After 15 Years In Thailand And Going Back To The Us

[grumpyoldman]

Crazy drivers in the US compared with Thailand? That is a reach. After some areas in Europe, American drivers are perhaps the most considerate and safe in the world, from my experience. Thais don't even come close.

The OP was referring to Houston. Being from Dallas, I think he has a point.

The description certainly fits in certain parts of town. Not so sure about the highways though. In Dallas, it doesn't sound like a description of say Highland Park, or in Houston of Spring Branch. In Austin, we don't have anything like the above description in Westlake.

Highland Park (and University Park) are flyspecks on the map and in reality

The year I lived in Highland Park, they were equipping the cops with Mercedes patrol cars !!!

[mark45y]

Disgusting...no wonder Americans are such fat slobs and 50% of the children suffer from early onset Type 2 diabetes.

So says "Farang Buddha" a loving model of compassion and no doubt perfect himself. :lol:

I love Thai food, but you can't say it is entirely healthy. Deep fried foods abound. Sausages, "organ" type foods, coconut milk, palm oil, etc. Not everybody in the US eats the lousy types of food pictured. Most of my friends in the US don't...but for sure, many do.

I am here now visiting my Mom. I have to say we sure miss what is available here...but also miss many aspects of Thailand...primarily the great weather, cheap food and...mostly...the inexpensive living.

Shopping here is awesome. I'm in Vegas and the malls and stores are great. Lots more stuff available and usually at cheaper prices than in Thailand (if you compare apples to apples). I just returned from Fry's. Unreal. Sports Authority was great, as is many of the "Home Depot" type of stores. I live in Pattaya, and these types of stores are just not available there. We came here with empty suitcases and are returning with them full.

As has been posted before, many things in the US are quite good. Roads, drivers, internet, TV, etc. I don't agree with the OP. Sure, some things are much better in LOS, but some things are not.

This has been an interesting thread. I have never been to the States but the various comparisons between there and here in Thailand have been very informative. One thing that does not appear to have been discussed is comparisons of medical facilities. Cost, availability, insurance, treatments etc. Would anyone like to comment?

It depends on what is wrong with you and where you live and what kind of insurance you have and how old you are.

A lot of guys here have Medicare because they are over 65 and some have VA coverage because of military service and/or coverage of certain ailments because of exposure to, say agent orange.

VA is a complicated proposition and VA hospital care ranges from bad to excellent depending and a myriad of factors.

I had a major operation here in a Thai government hospital and it was a success with only minor complications. It cost less than a days stay in an American hospital and I was in the Thai hospital for two weeks.

Then again who really cares at my age. You die you die. I don't want to vegetate in a nursing home. Given a choice of 10 years in a nursing home or 10 months with a bevy of go go dancers cavorting around shamelessly in Pattaya, I'll take the ten months in Pattaya.

[craigt3365]

This has been an interesting thread. I have never been to the States but the various comparisons between there and here in Thailand have been very informative. One thing that does not appear to have been discussed is comparisons of medical facilities. Cost, availability, insurance, treatments etc. Would anyone like to comment?

Medical care is one big reason I am in Thailand. No insurance in the US is a killer...literally. The medical is pretty much top notch, but the costs if you are uninsured are plain crazy.

I used to debate with detractors about the merits of the USA (UK, Germany, ets..) vs. Thailand but I have ceased to engage in that futile endeavor. Now when folks tell me how undesirable it is to live in the USA (and countries mentioned above) I simply say "Man, you got that right" then walk away

However, if the developed world is so bad, why are so many people from the third/second world voting with their feet and doing every thing humanly possible to get in?

I've done a lot of traveling all over the world. Primarily in developing countries. I've pretty much heard in every country I've been to that the US is the place they want to live. Of course, the image on TV looks great!

[KRS1]

Try getting a high rise condo smack dab in the middle of any metropolitan city in the US and you'll be paying a whole lot more, something tells me your condo comparison isn't eye to eye to what you have/had in the US.

Luxury condos in downtown San Diego are cheaper than in Bangkok. And in Chicago, right over the Navy Pier, the prices are less than half of what a similar place would cost in Bangkok and the place is much better quality. I expect a Manhattan condo would be higher, but San Diego and Chicago cannot be outliers, and condos in other cities should be cheaper than Bangkok as well.

You like Thailand and don't like the US. I get it. I like Thailand, too. I choose to live here. But it isn't right to make blanket statements condemning the US when those statements just aren't true.

.

You're telling me a condo in the 'heart' of San Diego is less than Bangkok, how about the maintenence fees and property taxes, and electricity? I don't buy it.

[Thailaw]

Good education here is expensive and for the elite. In the US, its free.

Hardly...New York, New Jersey, and most of the other north-eastern states to which you seem so attached have some of the highest property and sales taxes in the nation. They are also broke so look for taxes to keep going up in these states.

The States pretty much suck big-time and much more enjoy my lifestyle in Thailand to pretty much anything available Stateside

Yes the sales tax rates are high, but the items (food, clothing, etc) on which most lower income people spend the largest portion of their income on are sales tax exempt (at least in NY and MA, and I assume many of the others). Property tax rates are also high, which means that if you have a highly valued home (regarless of the number of children) you will pay a lot of property tax. if you live in a very modest home or rent an apartment, you won't. Your taxes are not affected by the number of children you have (at the Federal level you get a tax credit foe each child). Like-situated individuals, one with 0 kids and one with 5 will pay the same taxes if they live in the same states. Public schools for an additional child are "free". If your point is that "there is no free lunch", I agree totally. But in the north east US, the higher income families subsidize greatly the education expenses of lower income families, and people with no children subsidize the educational expenses of those that do. Pretty good deal for the guy (and his kids) making $20,000 a year, renting a 2 bedroom apartment with 3 kids. He likely pays near zero tax federal and state (except if he is a beer drinker; beer is not sales tax exempt), including sales and property tax, and his kids get a descent education if he/they want it. This is one (probably the primary) reason that foreigners to the south sneak into the US illegally, to get the "freebies" that the state and federal governments hand out to them and their children.

As for my kids, when and if they go to the US they will go to private schools which I am very willing and able to afford. The best schools from an educational, cultural and social perspective are in the north east, so that is where I would focus. I don't think that the "States pretty much suck big-time", but I do agree that life here for "mature men" is far better than what is available in the US. And I may agree with you if Obama is reelected at the end of his second term--in such case, "suck big-time" may be a gross understatement.

From you approving comments re the "rich" subsidizing the education, and I assume other government services and transfer payments provided to the lower-classes and the poor, I would have thought you would welcome more of the Obama administration's "share the wealth" philosophy. It's attitudes like yours that form the major reason why I would never move back to the States...the wealthy pay the great majority of the income taxes, with the middle-classes kicking in a little around the margins, while the 40-50 percent in "poverty" pay nothing. However, they consume maybe 70 percent or so of the government's expenditures in welfare transfer payments, e.g., medicaid, Social Security, and the food stamp program.

So have fun paying twice for your children's private educations and the education of your non-taxpaying fellow citizens, not to mention tens of millions of illegal immigrants. I'll stick to my 7 percent VAT on goods and services I purchase in Thailand, thank you.

Where in the world did you get the notion that my comments are "approving". I was stating facts, no more or less, and trying to counter you naive claims that education for the lower and middle classes in the US north east is expensive (as your last post also suggests was a really stupid assertion ("while the 40-50 percent in "poverty" pay nothing")). Education (relatively good quality) for low and middle income earners in the US is a "steal". Here, in Thailand, what the Government provides by way of education (if one can call it that) "sucks" and will prepare you well to be a motorbike taxi driver or hotel maid, and private education (at B450k per year per child) is for the "elite" and certainly not for the average Thai or even average Farang resident. I did not come here to avoid taxes (or, like you, to vegitate), which I have not. I came here for the freedom and choices that are available in Thailand that have been lost or taken away in the US. The problem in the US, as I see it, is that the "have nots" now out number the "haves" (and US government policy is controlled by those that believe that they know better than individuals, and hence need to "control" their behavior), and Obama (coupled with Pelosi and Barney Frank) is (are) a prime example(s) of that phenomenon and how it can all go very, very wrong. The only issue is how much the paracites can suck from the host (the income earners, producers) before they kill it -- they certainly have encouraged/forced many to flee and for jobs and production to move overseas (and then they wonder why the US economy is in "recession" -- duh!). Health care "reform" will hasten the process, and push more jobs to places like China, Indonesia and Thailand. I am not happy to see this process, but there is not much that the "minority" (we are not a "protected class") can do about it. So, as Von Hayek said, "you vote with your feet", and I have voted. And I will "pay" for my children's private education no matter where I/they live, so better that I get the best "bang" for my buck, which for education is definitely the US (and certainly not in Thailand, and I want them to experience western culture in any event). And I won't have fun "paying twice" for my kids education, but I will take satisfaction in knowing that they got the best education that I can provide (I can only imagine what kind of education your children received -- duh!). And just one observation, if your moniker isn't meant to be a joke, you should really consider changing it. Your ideas (at least as expressed above) are about as far from those of Buddha as any two things could be.

[maccaroni man]

Try getting a high rise condo smack dab in the middle of any metropolitan city in the US and you'll be paying a whole lot more, something tells me your condo comparison isn't eye to eye to what you have/had in the US.

Luxury condos in downtown San Diego are cheaper than in Bangkok. And in Chicago, right over the Navy Pier, the prices are less than half of what a similar place would cost in Bangkok and the place is much better quality. I expect a Manhattan condo would be higher, but San Diego and Chicago cannot be outliers, and condos in other cities should be cheaper than Bangkok as well.

You like Thailand and don't like the US. I get it. I like Thailand, too. I choose to live here. But it isn't right to make blanket statements condemning the US when those statements just aren't true.

.

You're telling me a condo in the 'heart' of San Diego is less than Bangkok, how about the maintenence fees and property taxes, and electricity? I don't buy it.

before i moved to bkk in 1996 i looked at serviced apartments in san fran they ran 900 to 1200 dollars when i tried to get the same quality in bkk it was more than 2000 dollars????? i was blown away.

[IanForbes]

It's been an interesting topic, but I think some people are trying to compare apples to oranges. I've been to 47 of the 50 US states, and even within each state there are vast differences in quality of life. I live on Vancouver Island on the west coast of Canada and I can't fairly compare even the towns within the island, let alone our west coast cities in comparison to cites in other provinces.

Canada and the USA have a lot of similarities, but we are VERY different in many ways. Our health care systems are vastly different. So are our political systems. Unless you have a privately paid for medical coverage plan in the USA it is quite possible to lose everything you own due to needing a fairly simple medical procedure. That would never happen in Canada or the UK. My Australian father in law had a serious heart attack while traveling in the UK. He was in the hospital for 2 months, but everything was taken care of at very little cost. A friends daughter had a serious accident in France. Again, it was taken care of by the French medicare system.

I wouldn't try to compare Bangkok to Chiang Mai and say one is better than the other. I prefer Chiang Mai, but only because it's smaller and easier to get around. Bangkok offers far more services if you know where to look and don't mind the hour's of travel trying to get through the city.

I have always done my own shopping in both Canada and Thailand. I know what I can easily get in Canada and that's just not available in Thailand. Although a bit more expensive, there is far more variety in Canadian food outlets than I've ever seen in Thialand. By contrast, when I needed some dental work done it was done at a fraction of the cost in Thailand... and by highly skilled professionals. I saved $10,000 US funds by having dental work done in Chiang Mai instead of Canada. I met an American man who came to Bangkok to have a serious heart opperation done. It cost him about $60,000 US funds for an operation that would have cost $600,000 in the US. I saw him 2 years later and everything was working fine. I have another American friend who just had open heart surgery done in Chiang Mai. It seems to have been a success. He could not have afforded the operation in the USA and would probably die because of it.

Yes, there are many much more expensive things in Thailand than similar things in the west. Electronics, autos, and most imported goods are more expensive in Thailand than just across the border in neighbouring countries, but who wants to live in Burma or Cambodia or a Muslim country with all the restrictions? Thailand is going backwards in the field of electronics and both phone systems and the internet are hopelessly out of date. The dial up internet I had in Canada 15 years ago is faster than the so called ADSL here in Chiang Mai.

But, many of the things we complain about in Thailand are also what makes this country unique and exciting. North American is over regulated and we are expected to act like little robots and be protected from cradle to grave. In Thailand you have to make it on your own smarts and hard work.

[MJP]

Can't call Houston, Tx my hometown but lived there for six years...essentially as long as in NakWan.

After living in Thailand I'm amazed that Thailand is still so far behind technologically compared to the US, the US is lagging behind big time. There's only a preium single satellite provider that charges 2x the money for only 1/5the channels. Outside of Bangkok you are lucky to have more than one choice of an ISP that promises good speed and redirects your speedtests to a local server. All the (admittedly unlocked) phones are usually over priced. Finding good prices on any recent electronics is a nightmare. I spent time in Chonburi, Samut Prakarn and finally here in Nakhon Sawan and can attest to Thailand's deficiency in almost every aspect...Most shopping malls are old, movie theaters are old and show movies that are edited sometimes to the point of absurdity, public transport is old, roads are cracked with pot holes, and food and cigarettes have risen substantially. - and since I am not a babbling idiot I do miss the 'self checkout'...and the modicum of knowledge that most all people that work in stores in the States are able to demonstrate (along with not following me around like I'm casing the joint).

This is only one of the things that depressed me, essentially whenever you need to find information you'd be better off asking a mute donkey than a Thai. How can someone work in a industry and not be able to answer the most basic questions? A walk through the mall or a drive down the street in the wrong part of town can literally be dangerous, in America pretty much no matter where you are you can count on not being ran over using the crossing lanes, expect your taxi driver to be yaa baa free, and if an accident does occur the other party to be responsible enough to stay around until it is resolved...and for you to be able to get first class care if it's serious enough.

I'd have to say the banking system in Thailand is light years behind of the US, ATM's on every corner, convenient locations everywhere and secure online access that sometimes works do nothing to make up for the appalling lack of customer service inside the branches.

When I stepped out of my house I look around and not a taxi, tuk tuk , bus, MRT, BTS or mocye in sight.....but a whole bunch of panderias and taquerias where i can go to pick up a quick bite. At no point doe my heart yearns to wave down a mocye taxi, go to the market and pick a dish for 30 baht and get it wrapped up in a plastic bag tied with a rubber band--I didn't have to worry about food poisoining. Price, especially considering that I made more than 5x what a Thai government official made, was only 3x as expensive for juevos rancheros, bacon, fresh made tortillas, and coffee. Thus I actually paid 60% of what a Thai would in Thailand.

I'm glad I'm not a drunk who moved to Thailand to satisfy my need to feel important by picking up birds that are so much younger than I. When I do go out to party in the States the selection is much bigger and at cheaper prices..and that's not even talking about buying from the store!

I miss the dirt cheap prices and selection of cars from the States. There is something infinitely cool about picking up a small block V8 for ~1500 USD (45 000 THB) and dropping another 3500 USD on it to have a car that will make a tickle in your pickle. And let's not even discuss the motorbike pricing. Roads to drive on are sensibly laid out, they're clearly marked and there's a wide variety that are mostly in good repair. Traffic rules are enforced across the board (you don't have rich families kids driving unliscensed and public out rage that they murder 9 people and are probably going to get a 400 THB fine or going crazy and running people over at a bus stop).

Season changes I miss most of all; there's nothing like watching the leaves turn and knowing that soon the earth will be covered with a soft blanket of white.

Wow, that was too easy!

BRAVO well done :jap:

+1 I mean your man there's quite right, it's a feral dump, it's different.

But it's cheap, even with the quid down, it's so very cheap.

And the sun shines upon my face.

[MJP]

The main reason they were happy to be here was they expect property taxes to increase massively in states with low rates, as they try and bailout neighbouring bankrupt states, they really couldn't see the US making it past 2013 without outright default.

We often forget here that we're benefiting from the Thai's sufficiency economy, if you just live a fairly basic lifestyle. I had Kow Pad Cai earlier, 25 Baht!!! . . . and it was very nice.

I think you'll still find millions living 'sufficiency economy' type lives in the US as well and will continue to do so for a long time. It doesn't have to mean growing your own vegetables. It means getting a v-6 engine instead of a v-8 or v-12, of owning 2-3 modest homes paid off instead of paying down mortgages on 4, etc. As for the taxes... state and local anyway, I think you get what you pay for. It's very easy to see where the better schools and most of the 'brighter minds' come from.... where folks are willing to shoulder the heavier tax burdens. Not saying the system is great... it's leaky and old, but in the end, the results are still pretty liveable -and really, most people living in the higher tax areas could easily jump ship, but most don't, at least not permanently in the 'burn your bridges' style.

Tell that to my cousin in Los Angeles. Oh no, that's right you can't. See he's back in Afghanistan on the front lines so he can pay his ridiculous mortgage on the small house he has in Monrovia after losing his job in Newport Beach and unable to find another one. Just been made up to Captain.

He misses his children.

[FarangBuddha]

Disgusting...no wonder Americans are such fat slobs and 50% of the children suffer from early onset Type 2 diabetes.

So says "Farang Buddha" a loving model of compassion and no doubt perfect himself. :lol:

Funny how people who don't seem to know anything about Buddhism seem to think it's all about "compassion." The most important aspect or theme of Buddhism is to see things as they really are...to perfect one's own mind and thought process. When I see food like that and 50% of Americans being clinically obese, I make the logical link.

The compassionate thing is to point this out and tell "fat" people to their faces that there is very likely a high correlation between the food they eat and their diabetes, gout, heart disease, etc. and that they may want to reconsider their eating habits.

Edited January 7, 2011 by FarangBuddha

[FarangBuddha]

Try getting a high rise condo smack dab in the middle of any metropolitan city in the US and you'll be paying a whole lot more, something tells me your condo comparison isn't eye to eye to what you have/had in the US.

Luxury condos in downtown San Diego are cheaper than in Bangkok. And in Chicago, right over the Navy Pier, the prices are less than half of what a similar place would cost in Bangkok and the place is much better quality. I expect a Manhattan condo would be higher, but San Diego and Chicago cannot be outliers, and condos in other cities should be cheaper than Bangkok as well.

You like Thailand and don't like the US. I get it. I like Thailand, too. I choose to live here. But it isn't right to make blanket statements condemning the US when those statements just aren't true.

.

You're telling me a condo in the 'heart' of San Diego is less than Bangkok, how about the maintenence fees and property taxes, and electricity? I don't buy it.

before i moved to bkk in 1996 i looked at serviced apartments in san fran they ran 900 to 1200 dollars when i tried to get the same quality in bkk it was more than 2000 dollars????? i was blown away.

That was in the Bangkok bubble period...right before the 1997 crash. A little like Miami or Las Vegas in 1995.

But even now, it's probably the same now...BKK being more expensive than SFO...and why not? Asian and Thailand is booming...Mexifornia/San Francisco has record high unemployment rates of 12% (+), a plunging real estate market, and high-taxes and business regulations.

[MJP]

Disgusting...no wonder Americans are such fat slobs and 50% of the children suffer from early onset Type 2 diabetes.

So says "Farang Buddha" a loving model of compassion and no doubt perfect himself. :lol:

Funny how people who don't seem to know anything about Buddhism seem to think it's all about "compassion." The most important aspect or theme of Buddhism is to see things as they really are...to perfect one's own mind and thought process. When I see food like that and 50% of Americans being clinically obese, I make the logical link.

The compassionate thing is to point this out and tell "fat" people to their faces that there is very likely a high correlation between the food they eat and their diabetes, gout, heart disease, etc. and that they may want to reconsider their eating habits.

Everyone's fat now. Globally. Hell I see Thai people that even make me look anorexic.

I refer you to this thread.

Hilarious pizza thread, made my day!

[Tolley]

I am not American but the question i would ask those that sing the praises of Thailand over the US is:

If you were rich where would you prefer to live?

Personally I like the idea of coming in and out of Thailand as and when i please.

But I still prefer to keep my primary residence in my home country Australia.

[HaruHaru]

I am not American but the question i would ask those that sing the praises of Thailand over the US is:

If you were rich where would you prefer to live?

U.S.A. Probably somewhere in Laguna beach or La Jolla for me.

Forget Houston or Bangkok.

Compare Thailand and U.S.A. from the rank of countries by the Human Development Index in 2010.

http://en.wikipedia....velopment_Index

U.S.A. # 4

Thailand # 92

You do the maths.

[Tolley]

I am not American but the question i would ask those that sing the praises of Thailand over the US is:

If you were rich where would you prefer to live?

U.S.A. Probably somewhere in Laguna beach or La Jolla for me.

Forget Houston or Bangkok.

Compare Thailand and U.S.A. from the rank of countries by the Human Development Index in 2010.

http://en.wikipedia....velopment_Index

U.S.A. # 4

Thailand # 92

You do the maths.

That would be my contention as well.

All the other issues raised in this thread are really side issues.

In most cases it all comes down to money.

[Heng]

Highland park is just right around the corner from Love field, which is a pretty ghetto hispanic area. My mother lives on Turtle Creek Blvd, if you know where that is then you know its a posh area. However if I go down 2 lights and I'm back at the ghetto. Her Benz got broken into in front of Ross.

I think it may have been a while since you've been around Spring Branch, that whole area between I-10 and 290 is went down hill, even more so than when I left 15 years ago. Everyone's migrating to the Eldridge area these days.

My father lives in West U so its fairly decent and safe, but roll down Bissonet/Bellaire towards Sharpstown mall and its on.

Actually it has been awhile. Was basing most of my opinion on the still 'away from it all' west Austin lifestyle.... probably saved largely by the whole Silicon Hills thing. Was assuming that my teenage year haunts in Dallas and Houston made out just as well.

[bonobo]

Try getting a high rise condo smack dab in the middle of any metropolitan city in the US and you'll be paying a whole lot more, something tells me your condo comparison isn't eye to eye to what you have/had in the US.

Luxury condos in downtown San Diego are cheaper than in Bangkok. And in Chicago, right over the Navy Pier, the prices are less than half of what a similar place would cost in Bangkok and the place is much better quality. I expect a Manhattan condo would be higher, but San Diego and Chicago cannot be outliers, and condos in other cities should be cheaper than Bangkok as well.

You like Thailand and don't like the US. I get it. I like Thailand, too. I choose to live here. But it isn't right to make blanket statements condemning the US when those statements just aren't true.

.

You're telling me a condo in the 'heart' of San Diego is less than Bangkok, how about the maintenence fees and property taxes, and electricity? I don't buy it.

You really don't have to buy it. All I can say is that I have priced condos along the river, in Pin Klao, and on Sukhumvhit in Bangkok and in the Gaslamp in San Diego, and San Diego is cheaper. And Chicago, in the most exclusive section, is significantly cheaper. You can take it or leave it.

As far as condo fees, I only know what they are in Bangkok, so I can't really comment on that.

[maccaroni man]

before i moved to bkk in 1996 i looked at serviced apartments in san fran they ran 900 to 1200 dollars when i tried to get the same quality in bkk it was more than 2000 dollars????? i was blown away.

That was in the Bangkok bubble period...right before the 1997 crash. A little like Miami or Las Vegas in 1995.

But even now, it's probably the same now...BKK being more expensive than SFO...and why not? Asian and Thailand is booming...Mexifornia/San Francisco has record high unemployment rates of 12% (+), a plunging real estate market, and high-taxes and business regulations.

well first off sfo has a huge china town, a japan town a korea town and a large philipino population along with irish, italians and mexicans and they all have the same rights. SFO has got to be one of the planets most popular tourist destination and it is quite user friendly. I simply can not compare the quality of life between bkk and sfo but hey maybe thats just me.

[laurentbkk]

Compare what should be compare ..... Thailand 20years ago was not as good as now ( I have been here for 20y) ... When I go back to my country I like the well organized road , not so much traffic, good foreign food at good price ...CHEAP wine compare with Thailand . The grass is never greener in the neighbors gardens. Maybe because Houston is a crap city but NYC,Chicago,SF,Seattle are really great to spend time.

[Snig27]

I guess i should elaborate on my view point of the Thai vs American educational system.

A global survey just before Xmas put the US at 58th in the world at maths and around 50 in English! The thing about the US system that when it is good it is very good and when it's bad it's worse than any other (semi?) developed nation. The US has some of the best Universities on the planet but it also has a huge mass of uneducated and ignorant people who have dropped through the system.

If I was choosing an education system in 2011 I'd be looking at Australia, large parts of Europe, New Zealand, Singapore or Canada ahead of the US unless I knew my child was going to be going to one of the schools that wasn't keeping those numbers low. I'd chose each of those places for quality of life ahead of the US too.

[WarpSpeed]

I am not American but the question i would ask those that sing the praises of Thailand over the US is:

If you were rich where would you prefer to live?

U.S.A. Probably somewhere in Laguna beach or La Jolla for me.

Forget Houston or Bangkok.

Compare Thailand and U.S.A. from the rank of countries by the Human Development Index in 2010.

http://en.wikipedia....velopment_Index

U.S.A. # 4

Thailand # 92

You do the maths.

That would be my contention as well.

All the other issues raised in this thread are really side issues.

In most cases it all comes down to money.

I wasn't rich in Florida and loved it, lived comfortably under clean blue skies with nice clean white sand beaches and clean rivers canals and natural springs. Here I wouldn't put my toes in the water because if it's not tainted with Thai pollution it's tainted with the country's north of here there as the water flows south and this becomes the toilet bowl of Asia even in the north of Thailand. There are also many safe family activities back home to do too and a good chance to make a decent living. Yes I'm going back and as soon as is possible so no need to tell me to leave Thailand then if I don't love it.. It's a pit stop in my life and nothing more..

Edited January 7, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[Thailaw]

I am not American but the question i would ask those that sing the praises of Thailand over the US is:

If you were rich where would you prefer to live?

U.S.A. Probably somewhere in Laguna beach or La Jolla for me.

Forget Houston or Bangkok.

Compare Thailand and U.S.A. from the rank of countries by the Human Development Index in 2010.

http://en.wikipedia....velopment_Index

U.S.A. # 4

Thailand # 92

You do the maths.

That would be my contention as well.

All the other issues raised in this thread are really side issues.

In most cases it all comes down to money.

The people that have chosen Thailand as a place to live because it is "cheap" have, in my view, made a very big mistake. If you don't enjoy the culture, the environment and the things that Thailand has to offer (some cheap, some expensive), then you really should be living somewhere else. This is not the place for everyone, but it is not the place for anyone who just want "cheap". It would be great if life and where we live was a smorgasboard -- picking the best from one place and the best from another and putting it all together and calling it "home". But we all have to pick a place to live, and I would rather live in Thailand and spend a few weeks vacationing elsewhere (the US or where ever) than to live somewhere else and vacation of a few weeks a year here. I am sometimes struct by the fact that millions of people from all over the world spend a lot of money to come to Thailand for the few weeks of vacation, and I live here, it is my home. If I wasn't very happy here, I'd go somewhere else.... full stop. I think I'll stay, thanks.

[bonobo]

I guess i should elaborate on my view point of the Thai vs American educational system.

A global survey just before Xmas put the US at 58th in the world at maths and around 50 in English! The thing about the US system that when it is good it is very good and when it's bad it's worse than any other (semi?) developed nation. The US has some of the best Universities on the planet but it also has a huge mass of uneducated and ignorant people who have dropped through the system.

If I was choosing an education system in 2011 I'd be looking at Australia, large parts of Europe, New Zealand, Singapore or Canada ahead of the US unless I knew my child was going to be going to one of the schools that wasn't keeping those numbers low. I'd chose each of those places for quality of life ahead of the US too.

Granted that the US public school system lags that of many, many nations. As I posted earlier, even China does a better job in certain subjects. But the OP was directly slagging off the US in comparison with Thailand, and in that regard, US public schools are better.

It isn't until you get to the university level that the US educational institutions start to rise to the top.

[Jingthing]

The USA is on my short list of economically distressed countries to move to in case I decide to leave Thailand.

[Heng]

The main reason they were happy to be here was they expect property taxes to increase massively in states with low rates, as they try and bailout neighbouring bankrupt states, they really couldn't see the US making it past 2013 without outright default.

We often forget here that we're benefiting from the Thai's sufficiency economy, if you just live a fairly basic lifestyle. I had Kow Pad Cai earlier, 25 Baht!!! . . . and it was very nice.

I think you'll still find millions living 'sufficiency economy' type lives in the US as well and will continue to do so for a long time. It doesn't have to mean growing your own vegetables. It means getting a v-6 engine instead of a v-8 or v-12, of owning 2-3 modest homes paid off instead of paying down mortgages on 4, etc. As for the taxes... state and local anyway, I think you get what you pay for. It's very easy to see where the better schools and most of the 'brighter minds' come from.... where folks are willing to shoulder the heavier tax burdens. Not saying the system is great... it's leaky and old, but in the end, the results are still pretty liveable -and really, most people living in the higher tax areas could easily jump ship, but most don't, at least not permanently in the 'burn your bridges' style.

Tell that to my cousin in Los Angeles. Oh no, that's right you can't. See he's back in Afghanistan on the front lines so he can pay his ridiculous mortgage on the small house he has in Monrovia after losing his job in Newport Beach and unable to find another one. Just been made up to Captain.

He misses his children.

Yeah, I've always been of the frame of mind that both home ownership and having children are something that shouldn't be done if you're going to need to pay interest. That's not sufficiency type living.

[Berkshire]

Luxury condos in downtown San Diego are cheaper than in Bangkok. And in Chicago, right over the Navy Pier, the prices are less than half of what a similar place would cost in Bangkok and the place is much better quality. I expect a Manhattan condo would be higher, but San Diego and Chicago cannot be outliers, and condos in other cities should be cheaper than Bangkok as well.

You like Thailand and don't like the US. I get it. I like Thailand, too. I choose to live here. But it isn't right to make blanket statements condemning the US when those statements just aren't true.

You're telling me a condo in the 'heart' of San Diego is less than Bangkok, how about the maintenence fees and property taxes, and electricity? I don't buy it.

Condos may not be a good comparison between the USA/Thailand. Condos in the US generally cost less than single family homes, but in Thailand, it seems to be the opposite in a lot of cases (comparable properties). This has to do with foreigners only being able to buy condos, which has artificially lifted the condo prices. But the maintenance fee issue is significant. It varies greatly, but some luxury condos in the US will charge upwards of 8,000 baht a month just on maintenance fees. Non-tax deductible, of course. A lot of folks in Thailand will complain about the lack of upkeep and building maintenance, but if you're paying next to nothing in MF, that's why.

[Jingthing]

I was checking out the real estate for sale listings in Fort Lauderdale Florida for budget priced condos. I am talking cheap ones like 2 million baht. The typical monthly maintenance fees were 20,000 baht. Per month. Yes, per month. That isn't typical in the US but has something to do with the real estate crash (people foreclosing, walking away from their properties, few people paying the fees).

[Berkshire]

I was checking out the real estate for sale listings in Fort Lauderdale Florida for budget priced condos. I am talking cheap ones like 2 million baht. The typical monthly maintenance fees were 20,000 baht. Per month. Yes, per month. That isn't typical in the US but has something to do with the real estate crash (people foreclosing, walking away from their properties, few people paying the fees).

Exactly. And the condo association will make you pay that every single month or put a lien on your unit if you fail to comply. MF can be pretty outrageous and it's usually based on sq footage of your unit. And you pay it pretty much forever. It amazes me how Thai condos can make due with next to nothing in MF. Well, not that amazed. That's why buildings deteriorate so quickly here.

[Ijustwannateach]

The way I often try to explain some differences here is that Thailand is in many ways what the so-called 'tea-party' and 'neoconservative' types say they want back in the States: less government involvement in the economy (with the exception of using the laws as an excuse to farm bribes). Don't want to pay for decent public services, streets, hospitals, fire departments, schools? Fine, don't pay. That means taxes and other indirect costs are genuinely much lower for most people- and services are meagre and insufficient. Want a good school for your child? You're going to pay by yourself. Want medical treatment? You're going to pay by yourself. Down and out, out of luck? Too bad.

Personally, I would prefer more of a safety net. But they didn't ask me.

[MJP]

The main reason they were happy to be here was they expect property taxes to increase massively in states with low rates, as they try and bailout neighbouring bankrupt states, they really couldn't see the US making it past 2013 without outright default.

We often forget here that we're benefiting from the Thai's sufficiency economy, if you just live a fairly basic lifestyle. I had Kow Pad Cai earlier, 25 Baht!!! . . . and it was very nice.

I think you'll still find millions living 'sufficiency economy' type lives in the US as well and will continue to do so for a long time. It doesn't have to mean growing your own vegetables. It means getting a v-6 engine instead of a v-8 or v-12, of owning 2-3 modest homes paid off instead of paying down mortgages on 4, etc. As for the taxes... state and local anyway, I think you get what you pay for. It's very easy to see where the better schools and most of the 'brighter minds' come from.... where folks are willing to shoulder the heavier tax burdens. Not saying the system is great... it's leaky and old, but in the end, the results are still pretty liveable -and really, most people living in the higher tax areas could easily jump ship, but most don't, at least not permanently in the 'burn your bridges' style.

Tell that to my cousin in Los Angeles. Oh no, that's right you can't. See he's back in Afghanistan on the front lines so he can pay his ridiculous mortgage on the small house he has in Monrovia after losing his job in Newport Beach and unable to find another one. Just been made up to Captain.

He misses his children.

Yeah, I've always been of the frame of mind that both home ownership and having children are something that shouldn't be done if you're going to need to pay interest. That's not sufficiency type living.

Nail . . . on . . . head.

Yes, you and me both. Trouble is those poor souls back home can't afford homes in cash, whereas us 'adventurous' types that came here can, easily.

Real mess back there.