I consider this forum to be a big enough waste of time, but thanks for the invite.

By the way, I omitted a couple of important words in my above post: does not, as in:

... If you are going to argue that immediate response and evacuation were not the federal government's primary responsibility, or that the welfare of the populace in an emergency situation does not supercede political notions of individual responsibility, then please explain to me how you rationalize the government's current activity in Iraq? Short answer: you can't, unless you admit a major contradiction, or actually start naming some bare non-partisan facts.

In my next life I will be a better editor.

Boon Mee , shouldn't you have posted that in TM's Kartina Cartoon Thread?

Political Cartoons illustrating the NeoconservativeRepublicanBushfollowerPartisian viewpoint is rather sorely underrepresented there ( as well as everywhere else ), don't you think?...

Boon Mee , shouldn't you have posted that in TM's Kartina Cartoon Thread?

Political Cartoons  illustrating the NeoconservativeRepublicanBushfollowerPartisian viewpoint is rather sorely underrepresented there ( as well as everywhere else    ), don't you think?... 

Oops, my mistake - anyhow, thought the following is quite appropriate:

The real story is that the mainstream media rioted.

They used the storm and its attendant sorrows to continue their endless attack on George W. Bush. Wildly inflated stories about the number of dead and missing, totally made up old wives' tales of racism, breathless accounts of Bush neglect that are utterly devoid of truth and of historical context -- this is what the mainstream media gave us. The use of floating corpses, of horror stories of plagues, the sad faces of refugees, the long-faced phony accusations of intentional neglect and racism -- anything is grist for the media's endless attempts to undermine the electorate's choice last November. It is sad, but true that the media will use even the most heart breaking truths -- and then add total inventions -- to try to weaken and then evict from office a man who has done nothing wrong, but has instead turned himself inside out to help the real victims. - "More on Katrina By Ben Stein "

Why doesn't Rupert Murdoch do something about it?

Why doesn't Rupert Murdoch do something about it?

Revenue, pure & simple although his media empire does provide an alternative to the editorial pages of the NYT and the BeeB.

In the end, the Truth shall out.

may have been said - too slow to go and read all the posts ....

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Greater_Things/message/477

Katrina Corruption Watch

Here is the quote of the week from Louisiana’s Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness, referring to $60 million that was mis-spent and/or unaccounted for long before Katrina struck ....

Mark Smith, a spokesman for the Louisiana emergency office, said the agency had responded to calls for reform, and that “we now have the policy and personnel in place to ensure that past problems aren’t repeated.”

He said earlier problems were largely administrative mistakes, not due to corruption.

Correct me if I’m wrong but did he just say $60 million went missing because of “administrative mistakes”? There’s more ....

For instance, a Nov. 30, 2004, report by Tonda L. Hadley, a director in the Denton field office, examined $40.5 million sent to the Louisiana agency, mostly for the Hazard Mitigation program. The report found that the state’s emergency office did not have receipts to account for 97% of the $15.4 million it had awarded to subcontractors on 19 major projects. The report also said the Louisiana agency had misspent $617,787 between May 2000 and September 2003.

Questionable expenditures identified by the inspector general included $2,400 for sod installation, several thousand dollars for a trip to Germany by the deputy director, $1,071 for curtains, and $595 for an L.L. Bean parka and briefcase. The inspector general also challenged unspecified spending for camera equipment, professional dues and a 2002 Ford Crown Victoria.

The day before the report was issued, the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Western District of Louisiana obtained an indictment against Michael L. Brown, deputy director of the Louisiana office of emergency preparedness. (Brown is no relation to former FEMA director Michael D. Brown who resigned this week.) Louisiana’s deputy director oversaw the state’s Hazard Mitigation program.

Brown was charged with conspiring to obstruct the inspector general’s investigation and for making a false statement to a federal investigator. Michael C. Appe, another senior state agency official, also was charged with obstructing the audit. Months earlier, Appe had been appointed as head of a “surge team” to review projects funded with FEMA money. The team’s mission was to help spot abuses. Both Appe and Brown hold the rank of colonel for their roles in overseeing elements of the state National Guard.

Appe was arrested in Baton Rouge last November, as was Daniel J. Falanga, the state agency’s flood-mitigation officer. Falanga was accused of committing perjury before a grand jury investigating misuse of FEMA funds. All three men have pleaded not guilty to the charges and deny wrongdoing, according to their lawyers. Trial dates remain uncertain because the hurricane disrupted court schedules. According to the indictment, Brown and Appe conspired in 2000 to use $175,000 in FEMA funds to cover a shortfall in a related agency’s budget. Later, when the inspector general began investigating the agency’s use of FEMA money, the two men conspired to create a fake, backdated memo to cover up the earlier diversion of funds, the indictment says.

State agency spokesman Smith said Brown had traveled to Germany, but to attend a conference. He declined to answer questions about alleged improper spending, citing the pending trial. Smith said at the time, state officials believed the trip to Germany was a proper expenditure. Brown’s lawyer, Elton Richey, said his client tried to spend federal disaster funds wisely despite job turnover and confusion between state agency officials and FEMA overseers. He said FEMA kept changing the rules. Marty Stroud, a lawyer who represents Appe and Falanga, said, “There are no charges that anyone in this case enriched himself at the expense of a federal program.”

Hadley, of the inspector general’s office, issued a second report on Feb. 25, 2005, which tracked state spending of FEMA money to pay for “extraordinary costs,” a special category used for the administration of disaster assistance programs. It said the agency had improperly spent $247,166 for items such as a car, computers, membership dues and travel to seminars. In addition to alleged misspending reported in the two audits, FEMA has asked for the return of $10.7 million allocated to a program for buying property in high-risk flood areas. Most of that money was passed on to local communities to determine which property owners would benefit.

FEMA alleged the Louisiana agency had not properly monitored expenditures, and failed to ensure that properties receiving the funds were eligible. About $2.8 million of the refund sought by FEMA went to consultant fees. Most of that money went to Aegis Innovative Systems, a Baton Rouge firm hired by many parishes to administer the flood buyout program. Aegis owners include Mark Howard, a former official at the Louisiana agency. State Sen. Reggie Dupre said it appeared that parishes employing Aegis were especially successful in winning money from the state emergency preparedness agency. “It smells like a horrible brother-in-law deal to me, “ he said in a phone interview. An Aegis attorney did not respond to a request for comment.

Bear in mind as you read the above that $200 billion is on its way to these crooks.

Link (use BugMeNot)

Katrina Corruption Watch

Here is the quote of the week from Louisiana’s Office of Homeland Security and Emergency Preparedness, referring to $60 million that was mis-spent and/or unaccounted for long before Katrina struck ....

Mark Smith, a spokesman for the Louisiana emergency office, said the agency had responded to calls for reform, and that “we now have the policy and personnel in place to ensure that past problems aren’t repeated.”

He said earlier problems were largely administrative mistakes, not due to corruption.

Correct me if I’m wrong but did he just say $60 million went missing because of “administrative mistakes”? There’s more ....

For instance, a Nov. 30, 2004, report by Tonda L. Hadley, a director in the Denton field office, examined $40.5 million sent to the Louisiana agency, mostly for the Hazard Mitigation program. The report found that the state’s emergency office did not have receipts to account for 97% of the $15.4 million it had awarded to subcontractors on 19 major projects. The report also said the Louisiana agency had misspent $617,787 between May 2000 and September 2003.

Questionable expenditures identified by the inspector general included $2,400 for sod installation, several thousand dollars for a trip to Germany by the deputy director, $1,071 for curtains, and $595 for an L.L. Bean parka and briefcase. The inspector general also challenged unspecified spending for camera equipment, professional dues and a 2002 Ford Crown Victoria.

The day before the report was issued, the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Western District of Louisiana obtained an indictment against Michael L. Brown, deputy director of the Louisiana office of emergency preparedness. (Brown is no relation to former FEMA director Michael D. Brown who resigned this week.) Louisiana’s deputy director oversaw the state’s Hazard Mitigation program.

Brown was charged with conspiring to obstruct the inspector general’s investigation and for making a false statement to a federal investigator. Michael C. Appe, another senior state agency official, also was charged with obstructing the audit. Months earlier, Appe had been appointed as head of a “surge team” to review projects funded with FEMA money. The team’s mission was to help spot abuses. Both Appe and Brown hold the rank of colonel for their roles in overseeing elements of the state National Guard.

Appe was arrested in Baton Rouge last November, as was Daniel J. Falanga, the state agency’s flood-mitigation officer. Falanga was accused of committing perjury before a grand jury investigating misuse of FEMA funds. All three men have pleaded not guilty to the charges and deny wrongdoing, according to their lawyers. Trial dates remain uncertain because the hurricane disrupted court schedules. According to the indictment, Brown and Appe conspired in 2000 to use $175,000 in FEMA funds to cover a shortfall in a related agency’s budget. Later, when the inspector general began investigating the agency’s use of FEMA money, the two men conspired to create a fake, backdated memo to cover up the earlier diversion of funds, the indictment says.

State agency spokesman Smith said Brown had traveled to Germany, but to attend a conference. He declined to answer questions about alleged improper spending, citing the pending trial. Smith said at the time, state officials believed the trip to Germany was a proper expenditure. Brown’s lawyer, Elton Richey, said his client tried to spend federal disaster funds wisely despite job turnover and confusion between state agency officials and FEMA overseers. He said FEMA kept changing the rules. Marty Stroud, a lawyer who represents Appe and Falanga, said, “There are no charges that anyone in this case enriched himself at the expense of a federal program.”

Hadley, of the inspector general’s office, issued a second report on Feb. 25, 2005, which tracked state spending of FEMA money to pay for “extraordinary costs,” a special category used for the administration of disaster assistance programs. It said the agency had improperly spent $247,166 for items such as a car, computers, membership dues and travel to seminars. In addition to alleged misspending reported in the two audits, FEMA has asked for the return of $10.7 million allocated to a program for buying property in high-risk flood areas. Most of that money was passed on to local communities to determine which property owners would benefit.

FEMA alleged the Louisiana agency had not properly monitored expenditures, and failed to ensure that properties receiving the funds were eligible. About $2.8 million of the refund sought by FEMA went to consultant fees. Most of that money went to Aegis Innovative Systems, a Baton Rouge firm hired by many parishes to administer the flood buyout program. Aegis owners include Mark Howard, a former official at the Louisiana agency. State Sen. Reggie Dupre said it appeared that parishes employing Aegis were especially successful in winning money from the state emergency preparedness agency. “It smells like a horrible brother-in-law deal to me, “ he said in a phone interview. An Aegis attorney did not respond to a request for comment.

Bear in mind as you read the above that $200 billion is on its way to these crooks.

Link (use BugMeNot)

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I guess the federal gov't is not competent enough to keep track of how the money is spent....I guess the federal gov't should just not give any aid then...to anyone...ever.

I guess the federal gov't is not competent enough to keep track of how the money is spent....I guess the federal gov't should just not give any aid then...to anyone...ever.

Not the point.

It's those terminally corrupt folks in Louisiana politics who are responsible for the disaster in NO & the disappearance of FEMA funds.

We don't see that happening in Mississippi or Alabama etc...

I guess the federal gov't is not competent enough to keep track of how the money is spent....I guess the federal gov't should just not give any aid then...to anyone...ever.

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Not the point.

It's those terminally corrupt folks in Louisiana politics who are responsible for the disaster in NO & the disappearance of FEMA funds.

We don't see that happening in Mississippi or Alabama etc...

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I thought the hurricane was responsible for the disaster. If your point is that there is alot of corruption in New Orleans..then you are stating a well know fact I think. I know that running the federal gov't is more difficult than I probably imagine but I would hope that the feds understand that the money they hand out often goes to greedy people who want to steal it. The best thing is to make a paper trail of how the money gets spent so that corruption can be tracked down and prosecuted...but the feds are probably corrupt too and its a case of the fox guarding the hen house....this happens all the time...it is not a partisan problem...it is a political problem in all gov'ts that I've ever hear about. I guess I think that you try to make everything into a partisan issue because you want to further your political goals...I prefer to try to find the truth regardless of the political ideas of those at fault because the problem of greed is everywhere left and right.

"Daddy, were we always helpless, whiny, weak sisters?"

In 1927 , a major unnamed hurricane struck the city of New Orleans. It was actually more powerful than Katrina. The scope of damage was much more severe because this particular hurricane actually hit the city. Katrina missed it by 25 miles.

The only aid from the army came in the form of loaning the city of New Orleans tents and camp stoves. Ironically, later, the army sued the city for reimbursement.

The interesting difference is the response the government gave in 1927 to those hurricane refugees, compared to the refugees of Katrina, err - perhaps "survivors" ---(sorry Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson). How much aid did the government dispense at that time? Zero, nada, not one dime. And you know how much aid the army offered? The only aid from the army came in the form of loaning the city of New Orleans tents and camp stoves. Ironically, later, the army sued the city for reimbursement. So what was the big difference here?

It was the attitude the people had towards the government at that time, compared to the attitude that Katrina's victims have. The 1927 "survivors" expected nothing from the government. 80 years ago, people understood that the government was there to "protect life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." Today, Americans expect the government to "provide life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

That's a major difference. And now, a couple weeks later, when the government failed on all three levels of local, state, and federal to provide for their needs, Americans were sorely disappointed.

This is from a pre-Katrina FEMA report:

"Jefferson Parish and the adjoining Orleans Parish ranked first and second among communities receiving repeat payments for damage claims under the National Flood Insurance Program between 1978 and 1995. These two communities alone accounted for 20 percent of the properties with repeat losses, at an average of nearly three claims per property, for a total of $308 million in claims." - New Orleans Hurricane Risk

..."State agency spokesman Smith said L. Brown had traveled to Germany, but to attend a conference. He declined to answer questions about alleged improper spending, citing the pending trial. Smith said at the time, state officials believed the trip to Germany was a proper expenditure. Brown’s lawyer, Elton Richey, said his client tried to spend federal disaster funds wisely despite job turnover and confusion between state agency officials and FEMA overseers. He said FEMA kept changing the rules. Marty Stroud, a lawyer who represents Appe and Falanga, said, 'There are no charges that anyone in this case enriched himself at the expense of a federal program.'"

Interesting story. I would like to watch how it develops from a variety of news sources, but I don't have the time to chase it down right now.

There's no doubt that there's blame on all sides, but I wouldn't go as far to say that the local officials are solely or even mostly to blame for the disasterous emergency response.

There are still a number of questions which I don't have time to pursue these days. First of all, local agencies were chaotically and abruptly shifted to the Department of Homeland Security. This is a local branch of a FEDERAL agency. It is well known that this federal agency - as well as other notorious examples such as the CIA and FBI - had serious coordination problems, to say the least.

I have a feeling there is still much to tell about the story behind this story, and it's not as simple as laying all the blame on the state, especially in regards to a FEDERAL agency.

I can't pursue this right now, but I'll try and supplement or respond in a few days.

"Daddy, were we always helpless, whiny, weak sisters?"

In 1927 , a major unnamed hurricane struck the city of New Orleans. It was actually more powerful than Katrina. The scope of damage was much more severe because this particular hurricane actually hit the city. Katrina missed it by 25 miles."

Boon Mee, you do realize that it is ridiculous to compare and think that the government's response or lack thereof in 1927 should serve as a model for today's government.

First of all, the country and most of the world were already slipping into a depression. Secondly, there was no social safety nets, and the Country was barely past a slave economy, as Jim Crow Laws were still relatively young.

How on earth can you compare tents and camping equipment as a response to today's emergencies in today's world I'm sure you would have no problem watching the poor and disadvantaged scrape the sides of garbage cans for food, but the rest of the civilized world actually learned a few things from the past; not so for neo-con libertarians it seems.

"Daddy, were we always helpless, whiny, weak sisters?"

In 1927 , a major unnamed hurricane struck the city of New Orleans. It was actually more powerful than Katrina. The scope of damage was much more severe because this particular hurricane actually hit the city. Katrina missed it by 25 miles."

Boon Mee, you do realize that it is ridiculous to compare and think that the government's response or lack thereof in 1927 should serve as a model for today's government.

First of all, the country and most of the world were already slipping into a depression.  Secondly, there was no social safety nets, and the Country was barely past a slave economy, as Jim Crow Laws were still relatively young.

How on earth can you compare tents and camping equipment as a response to today's emergencies in today's world    I'm sure you would have no problem watching the poor and disadvantaged scrape the sides of garbage cans for food, but the rest of the civilized world actually learned a few things from the past; not so for neo-con libertarians it seems.

Well, perhaps folks were more resilient in those days Kat?

Not used to the government giving them 'entitlements' as is the case today?

Don't pre-judge my position regarding apparent lack empathy for the disadvantaged by the above post. My point is sometimes you just have to think for yourself and those folks in New Orleans 9th Ward haven't been thinking for themselves since Stonewall Jackson was President.

"Daddy, were we always helpless, whiny, weak sisters?"

In 1927 , a major unnamed hurricane struck the city of New Orleans. It was actually more powerful than Katrina. The scope of damage was much more severe because this particular hurricane actually hit the city. Katrina missed it by 25 miles."

Boon Mee, you do realize that it is ridiculous to compare and think that the government's response or lack thereof in 1927 should serve as a model for today's government.

First of all, the country and most of the world were already slipping into a depression.

American depression didn't occur until 1929 and depression in other countries would've little effect in this case. The world was not so connected economically as it is today. The 1920's as decade was a time of a booming economy (the roaring '20's). Money wasn't really an issues with govererment spending. America was simply more federalist at that time, which I don't think was such a good thing.

Secondly, there was no social safety nets, and the Country was barely past a slave economy, as Jim Crow Laws were still relatively young.

How on earth can you compare tents and camping equipment as a response to today's emergencies in today's world    I'm sure you would have no problem watching the poor and disadvantaged scrape the sides of garbage cans for food, but the rest of the civilized world actually learned a few things from the past; not so for neo-con libertarians it seems.

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All of this banter is easily cured by watching hours and hours of 'fair and balanced reporting' on Fux news (and maybe a few valiums, perhaps quite a few, to emulate the avg soccer mum's n dad's republican party line's views)

All of this banter is easily cured by watching hours and hours of 'fair and balanced reporting' on Fux news (and maybe a few valiums, perhaps quite a few, to emulate the avg soccer mum's n dad's republican party line's views) 

And The Commie News Network (CNN) is better?

I'll give ya that one Bm

Watch diff news programs, read diff newspapers and then make up your own mind.

Watch diff news programs, read diff newspapers and then make up your own mind.

Exactly, brit...

Since the advent of the internet, there's a plethora of news sites available.

Watch diff news programs, read diff newspapers and then make up your own mind.

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Exactly, brit...

Since the advent of the internet, there's a plethora of news sites available.

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Right wing lunatics blogs doesn't qualify as newspaper Boon Me

Try a real paper and a real news channel like the BBC

Faux News is entertainment for the brain dead who need a lot of sensationalism to stimulate their tiny little brain

Try a real paper and a real news channel like the BBC

Watch diff news programs, read diff newspapers and then make up your own mind.

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Exactly, brit...

Since the advent of the internet, there's a plethora of news sites available.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Right wing lunatics blogs doesn't qualify as newspaper Boon Me

Try a real paper and a real news channel like the BBC

Faux News is entertainment for the brain dead who need a lot of sensationalism to stimulate their tiny little brain

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Brain dead and little brain... redundant don't ya think?

Brain dead and little brain... redundant don't ya think?

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not really, they just come in pair

Try a real paper and a real news channel like the BBC

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They are, really. You might not like what they say but they are mostly right on the money 90% of the time. CNN lately has come back from his Journalism letargy so they might have real competition soon.

Sorry to put all to sleep with this little lecture, but Thaibebop, post #286) seems to think that the collapse of the American economy in 1929 is contained in the single event of the "Black Thursday" stock market crash of October 1929; he is mistaken.

The following are edited versions of other links, so the rest of you can skip if not interested.

Timeline:

America's Great Depression is regarded as having begun in 1929 with the Stock Market crash, and ended in 1941 with America's entry into World War II. However, to fully understand the Great Depression, one must look at it in context of events that happened before and after those dates. For that reason, the timeline below includes events many decades before and after the Great Depression itself.

Most economists of the 1920s believed that the stock market--not housing starts, sales of durable goods, or the financial health of banks--was the chief indicator of the fiscal health of the United States. In September of 1929, stock prices began to fluctuate, but market analysts dismissed this as temporary. What many of these analysts did not realize--or refused to admit--however, was that stock prices were totally out of proportion to actual profits. Sales of goods and the construction of factories were falling rapidly while stock values continued to climb. Still, very few were worried; they still accepted Adam Smith's "self-adjusting economy" as dogma and believed the problems would correct themselves.

Several types of events are covered in the timeline below. The first is the passage of legislation that effects either the money supply, international trade, or price and wage controls. The second is important publications about economics. The third is business cycle peaks and troughs. The last is significant political and social events.

A. * most pertinent is in bold

1920 January, [u]economic expansion peaks; a severe recession begins [/u]

February 28th, Transportation Act passed

ICC empowered to prescribe intrastate rates when necessary to eliminate discrimination against carriers in interstate commerce

Railroad Labor Board created

April 15, Frederick A. Parmenter, paymaster for the Slater and Morrill Shoe Factories, and his guard, Alessandro Beradelli are murdered during a robbery

May, Treasury begins to buy silver at one dollar an ounce, as required by the Pittman Act of 1918

August 18th, 19th Amendment ratified (women's vote)

Jones Act passed, prohibits shipping merchandise between U.S. ports "in any other vessel than a vessel built in and documented under the laws of the United States and owned by persons who are citizens of the United States.''

Warren G. Harding defeats Governor James M. Cox of Ohio to become the 29th President. Voter turnout is 49.2 percent, an all time low up to then.

1921 April, Allied Reparations Commission establishes 132 billion gold marks ($33 billion) as the amount of reparations that Germany must pay

May 19th, Emergency Quota Act passed, establishing national quotas for immigrants

July, economic contraction ends; recovery begins

July 14th, immigrant anarchists, Nicola Sacco and Bartolomeo Vanzetti, convicted of murder

1922 September, Fordney-McCumber Tariff Act passed

Capper-Volstead Act passed

Hyperinflation begins in Germany

Socialism: An Economic and Sociological Analysis, by Ludwig von Mises, published

1923 January, Rosewood massacre

April 9th, Supreme Court decides Adkins v. Children's Hospital , finding that a Congressionally-mandated minimum wage for the District of Columbia is unconstitutional

May, economic expansion peaks, recession begins

mid-year, silver purchase policy effectively ends

August 2, Warren G. Harding dies in San Francisco, apparently from a heart attack

Tract on Monetary Reform, by John Maynard Keynes, published

Hyperinflation ends in Germany

1924 February 3rd, Woodrow Wilson dies

July, economic contraction ends, recovery begins

July, Olympics held in Paris

Congress passes an amendment to the constitution, empowering Congress to limit, regulate, and prohibit the labor of persons under 18 years of age. (The number of state legislatures that ratified the proposed amendment was 28, or 8 less than the 36 then required.)

Keiss Act passed, allowing unionization of the Government Printing Office.

Congress bans heroin completely

Johnson-Reed Act passed, severely limiting immigration

November, Calvin Coolidge elected president

German Hyperinflation ends

The French army evacuates the Ruhr region of Germany, allowing a major increase in coal production

Coal operators in Britain engage in a lock out for seven months, in an effort to force down wages

1925 April 28th, Britain announces return to a gold standard for its currency, setting the value of the pound back to its pre-World War I value of $4.86/pound

July 10-25, Scopes Monkey Trial

The Great Gatsby, by F. Scott Fitzgerald, published

1926 May 3rd, a nine day nationwide general strike begins in Britain

May 20th, Railway Labor Act passed

October, economic expansion peaks, recession begins

Revenue Act of 1926 passed, cutting taxes of those earning $1M or more by two-thirds

1927 May 20, Charles Lindbergh takes off from Roosevelt Field in Long Island, N.Y., aboard the Spirit of St. Louis on his historic solo flight to France.

August 23rd, immigrant anarchists, Nicola Sacco and Bartolomeo Vanzetti, were executed

November, economic contraction ends, recovery begins

December, the Ford Motor Company introduces the Model A

Federal Reserve reduces the discount rate by half a point and purchases $230 million of government securities

1928 June, France returns to a gold standard, establishing exchange rates of 124 francs per pound and 25.51 francs per dollar [/u]August 27th, Kellogg-Briand Pact signed, "outlawing" war

October, Benjamin Strong, Governor of the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, dies.

November, Herbert Hoover elected president

1929 February 2nd, Federal Reserve announces a ban on bank loans for margin trades

June 15th, Agricultural Marketing Act passed

August, economic expansion peaks

September 3rd, stock market prices peak, with New York Times index of industrial stocks at 452

October 24th, "Black Thursday," recorded sales of shares hits 12,895,000

October 25th, market rallies, briefly

October 29th, "Black Tuesday," recorded sales of shares hits 16,410,000. New York Times index of industrial stocks drops nearly forty points, the worst drop in Wall Street history to that point.

November 13th, stock market prices reach low for the year, with New York Times index of industrial stocks at 224

____________________________________________________________________

B.

The stock market crash of 1929 was an indication of serious, underlying problems in the United States economy, but it was not the sole cause of the Great Depression. The Crash merely made the cracks in America's superficial prosperity much more obvious. And, since the causes of the economic crises were complex, the solution to the economic problems facing the United States would be complicated as well.

Cracks in the Economic Foundation

After the Great Crash, the American public sought a scapegoat for the economic collapse. Some held President Hoover responsible, others targeted the "three B's"--brokers, bankers, and businessmen. But the cause of the Great Depression could not be attributed to one individual or even a group of people. The roots of the Great Depression were in the very structure of the American economy, namely:

1. Unequal distribution of wealth and income.

Despite rising wages overall, income distribution was unequal. Gaps in income had actually increased since the 1890s. The 1% of the population at the very top of the pyramid had incomes 650% greater than those 11% of Americans at the bottom of the pyramid. The tremendous concentration of wealth in the hands of a few meant that continued economic prosperity was dependent on the high investment and luxury spending of the wealthy. However, both the high spending and high investment of the time, much like today, were susceptible to economic fluctuations; they were much less stable than people's expenses on daily necessities like food, clothing, and shelter. Therefore, when the market crashed and the economy tumbled, both big spending and big investment collapsed, as well.

2. Unequal distribution of corporate power.

From the late 1870s on, there had been an ongoing movement of business consolidations and mergers in the United States. During WWI, many potential commercial competitors merged into huge corporations like General Electric and eliminated competition in major American industries. In 1929, two hundred of the biggest corporations controlled 50% of the nation's corporate wealth. This concentration of corporate wealth meant that if just a few companies went under after the Crash, the whole economy would suffer.

3. Bad banking structure.

In the 1920s, banks were opening at the rate of four to five per day, but without many federal restrictions to determine how much start-up capital a bank needed or how much it could lend. As a result, most of these banks were highly insolvent. Between 1923 and 1929, banks closed at the rate of two a day. Yet, until the stock market crash in 1929, the nation's seemingly inevitable prosperity helped concealed the potentially fatal flaws in the American banking system.

4. Foreign balance of payments.

World War I had turned the United States from a debtor nation into a creditor nation. In the aftermath of the war, both the victorious Allies and the defeated Central Powers owed the United States more money than it owed to foreign nations. The Republican administrations of the 1920s insisted on payments in gold bullion, but the world's gold supply was limited and by the end of the 1920s, the United States, itself, controlled much of the world's gold supply. Besides gold, which was increasingly in short supply, countries could pay their debts in goods and services. However, protectionism and high tariffs kept foreign goods out of the United States. The Hawley-Smoot Act (1930) set the highest schedule of tariffs to date. This protectionism produced a negative effect on United States exports: if foreign countries couldn't pay their debts, they had no money to buy American goods.

5. Limited or poor state of economic intelligence.

Most American economists and political leaders in 1929 still believed in laissez-faire and the self-regulating economy. To help the economy along in its self-adjustment, President Hoover asked businesses to voluntarily hold down production and increase employment, but businesses couldn't keep up high employment for long when they weren't selling goods. There was a widespread belief that if the federal budget were balanced, the economy would bounce back. To balance the budget demanded no further tax cuts (although Hoover lowered taxes) and no increase in government spending, which was disastrous in light of rising unemployment and falling prices. Another problem with economic practices of the day was the commitment of the Hoover administration to remain on the international gold standard. Many analysts implored Hoover to increase the money supply and to devalue the dollar by printing paper money not backed by gold, but the president refused. Going off the gold standard was one of Roosevelt's first actions when he entered the White House in 1933.

Copyright 1997 State Historical Society of Wisconsin

___________________________________________________________________

C. In a nutshell:

THE MAIN AREAS OF DEPRESSION

The US economy had experienced rapid economic growth and financial excess in the late 1920s, and initially the economic downturn was seen as simply part of the boom-bust-boom cycle. Unexpectedly, however, output continued to fall for three and a half years, by which time half of the population was in desperate circumstances. It also became clear that there had been serious over-production in agriculture, leading to falling prices and a rising debt among farmers. At the same time there was a major banking crisis, including the "Wall Street Crash" in October 1929. The situation was aggravated by serious policy mistakes of the Federal Reserve Board, which led to a fall in money supply and further contraction of the economy.

http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps/depression/about.htm

Sorry to put all to sleep with this little lecture, but Thaibebop, post #286) seems to think that the collapse of the American economy in 1929 is contained in the single event of the "Black Thursday" stock market crash of October 1929; he is mistaken.

Too many checks and balances these days for another 'Black Friday'.

Wow....okay....well.....

It's just not worth it.

How far were the flooded buses from the Superdome?

But of course it was Bush's fault that the citizens of New Orleans elected Mayor Nagin.

What was great was Michael Brown telling the congressional committee that it was his fault that he didn't realize how incompetent Mayor Nagin and Governor Useless were and insisting on trying to get control sooner.