Alcoholism Is Not A Disease

[brahmburgers]

Alcoholism is many things, but is not a disease. It's a cop-out to call it a disease. Pneumonia is a disease. Alcoholism is basically someone ingesting a beverage - it's not contagious, and neither is anyone force-feeding that person.

I can feel a bit of sympathy for an alcoholic, but not much more than for someone who chooses to eat toxic dirt from the gutter. If people have these big brains and are supposed to be THE superior species, then why is it so many are so addled, they can't even keep themselves from ingesting fermented sugars? What other animals do that? True, some birds intentionally intoxicate themselves with putrid berries, ....but come on, why are so many humans so weak minded? Is it the crutch of religion?

My message to alcoholics: Find out how to get some strength within your thinking processes. Love of science and nature does it for me, maybe it can also give you strength. If you need myths like religion, then try that, though deist thinking appears to cause more harm than good in this world.

Good luck. And don't run over my son when you're driving drunk, and don't beat my daughter when you're in a drunk rage. And while you're at it, quit running insurance rates up for the rest of us who aren't weak-minded. Thanks.

[Mobi]

At the end of the day does it really matter if it is disease, an addiction or some other kind of mental aberration? The fact remains that hundreds of thousands of people throughout the world, including all Muslim countries, some of which have a total ban on alcohol are alcoholics.

It is a problem that can lead to serious medical complications and death to those who suffer from it, of this I hope, there is general agreement.

So rather than have a semantic discussion on whether or not it is a disease (which is only going to provoke many who suffer from it), why not have a meaningful discussion on what can be done to help alcoholics?

But since you raise the topic…..

Of course you are entitled to your opinion, but quite frankly I would rather believe such august organisations as the British Medical Association, the American Medical Association and other leading national medical organisations throughout the world - who have classified alcoholism as a disease for more than fifty years - rather than believe the ‘home-spun’ philosophy of someone writing on the internet who is unlikely to have barely scraped the surface of all the overwhelming medical evidence which is available to him.

If someone wrote a thread and stated that he believed that ‘cancer didn’t really exist, it is just in the mind’, would you believe him? And why not? Do you have personal knowledge that cancer is otherwise? Have you personally seen the tests that have been carried out on cancerous cells? Unlikely, but what you do, is to take the experts at their word. You assume, quite reasonably, that they are not all deliberately lying to relieve you of your hard earned money to treat a non-existent disease. You accept, without question the combined weight of established worldwide medical opinion who tells you that cancer is a disease.

So why would you believe them in the case of cancer, and not in the case of alcoholism? In the former, the medical experts are trusted guardians of our healthcare and in the latter, they are a bunch of liars, who have all gathered together to spread this massive conspiracy, just to make money out of treating people for a disease, which doesn’t really exist.

It is just in their minds….

[jdinasia]

Sorry Brahm ----

but your idea (while it has some few followers) just doesn't measure up. It would be like saying "depression isn't a disease, just pull yourself up by your bootstraps boy and get on with life."

One of the difficulties in recognizing alcoholism as a disease is it just plain doesn't seem like one. It doesn't look, sound, smell and it certainly doesn't act like a disease. To make matters worse, generally it denies it exists and resists treatment.

Alcoholism has been recognized for many years by professional medical organizations as a primary, chronic, progressive and sometimes fatal disease. The National Council on Alcoholism and Drug Dependence offers a detailed and complete definition of alcoholism, but probably the most simple way to describe it is "a mental obsession that causes a physical compulsion to drink."from http://alcoholism.about.com/cs/info2/a/aa022697.htm



1. [/url]What is alcoholism?

Alcoholism, also known as alcohol dependence, is a disease that includes the following four symptoms:

• Craving
  --A strong need, or urge, to drink.
• Loss of control
  --Not being able to stop drinking once drinking has begun.
• Physical dependence
  --Withdrawal symptoms, such as nausea, sweating, shakiness, and anxiety after stopping drinking.
• Tolerance
  --The need to drink greater amounts of alcohol to get "high."

For clinical and research purposes, formal diagnostic criteria for alcoholism also have been developed. Such criteria are included in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, Fourth Edition, published by the American Psychiatric Association, as well as in the International Classification Diseases, published by the World Health Organization. (See also "Publications,"

Alcohol Alert No. 30: Diagnostic Criteria for Alcohol Abuse and Dependence.)

2. Is alcoholism a disease?

Yes, alcoholism is a disease. The craving that an alcoholic feels for alcohol can be as strong as the need for food or water. An alcoholic will continue to drink despite serious family, health, or legal problems.

Like many other diseases, alcoholism is chronic, meaning that it lasts a person's lifetime; it usually follows a predictable course; and it has symptoms. The risk for developing alcoholism is influenced both by a person's genes and by his or her lifestyle. (See also "Publications,"

Alcohol Alert No. 30: Diagnostic Criteria for Alcohol Abuse and Dependence.)

from

So --- frankly Brahms --- the idea that alcoholism isn't a diseas ys simply generated by the conspiracy theorists that also tend to think that man hasn't landed on the moon ... and other such flat-earthers

[Mobi]

There is increasing evidence to suggest that certain people are genetically pre-disposed towards developing alcoholism in much the same way as others have a defective gene which can result in diabetes.

Apart from those who develop ‘type one’ diabetes at an early age, or even at birth by virtue of the fact that their pancreas produces no insulin, a vast majority of diabetes sufferers develop the disease as an adult. It is often triggered by ‘lifestyle’ choices, the principal one being obesity. If a person with a defective diabetes gene keeps him/herself in good physical shape and is careful with their diet, drinking and smoking habits, then there is a good chance that he will never develop diabetes.

In a similar way, if a person has a pre-disposition towards alcohol, but never takes a drink, then he will not become an alcoholic. But once he takes a drink albeit in a moderate manner, there is a high risk that over time he will become an alcoholic. Others can drink all their lives, some quite heavily and never become full blown alcoholics. There is a fine line between the heavy drinker and the alcoholic. Then heavy drinker can stop at any time he chooses, the alcoholic cannot without much help and constant support for the rest of their lives. Most never succeed.

These are accepted facts…..

[Totster]

So, Is addiction to Heroin a disease also ?

totster

[Sheryl]

Yes, addiction is a disease. It is an abnormal physiological state. Dabbling in/experimenting with heroin in the first place is not a disease, just very bad judgement, but once addicted, it is a disease.

Alcoholism is not "basically someone just ingesting a beverage" -- that is drinking. Alcoholism is a condition in which a person is incapable of moderating their ingestion of alcohol despite strong willed efforts to do so. For someone who does not have that disease, it may be hard to envision, but it is so.

There are of course people who drink too much who do not have the disease of alcoholism and are simply behaving stupidly -- college students on spring break, for example. Alcoholism is a whole other matter.

I think one of the reasons people react negatively to having alcoholism and other addictions described as a disease is the misperception that this somehow means people are not responsible for their actions. They are fully responsible, and indeed acceptance of personal responsibility is part of the path to recovery. In exercising that responsibility, though, they will need to do more than just decide to stop drinking/using, since their disease by definition means they are unable to do this through will power alone. Help of some sort is necessary, but the individual is responsible for seeking and accepting that help.

[mommysboy]

Of course it is not a disease.

And had OP left it at that instead of embarking on a rather tedious and warped monologue then we might have had a decent discussion, but there is no dealing with this sort of posting.

A proposal: close this thread! Any seconders?

[473geo]

I agree with Sheryl, the anger surrounding this topic is caused by alcoholics failing to take action to resolve the situation, using the fact that it is a disease as an excuse not to attempt a lifestyle change.

That said, is having no willpower a problem created by alcohol, or was that the case prior to drinking?

Remember the crude definition of insanity, doing the same thing again and again and expecting a different result.....so is alcoholism a disease of the mind?.......and why is that some have the ability to recover.....and others continue on a self destructive path.......what is the differing nature of the disease in these two groups?

I believe to recover you have to find an alternative lifestyle that is more important to you than drinking......is it a disease if you don't look?

Edited January 16, 2011 by 473geo

[kennalder]

Ah, alcohol. The cause of and the solution to, all of life's problems.

--Homer. (Maybe he said beer.)

[Chris Lawrence]

C'mon Brams you were drunk when you wrote this; get honest, its the first step.

But aren't you now up against the WHO; didn't they say it is a disease?

DSM 4 also defines addiction/alcohol as a medical condition?

Or doesn't disease just mean ill at ease?

Maybe you should do a study on the opposing methods for people to stop drinking and get it published.

It just helps to have knowledge on cause effect and outcome.

Anger is not a trait to back yourself as being right.

[mstribling]

Curious. What kind of persons trolls on message boards that support people who are challenged with a drinking problem, and spews some silly sh*t like that. <deleted> is wrong with you.

Disease, no disease how does this effect you at all? What was your personal motive?

Small people, I will never understand you.

[Mobi]

Of course it is not a disease.

And had OP left it at that instead of embarking on a rather tedious and warped monologue then we might have had a decent discussion, but there is no dealing with this sort of posting.

A proposal: close this thread! Any seconders?

Why? because you don't agree? So threads have to be closed because you don't like them?

Not too sure who has the rather tedious,warped monologue here....

[StreetCowboy]

Of course it is not a disease.

And had OP left it at that instead of embarking on a rather tedious and warped monologue then we might have had a decent discussion, but there is no dealing with this sort of posting.

A proposal: close this thread! Any seconders?

Why? because you don't agree? So threads have to be closed because you don't like them?

Not too sure who has the rather tedious,warped monologue here....

Oh Mobi,

It would've died in its sleep if you'd just left it.

Alzheimer's is not a whatsitsname, either,

SC

[Crushdepth]

Alcoholism is many things, but is not a disease. It's a cop-out to call it a disease.

I don't agree, it has quantifiable symptoms, pathology, etc. You can call it a disease, dependency, addiction, I don't really care. But its a real phenomenon.

Find out how to get some strength within your thinking processes.

I hope you find a way to free yourself of your ignorance some day. And I don't think much of your delusions of of superiority (strong mind? I don't think so).

If you think alcoholism is weird, I can't wait to hear your views about gambling addiction. Maybe some time you will have the misfortune for a person close to you to suffer from it. Maybe that will shock you into reality.

By the way, how many drinks did you have before you posted this crap?

[Mobi]

Oh Mobi,

It would've died in its sleep if you'd just left it.

Alzheimer's is not a whatsitsname, either,

SC

[bartender100]

What does you more harm, drinking Coke/Pepsi or beer, i think you know the answer

[StreetCowboy]

What does you more harm, drinking Coke/Pepsi or beer, i think you know the answer

I've never lost my wallet drinking pepsi, but maybe I'm not trying hard enough.

So for the sake of sobriety, I am willing to sacrifice my health to some extent.

The great thing about coke is that after four pints of it, you're sick of it ...

SC

[bartender100]

What does you more harm, drinking Coke/Pepsi or beer, i think you know the answer

I've never lost my wallet drinking pepsi, but maybe I'm not trying hard enough.

So for the sake of sobriety, I am willing to sacrifice my health to some extent.

The great thing about coke is that after four pints of it, you're sick of it ...

SC

http://www.emedexpert.com/tips/soft-drinks.shtml

There is evidence that consumption of too many soft drinks puts you under increased risk for liver cirrhosis similar to what chronic alcoholics have.

In a study published in the journal Epidemiology14, the team compared the dietary habits of 465 people with chronic kidney disease and 467 healthy people. After controlling for various factors, the team found that drinking two or more colas a day (whether artificially sweetened or regular) was linked to a twofold risk of chronic kidney disease.

Coke should have a health warning on the can

[ThaiPauly]

Whilst I appreciate the damage that soft drinks can cause, they don't normally rip families apart, cause you to lose your job, home and friends or get you thrown in prison.

So can we keep this thread alcohol related please

[ding]

Gravity is a theory. Absolutes are sometimes pretty risky. I'm not positive about it being a disease, myself. And I certainly haven't done any research subjected to peer review. So all I have is my opinion, and we all know what opinions are like!

All I know is that after 25+ years of continuous sobriety my life is wonderful. So many preconceptions have fallen away in that time that I'd have to have eyes wide shut to think that more will not drop away. So, I'm open to new facts from valid sources.

my .02

[ThaiPauly]

^Good for you.

As you say there are differing opinions as to weather alcoholism is a disease or not, and I am sure the debate will rage for many years.

[powderpuff]

Alcoholism is only a disease if you have it.

If you are not an alcoholic you have no business posting here.

Mods need to run this just like the GAY forum.

[ThaiPauly]

Alcoholism is only a disease if you have it.

If you are not an alcoholic you have no business posting here.

Mods need to run this just like the GAY forum.

Thats YOUR opinion PP.

But I will continue to moderate this one as I see fit.

Remember, there are also loved ones of alcoholics who post here, and they are as much entitled to post as you are.

So please do not make comments like the one above in future

[powderpuff]

In case you still haven't figured it out I am an alcoholic.

In my opinion it is a disease & I don't care if you bring 5,000,000 doctors in here who say it's just an excuse to duck your responsibilities - JUST LIKE POST #1.

So I have every right to post here.

Alcoholism is a disease.

Case closed.

Your smilies don't impress me.

Edited February 22, 2011 by powderpuff

[StreetCowboy]

In case you still haven't figured it out I am an alcoholic.

In my opinion it is a disease & I don't care if you bring 5,000,000 doctors in here who say it's just an excuse to duck your responsibilities - JUST LIKE POST #1.

So I have every right to post here.

Alcoholism is a disease.

Case closed.

Your smilies don't impress me.

Its really more of a privilege than a right. Discussion of moderation is in contravention of the rules that we accept when we request that privilege by joining the forum, And also a commitment to polite and civil discourse.

People who use the excuse that alcohol is a disease to duck their responsibilities probably also blame other people for their accidents when they go out without their white cane and guide dog, (assuming that they are blind as well...).

Regardless, people have a responsibility for their own behaviour, and if the only way that we can be sure to control that is to not take the first drink, then that is our responsibility, regardleess of whether we have a disease or are 'merely' appallingly lacking in self-discipline. I find myself far more disciplined when I am sober...

SC

[ThaiPauly]

In case you still haven't figured it out I am an alcoholic.

In my opinion it is a disease & I don't care if you bring 5,000,000 doctors in here who say it's just an excuse to duck your responsibilities - JUST LIKE POST #1.

So I have every right to post here.

Alcoholism is a disease.

Case closed.

Your smilies don't impress me.

Why is it my job to figure out if you are an alcoholic or not?

If you say you are...you are, I don't have to spend my time trying to figure out who is and who isn't an alcoholic.

Who said you had no right to post here?

What gives YOU the right to say that post #1 should not be published.?

You say that alcoholism IS a disease, I don't disagree with you, I'm sure you know your way arond the programme to know that there are many many varying opinions....what is it they say "Take what you want and leave the rest" Because someone has an opinion that does not co-incide with yours why do you take offence, why not ust let it go?

If you say its a disease thats fine by me, but don't forget how many people in denial don't want to admit they have a disease?

I don't care if my smilies impress you or not , and I am not going to get involved in a war of words with you.

There IS no arguement (well not from me), so just calm down

Case definatley closed, or if you persist in protesting about poster's rights then so will the thread.

[ThaiPauly]

In case you still haven't figured it out I am an alcoholic.

In my opinion it is a disease & I don't care if you bring 5,000,000 doctors in here who say it's just an excuse to duck your responsibilities - JUST LIKE POST #1.

So I have every right to post here.

Alcoholism is a disease.

Case closed.

Your smilies don't impress me.

Its really more of a privilege than a right. Discussion of moderation is in contravention of the rules that we accept when we request that privilege by joining the forum, And also a commitment to polite and civil discourse.

People who use the excuse that alcohol is a disease to duck their responsibilities probably also blame other people for their accidents when they go out without their white cane and guide dog, (assuming that they are blind as well...).

Regardless, people have a responsibility for their own behaviour, and if the only way that we can be sure to control that is to not take the first drink, then that is our responsibility, regardleess of whether we have a disease or are 'merely' appallingly lacking in self-discipline. I find myself far more disciplined when I am sober...

SC

A very level headed post

[powderpuff]

From the forum rules:

5) Not to post inflammatory messages on the forum, or attempt to disrupt discussions to upset its participants, or trolling.

Trolling can be defined as the act of purposefully antagonizing other people on the internet by posting controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

Post 1 is a troll thread.

Pauly are you an alcoholic? Thanks

Edited February 23, 2011 by powderpuff

[StreetCowboy]

From the forum rules:

5) Not to post inflammatory messages on the forum, or attempt to disrupt discussions to upset its participants, or trolling.

Trolling can be defined as the act of purposefully antagonizing other people on the internet by posting controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

Post 1 is a troll thread.

Pauly are you an alcoholic? Thanks

Personally, I don't think that the original post was written in inflammatory language, nor that it was irrelevant to a forum on alcohol abuse. Posting controversial viewpoints is not trolling, unless it is done for the purpose of antagonising others, rather than stimulating debate, so perhaps you might want to put more effort into your practice of tolerance.... One can ignore something with which one does not agree, if you think it will upset you;

I don't think that the OP posed any threat to whatever course of treatment you have accepted for your alcoholism, he was merely, in a rambling, rude and thoughtless manner, reminding us of our obligation ensure the safety of others, and highlighting the Higher Power that he has adopted to help him do it. That seemed a little contradictory to me, since his emphasis was on self-will, but who amongst us is free from paradox and confusion?

Anyway, as a troll thread, I would rate this one quite highly, as he has managed to grow a two-page thread from a single post, without having to return and stir the pot, so to speak.

SC

My apologies to Mobi - I should've let it lie...as I said myself some time back...

[ThaiPauly]

From the forum rules:

5) Not to post inflammatory messages on the forum, or attempt to disrupt discussions to upset its participants, or trolling.

Trolling can be defined as the act of purposefully antagonizing other people on the Internet by posting controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.

Post 1 is a troll thread.

Pauly are you an alcoholic? Thanks

As SC said and I agree with him this is NOT troll thread, and was started by a member of long standing who was stating his personal opinion, what part of that do you have so much trouble understanding.?

I have told you clearly that I have no argument with you or your opinion, I agree with you that it is a disease, and a nasty one at that, but you continue with this line.

As for your description of the OP's "Trolling" as SC said the thread has been running a long time and if it was a troll thread it would have been closed along time ago.

As I said in a previous post, not everyone considers alcoholism to be a disease, and they are entitled to their opinion, but since I can't seem to get this through to you I am now going to close this thread.

///CLOSED///