Many Thais Favour Use Of Cane For Unruly Youths

[webfact]

Many Thais favour use of cane for unruly youths: poll

By THE NATION ON SUNDAY

Most people favour the re-introduction of caning - allowing teachers to be able to cane students again as a punishment. But they feel it should only be used in limited circumstances and with clear conditions including size of the cane, a Suan Dusit Poll revealed yesterday.

Caning is now banned under the Ministry of Education's regulations on student punishment amended in 2005.

Some 1,476 teachers, students and parents around the country were interviewed from January 13-15 after a website published a video clip of a teacher caning students and the Students' Council called for the Education Ministry to change its rules to allow pupils to be caned.

Some 54 per cent of respondents agreed with the council's call on the grounds that youngsters would be chastened for doing wrong. But they urged that use of the cane be rational, restricted for certain offences and in supervised conditions, with a limit on the size of the cane.

But 19 per cent of respondents disagreed on grounds that it would affect kids mentally, make them scared of school or expressing opinions, and that it was violent and should not replace rational talking and other punishments.

Some 34 per cent said offences that warranted caning included drinking alcohol, smoking, gambling, and illicit romantic liaisons, while 28 per cent who said students should be caned for getting into a fist fight and 21 per cent said pupils who skipped classes should be caned.

-- The Nation 2011-01-16

[marquess]

Why not, those who can not hear must feel, that is the way society works in terms of punishment with adults, who are supposed to possess sufficient reason so as to be dissuaded from doing wrong. Yet those who are supposed to be possessed of less reasoning i.e. children, are supposed to be reasoned with, a good policy is a lot of cases but those who can't the option of canning should be allowed, spare the rod spoil the child. But it must be supervised and only for certain offences, so as to avoid the sadistic vindictiveness of some teachers.

[selftaopath]

Perhaps Thailand and others could benefit if they researched this topic. Corporal punishment has many ill effects. It is usually b/c adults i.e. parents/teachers etc do not have the cognitive ability to figure out how to aid the child/student to change behavior that a DUMB approach (hitting) is thought of and (unfortunately) used.

[Somtamnication]

Kids are canned daily at my school. The one teacher who does it, absolutely loves it. His face smiles while his M2 students get canned upto 8 times each, at morning assembly, infront of 2000 students.

My students get back hands, palm slaps to the head and back and rulers on fingers. One day my little videos will be published. As it is now, I cannot.

[JimShortz]

I'm not personally in favour of corporal punishment (and I would never want to deliver it myself), but I can see why many people are.

Having taught in the UK for many years and had, on a couple of occasions, obnoxious students refusing to follow a reasonable request and then getting in my face and saying something along the lines of "you can't touch me" I would have liked this not to have been true...

I think you have to be very careful that you don't switch the balance of power in favour of students. The obnoxious students can destroy the learning environment for the others. In a lot of western schools (particularly inner cities) this happened some time ago, and from what friends who teach in Thai schools tell me it is beginning to happen here. It would be a shame if Thai youth went the way of western youth...

Of course it's not just about the balance of power in school, it's all about society as a whole, the media, etc. BUT you do need teachers to remain as respected individuals, in a position of power (by whatever means society deems acceptable) if you want them to be in a position to instil positive values and give all students a chance to learn and reach their potential. Dis-empower teachers and emotionally immature but disruptive students can ruin it for everyone. Is that fair?

The funny thing about the current western education situation is that the students who disrupt classes and damage the education of themselves and those around them often realise when they grow up that this was stupid and they wish they had done better; and so got a better career instead of a dead-end job... How do you make them realise this when they are young and emotionally immature? Reasoning certainly works to a point, but how do you deal with the real hardcore students? Throw them out of school? Is that good for them? Hell, I don't know!

Talking about jobs and careers, I think Chris Rock says it best:

A great video for western 17/18 year olds to watch!

[Heng]

They should cane adults as well. It won't help in a lot of cases, as plenty of folks have been slowly 'caned' (or more like have had the will crushed out of them) all of their lives, but it will help as a deterrence for those who aren't yet completely jaded by the system.

[JemJem]

I am really sickened, knowing that many people favor caning

There should be NONE of this caning stuff. There should be an effective warning/punishment system instead...eg. oral warning, written warning 1, written warning 2,etc., temporary expulsion, permanent expulsion. Also, the important thing is that the acts for which these punishments are to be given (and their corresponding punishments)must be written clearly in the school regulations.

Edited January 16, 2011 by JemJem

[geriatrickid]

Not one intelligent reason is given to justify the use of a physical assaults on minors.

If the school system is incapable of managing its current assets and personnel, how then can the proposed physical assaults on children be justified? Look at some of the misfits that are employed as teachers. Should they be allowed to physically touch students? I don't think so.

The attempted restriction in the first place was intended to try and curtail some of the more violent abuses that had occurred. If a student is so far out of control so as to not be able to respond to reason, then a caning is not going to work either. A strict long term discipline regimen is required, i.e. boot camp.

[Wallaby]

They are aren't they? Fat lot of good that does.

Some young people refuse to listen to logic and just do what they want because they can get away with it without any repercussions that mean anything to them. They get suspended but that just means they spend more time with there friends. They get expelled, they don't care. They don't want to be at school, they skip school. When there they just disrupt everyone that wants to learn.

Cane some sense into them, it's the only thing that they respect.

[Buchholz]

Time for the semi-annual re-hash of this 305 post thread?

With a bit of effort, perhaps 306 can be reached this time around....

Caning video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evkQWnS3XYk

Edited January 16, 2011 by Buchholz

[ginjag]

They should cane adults as well. It won't help in a lot of cases, as plenty of folks have been slowly 'caned' (or more like have had the will crushed out of them) all of their lives, but it will help as a deterrence for those who aren't yet completely jaded by the system.

As a child in the 50s we got caned, but it wasn,t for bad behaviour really, it was for treading on rose gardens, or fighting in the playground, or talking in class. Our discipline was taught from a baby, not hardly verbal, a look from dad was enough to put fear into you. IT'S got to be taught at HOME, correction-with love, right and wrong, the black and white, the good and the evil,--I used to hear parents say if you don't behave i'll go and get a black man-or a policeman. That is not good-but in them days it worked. Where most kids get wrong is when you get non caring adults, allowing their spoilt kids to run amock

, here they call it FREE STYLE,--it happens in the u.k. ----start it at an early age--home-school- sunday school, and not forgetting aunts and uncles had a role to play. Here in general kids show no respect to parents-police-WHY-they are not given it early-so they don't know how to show it. ...........thats my twopence-worth.could be worth ten bob if they would listen. to add we had good respectable police always having time to come to our school to help.and advise. School was good. Me,Graham Taylor ,Tony Jacklin, those were the days, learn from them times, we have to go back a long way -and start again.

Edited January 16, 2011 by ginjag

[Wallaby]

+1

[jayjay0]

Well I am old enough to remember school when corporal punishment was allowed.

I am speaking from experience. Not from what a book tells me or what I think.

When I was in the seventh grade we the students did as we pleased we would argue with the teacher and defy her. She didn't believe in corporal punishment and we knew it.

In the eighth grade the teacher took one boy stood him up held on to his hair and slapped him several times. We were not in charge that year and had more time to learn.

A earlier poster said some regret there actions in later years. I am one of them. If that teacher was alive today I would look her up and try to apologize.

I am not sure about caning as the method but If I read the TV right what they are doing now is not working. You can put the most qualified teachers in the world and there will always be those who rebel.

Expel them. Why is depriving them of a education better for them than corporal punishment. What are they going to benefit from ignorance when they are grown up?

[coma]

I used to cop 6 of the best across the hands when i f##ked up at school as a youngter. Hurty hurties. Especially in the winter. Don't think it did much good. IMO physical punishment such as this is real cave man techniques.IMO . Burn me if you will.

[jayjay0]

I used to cop 6 of the best across the hands when i f##ked up at school as a youngter. Hurty hurties. Especially in the winter. Don't think it did much good. IMO physical punishment such as this is real cave man techniques.IMO . Burn me if you will.

So is cooking your food but it works.

Couldn't resist that.

Seriously what other modern techniques do we have that work. I got my hands rapped a couple of times with the ruler it smarted quite a bit. How ever the teacher still maintained control of the class and many of the students benifited by learning rather than being unruly. Point is it will stop a lot of students from conduct that prevents them from learning. (we rebels were in a very small minority most of the kids were followers) And they choose to follow kids who didn't get hurt. dam_n now I am wondering what the #^&$%@!) was wrong with me.

Even my self a born again rebel maintained a bit of control in that class. Here I am 60 years later and can honestly say it did help. But at the time I could not say that. Here I am 60 years later no pain and a very little bit more of learning.

[catwho]

Kids are canned daily at my school. The one teacher who does it, absolutely loves it. His face smiles while his M2 students get canned upto 8 times each, at morning assembly, infront of 2000 students.

My students get back hands, palm slaps to the head and back and rulers on fingers. One day my little videos will be published. As it is now, I cannot.

when i took my 9yr old daughter to school one day ,lady teacher gave about 30 girls one wack across the bum,before class.

ask daughter if she copped it ,yep she said everyone cops the cane,the school is i the country,near korat,.

i am all in favor of it,just like the coppers back in oz should be able to give you a kick up the bum,like i got and tell u to behave .

not like now,touch me i'll sue you.too many goody goodies.NOW who still smacks their kids?

cat

[jaltsc]

How many children did the Buddha cane because they were unruly? Where do these people get their philosophical guidance? This is one hypocritical society and it does nothing to hide that fact.

[saintofsilence]

Caning should never occur this is another example on misinformation that Thailand has.

Children don't need to be hit by parents or Teachers they need to be educated .

[robblok]

Im not sure where i stand on this one.. i would love to spank some cute uni girls though

From when i was younger i could remember that i got hit by my parents at the backside a few times. It never bothered me much and was not much of a deterrent. However when they took away liberties like playing with my computer or watching tv. That helped a lot better.

If i was a student and i could choose between having to copy 1000 lines while under supervision and being extra early at a school or getting a hard whack on my ass id choose the hard whack.. easier faster and quicker forgotten.

[jayjay0]

Caning should never occur this is another example on misinformation that Thailand has.

Children don't need to be hit by parents or Teachers they need to be educated .

True and part of the education process involves punishment. Even in a ideal class size the teacher would not have the time to apply Techniques that have dubious results and still teach the rest of the class. For example time out. While the kid is in time out the teacher will be trying to teach kids who are thinking about the kid in time out and maybe that would be better than to having to learn English. :jap:

There is a point where both schools of thought must merge and giver way to the other. Contrary to popular opinion people are different they are not stamped out like cookies from the same mold.

I have no proof just a belief that in the 40's and 50' when I was in school corporal punishment was legal and teen violence and disregard of others property and rights was nowhere near the size of what it is today.

I am going to presume you live in Thailand. If you want to cross a busy road you time your movements and cross it.

Back where you come from you find a crosswalk or stop light. Point is there you get punished here if you don't people wonder what is wrong with you.

[Credo]

I think a lot of people believe in caning--just not caning THEIR child.

[robblok]

Caning should never occur this is another example on misinformation that Thailand has.

Children don't need to be hit by parents or Teachers they need to be educated .

True and part of the education process involves punishment. Even in a ideal class size the teacher would not have the time to apply Techniques that have dubious results and still teach the rest of the class. For example time out. While the kid is in time out the teacher will be trying to teach kids who are thinking about the kid in time out and maybe that would be better than to having to learn English. :jap:

There is a point where both schools of thought must merge and giver way to the other. Contrary to popular opinion people are different they are not stamped out like cookies from the same mold.

I have no proof just a belief that in the 40's and 50' when I was in school corporal punishment was legal and teen violence and disregard of others property and rights was nowhere near the size of what it is today.

I am going to presume you live in Thailand. If you want to cross a busy road you time your movements and cross it.

Back where you come from you find a crosswalk or stop light. Point is there you get punished here if you don't people wonder what is wrong with you.

Just one mistake in your thinking, punishment does not mean caning. Punishment can be many things and im not so sure caning helps that much.

Sure when you were young there was a lot less violence at school.. but was that because of how society was at that time or a result of corporal punishment.

I could say in the past people died younger and they had corporal punishment.. thus .. corporal punishment causes people to die young.

I hope you get my drift.

[Thai at Heart]

I got "dapped" for letting someone copy my homework.

We got a good one hour lecture from the headmaster on various moral issues about cheating and honesty and the such. And then 6 of the best from a dunlop green flash which appeared to be size 20, that was probably more useful for water skiing than running.

Never let anyone borrow my homework again.

I can't help feeling that a cane is in and of itself quite capable of inflicting terrible damage even with a single stroke.

Edited January 16, 2011 by Thai at Heart

[mikebell]

I taught for 38 years in the UK state system. Corporal punishment was allowed and my lessons were successful - my students though I was 'inspirational.' I used the sanction sparingly. In the 70s it was taken away. Since then discipline in schools has spiralled downwards; assaults on teachers are up; exams are made easier to cope with the generally lower level of learning. Britain's society has become increasingly violent and less caring. At the same time millions of pounds are invested in extra counselling; more personal tutoring; more communication with parents; more positive and constructive reporting. All this money could be saved for the cost of second hand size 9 gym shoes + permission from UK's privately educated ministers to use these shoes.

I reckon the whole process would take ten years to get Broken Britain back on track - even allowing for slow learners.

[dcutman]

It does not surprise me that there was such favor for kids being disiplined at school, by the teachers.

I dont think the kids should be caned. I think the parents of the students should be. I believe this would have a much better effect. Maybe the parents of these students would actually have to take care of there own kids and maybe teach them some respect for others. Disipline needs to be taught at home and by parents.

[InTransit]

Get to the root cause of why the children are playing up in school. A lot of their behavioral instincts will have developed from the way they have been raised and the disipline they have been taught out of school by their parents. Cane the parents first and see if their childs bad behaviour continues,

[robblok]

I taught for 38 years in the UK state system. Corporal punishment was allowed and my lessons were successful - my students though I was 'inspirational.' I used the sanction sparingly. In the 70s it was taken away. Since then discipline in schools has spiralled downwards; assaults on teachers are up; exams are made easier to cope with the generally lower level of learning. Britain's society has become increasingly violent and less caring. At the same time millions of pounds are invested in extra counselling; more personal tutoring; more communication with parents; more positive and constructive reporting. All this money could be saved for the cost of second hand size 9 gym shoes + permission from UK's privately educated ministers to use these shoes.

I reckon the whole process would take ten years to get Broken Britain back on track - even allowing for slow learners.

CAUSALITY... wonder what you taught. Even slow learners know you cant just state it like this. I just think society as a whole has changed and what you are describing is just how it manifests itself.

I can remember that when i went to school there never was corporal punishment and on the small schools that i attended first where teachers generally cared for their pupils order was kept. Some teachers were better at it then others and it had nothing to do with force. Then i went to an other school that was much bigger, there order was not kept as much as there were too many students and teachers were unable to keep order. Partly because they never spend too much time with their students. Every term a new teacher was quite normal so the guy never could get a feel of the class as a whole and how to manage it.

I am not saying this is the answer because then i would be as simplistic as my here on the board who think that by just getting corporal punishment back all the problems will be solved.

Edited January 16, 2011 by robblok

[jayjay0]

Caning should never occur this is another example on misinformation that Thailand has.

Children don't need to be hit by parents or Teachers they need to be educated .

True and part of the education process involves punishment. Even in a ideal class size the teacher would not have the time to apply Techniques that have dubious results and still teach the rest of the class. For example time out. While the kid is in time out the teacher will be trying to teach kids who are thinking about the kid in time out and maybe that would be better than to having to learn English. :jap:

There is a point where both schools of thought must merge and giver way to the other. Contrary to popular opinion people are different they are not stamped out like cookies from the same mold.

I have no proof just a belief that in the 40's and 50' when I was in school corporal punishment was legal and teen violence and disregard of others property and rights was nowhere near the size of what it is today.

I am going to presume you live in Thailand. If you want to cross a busy road you time your movements and cross it.

Back where you come from you find a crosswalk or stop light. Point is there you get punished here if you don't people wonder what is wrong with you.

Just one mistake in your thinking, punishment does not mean caning. Punishment can be many things and im not so sure caning helps that much.

Sure when you were young there was a lot less violence at school.. but was that because of how society was at that time or a result of corporal punishment.

I could say in the past people died younger and they had corporal punishment.. thus .. corporal punishment causes people to die young.

I hope you get my drift.

You missed my drift I did mention another form of non corporal punishment. I did not mean to infer that punishment meant caning. It is just one option.

I stand firm on my belief that the two schools of thought must combine to come up with a sensible approach. All though corporal Punishment has a much better record of results it needs tempering.

No I don't get your drift unless you are saying do nothing. Corporal Punishment was a part of society they took it out and the results are not good. What makes you think that you can just take a big part of training and learning out of society and not replace it with any thing that it will make things better. Will just magically appear.

People died young as a result of inferior medical attention and bad hygiene practices. I was talking of the 40's and 50's here we are 60 years later I believe we have made some progress in those areas. Are you that desperate to defend your opinions.

Interesting thread. A lot of opinions mostly don't do it. But no one has posted a doable alternative.

[jayjay0]

It does not surprise me that there was such favor for kids being disiplined at school, by the teachers.

I dont think the kids should be caned. I think the parents of the students should be. I believe this would have a much better effect. Maybe the parents of these students would actually have to take care of there own kids and maybe teach them some respect for others. Disipline needs to be taught at home and by parents.

Well I see you approve of caning as a disciplinary measure.

Leaving that aside it is ridicules to turn children over to the direct supervision of another adult for six hours or thereabouts every day and expect them to not reinforce you.

Kids might not be the sharpest shovels in the shed but they are not that slow. Part of there learning experience comes in there curiosity and natural rebelliousness. Both very good traits with in reason.

[robblok]

Caning should never occur this is another example on misinformation that Thailand has.

Children don't need to be hit by parents or Teachers they need to be educated .

True and part of the education process involves punishment. Even in a ideal class size the teacher would not have the time to apply Techniques that have dubious results and still teach the rest of the class. For example time out. While the kid is in time out the teacher will be trying to teach kids who are thinking about the kid in time out and maybe that would be better than to having to learn English. :jap:

There is a point where both schools of thought must merge and giver way to the other. Contrary to popular opinion people are different they are not stamped out like cookies from the same mold.

I have no proof just a belief that in the 40's and 50' when I was in school corporal punishment was legal and teen violence and disregard of others property and rights was nowhere near the size of what it is today.

I am going to presume you live in Thailand. If you want to cross a busy road you time your movements and cross it.

Back where you come from you find a crosswalk or stop light. Point is there you get punished here if you don't people wonder what is wrong with you.

Just one mistake in your thinking, punishment does not mean caning. Punishment can be many things and im not so sure caning helps that much.

Sure when you were young there was a lot less violence at school.. but was that because of how society was at that time or a result of corporal punishment.

I could say in the past people died younger and they had corporal punishment.. thus .. corporal punishment causes people to die young.

I hope you get my drift.

You missed my drift I did mention another form of non corporal punishment. I did not mean to infer that punishment meant caning. It is just one option.

I stand firm on my belief that the two schools of thought must combine to come up with a sensible approach. All though corporal Punishment has a much better record of results it needs tempering.

No I don't get your drift unless you are saying do nothing. Corporal Punishment was a part of society they took it out and the results are not good. What makes you think that you can just take a big part of training and learning out of society and not replace it with any thing that it will make things better. Will just magically appear.

People died young as a result of inferior medical attention and bad hygiene practices. I was talking of the 40's and 50's here we are 60 years later I believe we have made some progress in those areas. Are you that desperate to defend your opinions.

Interesting thread. A lot of opinions mostly don't do it. But no one has posted a doable alternative.

You did not get my drift at all

I made a ridiculous remark about people dying young because of corporal punishment. To show you what causality is all about. Just because schools deteriorated when they took corporal punishment out does not mean it is the reason it happened. There is no real evidence for this just as with my remark connecting early deaths with corporal punishment. I meant just linking 2 things without any research or evidence is crazy. Obviously they did not teach you to think a lot in those days. Just ram in information instead of learning to think for yourself.

I don't believe in doing nothing, something has to be done but what remains the question. How about hiring better teachers, training teachers better. Last i read about Holland was that some teachers were really bad at calculations. How can you teach if your not smart yourself. Teaching is seen as a dead end job. Classes are too big and so are schools.