My Answer To Sin Sod.

[Wallaby]

Good on you, no problem with that. Just remember that for some women the pressure from their family can be unbearable, and most of the time their family comes first.

If you get a girl that is happy with your view then all well and good. If you are steadfast in your view and have no problem just getting another girl then what's the problem.

You know a thai family will, in general, expect sin sod, everyone knows the situation, up to you how you want to deal with it, either lose her or she stays.

Good luck with yours, I'm genuinely happy for you. Some good ones are hard to find.

[transam]

And why should someone who doesn't have 2 shekels to rub together be asked to look after your mother. Is that their tradition? You chose to marry a thai girl then follow their tradition. If you don't want to do that then don't be surprised if she finds someone else. If she still wants you then well done and good luck.

It's pretty much that simple.

Think you don't understand the meaning of love between two people, has nothing to do with money. When my mum and dad married back in the 1940's they were pot less, and so were the parents. You think it's OK in this day and age to sell a daughter, cos thats what sin sod is.

[thaicbr]

And why should someone who doesn't have 2 shekels to rub together be asked to look after your mother. Is that their tradition? You chose to marry a thai girl then follow their tradition. If you don't want to do that then don't be surprised if she finds someone else. If she still wants you then well done and good luck.

It's pretty much that simple.

Mate. How do YOU know they haven't got money. They are in fact looking at buying some land behind their house..So you made another mistaken Falang belief that Thai's do not have money. Some have a lot, some don't have any and like most society's there are the majority in the middle who have very comfortable lives.

I was trying to make the point that there are other people involved. I would in fact look after MY family which would consist of both my Thai and Uk family. That's what you do when you get married.

But as for paying upfront NO it's not going to happen.

Sinsod traditionally is a show of money to satisfy the parents that you can look after the daughter (and them when they get older)

[thaicbr]

Good general info here for those that are interested in sinsod from a Thai/Thai and Thai / falang perspective.

http://marrythailand...iland-dowry.php

OR a nicely amusing one about Thai/ Thai sinsod.

http://absolutelybangkok.com/sin-sod-thai-dowries-change-with-the-times-or-do-they/

Edited January 22, 2011 by thaicbr

[robblok]

Good on you, no problem with that. Just remember that for some women the pressure from their family can be unbearable, and most of the time their family comes first.

If you get a girl that is happy with your view then all well and good. If you are steadfast in your view and have no problem just getting another girl then what's the problem.

You know a thai family will, in general, expect sin sod, everyone knows the situation, up to you how you want to deal with it, either lose her or she stays.

Good luck with yours, I'm genuinely happy for you. Some good ones are hard to find.

No problems there either my wife found out the hard way her family just wanted money. So now she almost never loans them money. She works so if she loans money its hers. She lost it a few times and now she does not loan easy. When its their own money they worked hard for they tend to spend it differently then when they get it from the ATM they call their husband.

Its all about being clear from the start take it or leave it. There are plenty of girls here if you look good and have something to offer. If you don't then just pay your sin sod and be happy with it. Its all about what you want, want a young wife and your old.. pay up.. want one in your own age bracket.. usually you dont have to pay up.

[Wallaby]

And why should someone who doesn't have 2 shekels to rub together be asked to look after your mother. Is that their tradition? You chose to marry a thai girl then follow their tradition. If you don't want to do that then don't be surprised if she finds someone else. If she still wants you then well done and good luck.

It's pretty much that simple.

Think you don't understand the meaning of love between two people, has nothing to do with money. When my mum and dad married back in the 1940's they were pot less, and so were the parents. You think it's OK in this day and age to sell a daughter, cos thats what sin sod is.

Yes, my parents were pretty much broke back then too when they married. But I'm sure that if, just for the sake of it, my mother was penniless and my father was loaded then her family would not be all that chuffed if he never offered a brass razoo to her familly for assistance. I myself would feel pretty bad about my father if that was the case and he didn't offer my mothers family a slightly better life.

A sin sod is selling the daughter? You are thinking as a farang.

In some countries it is the woman who pays the man, I don't think they consider there son to be sold and I won't start to try and think as a thai, far too hard for me. I just accept it is the way a lot of them think and their tradition.

I don't like it but I understand it happens and if you have a girl that wants it as part of the marriage then up to you whether you want to be with her or not.

But if you don't believe in it or want to do it then that's a matter for you, doesn't worry me in the slightest if you won't marry a girl because of the sin sod. You'll just have a girl that doesn't want it. Simple. Those that accept it, pay it, those that don't, don't. I'm sure there are plenty to go around for all.

Edited January 22, 2011 by Wallaby

[transam]

And why should someone who doesn't have 2 shekels to rub together be asked to look after your mother. Is that their tradition? You chose to marry a thai girl then follow their tradition. If you don't want to do that then don't be surprised if she finds someone else. If she still wants you then well done and good luck.

It's pretty much that simple.

Think you don't understand the meaning of love between two people, has nothing to do with money. When my mum and dad married back in the 1940's they were pot less, and so were the parents. You think it's OK in this day and age to sell a daughter, cos thats what sin sod is.

Yes, my parents were pretty much broke back then too when they married. But I'm sure that if, just for the sake of it, my mother was penniless and my father was loaded then her family would not be all that chuffed if he never offered a brass razoo to her familly for assistance. I myself would feel pretty bad about my father if that was the case and he didn't offer my mothers family a slightly better life.

A sin sod is selling the daughter? You are thinking as a farang.

In some countries it is the woman who pays the man, I don't think they consider there son to be sold and I won't start to try and think as a thai, far too hard for me. I just accept it is the way a lot of them think and their tradition.

I don't like it but I understand it happens and if you have a girl that wants it as part of the marriage then up to you whether you want to be with her or not.

But if you don't believe in it or want to do it then that's a matter for you, doesn't worry me in the slightest if you won't marry a girl because of the sin sod. You'll just have a girl that doesn't want it. Simple. Those that accept it, pay it, those that don't, don't. I'm sure there are plenty to go around for all.

But you must understand that the sin sod thing is history, unless you marry into a poor waaaaaay behind family that lives in the past. Everything moves on, .

When a farang '' millionaire '' is involved then, miraculously it comes into play.

I have had people cuing up for free beer, pay THEIR hospital bills cos l am a '' millionaire '', don't see them now, why.

[mstribling]

Lot of objections on here about the sin sod? Mine was 60,000. I paid it because it made my then fiancé feel special.

[pjclark1]

Most western men marry a Thai girl because of her tradition of service to her husband.

But you then don't like the tradition of sinsot, nothing like a picky foreigner.

I prefer my woman to serve me (as is tradition)

I am quite happy to donate a bit of cash for the service.

Marrying a much older man is also Thai tradition.

Edited January 22, 2011 by pjclark1

[KRS1]

If the rest of the male Thai population is paying sinsod, what makes farangs think they don't have to pay it?

[craigt3365]

Ok, enough with the name calling of other members. It's OK to discuss you personal opinion, but not to flame other members for theirs. One warning given.

In using Thai Visa I agree:

1) To respect fellow members.

4) Not to flame fellow members.

Flaming will not be tolerated. 'Flaming' is defined as posting or responding to a message in a way clearly intended to incite useless arguments, to launch personal attacks, to insult, or to be hateful towards other members. This includes useless criticism, name-calling, swearing and any other comments meant to incite anger.

[lahgon29]

Depends who you are marry I guess.

Marrying a hill billy farm girl = Giving the money and never seeing it again from the parents.

Marrying the daughter of a middle class family (or above) = Giving the money and seeing it returned 'in kind' (and then probably some) the very next day.

I struggle to see why there is all this fuss about Sin Sod....you make your bed, you lie in it.

Where would see a 4m baht property in Oz? Must be a shack in Birdsville!

[prakhonchai nick]

Depends who you are marry I guess.

Marrying a hill billy farm girl = Giving the money and never seeing it again from the parents.

Marrying the daughter of a middle class family (or above) = Giving the money and seeing it returned 'in kind' (and then probably some) the very next day.

I struggle to see why there is all this fuss about Sin Sod....you make your bed, you lie in it.

Most likely you will lie in it alone unless you pay sin sod!

[Geekfreaklover]

Sin Sod is the families polite way of saying that they don't like you.

If you can demonstrate that the family will benefit finanacially or emotionally in other ways then you should not need to pay.

Any marriage that begins on a financial settlement will end on a financial settlement.

Refuse, and see what happens. Either outcome will be to your credit.

[Derifo]

I've been through all this in my on mind over and over again in the last few years. Let me explain the place I have got to now.

When my GF and I first met, we didn't really talk about marriage until years later, she knew from the start I had a natural aversion to marriage having seen every family member back in the UK end up with nothing but problems due to failed marriages.

After being together for around a year, she fell pregnant, and nine months later my Son was born. I was 40 years old at that stage, and had been a free agent all my life. She was 34 and was enjoying the lifestyle my permanent holiday status gave us, so the arrival of a child was an event which changed things in the extreme.

I would like to say that I managed to transition from eligible bachelor to committed father without mishap. However, I did have problems adjusting my life to the responsibility of taking care of a child. As I have mentioned, I had remained free of any kind of commitment for 40 years, and had enjoyed a life travelling the globe and residing where I wished when I wished, and I found the weight of this new responsibility uncomfortable, I felt imprisoned. My GF had no such problems, she was extremely happy, this just annoyed me more!

A year later and the problems were (mostly) behind me, and I had adjusted to the idea of being a full-time father, and we began to speak about marriage. At this stage Sin Sod was spoken about. I quite firmly told both my GF and her parents that although I would be willing to pay Sin Sod as part of the tradition of a Thai wedding, I would not be giving them a truck load of cash, as in my mind my Son was now the most important factor, providing for him and his future.

At first I could tell they thought I was only joking, and that I would come around in the end. Luckily we never had to get to the crunch moment, I will explain why. About a year ago now, I built a small house out in the village, and came to live there full-time. I had already toured Thailand extensively during the previous years, and felt it would be nice to take a break for a while and get to know my new family. Things were great for the first few months, OK a few too many villagers were a little too fond of drinking my beer stock, but nothing too much, and I didn't begrudge a few bottles extra a week, and they were good company. After around 4 month, my business in the UK hit a tough spot, and my income was reduced drastically, and I mean drastically, I went from receiving around 60k Baht a week from the profits of the company to about 5k Baht a week.We managed at first, but then things like insurance bills started piling up unpaid, and I was seriously considering going back to the UK for the first time in five years.

During this time, my new family helped us out, they would pop round with a few beers, make sure we had enough food, all the things you would expect a family to do. After a few weeks of this, my team in the UK managed to turn the business around, and I began to receive a much better income again. We thanked the family for helping out and that wast that I figured. But something strange happened then. People stopped dropping by at meal times for some free food, people would still come to drink a beer with me but more often than not they would bring a bottle of beer with them, overall they stopped treating me like a never ending source of cash. When I spoke to my GF about this she laughed, and told me her father had said he didn't know that farang could run out of money.

Now things are pretty cool, and the funny thing is that this short episode has changed the view of a lot of the village people here. My GF came home last week with a big grin on her face, clearly thinking something was highly amusing. When I asked her what it as she explained to me that one of the old ladies who sits in the small grocery shop all day drinking lao kao, was boasting that her daughter had a new boyfriend who was a farang, and that he was sending her (the mother) 20k Baht a month, each of her children 20k Baht a month (there are 3), and the GF her self 50k Baht a month, so that's a total of 110k Baht a month. One of our neighbours had openly called her a drunk old liar, and to show him the bank books to follow up her claims, as she clearly had no idea of exactly how much money farangs make when they are at home working. I found this amusing myself, sure there are people back home who could afford to send $3000 every month, but not very many, and I figure anyone who could afford $3000 a month would be bright enough not to!

I digress, I was talking about SIn Sod I apologise I got sidetracked

Anyway, the current situation is that Papa says just throw him about 30k Baht, but he'll pay that towards the part anyway, so pretty much zero Sin Sod. How did I get to this point? By being honest, I didn't hide anything from my new family, and they responded by showing an impressive amount of consideration.

You're lucky to have inlaws that understand. Mine do not and they get angry each time I can't handout because they think it's their birth right to receive from me. It's a hundred grand for sin sod or nothing.

[robblok]

You're lucky to have inlaws that understand. Mine do not and they get angry each time I can't handout because they think it's their birth right to receive from me. It's a hundred grand for sin sod or nothing.

Do you really want to stay with people like that ? Remember your gf will always have a family its a package deal. If you think its bad now when you hit a rough spot with your gf it will look even worse.

[transam]

Sin Sod is the families polite way of saying that they don't like you.

If you can demonstrate that the family will benefit finanacially or emotionally in other ways then you should not need to pay.

Any marriage that begins on a financial settlement will end on a financial settlement.

Refuse, and see what happens. Either outcome will be to your credit.

Yes, l agree with that. If a farang has handed over sin sod an then come on hard times, how many Thai families would come to the farang rescue, l don't mean well off families, l am talking about the ordinary Thai family. Count it on one hand.

[a10ams]

Another cheapskate trying to wangle out of thousands of years of tradition.

Pay up!

[horsewell]

It really depends on the situation of the people that you are marrying as much as your situation. Every Thai person has their own take on Sinsot. and if you haven't read "A Case Against Sinsot" on Stickman's web site (Google it) then you should, as it is eye opening. Even if you choose to pay or not to pay you should at least know the complete cultural significance of what you are doing.

You will see that by paying or not paying you will probably been in the same light depending on the family. Thai people rarely marry out of their on social level and that would mean that the sinsot for a farmer in isan will be a lot less than the sinsot paid by an office worker in Bangkok. You need to have an understanding of the culture and the family before negotiating something like this. Know where your girlfriend stands and how that relates to her parents. If you make a stand, can't articulate it eloquently enough, and she doesn't agree with you, you have probably just lost the relationship.

I recently read that Thailand's marriage rate (registered marriages) is in decline as the divorce rate is increasing.

[transam]

Another cheapskate trying to wangle out of thousands of years of tradition.

Pay up!

You sound like someone who has coughed up and .....................................is still coughing up. Many like you, met lot's.

Carry one if your happy.

[thaicbr]

Another cheapskate trying to wangle out of thousands of years of tradition.

Pay up!

Is that like Thai culture..... and the Thai national dance the Ram Wong.. you would think THAT would be several 100 years old..

NO it was designed in 1932. Because the dictator/ head of state at the time decided that Thailand had no culture/ forgotten it's culture. So thats when A LOT of Thai culture happened.. So when did sinsod start and how did it start?

[TheGhostWithin]

Another cheapskate trying to wangle out of thousands of years of tradition.

Pay up!

Is that like Thai culture..... and the Thai national dance the Ram Wong.. you would think THAT would be several 100 years old..

NO it was designed in 1932. Because the dictator/ head of state at the time decided that Thailand had no culture/ forgotten it's culture. So thats when A LOT of Thai culture happened.. So when did sinsod start and how did it start?

Is it possible? 1932? ha ha.

Almost every girl that I ever joked with about it, seemed to think 1 million. Some of those normal girls, some of those bar girls a few years ago when I frequented those kinds of establishments. 1 million baht is an insane amount.. I am 25 years old and 1 million is about 6 months of my salary before expenses and before tax. Im happy to pay a sin sod, but when it begins to infringe on the intention (proof that I can look after their daughter) it becomes too much. Completely understand the paying based on what you get type deal.. my partner has a university degree and works hard.. I would much rather have her than some lazy bar girl who thinks all problems will be solved when she opens her legs and if they arent all she has to do is open her mouth. I feel sad for some guys I know, who have ex bar girl wives, some of those girls are great and lovely but some still behave like bar girls 5-10+ years down the track.

I have not delved into the sin sod side of things with my partners family yet, and it is not something I am particularly looking forward to - probably one of the low point attractions of having a Thai partner. Not just because of the potentially insane financial cost, but that I come from a traditionally British styled family and my parents would see it as me having a mail order bride type agreement. We shall cross that bridge when we get there, I guess.

Edited January 24, 2011 by TheGhostWithin

[Samuian]

I would just stop after telling them that it is not acceptable in your culture, and forget the part where you lecture them on theirs if you want any hope of it being accepted.

Sorry, but the Dowry was very well long part of "our culture"!

wiki:

Originally, the purpose of a dowry was to provide "seed money" or property for the establishment of a new household, to help a husband feed and protect his family, and to give the wife and children some support if he were to die.[2] A husband thus had certain property rights in his wife's dowry. In addition, the wife might bring to the marriage property of her own, which was not included in the dowry and which was, as a result, hers alone. This property was "beyond the dowry" (Greek: parapherna, the root of paraphernalia) and was known as paraphernal property or extra-dotal property.

Even in the oldest available records, such as the Code of Hammurabi, the dowry is described as an already-existing custom. Regulations surrounding the custom include: the wife being entitled to her dowry at her husband's death as part of her dower, her dowry being inheritable only by her own children, not by her husband's children by other women, and a woman not being entitled to a (subsequent) inheritance if her father had provided her dowry in marriage. If a woman died without sons, her husband had to refund the dowry but could deduct the value of the bride price; the dowry would normally have been the larger of the sums.[4]

One of the basic functions of a dowry has been to serve as a form of protection for the wife against the possibility of ill treatment by her husband and his family.[citation needed] In other words, the dowry provides an incentive to the husband not to harm his wife.

In Victorian England, dowries were seen among the upper class as an early payment of the daughter's inheritance. Only daughters who had not received their dowries were entitled to part of the estate when their parents died. If a couple died without children, the woman's dowry was returned to her family

The basic idea behind this does make sense, especially if one considers that in those day, like still in India, Pakistan etc. the marriage is not based on "heart & love"....

Source:

Edited January 24, 2011 by Samuian

[mstribling]

Another cheapskate trying to wangle out of thousands of years of tradition.

Pay up!

Is that like Thai culture..... and the Thai national dance the Ram Wong.. you would think THAT would be several 100 years old..

NO it was designed in 1932. Because the dictator/ head of state at the time decided that Thailand had no culture/ forgotten it's culture. So thats when A LOT of Thai culture happened.. So when did sinsod start and how did it start?

Is it possible? 1932? ha ha.

Almost every girl that I ever joked with about it, seemed to think 1 million. Some of those normal girls, some of those bar girls a few years ago when I frequented those kinds of establishments. 1 million baht is an insane amount.. I am 25 years old and 1 million is about 6 months of my salary before expenses and before tax. Im happy to pay a sin sod, but when it begins to infringe on the intention (proof that I can look after their daughter) it becomes too much. Completely understand the paying based on what you get type deal.. my partner has a university degree and works hard.. I would much rather have her than some lazy bar girl who thinks all problems will be solved when she opens her legs and if they arent all she has to do is open her mouth. I feel sad for some guys I know, who have ex bar girl wives, some of those girls are great and lovely but some still behave like bar girls 5-10+ years down the track.

I have not delved into the sin sod side of things with my partners family yet, and it is not something I am particularly looking forward to - probably one of the low point attractions of having a Thai partner. Not just because of the potentially insane financial cost, but that I come from a traditionally British styled family and my parents would see it as me having a mail order bride type agreement. We shall cross that bridge when we get there, I guess.

How would you have them act?

[Straight8]

Another cheapskate trying to wangle out of thousands of years of tradition.

Pay up!

You sound like someone who has coughed up and .....................................is still coughing up. Many like you, met lot's.

Carry one if your happy.

Classic

[louse1953]

In most western cultures it cost nothing to marry them< but after a while it costs everything to get rid of them.

A good friend recently paid approx 1.5 mil in cultral sin sot payment, on the wedding day he was presented with a house valued at over 4 mill buy the parents.

Before everyone assumes its all in her name it was property in Australia that they now both own.

Can't get much in Oz for 4 mill.

[mstribling]

I've got two step daughters. I'm setting the bar at 1mil each. It keeps the neighbor boys away. Paid 60000 for mom so I will net a bit over 1.9 mil.

Sounds like a reasonable tradition from where I'm setting.

[kropotkin]

YES sin sot IS a thai tradition.

BUT it is an outdated, backward tradition.

CHOOSE: educate uneducated people, or let uneducated people dis-educate you.

what more can be said about the subject?

I'm sure practically the entire nation of Thailand will be thrilled to hear that they're uneducated.

Please accept my appoligies.

Thailand is a VERY educated nation, with a wonderfull education system.

That is why so many uneducated farang live in thailand on a permanent Education Visa.

[Tokay]

Buy the gold, do the pony show, and make it clear they are to return it beforehand. There is no face lost this way and everyone wins.

I know a lot of guys who've done it like this with no problems. If they disagree, you may want to rethink getting attached to that family.

[transam]

I laugh now but l bought the MIL a nice gold chain and Buddha. In no time it was sold to fund the in house brothers drinking habit.