After 15 Years In Thailand And Going Back To The Us

[maccaroni man]

And yet I have in the past expressed similar feelings to the OP when 'jailed' in the USA. It's actually hard to put your finger on it, and the smelliness of movie theaters doesn't really enter into it, but... 'something' is missing when you move to Farangland...

Yea, desperate females.

[thunder30101]

Dont listen much to alcoholics with an ass fixation myself.

[mark45y]

Six years since I have driven a car, paid for insurance or waited more than a couple of minutes to see a doctor.

Six years since I have written a check.

People talk to me when I walk down the street. The old bus driver with no teeth asks me about my health and knows my name. Life seems simpler here.

I have to admit I would not have picked Houston to go back to. I lived there 20 years ago and didn't like the place then. Maybe San Antonio would have been a better choice.

When I decided to retire I had it narrowed down to Vancouver or Chiang Mai. If I was a big money guy like Ian I would split my time between the two but there would be the problem with air fare of the 20 go go dancers back to Canada. Nothing wrong with the Pacific Northwest of Canada that 20 go go dancers couldn't cure.

I admit to not going to movies here. I think watching the ladies is more fun. I keep thinking I will get the movie when it comes out on DVD and the ladies will be married and off the stage never to be seen again and I might miss something really good.

I have another reason for not going back to the States. My children convinced me to get a face book page so I could stay in touch better. Well, that hooked me into my ex wife's face book page. The X has re married quiet well and now owns at least 5 homes all in places where the in-crowd has homes and does only things the in-crowd does with people only seen on A lists.

I have to tell you, if you didn't know it, I am not a very in-crowd type of person. I do things the in-crowd would never do with people not even on the Thai Visa A list. If you can imagine people not even on the Thai Visa A list you know who I hang out with.

While I live in Thailand my children think I am eccentric but if I moved back to the states they would know I am downright weird.

[Hawaiian]

Before I got back to TX I was also in Honolulu and NYC and a brief stint in Dallas (which is worst than Houston)...and it all seems ghetto, in Hawaii you cant even go to the restroom inside of a mcdonalds without asking for the key do to all the meth heads, what happens if i have to take a dump while im outside? I will first be required to buy a piece of fried chicken before they let me in? Not to mention Hawaii has one of if not THE biggest homeless population in the US. I love Hawaii too, but its not the paradise its cracked up to be, most people have to work 2 jobs just to survive. My sister lives there.

Homelessness is a major problem throughout the U.S. and Hawaii is no exception. One of the reasons for Hawaii's homeless population explosion is the idea of living in "Paradise" draws these people from all over the U.S. It has been reported that the welfare departments in some states have actually purchased one-way tickets for these street people to get them off their rolls. Hawaii's mild weather, generous welfare benefits and shortage of affordable housing doesn't help either.

I would never live in Honolulu, just as I would never live Bangkok. Honolulu is not Hawaii and Bangkok is not Thailand. I have always lived in a rural community and that is the lifestyle that suits me. Although my wife is a native of Bangkok she also likes where we live. And we don't live in a ghetto.

No matter where you live there are always trade offs. While not wealthy, I have never had more than one job at a time. Yet I have managed to provide for my family and am now enjoying my retirement. I owned my own business for over 35 years and learned to deal with the bureaucracy without ever paying a single bribe.

Although I rarely eat at McDonalds, I never had that experience. Gas stations, yes.

[zaphodbeeblebrox]

While I prefer Thailand to the US, let me enlighten you about some of the realities of Thailand:

1) The internet has piss poor speed out of all of Thailand, so to say that Thailand is more technologically advanced is a joke.

2) The Thai banking industry is living in the 20th century. Their auditing and accounting practices are archaic. Have you ever tried to deposit a foreign drawn check in a Thai bank. 30 days to clear - what a joke! How is having a lot of ATM's a better banking system?

3) Thai beer is awful, American beer is awful (except for micro-brews)

I do agree with you about the food, particularly the Mexican restaurants in Thailand. However, I have found that you can make adequate Mexican food at home, although I do miss quality white corn tortillas. Since you lived in Honolulu, you probably know that Keo's is superior to any Thai restaurant in Thailand. I can't say the same for other Thai restaurants in America.

[Chunky1]

I know you guys hate to hear this and most of you won't admit it, but the truth is that the biggest offering Thailand has for you old buggers is destitute young females. I think that is normal since men think about sex every other minute. Really, what is so different about the USA from Thailand? There is good food and good living all over the world. There are many advantages in the USA vs Thailand and there is no rule that you can't vacation in Thailand whenever you want.

No, in reality, it's just that your money has more purchasing power in Thailand and that there are so many destitute women in Thailand that you feel like a king. Don't tell me 18 yo Western girls are not cute and that you don't get a hard-on walking around a college campus. The problem is that unless you have a Ferrari and connections to the music industry these girls wouldn't go near you with a borrowed ten foot pole.

Go to Google Maps street view and take a look at what life looks like along the Florida coast.

Edited January 6, 2011 by Chunky1

[mark45y]

I know you guys hate to hear this and most of you won't admit it, but the truth is that the biggest offering Thailand has for you old buggers is destitute young females. I think that is normal since men think about sex every other minute. Really, what is so different about the USA from Thailand? There is good food and good living all over the world. There are many advantages in the USA vs Thailand and there is no rule that you can't vacation in Thailand whenever you want.

No, in reality, it's just that your money has more purchasing power in Thailand and that there are so many destitute women in Thailand that you feel like a king. Don't tell me 18 yo Western girls are not cute and that you don't get a hard-on walking around a college campus. The problem is that unless you have a Ferrari and connections to the music industry these girls wouldn't go near you with a borrowed ten foot pole.

Go to Google Maps street view and take a look at what life looks like along the Florida coast.

I don't hate to hear it Chunky. I lived in Florida, had a big Caddy, and connections to the music business. My kids got used to the fact that I lived with an 18 year old stripper. It took them a while but she was different.

I came to Thailand to get away from 18 year old American strippers. Too many drugs. They don't like going to church either.

Thailand has kinder and gentler go go dancers. They like going to the Wat after work (I'm quiet religious). All and all a better class of people. They cook better too. Have you ever had an 18 year old American stripper cook for you? Dangerous experience. Of course there are exceptions.

Even if money is no object Thailand comes out a winner on the lady front.

[IanForbes]

Six years since I have driven a car, paid for insurance or waited more than a couple of minutes to see a doctor.

Six years since I have written a check.

People talk to me when I walk down the street. The old bus driver with no teeth asks me about my health and knows my name. Life seems simpler here.

I have to admit I would not have picked Houston to go back to. I lived there 20 years ago and didn't like the place then. Maybe San Antonio would have been a better choice.

When I decided to retire I had it narrowed down to Vancouver or Chiang Mai. If I was a big money guy like Ian I would split my time between the two but there would be the problem with air fare of the 20 go go dancers back to Canada. Nothing wrong with the Pacific Northwest of Canada that 20 go go dancers couldn't cure.

I admit to not going to movies here. I think watching the ladies is more fun. I keep thinking I will get the movie when it comes out on DVD and the ladies will be married and off the stage never to be seen again and I might miss something really good.

I have another reason for not going back to the States. My children convinced me to get a face book page so I could stay in touch better. Well, that hooked me into my ex wife's face book page. The X has re married quiet well and now owns at least 5 homes all in places where the in-crowd has homes and does only things the in-crowd does with people only seen on A lists.

I have to tell you, if you didn't know it, I am not a very in-crowd type of person. I do things the in-crowd would never do with people not even on the Thai Visa A list. If you can imagine people not even on the Thai Visa A list you know who I hang out with.

While I live in Thailand my children think I am eccentric but if I moved back to the states they would know I am downright weird.

Are you SURE we're not bothers, Mark?

Of course, Chunky was also correct...

I know you guys hate to hear this and most of you won't admit it, but the truth is that the biggest offering Thailand has for you old buggers is destitute young females. I think that is normal since men think about sex every other minute. Really, what is so different about the USA from Thailand? There is good food and good living all over the world. There are many advantages in the USA vs Thailand and there is no rule that you can't vacation in Thailand whenever you want.

No, in reality, it's just that your money has more purchasing power in Thailand and that there are so many destitute women in Thailand that you feel like a king. Don't tell me 18 yo Western girls are not cute and that you don't get a hard-on walking around a college campus. The problem is that unless you have a Ferrari and connections to the music industry these girls wouldn't go near you with a borrowed ten foot pole.

Thailand, where you have warm weather when you want it to be warm, and lovely women who truly are warm. What could be better than that?

Vancouver Island and the areas around Vancouver BC truly are lovely... but mostly for young people who have the money to spend on luxuries. Some day I'll go down to Victoria where my children live and take photos of the hobos and druggies living on the street. Or, I'll go over to Vancouver and take a trip through east Hastings area where many destitute rubbies live in cardboard cartons. I'll take a few photos of the food line-ups and soup kitchens for the druggies. They live in worse squallor than what I see in Chiang Mai. I'm quite certain they aren't getting any sex... unless they rape some woman who is just as down and out as they are.

North America is for young people who hearts and eyes are still full of stars. Single folks over the age of 50 are supposed to sit on park benches and feed the pidgeons... or play golf, watch TV and talk about the good old days. They are NOT supposed ot have sex or oggle pretty women. Even old married guys are supposed to give up sex somewhere around the age of 50 and just do what their wives tell them to do. It's either that or go sleep on the couch.

[Berkshire]

Homelessness is a major problem throughout the U.S. and Hawaii is no exception. One of the reasons for Hawaii's homeless population explosion is the idea of living in "Paradise" draws these people from all over the U.S. It has been reported that the welfare departments in some states have actually purchased one-way tickets for these street people to get them off their rolls. Hawaii's mild weather, generous welfare benefits and shortage of affordable housing doesn't help either.

I would never live in Honolulu, just as I would never live Bangkok. Honolulu is not Hawaii and Bangkok is not Thailand. I have always lived in a rural community and that is the lifestyle that suits me. Although my wife is a native of Bangkok she also likes where we live. And we don't live in a ghetto.

No matter where you live there are always trade offs. While not wealthy, I have never had more than one job at a time. Yet I have managed to provide for my family and am now enjoying my retirement. I owned my own business for over 35 years and learned to deal with the bureaucracy without ever paying a single bribe.

Although I rarely eat at McDonalds, I never had that experience. Gas stations, yes.

I can't say anything bad about Hawaii. Love the place. But simply put, it's just an expensive place to live. Everything from food, to entertainment, to housing, to gas....you name it. If you don't live in Honolulu, then you must live in the sticks. Big Island? Kona is very much like Honolulu. Lahaina, Maui? Ditto. There are always trade-offs and while the city offers much more, the traffic and congestion can be overwhelming. I had considered Honolulu and Hilo one point in my life. But Thailand still wins hands-down. By the way, how are the locals treating haoles these days?

[Chunky1]

Thailand has kinder and gentler go go dancers. They like going to the Wat after work (I'm quiet religious). All and all a better class of people. They cook better too. Have you ever had an 18 year old American stripper cook for you? Dangerous experience. Of course there are exceptions.

Of course Thailand is better, because there is so much more selection and it's so much easier to fall through the cracks in Thailand and into prostitution because of the poverty and lack of government assistance. Any American 18 yo who wants to go to college is backed by the US gov to do so. Take all the money you want for schooling by Federal decree. So, when you have an 18 yo who has decided to be a stripper you know that she has all kinds of problems at the start and it's only so long before she is addicted to drugs.

Edited January 6, 2011 by Chunky1

[MJP]

Thailand has kinder and gentler go go dancers. They like going to the Wat after work (I'm quiet religious). All and all a better class of people. They cook better too. Have you ever had an 18 year old American stripper cook for you? Dangerous experience. Of course there are exceptions.

Of course Thailand is better, because there is so much more selection and it's so much easier to fall through the cracks in Thailand and into prostitution because of the poverty and lack of government assistance. Any American 18 yo who wants to go to college is backed by the US gov to do so. Take all the money you want for schooling by Federal decree. So, when you have an 18 yo who has decided to be a stripper you know that she has all kinds of problems at the start and it's only so long before she is addicted to drugs. Now take a Thai 18 yo who is a good girl who listens to Mommy and Daddy only they have decided to pimp her out.

Yup. Sadly. Although let's be clear about this, you are generally referring to the poor sub-class that exists predominantly in the depths of Issan.

In' alf cheap 'ere tho. New shocks for the truck, 2800 Baht all round, fitted. Slide rails, 2500 for the pair, again fitted.

The US by all accounts has both the best of first world living conditions and pretty much third world in many parts too, it's a big and diverse place. Yes, there is the occasional big shiny fancy thing in Thailand, but it's not widespread, mercifully some may say.

[chops]

um, try visiting detroit or pittsburgh once. it's worse than you can even imagine.

america is finished and it's dying. it's getting more corrupt. it can't fix any of it's problems because of partisan politics. and then there's the obscene wealth gap.

personally, I left new york on a one way ticket to hong kong. never want to return in my lifetime. I'm enjoying life here.

[FarangBuddha]

Good education here is expensive and for the elite. In the US, its free.

Hardly...New York, New Jersey, and most of the other north-eastern states to which you seem so attached have some of the highest property and sales taxes in the nation. They are also broke so look for taxes to keep going up in these states.

The States pretty much suck big-time and much more enjoy my lifestyle in Thailand to pretty much anything available Stateside

[FarangBuddha]

I would have to say the OP is looking at the world with some very colored and cracked glasses. I live and work in Thailand, so I obviously like the place. It has a lot to offer me. But some of the OP's comparisons with the US are pertty far off, in my opinion.

Crazy drivers in the US compared with Thailand? That is a reach. After some areas in Europe, American drivers are perhaps the most considerate and safe in the world, from my experience. Thais don't even come close.

Schooling in the US is much, much better, both for children and at the university level. While grade and high schools may not achieve the same results as in some European schools, Japan, Korea, and even China (in some areas), they really exceed that of Thailand. And the universities are second to none.

I don't know anywhere in the US where you can eat as cheaply as in Thailand. But if you want anything other than street food, the cost in Thailand is far greater than in the US, and the quality and breadth of choice not as good.

Shopping malls? My US home is in San Diego, and I find the shopping malls there pretty much interchangeable with the ones in Bangkok, and better than the ones outside of the city.

San Diego is well-known for expensive real estate, but I can buy a home there cheaper than in Bangkok, and better constructed, too.

Television, don't get me started on that. For a much, much cheaper price, I can get a huge number of good, entertaining shows, to watch on my own schedule. And my internet is cheaper, more reliable, and far faster.

I can go on, but you get my point. It is a pretty far stretch to contend that all in Thailand is better than all in the US. I thoroughly enjoy my trips back to the US, getting caught up on my favorite foods, being able to watch decent television, watching movies unavailable here, buying things not available here. And when I am in Thailand, I love getting the things I can't get in the US. It is possible to enjoy the best that both places have to offer.

Come again...you gotta be kidding...I think your glasses are not just coloured and cracked but have fallen off completely

[mca]

Universities like Thammasat and Chula are world class, compared to the University of Houston.

But surely as the cream of what Thailand has to offer you should be comparing them to Yale, Harvard or MIT.

[Heng]

A few pluses for America or at least my own town, neighborhood, and home there...

As for the ghetto theme of the thread.... the ghetto part of town is just that. The bad part of town where the ghetto dwellers themselves choose to live, work, and rarely venture out of. Much easier to get detached and never have to experience the harder side of life. No beggars, no one trying wipe your windshield for 10 Baht,... they are there, but you have to go to 'that' part of town. Here you could own a 100 million Baht property with garbage can divers riding up and down your street all day and night trying to get after your plastic and glass waste like dogs in heat, on the roads you have to go bumper to bumper and sometimes exchange paint with people who probably won't ever pay off their cars, they also use the same banks/supermarkets/gas stations/etc. as you do, clogging up the services with their hand to mouth lifestyles.

Hard to sum up all the little differences, here are a few...

-better airports, better airlines

-strangers are a whole lot friendlier

-my car there costs exactly 1/5 of what it cost here and it's otherwise identical (only a year older here)

-Whole Foods Market... also it's easy to overlook but I think there's a difference between having just 3-4 brands of whatever product and 50+ to choose from, much more variety of just about every product stateside, Luby's, Salt Lick BBQ, Threadgills,...

-Fedex actually works there.

-DirectTV and Dish and everything that can be streamed online actually works with hardly an interruption... tech is a lot more seamless, I'm sure everyone here can remember, but it's easy to forget it all if you stare at the local telephone cables too long....

-oh, and that little thing about being able to drink tap water is pretty nice too (although I still buy the bottled stuff to drink... but at least I don't have to buy it to cook/wash vegetables, etc.).

Don't get me wrong, I still spend maybe 30 days tops stateside and rarely all at once and the other 300+ days here, but it's still nice to visit my home away from home.

[Thailaw]

Good education here is expensive and for the elite. In the US, its free.

Hardly...New York, New Jersey, and most of the other north-eastern states to which you seem so attached have some of the highest property and sales taxes in the nation. They are also broke so look for taxes to keep going up in these states.

The States pretty much suck big-time and much more enjoy my lifestyle in Thailand to pretty much anything available Stateside

Yes the sales tax rates are high, but the items (food, clothing, etc) on which most lower income people spend the largest portion of their income on are sales tax exempt (at least in NY and MA, and I assume many of the others). Property tax rates are also high, which means that if you have a highly valued home (regarless of the number of children) you will pay a lot of property tax. if you live in a very modest home or rent an apartment, you won't. Your taxes are not affected by the number of children you have (at the Federal level you get a tax credit foe each child). Like-situated individuals, one with 0 kids and one with 5 will pay the same taxes if they live in the same states. Public schools for an additional child are "free". If your point is that "there is no free lunch", I agree totally. But in the north east US, the higher income families subsidize greatly the education expenses of lower income families, and people with no children subsidize the educational expenses of those that do. Pretty good deal for the guy (and his kids) making $20,000 a year, renting a 2 bedroom apartment with 3 kids. He likely pays near zero tax federal and state (except if he is a beer drinker; beer is not sales tax exempt), including sales and property tax, and his kids get a descent education if he/they want it. This is one (probably the primary) reason that foreigners to the south sneak into the US illegally, to get the "freebies" that the state and federal governments hand out to them and their children.

As for my kids, when and if they go to the US they will go to private schools which I am very willing and able to afford. The best schools from an educational, cultural and social perspective are in the north east, so that is where I would focus. I don't think that the "States pretty much suck big-time", but I do agree that life here for "mature men" is far better than what is available in the US. And I may agree with you if Obama is reelected at the end of his second term--in such case, "suck big-time" may be a gross understatement.

[MJP]

A few pluses for America or at least my own town, neighborhood, and home there...

As for the ghetto theme of the thread.... the ghetto part of town is just that. The bad part of town where the ghetto dwellers themselves choose to live, work, and rarely venture out of. Much easier to get detached and never have to experience the harder side of life. No beggars, no one trying wipe your windshield for 10 Baht,... they are there, but you have to go to 'that' part of town. Here you could own a 100 million Baht property with garbage can divers riding up and down your street all day and night trying to get after your plastic and glass waste like dogs in heat, on the roads you have to go bumper to bumper and sometimes exchange paint with people who probably won't ever pay off their cars, they also use the same banks/supermarkets/gas stations/etc. as you do, clogging up the services with their hand to mouth lifestyles.

Hard to sum up all the little differences, here are a few...

-better airports, better airlines

-strangers are a whole lot friendlier

-my car there costs exactly 1/5 of what it cost here and it's otherwise identical (only a year older here)

-Whole Foods Market... also it's easy to overlook but I think there's a difference between having just 3-4 brands of whatever product and 50+ to choose from, much more variety of just about every product stateside, Luby's, Salt Lick BBQ, Threadgills,...

-Fedex actually works there.

-DirectTV and Dish and everything that can be streamed online actually works with hardly an interruption... tech is a lot more seamless, I'm sure everyone here can remember, but it's easy to forget it all if you stare at the local telephone cables too long....

-oh, and that little thing about being able to drink tap water is pretty nice too (although I still buy the bottled stuff to drink... but at least I don't have to buy it to cook/wash vegetables, etc.).

Don't get me wrong, I still spend maybe 30 days tops stateside and rarely all at once and the other 300+ days here, but it's still nice to visit my home away from home.

Could you afford to live in the US though? I ask because retired American friends here say on their pensions (retired fire/police) they'd really struggle and would still have to work.

At least here we have the freedom to be poor.

[Ulysses G.]

I don't think that the "States pretty much suck big-time", but I do agree that life here for "mature men" is far better than what is available in the US. And I may agree with you if Obama is reelected at the end of his second term--in such case, "suck big-time" may be a gross understatement.

I very much agree with you on all three points!

[transam]

I am English and have cruised the states of the US a few times and '' l '' think it is the most fabulous place on the planet. Has something for everyone. Any climate, or any environment to choose from. Cool.

[Heng]

A few pluses for America or at least my own town, neighborhood, and home there...

As for the ghetto theme of the thread.... the ghetto part of town is just that. The bad part of town where the ghetto dwellers themselves choose to live, work, and rarely venture out of. Much easier to get detached and never have to experience the harder side of life. No beggars, no one trying wipe your windshield for 10 Baht,... they are there, but you have to go to 'that' part of town. Here you could own a 100 million Baht property with garbage can divers riding up and down your street all day and night trying to get after your plastic and glass waste like dogs in heat, on the roads you have to go bumper to bumper and sometimes exchange paint with people who probably won't ever pay off their cars, they also use the same banks/supermarkets/gas stations/etc. as you do, clogging up the services with their hand to mouth lifestyles.

Hard to sum up all the little differences, here are a few...

-better airports, better airlines

-strangers are a whole lot friendlier

-my car there costs exactly 1/5 of what it cost here and it's otherwise identical (only a year older here)

-Whole Foods Market... also it's easy to overlook but I think there's a difference between having just 3-4 brands of whatever product and 50+ to choose from, much more variety of just about every product stateside, Luby's, Salt Lick BBQ, Threadgills,...

-Fedex actually works there.

-DirectTV and Dish and everything that can be streamed online actually works with hardly an interruption... tech is a lot more seamless, I'm sure everyone here can remember, but it's easy to forget it all if you stare at the local telephone cables too long....

-oh, and that little thing about being able to drink tap water is pretty nice too (although I still buy the bottled stuff to drink... but at least I don't have to buy it to cook/wash vegetables, etc.).

Don't get me wrong, I still spend maybe 30 days tops stateside and rarely all at once and the other 300+ days here, but it's still nice to visit my home away from home.

Could you afford to live in the US though? I ask because retired American friends here say on their pensions (retired fire/police) they'd really struggle and would still have to work.

At least here we have the freedom to be poor.

Yes, not an issue. And still a potential life path after my folks pass away (same deal on my wife's side), as we have a plug and play situation home wise / school wise for the kids if they are still in school by then.... and of course one day if Thailand isn't somewhere we enjoy living.

Might not feel the same if we were based somewhere up north, but the Texas lake/hill country IMO is pretty close to paradise. Definitely wouldn't mind living there if 'heaven on earth' here goes to he11.

....Singapore if the US isn't viable by then. Will have to otherwise play it by ear....

Edited January 6, 2011 by Heng

[zydeco]

Crazy drivers in the US compared with Thailand? That is a reach. After some areas in Europe, American drivers are perhaps the most considerate and safe in the world, from my experience. Thais don't even come close.

The OP was referring to Houston. Being from Dallas, I think he has a point. In Texas, people will pull out semi-automatic weapons and shoot you dead if you anger them on the road. And if you happen to displease some mexican gang member, you might be facing even something full auto. And Texas is full of drunk mexicans, driving w/o licenses the wrong way down freeways. For all the crazy driving on Thai roads, for some reason, I remember seeing many more accidents on American roads than I ever do, here.. The one thing in your favor in the US, however, is that if you do have a serious road accident, paramedics and qualified rescue teams might give you a chance to survive. Here, in Thailand, you're a goner for sure.

[MJP]

A few pluses for America or at least my own town, neighborhood, and home there...

As for the ghetto theme of the thread.... the ghetto part of town is just that. The bad part of town where the ghetto dwellers themselves choose to live, work, and rarely venture out of. Much easier to get detached and never have to experience the harder side of life. No beggars, no one trying wipe your windshield for 10 Baht,... they are there, but you have to go to 'that' part of town. Here you could own a 100 million Baht property with garbage can divers riding up and down your street all day and night trying to get after your plastic and glass waste like dogs in heat, on the roads you have to go bumper to bumper and sometimes exchange paint with people who probably won't ever pay off their cars, they also use the same banks/supermarkets/gas stations/etc. as you do, clogging up the services with their hand to mouth lifestyles.

Hard to sum up all the little differences, here are a few...

-better airports, better airlines

-strangers are a whole lot friendlier

-my car there costs exactly 1/5 of what it cost here and it's otherwise identical (only a year older here)

-Whole Foods Market... also it's easy to overlook but I think there's a difference between having just 3-4 brands of whatever product and 50+ to choose from, much more variety of just about every product stateside, Luby's, Salt Lick BBQ, Threadgills,...

-Fedex actually works there.

-DirectTV and Dish and everything that can be streamed online actually works with hardly an interruption... tech is a lot more seamless, I'm sure everyone here can remember, but it's easy to forget it all if you stare at the local telephone cables too long....

-oh, and that little thing about being able to drink tap water is pretty nice too (although I still buy the bottled stuff to drink... but at least I don't have to buy it to cook/wash vegetables, etc.).

Don't get me wrong, I still spend maybe 30 days tops stateside and rarely all at once and the other 300+ days here, but it's still nice to visit my home away from home.

Could you afford to live in the US though? I ask because retired American friends here say on their pensions (retired fire/police) they'd really struggle and would still have to work.

At least here we have the freedom to be poor.

Yes, not an issue. And still a potential life path after my folks pass away (same deal on my wife's side), as we have a plug and play situation home wise / school wise for the kids if they are still in school by then.... and of course one day if Thailand isn't somewhere we enjoy living.

Might not feel the same if we were based somewhere up north, but the Texas lake/hill country IMO is pretty close to paradise. Definitely wouldn't mind living there if 'heaven on earth' here goes to he11.

....Singapore if the US isn't viable by then. Will have to otherwise play it by ear....

The biggest issue for my American friends out here is tax. Their pensions would be eaten up by it. Mainly property taxes, which in some states are truly eye watering. Then the state taxes and federal . . . well a intense list of tax demands from socialist parasites with social programs to effectively corrupt bankers.

The main reason they were happy to be here was they expect property taxes to increase massively in states with low rates, as they try and bailout neighbouring bankrupt states, they really couldn't see the US making it past 2013 without outright default. Inflation in food and energy there was also a major concern.

These were flag waving patriots of old, but they've said they really want nothing to do with the place.

For those of us who have been established here for many years, with homes and all the personal and family infrastructure completed whilst the Baht was very weak, to be honest this is just bliss. A 500 Baht a month electric bill, 300 Baht to fill the gas bottle maybe twice a year at most, no property taxes, water bill at around 150 Baht during dry season(!!!), fresh chicken breast at 70 Baht a kilo . . . the list is long and boring but quite honestly essential right now.

Okay life can be a bit slow, but compare that lot to the cost of going back to the UK, forget it. Living costs in some of our Western homelands are now inflating at a brutal pace. It's GBP1.36 a litre now for diesel in the UK, over double the price of Thailand.

We often forget here that we're benefiting from the Thai's sufficiency economy, if you just live a fairly basic lifestyle. I had Kow Pad Cai earlier, 25 Baht!!! . . . and it was very nice.

. . . I rambling, sorry.

[Heng]

Crazy drivers in the US compared with Thailand? That is a reach. After some areas in Europe, American drivers are perhaps the most considerate and safe in the world, from my experience. Thais don't even come close.

The OP was referring to Houston. Being from Dallas, I think he has a point. In Texas, people will pull out semi-automatic weapons and shoot you dead if you anger them on the road. And if you happen to displease some mexican gang member, you might be facing even something full auto. And Texas is full of drunk mexicans, driving w/o licenses the wrong way down freeways. For all the crazy driving on Thai roads, for some reason, I remember seeing many more accidents on American roads than I ever do, here.. The one thing in your favor in the US, however, is that if you do have a serious road accident, paramedics and qualified rescue teams might give you a chance to survive. Here, in Thailand, you're a goner for sure.

The description certainly fits in certain parts of town. Not so sure about the highways though. In Dallas, it doesn't sound like a description of say Highland Park, or in Houston of Spring Branch. In Austin, we don't have anything like the above description in Westlake. I wouldn't feel that the nastier sides of life here are representative of any particular city or country either. It's possibly to live a cut above here or in any major metropolis back home in the US. It's all relative... if 'home' is the equivalent of South Central LA then it's hard not to find 'somewhere else' more appealing.

[Hawaiian]

Berkshire'

I can't say anything bad about Hawaii. Love the place. But simply put, it's just an expensive place to live. Everything from food, to entertainment, to housing, to gas....you name it. If you don't live in Honolulu, then you must live in the sticks. Big Island? Kona is very much like Honolulu. Lahaina, Maui? Ditto. There are always trade-offs and while the city offers much more, the traffic and congestion can be overwhelming. I had considered Honolulu and Hilo one point in my life. But Thailand still wins hands-down. By the way, how are the locals treating haoles these days?

The mainland haoles are buying up everything in sight and driving up prices. Kona and Lahaina have been transformed into gated communities cloned much like those in Southern Cal. We live just outside Hawaii Volcanoes National Park where most of the haoles have blended in and are an asset to the community. They have joined with the locals in developing a community center which offers all sorts of activities for everyone including the Thai women who sell their food and buy their vegetables at the farmer's market.

During the winter months when the temperature dips down into the 40's and 50's is when we go to Thailand. I had intentions of living in Thailand until they started screwing around with the immigration rules. At my age I need a more stable environment.

[appropriate]

Good education here is expensive and for the elite. In the US, its free.

Should they not be massacred by M1 assault riffles mid-geography lesson.

[Heng]

The main reason they were happy to be here was they expect property taxes to increase massively in states with low rates, as they try and bailout neighbouring bankrupt states, they really couldn't see the US making it past 2013 without outright default.

We often forget here that we're benefiting from the Thai's sufficiency economy, if you just live a fairly basic lifestyle. I had Kow Pad Cai earlier, 25 Baht!!! . . . and it was very nice.

I think you'll still find millions living 'sufficiency economy' type lives in the US as well and will continue to do so for a long time. It doesn't have to mean growing your own vegetables. It means getting a v-6 engine instead of a v-8 or v-12, of owning 2-3 modest homes paid off instead of paying down mortgages on 4, etc. As for the taxes... state and local anyway, I think you get what you pay for. It's very easy to see where the better schools and most of the 'brighter minds' come from.... where folks are willing to shoulder the heavier tax burdens. Not saying the system is great... it's leaky and old, but in the end, the results are still pretty liveable -and really, most people living in the higher tax areas could easily jump ship, but most don't, at least not permanently in the 'burn your bridges' style.

[Heng]

In the US, its free.

For the renters perhaps, but the landlord and everyone else in the neighborhood (and all of their kids) paying property taxes probably wouldn't agree.

[zydeco]

Crazy drivers in the US compared with Thailand? That is a reach. After some areas in Europe, American drivers are perhaps the most considerate and safe in the world, from my experience. Thais don't even come close.

The OP was referring to Houston. Being from Dallas, I think he has a point. In Texas, people will pull out semi-automatic weapons and shoot you dead if you anger them on the road. And if you happen to displease some mexican gang member, you might be facing even something full auto. And Texas is full of drunk mexicans, driving w/o licenses the wrong way down freeways. For all the crazy driving on Thai roads, for some reason, I remember seeing many more accidents on American roads than I ever do, here.. The one thing in your favor in the US, however, is that if you do have a serious road accident, paramedics and qualified rescue teams might give you a chance to survive. Here, in Thailand, you're a goner for sure.

The description certainly fits in certain parts of town. Not so sure about the highways though. In Dallas, it doesn't sound like a description of say Highland Park, or in Houston of Spring Branch. In Austin, we don't have anything like the above description in Westlake.

Two things to think about. One of the features of the Mexodus is that the new arrivals are not settling in one specific area of town. They have pockets everywhere, including the suburbs. Highland Park (and University Park) are flyspecks on the map and in reality. The only thing that truly saves Highland Park is that it is not part of Dallas, it's just surrounded by it. Item number two: in Dallas, at least, it doesn't matter if you don't move into the ghetto, because federal judges, the city housing authority, and Section 8 housing has it fixed where the ghetto is coming to you, no matter where you are. See, for example, the North Dallas corridor, which resettled ghetto dwellers into once exclusive neighborhoods that have, as a result, become shooting galleries for gang members. What a comparison my little mooban is to all that, as I sit here and the markets, restaurants, and EVEN THE DOGS are quiet tonight and the only sound I hear is the nearby traffic on the Borommaratchachonnani.

Edited January 6, 2011 by zydeco

[FarangBuddha]

Good education here is expensive and for the elite. In the US, its free.

Hardly...New York, New Jersey, and most of the other north-eastern states to which you seem so attached have some of the highest property and sales taxes in the nation. They are also broke so look for taxes to keep going up in these states.

The States pretty much suck big-time and much more enjoy my lifestyle in Thailand to pretty much anything available Stateside

Yes the sales tax rates are high, but the items (food, clothing, etc) on which most lower income people spend the largest portion of their income on are sales tax exempt (at least in NY and MA, and I assume many of the others). Property tax rates are also high, which means that if you have a highly valued home (regarless of the number of children) you will pay a lot of property tax. if you live in a very modest home or rent an apartment, you won't. Your taxes are not affected by the number of children you have (at the Federal level you get a tax credit foe each child). Like-situated individuals, one with 0 kids and one with 5 will pay the same taxes if they live in the same states. Public schools for an additional child are "free". If your point is that "there is no free lunch", I agree totally. But in the north east US, the higher income families subsidize greatly the education expenses of lower income families, and people with no children subsidize the educational expenses of those that do. Pretty good deal for the guy (and his kids) making $20,000 a year, renting a 2 bedroom apartment with 3 kids. He likely pays near zero tax federal and state (except if he is a beer drinker; beer is not sales tax exempt), including sales and property tax, and his kids get a descent education if he/they want it. This is one (probably the primary) reason that foreigners to the south sneak into the US illegally, to get the "freebies" that the state and federal governments hand out to them and their children.

As for my kids, when and if they go to the US they will go to private schools which I am very willing and able to afford. The best schools from an educational, cultural and social perspective are in the north east, so that is where I would focus. I don't think that the "States pretty much suck big-time", but I do agree that life here for "mature men" is far better than what is available in the US. And I may agree with you if Obama is reelected at the end of his second term--in such case, "suck big-time" may be a gross understatement.

From you approving comments re the "rich" subsidizing the education, and I assume other government services and transfer payments provided to the lower-classes and the poor, I would have thought you would welcome more of the Obama administration's "share the wealth" philosophy. It's attitudes like yours that form the major reason why I would never move back to the States...the wealthy pay the great majority of the income taxes, with the middle-classes kicking in a little around the margins, while the 40-50 percent in "poverty" pay nothing. However, they consume maybe 70 percent or so of the government's expenditures in welfare transfer payments, e.g., medicaid, Social Security, and the food stamp program.

So have fun paying twice for your children's private educations and the education of your non-taxpaying fellow citizens, not to mention tens of millions of illegal immigrants. I'll stick to my 7 percent VAT on goods and services I purchase in Thailand, thank you.