After 15 Years In Thailand And Going Back To The Us

[KRS1]

Houston, Tx my hometown or so I thought...After living in Thailand for the past 15 years I finally decided to come back, for how long I don't know.

After living in Thailand I'm amazed that Thailand is actually technologically more advanced than the US, the US is lagging behind big time. I spent time in Honolulu, NYC and finally here in Houston and can attest to Americas deficiency in almost every aspect...Shopping malls are old, movie theaters are old and smelly , they all smell like ass, public transport is old, roads are cracked with pot holes, and food and cigarettes have risen substantially. - and since when were you allowed to 'self checkout'...

This is probably the only thing that impressed me, until i couldn't scan myself out and was standing there like a moron without a clue. America has become so automated and lazy and its virtually impossible to speak to a live person over the phone if you have issues with your bank. A walk through the mall or a drive down the street in the wrong part of town can literally be dangerous, in Thailand no matter how ghetto it is it still feels safer than here.

I'd have to say the banking system in Thailand is light years ahead of the US, ATM's on every corner, convenient locations everywhere and secure online access that is on par with US banks. Much more courteous service than Carlos would give you at the local Wells Fargo branch around here, not too mention heaps cuter even the mean ones.

Stepping out of my house I look around and not a taxi, tuk tuk , bus, MRT, BTS or mocye in sight.....not too mention no street food or a outdoor market i can go to pick up a quick bite. My heart yearns to wave down a mocye taxi, go to the market and pick a dish for 30 baht and get it wrapped up in a plastic bag tied with a rubber band. The convenience, the price and the healthiness of getting outside walking around and eating something that was freshly killed only this morning is now a distant memory.

I tried to get drunk...but i can't ...So much Thai lager and scotch whiskey have been thrown back throughout my years in Thailand, that Buttweiser now taste like tap water that gives me heart burn and is little more than a tease, I've had to upgrade to imported lagers to get that kick i need, some local brews like Shiner Bock can get the wheels turning , but it just isn't the same as that kick you get from LEO or the newly improved Chang that no longer gives you a headache.

I miss my mocye (motorcycle) In Thailand its just a way of life, in America you have to struggle to see even 1 bike per day. A ride through the mountains when I get the yearning as when I was living in Chiang Mai is no longer on the list, I see a guy on a Ducati once at the stoplight and say to myself "if he knew, if he only knew"....Besides I'm not sure if i would even want a bike here in the US, people drive like psychos and the speed limit is now 65-70 on Interstates. I'd probably get hit by some redneck in a lifted dodge truck while freezing my nads off during winter time.

Winter time, i thought i would miss it, turns out i was wrong.

I gorged on mexican food when i came back only to realize that its not really all that bad in thailand to begin with, if people in thailand would start to use the right tortillas to make enchiladas it would be 90% similar.But I have to admit the food here in the US is better, kinda strange because this applies to the Thai food also, the ingredients are of a higher grade and it is good if you know where to go get it, the Thai temples in the US are the best places not the restaurants.Beef steaks here win hands down over steaks in Thailand, should I stay in the US just for the steak? It's tempting...aint nothing like a USDA prime choice cut, nevermind the aged beef, i never liked that fact that someone let mold grow on my steak before i eat it.

Well I cant think of any other reasons why I would want to stay in the US any longer than i have to, the food cost more, the beer is weak, rent and real estate is too high, wages are low, public transport sucks, people are rude, theaters smell like ass, too many cops, too many mexicans,and not enough mocye's...

Edited January 6, 2011 by KRS1

[Jingthing]

Many have noticed before that much of America has a third world feeling these days. That's not entirely uninteresting though, depending on your point of view.

[gregb]

movie theaters are old and smelly , they all smell like ass

Not to mention you can't reserve your seats in advance, and popcorn costs $10. No, when it comes to the cinema there are absolutely no redeeming qualities in the US. I'll happily watch the movies with the sex scenes carefully censored out over here rather than paying 3 times as much for a much lower quality service in the states.

Why would you want to go back there anyway? Wait until the Bernacke finishes debasing the currency and the financial reset has taken place, then it might be worth returning. Then you can show everyone how motorcycle taxis solve the last mile public transport infrastructure problem. Then you can show everyone that you don't need a $100k catering truck to make great tasting food. Then you can show everyone that plumbers are not worth $85/hour. Then you can show everyone that electrical appliances can be repaired, rather than simply thrown away.

No, it is not yet time to return to the land of the amazingly spoiled and unreasonably demanding. What a few more years. The big crash hasn't happened yet. Bide your time for a little while longer. Much like the Russian immigrants returning home after the collapse of the Soviet Union, there may be a time to go back and help pick up the pieces. But that time is not yet upon us.

[canuckamuck]

And it can only get worse.

[ukrules]

Naturally when you build things first they get old and decay before the newer copies.

For example if you compare the MRT with 'The Tube' in London there's quite a difference. Of course they started work on the London underground 150 years ago so it's no wonder it looks quite old and degraded these days.

[maccaroni man]

come on the op was in los 15yrs and went native, i am amazed his liver still works after 15yrs of bad booze, and lets be honest his choice of Houston is not the model of what the USA has to offer, it is hot, stinks, and is full of red necks with 2 first names i.e. billie bob. I have been in the los for 11yrs and have no desire to ride a motorcycle taxi, drink beer loa, or eat fresh road kill. Is America for everyone? No! Does America offer the ambitious, hard working of any race, education, sex or sexual prefrence an opportunity to see their dreams come true? Absolutly! If you have Child where would they have more opportunities to succeed? los or USA?

[JurgenG]

My gf (Thai) has to go to Los Angles every two month or so. Her opinion ? Everything is so CHEAP there !!!! But she doesn't feel safe and wouldn't live there for anything in the world

... but she wouldn't live anywhere outside of Thailand anyway so I'm not sure her opinion is very objective

[RusticCharm]

When I went back to the UK for a rare visit in the late 90's, I felt like an immigrant in my own country.

West Indians and Indians have largely adapted to the UK's way of life but I noticed a huge amount of comparatively recent immigrants that were unfriendly and incompatible with the west, noticeably from Muslim countries.

Depressing!

[Thailaw]

come on the op was in los 15yrs and went native, i am amazed his liver still works after 15yrs of bad booze, and lets be honest his choice of Houston is not the model of what the USA has to offer, it is hot, stinks, and is full of red necks with 2 first names i.e. billie bob. I have been in the los for 11yrs and have no desire to ride a motorcycle taxi, drink beer loa, or eat fresh road kill. Is America for everyone? No! Does America offer the ambitious, hard working of any race, education, sex or sexual prefrence an opportunity to see their dreams come true? Absolutly! If you have Child where would they have more opportunities to succeed? los or USA?

You are absolutely right. If you made your money in the west, Thailand is a great place to spend it. But if you are a child or have children, you can't do any better than the US to learn, develop and exploit your opportunities. Good education here is expensive and for the elite. In the US, its free. If you are a well grounded adult with a reasonable stream of income, the freedom and diversity of choices here provide a very rich and interesting lifestyle -- no "nanny state" here. If you are reckless (and not careful), this place can kill you. For me, its great. For my kids, I think that they are destined to grow up in the US (probably the northeast; the rest is uninhabitable (at least by civilized people)).

[canuckamuck]

If you have Child where would they have more opportunities to succeed? los or USA?

That depends: If they think like an American - Thailand. If they think like a Thai - America.

[JurgenG]

Good education here is expensive and for the elite. In the US, its free. If you are a well grounded adult with a reasonable stream of income, the freedom and diversity of choices here provide a very rich and interesting lifestyle -- no "nanny state" here. If you are reckless (and not careful), this place can kill you. For me, its great. For my kids, I think that they are destined to grow up in the US (probably the northeast; the rest is uninhabitable (at least by civilized people)).

Two colleagues of mine (aussie and french) made the same calculation, even if income taxes are higher back home, if you have two children or more, it's cheaper to raise them in the west. That's why most companies who hire expat pay for the kids education.

[mca]

I was truly surprised to find that the private girl's boarding school in the UK ( excellent reputation, some well known alumni etc) a Thai acquaintance of my wife sends their teenage daughter to was practically the same cost as a large number of the international schools here.

[Berkshire]

KRS1, your OP hit a nerve with me. Appreciate much your candid assessment of life in America vs. Thailand. Coming from America and visiting there every year, I can say that I agree with nearly everything you said. (although decent Mexican food CAN be had in Thailand) There's actually a lot in Thailand that is better than the west, but farangs in Thailand tend to dwell on the negatives constantly (witness TV on a daily basis). The non-stop whining about the Thai way, the driving, the face thing, the racism, the corruption, the women, etc., etc., grows tiresome, especially when you consider that the alternative (i.e., the west) is not much better and possibly worse. When some of us better adjusted folks tell these whining whackjobs to "go home if you don't like it here," it's not necessarily to tell them off, but to have them get a dose of reality. I go to America once or twice a year just to remind myself how much I love my life in Thailand.

[Hawaiian]

The OP has mentioned one of the most irritating and frustrating thing that Americans complain about every day. Automated answering phone systems. Businesses that claim they save money rarely factor in the lost business and customer dissatisfaction they cause. I wouldn't consider that progress.

The OP is also right about other so-called cost saving business practices like self checkout.

When I tried it at Home Depot I asked for help and in the end it took longer than standard checkout because the service employees didn't know what they were doing. The second time, same thing. So much for progress.

America has become a land of lazy people who expect the government to solve all their problems. We have a government that is regulating and taxing (to pay for implementing and enforcing the rules)us to death.

Even so, I would rather live here than anywhere else. If it is so bad why are we erecting fences to keep people out. As another poster mentioned, it is a land of opportunity for

people who are not lazy. Unfortunately, America's immigration laws are also letting in people that are a drain on its resources and creating a pool of homegrown terrorists.

Diversity is what makes America what it is. Diversity in culture, climate, geography, rural or urban lifestyles, food, laws (states rights) and so on. If someone finds Houston not to their liking than that's their problem. As for me, Hawaii is hard to beat.

[KRS1]

Before I got back to TX I was also in Honolulu and NYC and a brief stint in Dallas (which is worst than Houston)...and it all seems ghetto, in Hawaii you cant even go to the restroom inside of a mcdonalds without asking for the key do to all the meth heads, what happens if i have to take a dump while im outside? I will first be required to buy a piece of fried chicken before they let me in? Not to mention Hawaii has one of if not THE biggest homeless population in the US. I love Hawaii too, but its not the paradise its cracked up to be, most people have to work 2 jobs just to survive. My sister lives there.

America is so far behind it's pitiful and sad at the same time. Sure if something is built first it will age first, but even the Thai shopping malls and every establishment which gets high volume of traffic has the good sense to renovate.

I use to go to this place called Sharpstown mall, now when i go there i feel like i should be armed.

I guess i should elaborate on my view point of the Thai vs American educational system.

I went to elementary,middle and high school in Fort Bend / Sugarland one of the best school districts in the US. A brief time was spent at the University of Houston, then I got to Thailand and did a Bachelors at ABAC.

You know what? the Universities here aren't all that bad. The mathematics sure did kick my ass, maths here are definately tougher than they are in the states, and a large majority of students are definately more dedicated than their US counterparts. Prep schools like Horwang on lad Prao are great and don't cost much.

I got to know a lot of people that went to high dollar International high schools in Bangkok RAS, etc.... and i would much rather have my kids go to a good Thai school with bilingual curriculums than an international school in Bangkok, not one of these people I know that went to an International school can read or write Thai at an adult level....thats really a shame. Universities like Thammasat and Chula are world class, compared to the University of Houston.

Probably the biggest thing that is different in Thailand than in the US is that when highschool starts, you won't have to worry about "Leroy bringin' a gat to school to bust some caps in yo' dome..."

That's one thing my future kids could definately live without....

Free enterprise...in America ? nope, Thailand is definately better. In Thailand you dont need insurance to start up a company or retail store, if the customer is stupid enough to fall down in your store, than the judge knows he's uncoordinated and probably falls anywhere... Nope not in the US, everything is regulated for this and that and you have to follow so and so code in order to abide by revision something in order to comply to sell a burger. In thailand you get a bbq grill go down to lotus and invest in your nights business of selling charbroiled chicken, and you are in business as soon as you find a good street corner - free enterprise? America is just an illusion.

In America any person interested in selling a commercial name brand retail product will hardly ever be able to compete with a big chain store like Best Buy or Microcenter. What about Pantip? Anyone that can meet the much more lenient minimum order from a distributor can get into the field of business they are interested in.

and $6.50 for a pack of cigarettes? you gotta be kidding me...

Edited January 6, 2011 by KRS1

[robblok]

Just one remark.

You are comparing the best Thailand has to offer Bangkok.. with some of the worst places in the USA. I think it does depend where you are visiting. I been outside BKK a few times and its pitiful what you see there. (unless tourist area's).

[IanForbes]

Good thread, OP. It helps to put some things into perspective. Of course, I come from an area in Canada that has been rated one of the best in the world. But, that said I can easily see the good points and bad points of each country. That is why I choose to live half my life in Canada and the other half in Thailand. I would miss both if I had to live in just one.

[bonobo]

I would have to say the OP is looking at the world with some very colored and cracked glasses. I live and work in Thailand, so I obviously like the place. It has a lot to offer me. But some of the OP's comparisons with the US are pertty far off, in my opinion.

Crazy drivers in the US compared with Thailand? That is a reach. After some areas in Europe, American drivers are perhaps the most considerate and safe in the world, from my experience. Thais don't even come close.

Schooling in the US is much, much better, both for children and at the university level. While grade and high schools may not achieve the same results as in some European schools, Japan, Korea, and even China (in some areas), they really exceed that of Thailand. And the universities are second to none.

I don't know anywhere in the US where you can eat as cheaply as in Thailand. But if you want anything other than street food, the cost in Thailand is far greater than in the US, and the quality and breadth of choice not as good.

Shopping malls? My US home is in San Diego, and I find the shopping malls there pretty much interchangeable with the ones in Bangkok, and better than the ones outside of the city.

San Diego is well-known for expensive real estate, but I can buy a home there cheaper than in Bangkok, and better constructed, too.

Television, don't get me started on that. For a much, much cheaper price, I can get a huge number of good, entertaining shows, to watch on my own schedule. And my internet is cheaper, more reliable, and far faster.

I can go on, but you get my point. It is a pretty far stretch to contend that all in Thailand is better than all in the US. I thoroughly enjoy my trips back to the US, getting caught up on my favorite foods, being able to watch decent television, watching movies unavailable here, buying things not available here. And when I am in Thailand, I love getting the things I can't get in the US. It is possible to enjoy the best that both places have to offer.

[CheGuava]

I can go on, but you get my point. It is a pretty far stretch to contend that all in Thailand is better than all in the US.

heh. I totally hear you and factually you are accurate. And yet I have in the past expressed similar feelings to the OP when 'jailed' in the USA. It's actually hard to put your finger on it, and the smelliness of movie theaters doesn't really enter into it, but... 'something' is missing when you move to Farangland. Perhaps best described as just 'life'. (And 'freedom', to an extent.)

[KRS1]

So then compare the best that America has to offer and what it would take to live in that neighborhood.

Your home in San Diego which you may think is better constructed and more than likely built from a wooden frame will start to rot in 20 years. I've yet to see any modern built house in Thailand that DOES NOT use concrete, rebar and brick for the primary building materials.

My moneys on the brick house, not the house built out of sticks.

After you've been in Thailand for 15 years, you'll figure out where the good cheap eats are, keep trying you'll find them, unfortunately wine is very expensive though.

I didn't say all is better in thailand, but the majority sure is. There's a few things better in the US, but is it worth staying here for? That's what i'm trying to figure out.

I like the psychotic nature of Bangkok, never a dull moment...and the charm of Chiang Mai at ease and everyone's cool and laid back...Pattaya's not for me though.

[Loz]

As one who took to teaching after a life of corporate whoring. I have to say its like comparing apples to oranges. But then given that I came here for a major lifestyle change, that would make sense.

I have considered going back to my old ways in a western country but I think now I prefer this life. I will develop it and mold it a little further but essentially I would rather give up the "excess" that was so addictive in the west (houses, cars, business dealings, extravagant pass times) in favour of doing something more meaningful.

[mca]

As one who took to teaching after a life of corporate whoring.

Mate the other day you told me it was " Took to whoring after a life of corporate teaching. "

Get you story straight.

[Berkshire]

Crazy drivers in the US compared with Thailand? That is a reach. After some areas in Europe, American drivers are perhaps the most considerate and safe in the world, from my experience. Thais don't even come close.

I respect your opinion, bonobo, but I have to really question the soundness of your perspective. I drove in America. For a lot of years. I'm sure you've heard the term "road rage." I believe that originated in the US and I've seen some of that with my own eyes. Americans are not very patient drivers and if you do something like cut someone off, they will give you the finger or worse. The cell phone craze started to hit about the time I left and some of these horrible drivers became even worse when they're on the phone. Zig zagging all over the road, changing lanes without looking/signaling, going crazy slow, completely oblivious to all around them. And if you ride a motorcycle, forget it. You're basically invisible to the average driver. There are examples of good and bad (and ugly) for both America and Thailand, but I can argue the case that Thai drivers are just as considerate and safe as Americans....GIVEN THE CIRCUMSTANCES. I'm talking the condition of the roads, basic design, narrow roads, number of cars/motorcycles, non-functioning lights, etc. There are some bad Thai drivers, certainly. But frankly, some of the very worst drivers I've seen in Thailand are farangs.

[Rumcabal]

Free enterprise...in America ? nope, Thailand is definately better. In Thailand you dont need insurance to start up a company or retail store, if the customer is stupid enough to fall down in your store, than the judge knows he's uncoordinated and probably falls anywhere... Nope not in the US, everything is regulated for this and that and you have to follow so and so code in order to abide by revision something in order to comply to sell a burger. In thailand you get a bbq grill go down to lotus and invest in your nights business of selling charbroiled chicken, and you are in business as soon as you find a good street corner - free enterprise? America is just an illusion.

Agree 100% with this assessment. Not just in the States but throughout the west in general. Starting up a company is an increasingly more and more expensive endeavor. I once worked for a small startup in Massachusetts. There were only 3 of us but the first year cost for our corporate attorney's to 'structure' the company (I dont even know what that means) was $200,000. Red tape and regulation is strangling legitimate business in the west. Everyone credits low labor costs as the primary reason companies relocate to the East but I'm willing to bet the regulatory environment is just as important a factor in the decision making.

[Jingthing]

Due to the bad US economy and also increased xenophobia (for example the racist Arizona law) a large percentage of Mexicans have self repatriated. Please no more of the fantasy that everyone in the world wants to get into the US. It isn't true now, and it was never true.

http://www2.ocregister.com/articles/immigrants-returning-mexico-2326719-going-home

Also note, ease of class mobility (in other words the chances a poor person can become wealthy) are now significantly better in western Europe than the USA. Not to mention the gap between rich and poor in the US, which is arguably more extreme than in Thailand.

http://www.businessinsider.com/15-charts-about-wealth-and-inequality-in-america-2010-4#half-of-america-has-25-of-the-wealth-2

Edited January 6, 2011 by Jingthing

[WarpSpeed]

come on the op was in los 15yrs and went native, i am amazed his liver still works after 15yrs of bad booze, and lets be honest his choice of Houston is not the model of what the USA has to offer, it is hot, stinks, and is full of red necks with 2 first names i.e. billie bob. I have been in the los for 11yrs and have no desire to ride a motorcycle taxi, drink beer loa, or eat fresh road kill. Is America for everyone? No! Does America offer the ambitious, hard working of any race, education, sex or sexual prefrence an opportunity to see their dreams come true? Absolutly! If you have Child where would they have more opportunities to succeed? los or USA?

Ditto! And also ditto to UKRules I noticed for example that a VCR is virtually nonexistent here because they came in on the tail end of the technology and the introduction of the DVD, But some people still have Videos they'd like to view once in a while as well tape a TV show..

[grumpyoldman]

OP has started a good thread, but then, in America, there are a lot of different places.

I hail from Southern California, and go back there to visit family and friends yearly. I also have lived in Texas, have been to Houston, have a brother in Dallas and am not sure comparing Texas to Thailand is realistic. Absolutely Houston is ghetto, pickled pigs ears anybody?

Southern and Central California are alright., also a big place but the coastal cities outside of the big metropolis (LA and SD) are definitely special.

Do they have their negatives, absolutely but doesn't everywhere? Is it too expensive there? Sure, but do the jobs pay higher? Yes. Education for your kids? Much better there.

One thing I do really like about Thailand over California is tha fact you can say hi to people here in Thailand and they don't think you are a nutjob. You can say hi to a pretty female, and even if she is not interested will say hi back. In California it's an immediate"are you hitting on me you pervert"!

This last year I spent three weeks in the states, after 2.5 like the OP, I was ready to come back, I needed a noodle soup.

Cheers, GOM

[WarpSpeed]

I would have to say the OP is looking at the world with some very colored and cracked glasses. I live and work in Thailand, so I obviously like the place. It has a lot to offer me. But some of the OP's comparisons with the US are pertty far off, in my opinion.

Crazy drivers in the US compared with Thailand? That is a reach. After some areas in Europe, American drivers are perhaps the most considerate and safe in the world, from my experience. Thais don't even come close.

Schooling in the US is much, much better, both for children and at the university level. While grade and high schools may not achieve the same results as in some European schools, Japan, Korea, and even China (in some areas), they really exceed that of Thailand. And the universities are second to none.

I don't know anywhere in the US where you can eat as cheaply as in Thailand. But if you want anything other than street food, the cost in Thailand is far greater than in the US, and the quality and breadth of choice not as good.

Shopping malls? My US home is in San Diego, and I find the shopping malls there pretty much interchangeable with the ones in Bangkok, and better than the ones outside of the city.

San Diego is well-known for expensive real estate, but I can buy a home there cheaper than in Bangkok, and better constructed, too.

Television, don't get me started on that. For a much, much cheaper price, I can get a huge number of good, entertaining shows, to watch on my own schedule. And my internet is cheaper, more reliable, and far faster.

I can go on, but you get my point. It is a pretty far stretch to contend that all in Thailand is better than all in the US. I thoroughly enjoy my trips back to the US, getting caught up on my favorite foods, being able to watch decent television, watching movies unavailable here, buying things not available here. And when I am in Thailand, I love getting the things I can't get in the US. It is possible to enjoy the best that both places have to offer.

A dose of clear minded reality... Now I'm even more homesick

Edited January 6, 2011 by WarpSpeed

[Jingthing]

Yeah, I agree, the USA is a great place to shop!

[Ulysses G.]

And yet I have in the past expressed similar feelings to the OP when 'jailed' in the USA. It's actually hard to put your finger on it, and the smelliness of movie theaters doesn't really enter into it, but... 'something' is missing when you move to Farangland...

Yea, desperate females.