. I'm curious as to why the houses you liked your wife didn't. Perhaps the neighbors were too close, the moo ban was dirty, the water pressure wasn't good enough, the dirt road leading into the house was bad etc.

Fact. Some people come to Phuket and think they can get something for nothing. In regards to value, when compared with other international real estate markets, Phuket already stands very well. In-fact Phuket turns out to be one of the cheapest. A British couple who brought one of my places did so because where they were renting, Hong Kong, to buy was just too much for them. So they came down to Phuket and straight away saw that the place offers them great value and they are still only a few hours away from all major cities and beaches in SE Asia.

I've been working in and around Property for 3/4 years now on Phuket, Ok I'm not an expert but I see these to much expectation 'buyers' every week. On the other hand, I see serious buyers too, these people have a good understanding of the market, they see value, they see lifestyle and they buy. They have been doing this long before I was here so something must be right??

If the OP has been following the market for a few years now, he will surely know that now is a good entry time as the market is moving ten fold if compared with a couple years ago and owners know this. He will also know that a high amount of these buyers are 'new money' Russians, Indians and Chinese who do and will pay the prices that sellers ask.

My advice to the OP is to build, I think thats the only way he will get what he's looking for. Do remember though, you will have to pay a premium for the land in Phuket and the stress of the build is quite unbelievable in Thailand. Oh oh, if you want 'value' land you can by in bulk ie. if your looking to pay just a mill or two per rai you may have to buy 100 rai Ok. But then at least its value. Otherwise head up-country where there is not a decent shop or good restaurant for hours.

having build a few houses here, my advice is to NOT build unless you know very well what it takes

and land at 1-2 mill baht/rai is only available in lonelyland

last sales record in BKK is 560 mill baht/rai. approx 5 years ago record was 360 million baht/rai

1-2 million baht gets you a small plot in popular areas, like 30-50 talangwah (120-200sqm)

in a well organized moo baan its hard to find land below 30.000 baht/talangwah (1 talangwah is 4 sqm)

[LivinLOS]

and land at 1-2 mill baht/rai is only available in lonelyland

last sales record in BKK is 560 mill baht/rai. approx 5 years ago record was 360 million baht/rai

1-2 million baht gets you a small plot in popular areas, like 30-50 talangwah (120-200sqm)

in a well organized moo baan its hard to find land below 30.000 baht/talangwah (1 talangwah is 4 sqm)

I know.. But those values themselves make me cringe.. Eg I just missed an investment deal, by weeks if not days it seems..

This was 130 acres of land (ballpark 300 rai ??) 3.5 miles from one of the UK's prime beach / surf towns, 200m from the edge of the beach with direct beach access (footpath). Because of its classification it involves no capital gains tax, no inheritance tax, and no income tax for its current use. The guide price for offer was 230k GBP.. Less than 11 mil baht.. For 130 acres of coastal SW england !! Both sides of an entire valley !! Must admit to being a bit annoyed I missed that.

Then someone tries to tell me some land, possibly over 80m, that I cant actually own, and is very hazy on if a building permit will need bribery, is cheap at 14m a rai. With no building codes or controls. and a Tin shack shanty town on the entrance road.

I know which one represents the better investment to me.

[petercallen]

You cannot compare land in phuket to land in New York, London, Sidney or any other Capitol city.

When you buy land in them its usually to redevelop and you demolish the building and rebuild.

LIL comparison is a lot more accurate.

Land here is ex rubber tree plantations, rice Paddy's, one lot being developed is a swamp which

they are filling in but they are not putting drainage in.

How long would it take in years or generations to get a return of 6M on one rai of rubber trees.

There is a huge amount of undeveloped land on Phuket, vacant land becomes expensive when

there is a shortage of it in most places but it does not seem to work that way here.

[HDRIDER]

I think you forget that a lot of farm land you will never be able to build on, check nor so

I know a guy who leased a house for 10 years on Hasip Pee rd in Patong, the over 80 meter road

after 3 years the owner asked if he wanted to buy, they agreed to a good price, then my friend went to land and transport only to find out it was just over 80 meter AND it was farm land never to be build on.

[Benjie]

What type of buyer are you?

1) Looking for value?, or

2) Bargain hunter?, or

3) Willing to pay whatever if you like something?

The first, lots of value real estate about but who sets the value? Seller, buyer, or the neighbourhood?

The second, lots of bargains about too; but on Phuket a bargain is normally associated with a halted construction project. Even then a seller can still sit on it as Phuket is predominately a CASH market as is his project.

The third, well, one word only - Russians. Why would a seller sell their real estate below their value when they know sooner or later somebody will come along and buy it on this resort island. Remember this owner is likely to be a cash owner too.

One has to think if one himself has an unrealistic value of the local real estate market.

Well Sean , i would not pay 3.2M for a house that 3 years ago cost around 1.5M

It doesn't matter what it cost 3 years ago though.

I could probably build a house here for less than half what someone new to Thailand/Phuket would be able to, after they are on their 2nd/3rd builder, lost countless deposit, have paid 50% markup on subcontractors/products etc...

[barka]

well funny enough they are doing this here in RAWAI..EG Dons mall this.. 2 rai of land was sold for 30 million + they are now demolshing and rebuilding a new shophouse complex so know PHUKET IS BECOMING LIKE THE WEST? whats the differance... times are changing..and prime land here is fetching more than land and house...they dont make any more ...land...

[KarenBravo]

...they dont make any more ...land...

They do in Singapore......

[BangTaoBoy]

why would anyone want crappy windows and doors, when good quality is available? few hundred k baht for powdercoated frames with heatreflecting glass for a 200sqm home

You wouldn't obviously. That was just my point for the sake of all the people, who think they should be able to buy a house here for peanuts. The first thing they allways harp on about is the quality of windows and such. My point was, even with slightly lower spec materials, the houses are still good value due to location.

[BangTaoBoy]

...they dont make any more ...land...

They do in Singapore......

And the Middle East.

[BangTaoBoy]

and land at 1-2 mill baht/rai is only available in lonelyland

last sales record in BKK is 560 mill baht/rai. approx 5 years ago record was 360 million baht/rai

1-2 million baht gets you a small plot in popular areas, like 30-50 talangwah (120-200sqm)

in a well organized moo baan its hard to find land below 30.000 baht/talangwah (1 talangwah is 4 sqm)

I know.. But those values themselves make me cringe.. Eg I just missed an investment deal, by weeks if not days it seems..

This was 130 acres of land (ballpark 300 rai ??) 3.5 miles from one of the UK's prime beach / surf towns, 200m from the edge of the beach with direct beach access (footpath). Because of its classification it involves no capital gains tax, no inheritance tax, and no income tax for its current use. The guide price for offer was 230k GBP.. Less than 11 mil baht.. For 130 acres of coastal SW england !! Both sides of an entire valley !! Must admit to being a bit annoyed I missed that.

Then someone tries to tell me some land, possibly over 80m, that I cant actually own, and is very hazy on if a building permit will need bribery, is cheap at 14m a rai. With no building codes or controls. and a Tin shack shanty town on the entrance road.

I know which one represents the better investment to me.

Surely you're not trying to suggest there was planning permission for that land, that was 230k for 130 acres in a fantastic location?? Might get permission for a row of caravans, but even then that's not easy to come by.

[Lannatyne]

Peter,

We've a long-standing unfullfilled meeting due to see what I'm developing. I still hope we can get around to doing this when I return from my northern Thailand holiday trip.

However, to nail a few of your points on the flagpost once and for all, I really think it's about time you came up with a mathematical pricing formula that is acceptable to a buyer, like yourself, but also offers a developer, like me, a reasonable profit margin.

So, assuming that land cost plus total build cost plus developer's profit = total cost.

Please can you state, in your experienced opinion, what percentage the developer's profit should be?

(I'd like to bet that I'm going to be pretty much on the button when you state your %age.)

Thanks - look forward to your reply in this thread.

[stevenl]

...they dont make any more ...land...

They do in Singapore......

And the Middle East.

And the Netherlands.

[petercallen]

well funny enough they are doing this here in RAWAI..EG Dons mall this.. 2 rai of land was sold for 30 million + they are now demolshing and rebuilding a new shophouse complex so know PHUKET IS BECOMING LIKE THE WEST? whats the differance... times are changing..and prime land here is fetching more than land and house...they dont make any more ...land...

Dons mall was a large block of land with very little development on it facing the main road.

That's why its a prime sight for redevelopment, name another site.

[petercallen]

Peter,

We've a long-standing unfullfilled meeting due to see what I'm developing. I still hope we can get around to doing this when I return from my northern Thailand holiday trip.

However, to nail a few of your points on the flagpost once and for all, I really think it's about time you came up with a mathematical pricing formula that is acceptable to a buyer, like yourself, but also offers a developer, like me, a reasonable profit margin.

So, assuming that land cost plus total build cost plus developer's profit = total cost.

Please can you state, in your experienced opinion, what percentage the developer's profit should be?

(I'd like to bet that I'm going to be pretty much on the button when you state your %age.)

Thanks - look forward to your reply in this thread.

between 20 to 40% depending on the development costs and the time taken

[katabeachbum]

Peter,

We've a long-standing unfullfilled meeting due to see what I'm developing. I still hope we can get around to doing this when I return from my northern Thailand holiday trip.

However, to nail a few of your points on the flagpost once and for all, I really think it's about time you came up with a mathematical pricing formula that is acceptable to a buyer, like yourself, but also offers a developer, like me, a reasonable profit margin.

So, assuming that land cost plus total build cost plus developer's profit = total cost.

Please can you state, in your experienced opinion, what percentage the developer's profit should be?

(I'd like to bet that I'm going to be pretty much on the button when you state your %age.)

Thanks - look forward to your reply in this thread.

between 20 to 40% depending on the development costs and the time taken

cash up front, IOW on buyers risk?

[petercallen]

between 20 to 40% depending on the development costs and the time taken

cash up front, IOW on buyers risk?

No with a warranty from a qualified builder, which there are not many of here.

[DougLee]

why would anyone want crappy windows and doors, when good quality is available? few hundred k baht for powdercoated frames with heatreflecting glass for a 200sqm home

You wouldn't obviously. That was just my point for the sake of all the people, who think they should be able to buy a house here for peanuts. The first thing they allways harp on about is the quality of windows and such. My point was, even with slightly lower spec materials, the houses are still good value due to location.

<deleted> is location nowadays, you could live anywhere in the world and fly to a wonderful beach for 3k-6k baht anywhere from 1hr to 5hrs plane ride.

1hr is almost what it takes for most people to get to a good beach in phuket when there's a little traffic in high season.

Hell, in canada you can get for 20 000baht a 5hr flight, 5 week in a 4-5 star resort in panama/cuba/dominican republic food and alcohol included(unlimited) and you can rent an ATV for cheaper than phuket, ride 5mins and get to a COMPLETELY DESERT BEACH, AND NOT JUST 10METERS, IM TALKING 5-10KM OF EMPTY PURE UNSPLOIT SAND BEACH where you can hunt crabs.

In france it's even cheaper, Nice is a wonderfull beach town, a lot better than most thai beaches if not all? i gotta say im quite fond of koh samet.

Anywhere in asia u can fly to phuket/bali/australia/philipines

USA have florida/cali/south america

Even if you happen to live right next to a nice beach in phuket, unlike most. You probably don't go everyday unless you are retired, not much of a difference than flying every friday for a 3 day holiday down south in other countries if you aint poor.

If i had any sort of credit to buy a house in my country or in france i would move there as soon as possible, get much more than here for a lot cheaper. But for now i gotta wait untill a family member dies and i inherit their house, morn and then i'll have it all.

Hell if i wasn't scared of getting killed by Haitian, i would move with my gf, tomorrow to Dominican Republic.. much cheaper, i can own and much much much better food for much cheaper.. farang restaurants of high quality on the beach are priced the same as small thai restaurants.

Bangtao, i really wonder, have you ever traveled anywhere else than this sex tourist spot of the world? Thailand can be fun to live in but there is a million better places, especially nowadays that the country is getting more corrupt, more evil and racist toward foreigners. Me and my gf both like thailand but as soon as her mom dies, we're definitely out of her forever, much better places in this world to spend your time, these places actually want you on top of that.

[Benjie]

Peter,

We've a long-standing unfullfilled meeting due to see what I'm developing. I still hope we can get around to doing this when I return from my northern Thailand holiday trip.

However, to nail a few of your points on the flagpost once and for all, I really think it's about time you came up with a mathematical pricing formula that is acceptable to a buyer, like yourself, but also offers a developer, like me, a reasonable profit margin.

So, assuming that land cost plus total build cost plus developer's profit = total cost.

Please can you state, in your experienced opinion, what percentage the developer's profit should be?

(I'd like to bet that I'm going to be pretty much on the button when you state your %age.)

Thanks - look forward to your reply in this thread.

between 20 to 40% depending on the development costs and the time taken

I'm assuming you are joking, I'd guess that the sales and administration costs alone would likely be close to that on their own.

Who would ever bother to be a developer? it would only take 1 incident to completely knock out all your potential profits.

That sort of figure doesn't even cover the risk factors, let alone any profit potential to motivate someone enough to take up the pretty tough and risky endeavour of building here.

[BangTaoBoy]

<deleted> is location nowadays, you could live anywhere in the world and fly to a wonderful beach for 3k-6k baht anywhere from 1hr to 5hrs plane ride.

That's a great point. Instead of going to the beach 3 or 4 times a week (could go every day if I chose) which is a 4 minute drive away, with the wife and kids, my kayak, inflatable boat, snorkeling gear, beach chairs and table, picnic blankets, huge cool box full of food and drink, all the kids inflatable toys, I'll just hop on a plane for 3/4 hours with it all, every Friday and hand over £80 for the pleasure. Now that's a plan.

You're not a fan of Phuket, so obviously there isn't much point you discussing the value of property here is there. Someone could offer me a house in the vast majority of the UK (West London, maybe Cornwall excepted) for 50% of it's value and I wouldn't touch it with a barge pole if it meant I had to live in it.

My comments about value, are obviously based on people who want to live here. Did you not read the 50 different comments from people saying that the true value of a house is how high people are prepared to pay for it and how low people are prepared to sell it for. I would obviously be prepared to pay more than you wouldn't I? So my value of property here is higher than yours.

It will never stop amusing me, how many people get so upset when I say I enjoy living in Phuket. It's such an irrational reaction, it cracks me up.

P.S I reckon your mother in law is gonna hang on for another 10 years yet at least, so make yourself comfortable mate.

[DougLee]

I dont care, we are already out of the country half the year... always the best half. Of course once those lazy developers are finished with my house, i might enjoy phuket a little more.. rentals are such ****holes. A pool on the roof with mountain view might even make me want to stay..

Edited December 28, 2010 by DougLee

[BangTaoBoy]

Me and my gf both like thailand but as soon as her mom dies, we're definitely out of here forever, much better places in this world to spend your time,

Of course once those lazy developers are finished with my house, i might enjoy phuket a little more.. rentals are such ****holes. A pool on the roof with mountain view might even make me want to stay..

You're having a house developed here which might make you want to stay, but....you're definately out of here forever, first chance you get, because it's an over rated, sex tourist spot, which is getting more evil and racist toward foreigners??

I think you may be a little confused right now! Probably the impending grief, that you seem really concerned about.......not. And people on here call Thais heartless money grabbers. I would find it most amusing if whoever it was, had changed their will without telling you.