Charles Schwab Debit Card/Checking/Brokerage Acct

[jfchandler]

Here's one prior example I posted on, and you and I discussed at the time.... not with the Cap One card, but rather, re this one particular post, a VISA logo debit card with Cirrus on the back.

(In the full post, I was having a problem with POS at the time. But as it turned out, that was because the new bank involved was blanket blocking international POSs on the card, without telling me or disclosing that. But that issue is unrelated to the ATM exchange rates issue below).

Posted 2011-02-04 19:36:18

...here's the further info re my new U.S. bank VISA debit card that only has the Cirrus logo on the back...

Also today, however, used the same card to successfully make ATM withdrawals from both an AEON ATM and a CitiBank ATM, both of which don't charge the 150 baht ATM withdrawal fee.

It looks like this small bank that's behind my new card is at least charging the 1% card network fee, though both of my ATM withdrawals showed up in the bank's online banking only as a single amount (no breakout).

Both the AEON and CitiBank ATM withdrawals were 1000 baht in the afternoon.

Rate for the AEON withdrawal about 4 pm: 30.52 baht

Rate for the CitiBank withdrawal about 4:30 pm: 30.33 baht

Bank of Thailand IER for the day: 30.83

Bangkok Bank Buying TT in the afternoon: 30.65

I'm looking to see if I posted on the Cap One ATM only card withdrawals from Citi vs. AEON.

[jfchandler]

Hmm... found another prior post where I did an AEON and Citi comparison where the resulting same day exchange rates were the same. But that was involving a VISA logo debit card...

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__3923807

Posted 2010-10-02 19:57:55

Citibank appears to have made their Thailand headquarters in the Interchange 21 Tower, and their presence there includes a bank branch and a row of ATM and cash deposit machines.

I tested the ATM machines there for myself today, and did a comparison with the same routine U.S. bank VISA debit card a bit later at an AEON ATM. Then went home and checked online banking to confirm. No 150 baht withdrawal fee and the same exchange rate as the AEON ATM. And the rate was just about what I would have expected, 30.12 compared to a Friday Interbank Exchange Rate of 30.246.

So now I'm wondering, the other head to head comparison I reposted above was a VISA logo debit card with only the CIRRUS logo on the back (not PLUS).

Is it possible, perhaps that when that type card is used, the AEON ATM, not accepting CIRRUS cards, processes it thru the VISA network and resulting exchange rate, while perhaps the Citi ATM for whatever reason processes it thru the Cirrus network, since that's the logo on the back side??? Same card but different exchange rate results...

Still looking about the former Cap One Plus card....

So, to settle this, I guess I or someone else needs to use a VISA debit card with only the PLUS network on the reverse, and try that in real time with both AEON and Citi... Looks like both the Schwab and E*Trade VISA debit cards would fit that bill.

Edited May 24, 2011 by jfchandler

[JimGant]

Is it possible, perhaps that when that type card is used, the AEON ATM, not accepting CIRRUS cards, processes it thru the VISA network and resulting exchange rate, while perhaps the Citi ATM for whatever reason processes it thru the Cirrus network, since that's the logo on the back side??? Same card but different exchange rate results...

Yes.

Best I can determine, when a credit card or a debit card in the swipe and sign mode is used, the transaction is handled by either the MC or Visa network, depending on which logo is on the front. This is a contractual agreement of sorts -- and guarantees you'll get the proprietary niceties you signed up for. This quote from a Visa site:

According to Visa, using a debit card as "credit" helps to ensure you'll receive the credit card network's protections like "Zero Liability.

Conversely, however, this tells me that a debit card used in the pin mode -- or in an ATM machine -- has no such guarantees. And, in fact, when you use your Visa (or MC) debit card in the pin mode in the US, you'll find yourself on an EFT network, like STAR, PULSE, or even Visa's EFT network, Interlink.

But in the swipe and sign mode, you'll be riding Visa/Plus or MC/Cirrus.

Cirrus has been Citi's network of choice for years. So, given every opportunity, they'll defer to Cirrus over Plus. So, even if your card has a Visa logo on the front, they're under no obligation to use the Plus network in their ATM operations (only their swipe and sign operations) -- since this is strictly a pin operation. So, yes, they'll stick you with Cirrus whenever they can.

Hmm... found another prior post where I did an AEON and Citi comparison where the resulting same day exchange rates were the same. But that was involving a VISA logo debit card...

Must have been a Visa/Plus card -- otherwise it would have deferred to Cirrus at the Citi machine -- while using Plus at Aeon -- and resulting in two divergent exchange rates.

Which says Citi does accept Visa/Plus cards -- but has to defer to Plus, since there's no mention of MC or Cirrus on the card. Which further begs the question: Will a MC/Cirrus card defer to the Cirrus network at an Aeon machine? I would think so. (And probably with the million bits of data we've got on this, we could confirm. Except, I haven't the energy to wade back thru all of it... )

Edited May 24, 2011 by JimGant

[jfchandler]

This is a contractual agreement of sorts -- and guarantees you'll get the proprietary niceties you signed up for. This quote from a Visa site:

According to Visa, using a debit card as "credit" helps to ensure you'll receive the credit card network's protections like "Zero Liability.

Jim, this subject above is a bit of a side issue relating to Thailand bank VISA debit cards vs. U.S. bank VISA debit cards.

In the past, I wondered whether my Thai bank issued VISA debit cards carried that protection. But when I went looking on the VISA International and VISA Asia web sites, I could find absolutely no mention of that policy protection, which is coming from VISA, since it goes beyond a bit what's required in U.S. federal law.

So that led to me calling VISA Asia and ending up speaking with a CSR rep in the Phils, and getting the answer that the VISA no liability protection only applies to U.S. issued cards. When I asked what if any protections would apply for VISA cards issued outside the U.S., the rep replied, whatever the local policy is of the issuing bank.

[lopburi3]

State Farm Debit Visa Withdrawal

Citibank ATM at Asoke

23 May at 15:42

14,900BT pulled

$493.20USD

30.21806 Exchange Rate

Schwab Debit Visa Withdrawal

AEON ATM in western Bangkok (no 150 baht fee)

23 May at 11:24

5,000 Baht Pulled

$165.50USD

30.21148 Exchange Rate

Considering there was a few hours between the jgm005's and my withdrawal, plus his previous post where he did a ATM withdrawal within minutes using his Schwab and SF Debit Visa cards and got identical exchange rates, I think this shows both Schwab and SF strictly use the Visa exchange rate of the minute....an exchange rate that is basically equal to the average Thai bank TT Buying rate, give or take a few hundredths of a baht. I'll do a Schwab and SF debit card ATM withdrawal once I get my SF debit card PIN which should be this week (got the debit card a few days ago, but the initial PIN arrives in a separate mailing), but I expect the exchange rate given will be identical like jgm005's previous test.

Believe below will show that MC is indeed a little less than Visa exchange rate - and appears they only set rate one time per day.

Same 23 May date at 11:47 POS Big C purchase

USAA Debit Master Card

1,244.50 baht

$41.71 (Including 1% fee)

30.1351 Exchange Rate minus fee

[Pib]

Agree that Mastercard provides a lower exchange rate compared to Visa. When comparing the Visa and Mastercard exchange rates at their exchange rate webpages, Mastercard is "usually" lower by around 0.05 to 0.15 baht/USD. Now what a person calculates by looking at the charge to hit his bank account, even when excluding any foreign transaction fee, will vary just a little from the Visa/Mastercard rates due to the particular networks the transaction processed through, how banks rounded charges, the posting date, etc. Easy for the posting date of a transaction to a bank account to be a different day/at least a day later than the actual transaction date depending on the time of day in Thailand and what world time zone Visa/Mastercard is using to flip to a new day (and new exchange rate), how fast the bank posts transactions, etc.

I just checked both the Visa and Mastercard currency exchange web site and for 24 May (today U.S. date/time) and yesterday/23 May and the following rates applies:

Today/24 May 11 (it's still 24 May/10:30pm Eastern Time in the U.S. although it's already 25 May in Thailand)

Visa: 30.349916/USD

Mastercard: 30.399/USD

Yesterday/23 May 11

Visa: 30.259863/USD

Mastercard: 30.1351/USD

The 23 May exchange difference between Visa and Mastercard is what I usually see...notice a 0.12 baht/USD better exchange rate with Visa for yesterday. Usually the Visa rate approximates the average Thai bank TT Buying rate and the Mastercard rate approximates the Thai bank Sight Bill Buying rate (the sight bill rate is usually 0.1 baht/USD below the TT rate).

[jgm005]

Today

AEON ATM Paragon

14:34

15,000bt using Schwab Visa Debit card

$494.38 usd

30.34103

Citibank

14:54

15,000bt using Schwab Visa Debit card

$494.38

30.34103

PS: Created a separate thread by mistake prior to this post

[JimGant]

Today

AEON ATM Paragon

14:34

15,000bt using Schwab Visa Debit card

$494.38 usd

30.34103

Citibank

14:54

15,000bt using Schwab Visa Debit card

$494.38

30.34103

This says two things:

1. A Visa/Plus card, untainted by any MasterCard/Cirrus logos, will get you the Visa/Plus exchange rate at Citi ATM machines.

2. The rate given at the Visa exchange rate site (HERE )is spot on, as they give .032959 as the rate for 25 May. (Pib, you need to use "transaction in baht," then find the reciprocal, in this case 30.341. Using "card in baht" will give you a buy/sell spread error.)

The Visa reported rate (30.211) was also right one for the 23 May transactions reported earlier in this thread.

Interestingly, you might have gotten a better exchange rate at Citi if you used a Cirrus card, as the MC site reports 30.449 for 25 May. Apparently, they put on their green eyeshades later in the day vice Visa -- and when the dollar is rapidly appreciating, you're rewarded.

[Pib]

2. The rate given at the Visa exchange rate site (HERE )is spot on, as they give .032959 as the rate for 25 May. (Pib, you need to use "transaction in baht," then find the reciprocal, in this case 30.341. Using "card in baht" will give you a buy/sell spread error.)

Thanks. Never knew that. But it does indeed give you slightly different results...about a 0.05 baht/USD higher value. Yeap, I was flipping the entry (i.e., Selecting My Card is in "Thai Baht" for my US card to give me a whole number result like 30.XXX Baht/USD) By flipping the entry, I figured it just inversed the result without any other adjustment like a buy/spread error. Now I'll need to get my calculator out to get the value which my brain is use to seeing (e.g., 30.XX Baht/USD versus a decimal value like 0.033XXX).

[Pib]

Today

AEON ATM Paragon

14:34

15,000bt using Schwab Visa Debit card

$494.38 usd

30.34103

Citibank

14:54

15,000bt using Schwab Visa Debit card

$494.38

30.34103

PS: Created a separate thread by mistake prior to this post

OK, finally got my PIN for my new State Farm Visa Debit Card (a 0% foriegn transaction fee card like my Schwab Visa Debit card). Went to an AEON ATM this morning to check and make sure the SF card works, and to check the exchange rate given and compare to the Schwab card. Like jgm005, the SF and Schwab Visa debit cards gave the identical exchange rate, matched the Visa exchange rate at their Exchange Rate web link, and bettered the Average Thai Bank TT Buying Rate.

AEON ATM

9:19am

1000 baht withdrawn using Schwab Visa Debit Card

$33.01 charge hit my Schwab account

30.29385 exchange rate

AEON ATM

9:20am

1000 baht withdrawn using State Farm Visa Debit Card

$33.01 charge hit my SF account

30.29385 exhange rate

Note: no 150 baht foreign card fee was charged on either transaction.

When checking the Visa Exchange Rate page the rate given was 30.291097 Baht/USD and the web page that shows the Average Thai Bank TT Buying Exchange Rate reflected 30.213 Baht/USD at 11:45am. So, the State Farm and Schwab cards gave the exact same exchange rate, their rate matched the Visa exchange rate (slight difference starting at 3rd decimal point is just a bank transaction amount rounding issue), and today the Visa exchange rate was about 0.08 Baht/USD (or 0.26%) better than the average TT Buying Rate given by Thai banks for SWIFT/ACH/Wire transfers.

P.S. Then took about 20 steps around the corner to deposit the 2000 baht in a Bangkok Bank cash deposit machine...sure beats paying associated ACH/SWIFT/Wire fees plus I got the money transferred & deposited in a few minutes versus a few business days. I can withdraw up to $1000 per day with each card ($2000 total) wilth ATM fee reimbursement if needed. It's good to have 0% foreign transaction fee cards. I feel somewhat lucky/blessed to have gotten the accounts/cards...it sure makes banking in Thailand more like I'm still banking in the U.S. Cheers.

[jfchandler]

Thanks Pib and JGM for the great info and clear comparisons about the Schwab and State Farm cards.... And also for clarifying the situation with CitiBank's ATM's in BKK....

So I'll now amend my prior advice on the subject...

Using a VISA logo debit card with the PLUS logo on the reverse, the CitiBank ATMs at Asoke should produce the same network exchange rate as those obtained from AEON ATMs...being the prevailing VISA network rate.

However, using a VISA debit card with the CIRRUS logo on the reverse, the Citibank ATMs are going to pay a lower exchange rate than AEON's ATMs.

The latter situation is apparently because AEON, not being part of the CIRRUS system, would handle that card through the VISA network, while CitiBank would handle it thru the Mastercard/CIRRUS network.

[jgm005]

Your below comment says it all for me. I am back to the States in a few days and have been plowing money into my Kasikorn account for the wife does not go back until end of July. Maybe a hassle to some to do it this way but as you said 'sure beats paying associated ACH/SWIFT/WIRE Fees'

Snipped ....

P.S. Then took about 20 steps around the corner to deposit the 2000 baht in a Bangkok Bank cash deposit machine...sure beats paying associated ACH/SWIFT/Wire fees plus I got the money transferred & deposited in a few minutes versus a few business days. I can withdraw up to $1000 per day with each card ($2000 total) wilth ATM fee reimbursement if needed. It's good to have 0% foreign transaction fee cards. I feel somewhat lucky/blessed to have gotten the accounts/cards...it sure makes banking in Thailand more like I'm still banking in the U.S. Cheers.

[najatom]

Just an aside, in a recent article in my local paper, they mentioned the Schwab accounts as having no fees but the other one they mentioned that has no foreign ATM fees is State Farm Bank. And they say State Farm's checking acct. earns 0.74% interest with a balance of $2500. I'll be checking them both out to see which one is best for us.

[Pib]

Just an aside, in a recent article in my local paper, they mentioned the Schwab accounts as having no fees but the other one they mentioned that has no foreign ATM fees is State Farm Bank. And they say State Farm's checking acct. earns 0.74% interest with a balance of $2500. I'll be checking them both out to see which one is best for us.

Based on the bank accounts I have with Schwab and State Farm the interest rates are:

Schwab Checking: 0.25%

Schwab Savings: 0.40%

State Farm Interest Checking: 0.74%

Note: State Farm has a Money Market and Regular Savings accounts also but I don't know what the interest rates are. When I opened accounts with Schwab and SF I was primarily after the type of account that provided the no foreign fee debit card with reimbursement, which means I opened checking accounts since money market/savings accounts don't usually come with ATM/debit cards. I did open a Schwab Savings account since the application form was easy and I just included it with the brokerage and checking application when I mailed it in. I had to mail it in since I was applying for a joint account; no online application was offered when I was signing up...I could have opened up an Individual account online but not a Joint account. I did the SF application via phone.

You can get a higher interest rate of 1.01% with a Capital One Interest Online Checking which provides a no foreign transaction fee debit card with reimbursements, but several posters spending a lot of time in Thailand with Cap One debit cards have said about every 90 days or so you have to call Cap One to tell them you are traveling in Thailand/this part of the world in order to make the debit card work in Thailand (i.e., get it unblocked for overseas usage). I've had my Schwab debit card for several months now and have never had to call them to make my card work in Thailand...not even for initial usage. Only had the SF debit card a few days so I don't know how that will work out in the long term but I do know I did not call them to tell them I'm in Thailand right now to make the card work over the last few days since I've had the card (I'm not counting the card activation call which was all automated...never talked to a real person). So, hopefully, Schwab and SF are not as picky about notifying them in advance of overseas usage of their debit card...that can be good or bad depending on your travel/living habits around the world and how location-restrictive security precautions you want on your card(s). For me, I consider not being so location-restrictive a good thing.

[jfchandler]

Pibbie, re the Cap One cards and notifying them of travel abroad....

I've run into that issue with their credit cards, whereas at some point you may go to do a transaction at a merchant, and unexpectedly find your card rejected without any clear explanation from the merchant or the merchant's credit card machine... Then you call Cap One, and find out they've frozen it because the transaction is in a foreign country, and you haven't notified them you're traveling abroad. Once you give them your ID info on the phone and confirm your account, they'll unlock the card and everything is fine again. But that doesn't help you with the surprise rejection when you're standing in line at Tesco or Big C.

I believe the Cap One CSRs will say that the longest their system will keep a travel abroad notification is 90 days.... But in practice, especially once you've had several past conversations with them and had a travel abroad notification for the same particular country noted on your account, especially with their security unit, the surprise blockings seem to occur less frequently... But as I said, all of that relates to their credit cards...

Re Cap One's ATM debit cards (NO VISA or MC logo), I've never yet had a block on their debit card in terms of using it at ATMs abroad, and I've never done a travel notification re my Cap One bank account that's associated with the ATM card.

[jgm005]

Snipped

Re Cap One's ATM debit cards (NO VISA or MC logo), I've never yet had a block on their debit card in terms of using it at ATMs abroad, and I've never done a travel notification re my Cap One bank account that's associated with the ATM card.

In a call I had with a Cap One CSR I was told with the new ATM cards one does not have to call ahead to alert them it will be used overseas. ON the old ATM cards I had it blocked more then one time when I did not remember to call ahead.

[Richbrown]

can anyone tell me if i can set up account from uk?

cant seem to fill out application online. Although it has a country selection it doesnt change the 'states' section so i can only select usa states. ?

do i just have to use the printed application and send it to the usa?

http://www.schwab.co...open_an_account

you can see in step 3 it asks you to make a minimum of 10K deposit when i look on the uk site.

Edited June 2, 2011 by Richbrown

[Pib]

can anyone tell me if i can set up account from uk?

cant seem to fill out application online. Although it has a country selection it doesnt change the 'states' section so i can only select usa states. ?

do i just have to use the printed application and send it to the usa?

http://www.schwab.co...open_an_account

you can see in step 3 it asks you to make a minimum of 10K deposit when i look on the uk site.

Going to the UK link you provided it appears you must mail in an application form and it does require $10K to open a brokerage account according the form. The application is setup for an international address...it has a block for "State or Province", Country of Citizenship, Country of Legal Residence, etc. I'm assuming you are not a U.S. citizen. Apparently the application and funding requirements are different for U.S. citizens and non-U.S. citizens.

For me, as a U.S. citizen, I had to mail-in an applications (brokerage/savings/checking) because I was setting up a joint account; if it had been an Individual account I could have applied online. Actually, the brokerage and checking account application was on one combination form (no initial funding requirement for either) and the savings account application was a separate form (no initial funding requirement). But the application form at the UK webpage, the application is for a brokerage account only. I expect only U.S. citizens and U.S. Resident Aliens can apply for bank checking/savings accounts.

Appears you can indeed apply for a Schwab International account but the applications forms and requirements are different if you are not a U.S. citizen. If you are a U.S. citizen then go the Schwab U.S. web site and apply at that site.

Hopefully there are some non-U.S. citizen folks who have a Schwab account and can provide more specifics. Good luck.

[jfchandler]

Had this USAA news in my banking stuff tonight...

USAA Bank Announces the End of Its Debit Card Reward Program

Posted: 07 Jul 2011 11:16 PM PDT

A week after the Federal Reserve released its final rules on the debit card regulation, USAA Bank announced that it will be ending its debit card reward program. However, USAA Bank will be keeping its free checking account along with its ATM fee refunds. USAA Bank posted the announcement on its website in this news release:

A new federal law will significantly reduce the revenue banks receive from merchants when consumers pay with a debit card. USAA Bank has always returned the majority of this revenue to its members in the form of benefits, such as free checking, ATM fee refunds and debit rewards.

As a result of the law, USAA Bank will end its debit card rewards program Sept. 1.

The new regulation caps the debit card interchange fees that retailers pay every time you use your debit card. The regulation exempts financial institutions with assets under $10 billion. USAA Bank has $48 billion in assets so the fee caps will directly affect them. The regulation takes effect on October 1st.

USAA Bank's debit card reward program wasn't that great, so I doubt it will be missed. It only offered 0.5% cash back. For those interested in cash back rebates, they will probably be using a credit card. Since the regulation only affects debit cards, USAA Bank will continue to offer credit card cash back rewards.

According to USAA Bank, they conducted a survey to decide what to cut:

USAA's survey found that members favored free checking and ATM fee refunds over debit card rewards. Based on this feedback, we decided to stop the debit card rewards to maintain the other benefits

It's nice to see USAA Bank will be keeping its free checking along with its ATM fee refund policy which refunds up to $15 in other banks' ATM usage fees each month. The checking account will remain a good deal. Other perks that come from the free checking include mobile banking apps and Easy Deposit which allows you to deposit checks at UPS Stores around the nation. They also offer a remote deposit service called Deposit@Home, but they are still restricting this to customers who qualify for their insurance products which requires a military connection.

[Pib]

So, quoting from the USAA web site use of their Debit Card pretty much now boils down to:

USAA Bank refunds up to $15 in other banks' ATM usage fees each month and does not charge a fee for the first 10 ATM withdrawals. Subsequent transactions will be charged $2.00 each. A 1% foreign transaction fee applies to withdrawals outside the United States.

While being charged a 1% foreign transaction fee for withdrawing money outside the U.S., like doing an ATM withdrawal in Thailand, is not as good as the 0% fee offered by banks like Schwab, State Farm, and Capital One, the 1% fee is still on the low end when compared to many banks which charge 2 to 3% and sometimes along with an additional fee of $2 to $5 per transaction. Ex: Chase charges 3% + $5 per transaction--ouch!!!! See this Link for a summary of foreign transaction fees charged by various U.S., U.K., and Canadian banks.

And from my personal experience in using the USAA debit card once in Thailand after I opened a bank account with them getting an ATM fee reimbursement for ATM withdrawals outside the U.S. could very well require some conversations with their customer service department and sending in a copy of the ATM receipt. No problem in automatic ATM fee reimbursements on ATM withdrawals in the U.S., but according to USAA overseas ATMs may not break the basic withdrawal and fee out into separate amounts in the electronic transaction record sent to the debit card bank making it impossible for USAA to determine if a withdrawal fee was charged. I did get my 150 baht Bangkok Bank ATM fee reimbursed after several conversations with USAA customer service and emailing in a copy of the ATM receipt which showed the fee.

With above being said, USAA is a good bank, I have a checking and savings account with them, I do my U.S. BillPay through them, and use their Deposit@Home to deposit occasional checks I get. That Deposit@Home feature sure is nice....just scan in the check using the USAA Deposit@Home module which is so easy to use...I don't use this feature often but it sure is nice to be able to deposit a check you get in just a few minutes versus having to mail-in the check. State Farm Bank has such deposit module also, but I've never been able to get the module to work....it always says contact customer service when trying to use it...I'll have to call one day.

.

[jfchandler]

State Farm Bank has such deposit module also, but I've never been able to get the module to work....it always says contact customer service when trying to use it...I'll have to call one day.

Perhaps it's one of those things where the accountholder has to somehow register with them for the service first, or they have to otherwise enable it for one's account...

But more broadly, I'd say... anyone living here ought to find at least one home country bank or CU that they have an account with that makes the online check deposit service available.... given the fee expense and hassles and delay in trying to deposit foreign checks with Thai banks.

[taxout]

If you open an account with Schwab in the U.S., then you always have to maintain a U.S. mailing address on the account.

[llp]

Withdrew twice yesterday 7/12/11 @ 12:55pm just minutes apart on an SCB atm using Cap One Debit Mastercard, got a bad exchange rate.

15150 Baht / 505.16 USD

29.99

18150 Baht/ 605.19 USD

29.99

Mastercard Website 30.17

Visa Website 30.25

XE.com 30.32

T/T SBC 30.30

DCC @ ATM 29.39

Edited July 12, 2011 by llp

[jfchandler]

I'm assuming you also got hit with the Thai bank's 150 baht withdrawal fee on foreign cards, for each withdrawal....

The Bank of Thailand Interbank Exchange Rate for yesterday was 30.423, and the rate posted by Xrates.com was 30.35.

The gap between those kinds of rates, which you should have received, and what you got amounts to about a 1% spread... 0.30 baht to the dollar... Except, Cap One, as far as we know, doesn't charge any 1% foreign currency or card network fee.

My other thought was that SCB ATMs for U.S. MasterCards do tend to do Dynamic Currency Conversion... DCC...which is their way of setting their own below market exchange rate. But you appear to have seen that and included that an as even lower rate (29.39) in your post below, so I'm assuming you didn't get that one.

Withdrew twice yesterday 7/12/11 @ 12:55pm just minutes apart on an SCB atm using Cap One Debit Mastercard, got a bad exchange rate.

15150 Baht / 505.16 USD

29.99

18150 Baht/ 605.19 USD

29.99

Mastercard Website 30.17

Visa Website 30.25

XE.com 30.32

T/T SBC 30.30

DCC @ ATM 29.39

[llp]

I got hit by 150 Fee but included that in the calculation, it gets refunded to me later. Of course I declined the DCC rate, I took a picture of it for my records though. The posting date was on the 12th but at the time of the withdrawal it was still the 11th in some parts of the USA. Mastercard website shows 30.05 for the 11th which is not too far off. Will withdraw in the evening next time.

[JimGant]

Strange the 29.99 exchange rate for a Cap One MC withdrawal. I would think it would be almost dead-on to their published rate for 12 July of 30.175. And, at least with MC credit card purchases, even late afternoon, I'll get that day's published exchange rate for the finalized computation. This is not true for Visa credit card transactions -- even those done around noon will finalize with the next day's published rate. ATM transactions, however, are near-real time, and at least in Thailand, should match the current day's rate which is presumably established in a later time zone.

For example, I used my Schwab Visa Debit card at almost the same time as llp -- around noon, 12 July. This was in a Bangkok Bank ATM. I got the exact advertised rate as on the Visa site, namely .033123, or its reciprocal, 30.19 [25150/$833.04]. Half-hour later, I used my Visa credit card at Rimping. Finalized rate I got was the 13 July advertised rate, 30.28. Dead-on.

I've made same-time purchases using both Visa and MC (wife uses USAA MC in BigC, I'm next door using USAA Visa in HomePro), and MC uses same-day rate, Visa, next-day rate. I guess that's nice, if the dollar is rising -- although it doesn't compensate for the crummier FX rate you get with MC/Cirrus....

....PIB, earlier on in this thread, showed some rate comparisons, with MC getting bad reviews. So, just because I love to crunch numbers, I compared numbers from both the Visa and MC sites with Buying TT numbers from Bank of Thailand. Dates were 4 July to 14 July, excluding weekends:

Average Visa rate: 30.307

Average MC rate: 30.132

Average Buying TT rate: 30.204

Average rate ACH money to Thailand: 30.124

The latter assumes $10,000 sent, uses the 30.204 TT rate, discounted for the $10 front end, and 500 baht back-end fees.

Conclusion: Using a Schwab Visa Debit card for ATM pulls of 75k baht saves me about $15 per month over both a MC Debit card and the ACH (using BB ATM card) methods. The savings between MC and ACH, using the published MC rates, is only 65 cents. And if the 29.99 rate llp got represents an even worsening of MC foreign rates, well Visa really wins, hands down.

And, of course, using a Visa credit card over a MC credit card represents the same kind of savings.

Then, again, my sampling may be too small -- perhaps a longer sampling would show -- an even worse situation

Oh, Pib or JFC -- have only used the Schwab card once. Is the refund of the 150 baht automatic, or do I have to do something?

[jfchandler]

Oh, Pib or JFC -- have only used the Schwab card once. Is the refund of the 150 baht automatic, or do I have to do something?

Jim, I'm assuming you're talking about the Schwab VISA debit card associated with their "high yield" checking account.

For that account, foreign ATM fee refunds, as well as domestic U.S. ones, should be automatic, including of course the Thai banks' 150 baht foreign ATM card fee.

My Schwab ATM refunds, when I rarely have one, come at month's end for their statement cycle. But I recall one other poster here claiming he was getting Schwab ATM refunds immediately. I don't think I've ever heard any other Schwab account holder here report that, though.

Schwab specifically says on their web site, if they fail to do an automatic ATM fee refund, just call them, and they'll set it right.

I've never had to call fhem for that purpose. And I don't recall ever hearing any complaints about Schwab on that score.

[JimGant]

Jim, I'm assuming you're talking about the Schwab VISA debit card associated with their "high yield" checking account.

Yes. No refund showing yet for my 12 Jul withdrawal. Will see what happens at the end of the month.

Thanx.

[jfchandler]

Yup... just save your ATM receipt to be on the safe side...

And then the refund should show up during the first couple business days of next month, depending on how the weekend falls...

[Pib]

Oh, Pib or JFC -- have only used the Schwab card once. Is the refund of the 150 baht automatic, or do I have to do something?

Jim,

So far, I've only used my Schwab Visa Debit card in AEON ATMs so I haven't incurred any ATM fees. Looking at the Schwab Banking Disclosure Booklet it says ATM fees will appear as a lump sum credit on the periodic account statement. Appears the fees are reimbursed monthly...so check out your next account statement.

Cheers,

Pib