Thai-Cambodian Border Clashes Kill Six

[webfact]

Border clashes kill six

By The Nation

PM says Thai troops reacted to Cambodian firing in worst flare-up over a decade; Phnom Penh vows to take the issue to UN Security Council today

Artillery exchanges between Thailand and Cambodia yesterday in the disputed area near the Hindu Preah Vihear Temple killed at least six soldiers and civilians on both sides as well as damaged property in one of the worst border flare-ups in a decade.

Phnom Penh plans to complain today to the United Nations over what it terms a "Thai invasion", Cambodian Foreign Ministry spokesman Koy Kuong said yesterday.

"We will lodge a complaint with the UN Security Council on Saturday [today]," he was quoted by Agence France-Presse as saying.

However, Thai Defence Minister Prawit Wongsuwan played down the significance of the incident. "We are negotiating now and I am sure that everything will be fine," he said.

Army chief Prayut Chan-o-cha said the situation calmed down after 6pm and some Thai soldiers were slightly injured but a soldier on the ground contacted by The Nation via telephone said they were still engaged in the battle late last night. "So far we have lost two, and I was injured. We cannot go down the Phu Ma Khua hill," the injured soldier said in a short conversation before the line was cut.

After the fighting ended, Second Army Area commander Lt-General Thawatchai Samutsakhon and Si Sa Ket Governor Somsak Suwansujarit held talks with a Cambodian army commander at the Phra Viharn National Park about the clash.

Charoen Thahom, a 50-year-old resident of Si Sa Ket's Phum Srol village, was killed by an artillery shell that landed in his village while he was leading his family to seek shelter after the border skirmish broke out.

At least seven buildings, including one owned by Phum Srol School, were hit by artillery shells fired from the Cambodian side.

Three houses were set ablaze.

Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva said last night that the Thai side fired warning shots and then responded to the Cambodian fire when the warnings were ignored. He added that the fighting now was over. However, he declined to confirm a report that Thai soldiers had been captured during the clash.

The clash occurred at a disputed border area near Phu Ma Khua hill at 3.15pm and the sound of gunfire was heard at Si Sa Ket province's Ban Phum Srol about 5 kilometres from the hill, villagers said.

"We were at a sports event when the sound of many weapons, including small arms and heavy weapons, was heard from the battlefield," a resident told The Nation via telephone.

Besides the civilian and soldiers fatality, five Thai soldiers were injured in the clash, according to Public Health Minister Jurin Laksanawisit.

Authorities told villagers to seek shelter and later evacuated them to safe areas deeper into Thai territory. Some of them moved to a downtown area of Kantharalak district, about 30km from the Preah Vihear Temple.

Thailand and Cambodia have been at loggerheads over the border area adjacent to Preah Vihear for a long time.

Both sides boosted troop numbers in the area recently after the People's Alliance for Democracy (PAD) staged a protest near the Prime Minister's Office demanding the government use force to kick Cambodians out of the area.

PAD leader Chamlong Srimuang said he was not happy with the border clash, since it damaged both sides. "It happened because Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva showed weakness to Cambodia," he said.

Troops clashed in 2008 and 2009 in the same area, resulting in the deaths of more than 10 soldiers on both sides.

The clash this time was fiercer as it saw the use of artillery that hit civilians and their homes. Residents saw many shells land near their villages in tambon Sao Thong Chai.

Deputy Prime Minister Suthep Thaugsuban said Cambodian troops opened fire first, triggering the exchange of fire.

However, Cambodian government spokesman Phay Siphan said Thai soldiers had crossed 500 metres into Cambodian territory and opened fire first despite efforts of Cambodian troops to avoid violence.

"Although Cambodian soldiers tried to negotiate to stop the Thai soldiers from invading Cambodia, the Thai Army kept moving deeper into Cambodian territory and opened fire without provocation by Cambodian forces. We have the right to self-defence to protect our land against Thai invasion," he said.

Cambodian media reported that least two Cambodian civilians and one soldier died after Thai shells landed on the Cambodian side.

Cambodia reportedly held four Thai soldiers at Keo Sikha Kiri Svara Pagoda, which is in the disputed border area near Preah Vihear.

The clash broke out shortly after Foreign Minister Kasit Piromya finished a Joint Commission meeting with his Cambodian counterpart Hor Namhong in Siem Reap. They told reporters there that they were happy with the improving relations and agreed to use peaceful means to settle the boundary conflict.

-- The Nation 2011-02-05

[webfact]

US urges restraint on Thai-Cambodia border

WASHINGTON, (AFP) - The United States on Friday urged Thailand and Cambodia to show "maximum restraint" after soldiers exchanged fire on the two countries' border, leaving at least two people dead.

"The United States urges both sides to exercise maximum restraint and take all necessary steps to reduce tensions and avoid further conflict," a State Department spokesperson told AFP.

"We are closely monitoring the situation," she said.

Thailand and Cambodia each accused each other of starting the skirmishes near the ancient Preah Vihear temple, which has long been a source of dispute between the Southeast Asian nations.

Cambodia said it planned to take the incident to the UN Security Council.

-- (c) Copyright AFP 2011-02-05

[geovalin]

Six dead persons it's a lot. At this moment, only 2 or 3 are sure and it's enough.

Since the beginning, Cambodia wants to solve the problem with the help of the UN, this is the only reasonable solution as Thailand prevents the JB commission to go on (the Thai senate blocks the process).

[h90]

Six dead persons it's a lot. At this moment, only 2 or 3 are sure and it's enough.

Since the beginning, Cambodia wants to solve the problem with the help of the UN, this is the only reasonable solution as Thailand prevents the JB commission to go on (the Thai senate blocks the process).

No since ever both sides try to cheat the other as good as possible. Cambodia does not want to SOLVE the problem with the help of the UN. It just things it will get most that way.

[webfact]

Cambodia: Thailand Started Clash

Cambodia held a press conference claiming Thailand started yesterday's clash at the border which killed 2 of its citizens and caused damages to the Preah Vihear Temple.

Cambodia said it will file a complaint with the International Court of Justice.

-- Tan Network 2011-02-05

[virtualtraveller]

here we go, international court of justice...Perhaps Hun Sen could hire Robert Amsterdam, they were made for each other!

[geovalin]

Six dead persons it's a lot. At this moment, only 2 or 3 are sure and it's enough.

Since the beginning, Cambodia wants to solve the problem with the help of the UN, this is the only reasonable solution as Thailand prevents the JB commission to go on (the Thai senate blocks the process).

No since ever both sides try to cheat the other as good as possible. Cambodia does not want to SOLVE the problem with the help of the UN. It just things it will get most that way.

The reason why Cambodia wants to solve the case fast is not that Khmer are specially peaceful, it's just that peace = Preah Vihar open = visitors = money.

[sjjmmi]

Amazing Thailand :jap:

here we go, international court of justice...Perhaps Hun Sen could hire Robert Amsterdam, they were made for each other!

[angiud]

Cambodia: Thailand Started Clash

Cambodia held a press conference claiming Thailand started yesterday's clash at the border which killed 2 of its citizens and caused damages to the Preah Vihear Temple.

Cambodia said it will file a complaint with the International Court of Justice.

-- Tan Network 2011-02-05

The thai are slow learners.

They have a bitter war in the south over a territory annexed in 1909,now they are seeking to steal cambodian territory.

They stole a large chunk of cambodia during WW2 and were forced to give it back by the allies after the war.

The posturing by the PAD was always going to result on bloodshed.

Thai rangers murder cambodians near the border every week,not reported in the thai media.

Now the cowardly thai rangers are encountering khmers with weapons and skills they are a little taken aback.

Several thais captured and two tanks damaged-go the khmers!

Better you switch on your brain before post on TV

[siamdivers]

We have a World Heritage protected site which could now be destroyed and possibly lost forever by military shelling as a result of both sides arguing over the best way to protect it and who it belongs too.

If both sides really do care about protecting this valuable historical site, pull back, and talk about it. If the place is destroyed, they'll be nothing to fight about and both nations--and the world--will lose out.

[barrybankruad]

Cambodia: Thailand Started Clash

Cambodia held a press conference claiming Thailand started yesterday's clash at the border which killed 2 of its citizens and caused damages to the Preah Vihear Temple.

Cambodia said it will file a complaint with the International Court of Justice.

-- Tan Network 2011-02-05

The thai are slow learners.

They have a bitter war in the south over a territory annexed in 1909,now they are seeking to steal cambodian territory.

They stole a large chunk of cambodia during WW2 and were forced to give it back by the allies after the war.

The posturing by the PAD was always going to result on bloodshed.

Thai rangers murder cambodians near the border every week,not reported in the thai media.

Now the cowardly thai rangers are encountering khmers with weapons and skills they are a little taken aback.

Several thais captured and two tanks damaged-go the khmers!

Better you switch on your brain before post on TV

I live right on the Cambodian border and what Anguid says about the Thai border police and rangers is true. Many cases of Cambodians being killed as they enter Thailand. Often the Cambodians are yaba smugglers. Common knowledge around here and as stated never reported in the media.

[HeavyDrinker]

Technically speaking there IS no problem.

The International Court of Justice ruled that the ruins are Cambodian and Thailand should be put under pressure from the International community to withdraw at once.

Thailand should wind it's neck in and accept it. Were the boot on the other foot they would be the first ones screaming.

The problem really lies with certain politicians who every now and again want to get their knobs out and show how 'Thai' they are by re-opening this wound and firing up nationalistic fervour at the cost of innocent lives.

It is a great shame. The ruins are a truly magnificent place to visit and should have been a massive tourist draw since it was de-mined in the late 1990s/early 2000s. I have been many times and it never fails to leave me breathless.

[Emster23]

Which Englishman said something like "Patriotism is the last refuge of a scoundrel"? Dr. Johnson?

At least it isn't a Buddhist temple, given that the Buddha taught all suffering is caused by attachment.

[Buchholz]

Cambodia: Thailand Started Clash

Cambodia held a press conference claiming Thailand started yesterday's clash at the border which killed 2 of its citizens and caused damages to the Preah Vihear Temple.

Cambodia said it will file a complaint with the International Court of Justice.

-- Tan Network 2011-02-05

The thai are slow learners.

They have a bitter war in the south over a territory annexed in 1909,now they are seeking to steal cambodian territory.

They stole a large chunk of cambodia during WW2 and were forced to give it back by the allies after the war.

* war-mongering rhetoric snipped *

Perhaps the Thais could learn from the Vietnamese and work out money deals with Hun Sen whereby he just gives the land to them, like he has with the shrinking eastern border with Vietnam.

.

Edited February 5, 2011 by Buchholz

[geovalin]

Technically speaking there IS no problem.

The International Court of Justice ruled that the ruins are Cambodian and Thailand should be put under pressure from the International community to withdraw at once.

Thailand should wind it's neck in and accept it. Were the boot on the other foot they would be the first ones screaming.

The problem really lies with certain politicians who every now and again want to get their knobs out and show how 'Thai' they are by re-opening this wound and firing up nationalistic fervour at the cost of innocent lives.

It is a great shame. The ruins are a truly magnificent place to visit and should have been a massive tourist draw since it was de-mined in the late 1990s/early 2000s. I have been many times and it never fails to leave me breathless.

100% true

This is why you can read in the Thai newspapers that, in case the foreign countries have to take a party, they'll support Cambodia. It's the acknowledgment that the Thai position is untenable, except by force.

[whybother]

Technically speaking there IS no problem.

The International Court of Justice ruled that the ruins are Cambodian and Thailand should be put under pressure from the International community to withdraw at once.

Thailand should wind it's neck in and accept it. Were the boot on the other foot they would be the first ones screaming.

The problem really lies with certain politicians who every now and again want to get their knobs out and show how 'Thai' they are by re-opening this wound and firing up nationalistic fervour at the cost of innocent lives.

It is a great shame. The ruins are a truly magnificent place to visit and should have been a massive tourist draw since it was de-mined in the late 1990s/early 2000s. I have been many times and it never fails to leave me breathless.

They're not fighting over the ruins. They are fighting over the land around the ruins. The ICJ didn't make a ruling over the land, only the temple area. The are trying to sort out the ownership of the land.

[Buchholz]

Technically speaking there IS no problem.

The International Court of Justice ruled that the ruins are Cambodian and Thailand should be put under pressure from the International community to withdraw at once.

*sigh*

multiple threads... same same reply

The World Court ruled in 1962 that Preah Vihear itself belonged to Cambodia, although its main entrance lies in Thailand. The exact boundary through the surrounding grounds remains in dispute. The Thai-Cambodia border has never been fully demarcated, partly because it is littered with landmines left over from decades of war in Cambodia.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/world/8781169/fresh-fighting-at-thaicambodian-border-army-source/

The International Court of Justice awarded it to Cambodia in 1962 but the ruling did not determine the ownership of 1.8 square miles (4.6 sq km) of scrub next to the ruins, leaving considerable scope for disagreement.

http://www.asiaone.com/News/Latest+News/Asia/Story/A1Story20110204-261964.html

.

Edited February 5, 2011 by Buchholz

[whybother]

Technically speaking there IS no problem.

The International Court of Justice ruled that the ruins are Cambodian and Thailand should be put under pressure from the International community to withdraw at once.

Thailand should wind it's neck in and accept it. Were the boot on the other foot they would be the first ones screaming.

The problem really lies with certain politicians who every now and again want to get their knobs out and show how 'Thai' they are by re-opening this wound and firing up nationalistic fervour at the cost of innocent lives.

It is a great shame. The ruins are a truly magnificent place to visit and should have been a massive tourist draw since it was de-mined in the late 1990s/early 2000s. I have been many times and it never fails to leave me breathless.

100% true

This is why you can read in the Thai newspapers that, in case the foreign countries have to take a party, they'll support Cambodia. It's the acknowledgment that the Thai position is untenable, except by force.

100% true ... EXCEPT they are not fighting over the ruins.

[geovalin]

Technically speaking there IS no problem.

The International Court of Justice ruled that the ruins are Cambodian and Thailand should be put under pressure from the International community to withdraw at once.

*sigh*

multiple threads... same same reply

The World Court ruled in 1962 that Preah Vihear itself belonged to Cambodia, although its main entrance lies in Thailand. The exact boundary through the surrounding grounds remains in dispute. The Thai-Cambodia border has never been fully demarcated, partly because it is littered with landmines left over from decades of war in Cambodia.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/world/8781169/fresh-fighting-at-thaicambodian-border-army-source/

The International Court of Justice awarded it to Cambodia in 1962 but the ruling did not determine the ownership of 1.8 square miles (4.6 sq km) of scrub next to the ruins, leaving considerable scope for disagreement.

http://www.asiaone.com/News/Latest+News/Asia/Story/A1Story20110204-261964.html

.

"Sigh"

We know that, we read it already and it's maybe true. This is the Thai position.

The point I wanted to highlight is that the Thai position can be understood only by Thais and some farangs, it's far too complicated and the other countries will follow Cambodia, even the Thais know that. It's the reason of their frustration.

[Buchholz]

Technically speaking there IS no problem.

The International Court of Justice ruled that the ruins are Cambodian and Thailand should be put under pressure from the International community to withdraw at once.

*sigh*

multiple threads... same same reply

The World Court ruled in 1962 that Preah Vihear itself belonged to Cambodia, although its main entrance lies in Thailand. The exact boundary through the surrounding grounds remains in dispute. The Thai-Cambodia border has never been fully demarcated, partly because it is littered with landmines left over from decades of war in Cambodia.

http://au.news.yahoo.com/thewest/a/-/world/8781169/fresh-fighting-at-thaicambodian-border-army-source/

The International Court of Justice awarded it to Cambodia in 1962 but the ruling did not determine the ownership of 1.8 square miles (4.6 sq km) of scrub next to the ruins, leaving considerable scope for disagreement.

http://www.asiaone.com/News/Latest+News/Asia/Story/A1Story20110204-261964.html

.

"Sigh"

We know that, we read it already and it's maybe true. This is the Thai position.

The point I wanted to highlight is that the Thai position can be understood only by Thais and some farangs, it's far too complicated and the other countries will follow Cambodia, even the Thais know that. It's the reason of their frustration.

"it's maybe true"

The position is not the "Thai position" if all the international media is stating it.

The position can be understood by anyone that can read.

.

Edited February 5, 2011 by Buchholz

[angsta]

Now the cowardly thai rangers are encountering khmers with weapons and skills they are a little taken aback.

Several thais captured and two tanks damaged-go the khmers!

The brave Thai army - very good at marching khmer refugees off mountains, not quite so clever when they meet a few with weapons. Shit, I better "switch on my brain" like the rest of the posters on this board??

[HeavyDrinker]

The point is that the Thai politicians who always start this crap up use the ruins as the focal point not the land.

[whybother]

The point is that the Thai politicians who always start this crap up use the ruins as the focal point not the land.

Which Thai politicians are "start(ing) up this crap"?

edit: It seems to me that the Thai politicians are trying to negotiate about "this crap", both the current 'skirmish' and the land dispute itself.

Edited February 5, 2011 by whybother

[webfact]

DPM Suthep denies Thais soldiers captured by Cambodian troops, expects clashes between Thai and Cambodian solders will not intensify /MCOT

TVThai Cambodian press reported Cambodia admitted to firing first but situation escalated because of Thai troops' strong reaction /TAN_Network

[Crash999]

We know that, we read it already and it's maybe true. This is the Thai position.

The point I wanted to highlight is that the Thai position can be understood only by Thais and some farangs, it's far too complicated and the other countries will follow Cambodia, even the Thais know that. It's the reason of their frustration.

With such issues other countries will refrain from commenting, beyond a 'we hope this issue can be resolved peacefully' type of statement.

There are many other such disputes around the world and each party brings with it evidence that they believe confirms their own position.

[webfact]

Related topic:

AFP: Tensions on Thai-Cambodia border - Timeline

Follow this link:

[zakk9]

This is Thai nationalist crap of the worst kind. Some more or less influential Thais use this long lost case to gain popularity among their own. They couldn't care less about the land up there, and even less about lost human lives. They only care about their own faces and about their wallets. Unfortunately for the, Abhisit has proven to be a pragmatic politician, unwilling to share the absurd patriotic agenda of the yellows. Now they use this case to "prove" that Abhisit is to weak to govern the country.

Unfortunately, this seems to be the true face of Thailand, and places the nation firmly among other third world nations, unwilling to move into the 2oth, not to speak about the 21st, century.

[webfact]

Cambodia: 10 Soldiers, Civilians Killed in Clashes

The Cambodian Foreign Ministry has said Thailand violated Cambodian territory in 3 areas during the clashes yesterday, resulting in 10 Cambodian soldiers and civilians being killed. It also reported of damages to Preah Vihear Temple.

-- Tan Network 2011-02-05

[webfact]

Cambodian Foreign Ministry: Thai soldiers violated 3 areas in Cambodia; 10 Cambodian soldiers, civilians killed, Preah Vihear Temple damaged /TAN_Network

[Buchholz]

This is Thai nationalist crap of the worst kind. Some more or less influential Thais use this long lost case to gain popularity among their own. They couldn't care less about the land up there, and even less about lost human lives. They only care about their own faces and about their wallets. Unfortunately for the, Abhisit has proven to be a pragmatic politician, unwilling to share the absurd patriotic agenda of the yellows. Now they use this case to "prove" that Abhisit is to weak to govern the country.

Unfortunately, this seems to be the true face of Thailand, and places the nation firmly among other third world nations, unwilling to move into the 2oth, not to speak about the 21st, century.

You would be more accurate if you wrote, "This is nationalist crap of the worst kind from both sides." and then continued by inserting "and Cambodians", "and Hun Sen", "and Cambodia", for the remainder.

The fighting erupted near a disputed 11th century Hindu temple which is claimed by both sides and has become a focal point for both Thai and Cambodian nationalists.

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/25e7e05e-305b-11e0-8d80-00144feabdc0.html#axzz1D3QPH2sW

.

Edited February 5, 2011 by Buchholz