Sex Attack - A British Woman’s Trauma In The Hills

[Lite Beer]

Sex attack - a British woman’s trauma in the hills

By Andrew Drummond.

In answer to a recent story I wrote about the alleged rape of a British woman in Patong, Phuket, I have received this letter from a young British woman, who two years ago was the victim of a sexual attack in Thailand. I was moved by this letter because it does so seem to capture so well what CAN happen to a woman here when she reports a sexual attack to the local police and reflects the issues I have come up against when dealing with sexual crimes against foreigners.

“Around 2 years ago, I went to the police after being attacked. They listened to the story then gave my supposedly confidential statements to the local journalist (who got it published in a Thai National newspaper, something that I wasn't expecting at all)

When the police interviewed me I described the attacker's build, eyes and his facial features. But the police didn't seem to be interested in anything other than what his nose looked like and whether it was kind of squashed on the end (they kept repeating jamuk dong my) something that I guess most westerners don't really pay that much attention to.

I described his clothes and the fact that he had a wound on his belly. They weren't interested (I didn't see them take notes about any of this.) They wanted to know why I did not know what the model of his motorbike was, or it's registration no.

I was asked a lot of questions about my taste in men eg. Had I ever liked a Thai man? Had I ever had sex with one? Had I ever wanted to date one? Had I ever had a gik / close friend? Why wasn't I interested in them? Did I like tall men/young men? that, given what had just happened seemed very insensitive.

-- Andrew-Drummond.com 2011-02-05

Full Story Here

[londonthai]

I wouldn't believe this story - “Around 2 years ago" is not specific. Would be worth to check the nation, if the article about this waman really appeared.

[mark45y]

My daughter #2 wrote me she was coming to SEA for a vacation. It is a long flight and I appreciate her effort to see me. I arranged to meet her in Singapore. This country is no place for a Western woman. I don't want my female kin to be a potential agent for positive change in Thailand.

Daughter #3, it's OK for her to come. She comes once a year with a couple thousand of her friends with guns and bombs and stuff, Cobra Gold.

Daughters #1 and #4 I send postcards.

This place is no place for ladies from the West.

[Ulysses G.]

I wouldn't believe this story

If it is not genuine, there are plenty of similar stories that are.

[AZBill]

As I have said many times - LOS is just another third world country whose institutions survive on bribery and corruption - Mexico without the work ethic! Travel at your own risk ladies!

[Buchholz]

I wouldn't believe this story - “Around 2 years ago" is not specific. Would be worth to check the nation, if the article about this waman really appeared.

On the contrary, it sounds very believable.

I attempted to find one implausible aspect to the report. There were none.

It highlights the stark contrast of how rape is interpreted, viewed, and dealt with here as opposed to the West.

.

Edited February 6, 2011 by Buchholz

[jayjay0]

I wouldn't believe this story

If it is not genuine, there are plenty of similar stories that are.

Well if it is not a genuine story the one fact in it that is genuine is that the British embassy will do nothing to help you.

[prefabs]

I wouldn't believe this story - "Around 2 years ago" is not specific. Would be worth to check the nation, if the article about this waman really appeared.

Why exactly wouldn't you believe this story? Seems like you are one of the people who women complain about after assaults etc.

. The type of person who is insensitive and all too readily discount stories of rape or sexual assault.

No wonder women don't report all rape cases, it is bad enough dealing with the police, never mind posters like you

[jayjay0]

I wouldn't believe this story - "Around 2 years ago" is not specific. Would be worth to check the nation, if the article about this waman really appeared.

Why exactly wouldn't you believe this story? Seems like you are one of the people who women complain about after assaults etc.

. The type of person who is insensitive and all too readily discount stories of rape or sexual assault.

No wonder women don't report all rape cases, it is bad enough dealing with the police, never mind posters like you

I don't know what go's on in a rape case in the states now.

But I can remember when if a women pushed it and the perp. was taken to court and her morals would be drug out for judgment.

[mark45y]

I wouldn't believe this story - "Around 2 years ago" is not specific. Would be worth to check the nation, if the article about this waman really appeared.

Why exactly wouldn't you believe this story? Seems like you are one of the people who women complain about after assaults etc.

. The type of person who is insensitive and all too readily discount stories of rape or sexual assault.

No wonder women don't report all rape cases, it is bad enough dealing with the police, never mind posters like you

I don't know what go's on in a rape case in the states now.

But I can remember when if a women pushed it and the perp. was taken to court and her morals would be drug out for judgment.

Start watching Law and Order Special Victims Unit. On in Thailand Monday nights at 9 I think.

[londonthai]

Why exactly wouldn't you believe this story? Seems like you are one of the people who women complain about after assaults etc.

. The type of person who is insensitive and all too readily discount stories of rape or sexual assault.

No wonder women don't report all rape cases, it is bad enough dealing with the police, never mind posters like you

I do not remember an article from the nation 2 years ago, facts don't up, so the whole story probably is made up.

I don't see the reason, why some woman might complain to police about me.

[angiud]

You don't remember an article 2 years ago on the Nation, so you say the story is fake.

Small ego, chaimai?

[Cnxforever]

I wouldn't believe this story - "Around 2 years ago" is not specific. Would be worth to check the nation, if the article about this waman really appeared.

she never said it was published in The Nation - she said it was published in "a Thai national newsaper" - police and rescue teams here usually sell these stories (including confidential statements) and pictures to the Thai newspapers making extra money without any regard or respect for the privacy / dignity of victims.

[eek]

Male or female, being the victim of assault/rape is enough of a trauma without having to go through the aftermath of insensitivity and ignorance. Globally authorities need to be educated in how to handle these cases in an appropriate manner. That includes allowing the victim to try keep some semblance of dignity whilst aiming to get accurate descriptions and details (including medical examinations/tests). Its a vulnerable time where the victim doesnt need the trauma of rape compounded by utter ignorance and stupidity.

[asiawatcher]

Male or female, being the victim of assault/rape is enough of a trauma without having to go through the aftermath of insensitivity and ignorance. Globally authorities need to be educated in how to handle these cases in an appropriate manner. That includes allowing the victim to try keep some semblance of dignity whilst aiming to get accurate descriptions and details (including medical examinations/tests). Its a vulnerable time where the victim doesnt need the trauma of rape compounded by utter ignorance and stupidity.

Agree - the nature of the questions would pretty much indicate the sincerity of the interrogators. Zilch.

[Buchholz]

-- Andrew-Drummond.com 2011-02-05

Full Story Here

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[TAWP]

I do not remember an article from the nation 2 years ago, facts don't up, so the whole story probably is made up.

Neither do you remember a forum post from a few minute ago. If you did you would know it didn't say 'The Nation'.

And AD, your site didn't handle the PHP upgrade too well.

[Beetlejuice]

Why exactly wouldn't you believe this story? Seems like you are one of the people who women complain about after assaults etc.

. The type of person who is insensitive and all too readily discount stories of rape or sexual assault.

No wonder women don't report all rape cases, it is bad enough dealing with the police, never mind posters like you

I do not remember an article from the nation 2 years ago, facts don't up, so the whole story probably is made up.

I don't see the reason, why some woman might complain to police about me.

Whether this story is true or not makes no difference.

In situations similar to this case the police do not appear to be interested in putting any resources into investigating these types of crimes. For example, a medical examination of the female, making of detailed reports and pursuing the perpetrators.

The reality is that in most cases unless it is obvious to the police that a crime has taken place, a body or a confession, an earner involved or the case becomes well publicised, then the police are not prepared to spend time trying to prove the truth of the matter, the incentives to act on behalf of an alleged victim is just not there.

I would say that if you become a victim of crime in Thailand, then it is hardly worth the time and effort reporting it to the police unless the victim can offer some sort of incentive.

In fact the law enforcers of Thailand are a bunch of amateurs, it is purely a job for the lads.

Edited February 6, 2011 by Beetlejuice

[jayjay0]

I wouldn't believe this story - "Around 2 years ago" is not specific. Would be worth to check the nation, if the article about this waman really appeared.

Why exactly wouldn't you believe this story? Seems like you are one of the people who women complain about after assaults etc.

. The type of person who is insensitive and all too readily discount stories of rape or sexual assault.

No wonder women don't report all rape cases, it is bad enough dealing with the police, never mind posters like you

I don't know what go's on in a rape case in the states now.

But I can remember when if a women pushed it and the perp. was taken to court and her morals would be drug out for judgment.

Start watching Law and Order Special Victims Unit. On in Thailand Monday nights at 9 I think.

Reruns all week long.I believe that it is eleven years old so there is lots of them.

But like I say in the 50's and 60's it was more about the woman's morals than the fact the perp raped her. They have come a long way.

For all that people say is wrong with Thailand they do not have to look that far back in there own countries history to see the same. For corruption Thaksin could have taken lessons from Ulises S Grant a Civil war hero and later President of the U. S.

[bulmercke]

-- Andrew-Drummond.com 2011-02-05

Full Story Here

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The site is still down. (From at least 9.00 AM this morning) It looks like it has been attacked again. Those nasty boiler room boys perhaps.

[TAWP]

I know 5 [Thai] women that have been raped, none of them ever filed a police-complaint.

You figure out why.

(The count is higher if counting all non-close friends etc, I have honestly lost track if one were to include acquaintances.)

[OLDAUSSIE]

-- Andrew-Drummond.com 2011-02-05

Full Story Here

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The site is still down. (From at least 9.00 AM this morning) It looks like it has been attacked again. Those nasty boiler room boys perhaps.

Or maybe the PORN KING FROM PATTAYA, he is out for revenge

[surayu]

The response she got from the local "authorities" 100% credible, this is what happen in Thailand unfortunately, i got self accusing thiefs bragging off the stolen items taken from my place to their homes, all the police did was questioning me about my passport, my permit to stay in Thailand, etc... from being the victim i was treated as the guilty one, you figure it out.

Case 2: i given a taxi driver in Bkk the business card showing the address and map in thai language about a tailor shop where i supposed to collect some clothings and all the driver was interested about was the pieces of fabrics attached to the tailor's business card, looking at it in all possible ways, touching it, smelling it,.....no way to let it go there, i had to tear the thing apart to get a taxi willing to drive me there, i then had to apologise to the tailor explaining the reason why i had to tear apart the thing........it's all like that, police, drivers, etc.....

[Phatcharanan]

If it is not genuine, there are plenty of similar stories that are.

Yeah. Like this never happens back in your good old home country huh?

[Phatcharanan]

I know 5 [Thai] women that have been raped, none of them ever filed a police-complaint.

Of course you do...........cos they told you right?

[mark45y]

If it is not genuine, there are plenty of similar stories that are.

Yeah. Like this never happens back in your good old home country huh?

Do you really think Thai police rape procedures are the same as the UK or US or Australia?

[geriatrickid]

I know 5 [Thai] women that have been raped, none of them ever filed a police-complaint.

Of course you do...........cos they told you right?

Gentlemen,

You both raise valid points. Domestic violence and sexual assaults are poorly handled in Thailand. This is a taboo subject and the reactions to it from the authorities are often due to poor training, personal fears and discomfort. And yes, sometimes false allegations are made against males, particularly foreigners.

Can we leave it at that?

[TAWP]

I know 5 [Thai] women that have been raped, none of them ever filed a police-complaint.

Of course you do...........cos they told you right?

I am not sure what your major malfunction is but I hope you get it sorted out soon.

[Ulysses G.]

If it is not genuine, there are plenty of similar stories that are.

Yeah. Like this never happens back in your good old home country huh?

This thread is not about my home country, but such treatment of rape victims would be deplorable anywhere.

[KJH]

OK, here goes...

I wrote the comments (about how the police treated me after I was attacked) as a reaction to a story that I read on the internet - some people who commented on a story about a British girl who was gang raped in Phuket last month were asking why she didn;t co-operate with the police.

I didn't know that he would reprint them as a news story, and that it would appear on thaivisa (at the time I didn't think what I wrote was that exciting or important...) but now I don't mind that it has.

The details were very sketchy. It was a stream of conscious rant about the police procedures and the way rape is viewed by some people over there. I didn't know that people would want more information, or question whether it was true.

I wanted to add these comments to his website, rather than printing them on here, but it appears to be down.

Some peole seem to want more details, so here goes...

The attack happened towards the end of June 2008 in the north of Thailand. I'm still keeping it vague. I don't want to identify the town etc. but if anyone insists I will do. I wasn't raped - though the guy inserted 4 fingers inside me before making me perform oral sex on him.

After going to the police, the story appeared (a couple of lines on the front page and more details inside...) in ThaiRath newspaper. People also joked that it was on the television news that night, but I'm not sure whether that is true or not.

It wasn't, as far as I know printed in the nation/bbk post or any of the English newspapers in Thailand. But take a look at any Thai 'tabloid' and you will see a big difference in the types of news stories that appear and the way that they are reported. The Nation etc. has lots of small print, and a couple of pictures of politicians, whilst Thai rath has at least one corpse/traffic accident/shooting/robbery story on its front page.

I'm glad it wasn't in the Nation/the English press. At the time I only told a few close friends back home what happened. Had the story been printed in English, my family/friends etc would have been very worried about me. I'd just taken a teaching job in a small northern town, and quite liked it, and I know, my family especially, would have wanted me to leave and go back home.

When I went to the police, with my then boss and one of her close friends, I had a very naive attitude that thought that the police would help. They would find/catch the man, and there'd be some kind of justice.

At the time I think we all believed that the police would help. Even now I still think that some of the policeman really wanted to. They just lacked the tact/abililty to deal with such a sensetive case (this was a small Thai town, and Thai police officers are almost always male.)

Culturally there are HUGE differences in the way sex/sexual relations are percieved between Thais and westerners. (Watch any Thai soap/see a Thai romantic movie at the cinema and you'll notice that there's a big contrast between the way relationships are formed/portrayed, in Thai movies theres little sexual activity. Maybe a couple hold hands once every so often or get - fully clothed.... have never quite managed to worktha one out... into bed. Western movies in contrast show naked couples making love, and the womans not a passive character.) Maybe its because of this, I don't know but some Thai people (esp. Thai guys) think that western girls are sex obsessed, 'gagging for it...'

And I think that this kind of attitude probably affects the police's line of questioning. They spent a lot of time asking who/what I find attractive, and repeatedly ask whether you've ever dated/wanted to have sex with a Thai guy. I guess that, to Thai people, these questions aren;t seen as being particularly insensitive or rude. When I lived in Thailand, one of the first questions people asked, after name, age and whether I'd ever eaten som-tam/been to Pattaya was whether I had a bf or not, whether I'd ever had a Thai one, and why not...

At the time, the police questions were very upsetting. I said 'no' to almost all of them (I've had Thai friends but at the time had never, ever, ever dated a Thai guy or found them attractive in that way...) but, part of me can't help wondering what had happened had I said 'yes'to any. Would they have taken the attitude (as I later heard people in town telling each other) that I had somehow deserved what happaned?

Someone commented about Medical examinations...

I was, after a couple of hours at the police station taken to the hosptial and medically examined. The hospital staff were brilliant. A nice, English speaking female doctor. She confirmed that things had been inserted into my vagina and that there was internal bleeding.

I was given an AIDS test. The results were fine. Though I've since been told that no AIDs test can detect AIDS within a day or two of blood contact, and that the doctors should have waited for a couple of weeks before they tested my blood. I'm not sure how true this is. At the time, when the hospital told me that I was OK, I was so relieved. I didn't question their procedures. I guess the people there were wanting to make things OK (or as OK as they could) again.

There were 2 police interviews, and one interview with a police artist, who sketched a rough outline of the accused. There were also a couple of visits to the police station to comment on evidence/things they thought of, and a trip back to the mountaintop to point out where the attack happened.

One of the first things the police said they wanted me to do was to go back to the attack site, describe what had happened and where. But it took a while for us to be able to do this. There were no cars (I guess we could have used my friends pick up and piled in the back but, for some reason we had to wait for a police car, and then we needed to wait for other policeman to finish their cases so that they were free to come with us too.)

By this time it had rained, so we needed to wait a while longer. I remember feeling very shakey and sick. The grass was still flattened (from where the guy had dragged me across it.) Even though it had rained the trail from my mountain bike trye tread (I was trying to turn around and go back to the road when the guy got hold of me) were still there.

I'd told the police I'd been dragged around 10-20 metres. The truth was that it was a lot further, almost 50 to the place when he'd forced me down onto the grass and carried out the attack.

I've since read about this on the internet. When people are in bad situations they often percieve the thing that happened to them to be a lot worse than it was. Later on, the police used the fact that I couldn't remember exactly how many meters the guy had dragged me across the grass for to imply that my memory was playing tricks on me, and that I was remembering info (like the t-shirt the guy was wearing at the time) wrong. They also used this line of reasoning just before the 2 ID parades. They said to look closely at the men and pick out the one 'closest' to the guy who carried out the attack. I refused, twice.

I had to pose for photos of the site, and was asked to smile (I'm still not sure whether the 'kor yim no nai kap' was a joke or not... and can't remember whether I actually did) and to look down at, and point to various things (tyre treads, grass marks etc...) I guess they're the same kind of photos that appear on the pages of ThaiRath etc. after robberies etc.

I was told that a couple of days later the police went back to the site and found an amulet close to the places I'd pointed out. It was, they said, how they knew who the attacker was and which village he'd come from. They said there were only a few villages where people wore those kind of amulets.

There are a lot of other things I could say about the evidence collecting process... The way statements are changed to suit the police's writing style eg. I told the police that the guy said 'suck...' ('aooom' in Thai.) The police told me, that no way would he have said 'suck' as its not polite, he would have said 'aoom kap' (I guess the policeman has never heard the way Thai people speak basic Thai with foreigners... they often do use one/two words though the policeman told me that this would never be the case...)

When I insisted that he wrote 'aoom' in the reoprt, as it was what the guy actually said, he said that if he did this the report would not sound polite.

After the attack the guy made me empty out the contrents of one pocket of my bag and demanded money from me. He said 'ow tang' (want money.) Again the police toldme that, no way would the guy say this (it's not polite...) and that he would have said 'kor tang' - please give me money, or 'kor ngern.' Again I insisted that the policeman use the actual words that the guy used. I don't know whether he did or not.

The police asked me to describe my route, and all the places that I'd stopped off at on the way (the police thought that maybe, someone in one of the villages along the way had seen me riding my bike, and had got on their motorbike and ridden to the mountaintop to wait to attack me...) From what I now know (I've seen the guy who attacked me twice in the 2 and a bit years since then. Both times at the mountain top viewpoint, with a blue motorbike and always on a mobile phone) I believe that the guy goes there as its the only place in the area with a mobile phone reception.

Anyway... I digress. There's one village on the way (one of the first after you leave the city) set back a bit from the road. There's no sign, as in a while village name sign that I can remember, but on the right hand side, theres a big archway (as far as I know its still there) and a sign in English 'Welcome to Mien.' The policeman said that there wasn't. There are no 'mein' villages in the area I was told. It was only when we drove past in the police truck, that he accepted it was. Everytime I gave him the info they asked for, the questioned what I said.

After the attack I rode my bike back home. At the time I didn't have a speedo, but I know that it was one of the fastest bike rides I've ever done. I think I went down the mountain at at last 50kmph. I didn't brake until the last 2 corners on the way down... and was back in the town and home in around an hour. The police questioned whether I could ride my bike that fast (they told me it was impossible... and even checked with other bikers in the town whether a grl could ride a bike as fast as I had said.

They also asked why, when I passed a local police station did I not stop and report the incident there. Why had I needed to go home, and go to the police station in town. (I went home - as soon as the guy had left - he drove off after taking my money. At the time I didn't pay that much attention to the direction, I had this wierd feeling that I wanted to be home, back in house I rented as soon as possible....)

It was when I was back home, that I called a friend, and my former boss. They came over, and we decided to go to the police. I was asked why I didn;t go to the local policestation (as when I rode back down the mountain I passed at least 1 police box - at that time all I thought about was getting home...) and why I had decided to wait a couple of hours (it took around an hour to get home, and another hour or so of telling the story to my friends) before going to the police staion .

A day after the story appeared in the news, the police broght a big basket of flowers to school (they wanted to bring them to my house but I refused.) They wanted to say 'sorry' for what had happened to me (though the people who said sorry were the same people who had given the story to the journalists etc...)

A couple of days later, the tourist police showed up unannounced at my school. They wanted to know exactly what had happened (they tried to bully me into repeating the story again) and compained that, as a foreigner I should have gone to them, rather than the regular police. Thankfully the other teaching staff told them that I had classes to teach and made them go away.

During this time there was only one female police officer who spoke to me. A month or so later, after being given a mass of photos and told to pick out 'a bad man' from them, I told the police (after being advised by a friend from BKK) that I couldn't remember enough about what happened to help them find the man. I don't like lying (and liars) but it seemed the only way to move on with my life. A couple of days later a female police officer showed up at school - I think she may have come from BKK I'm not sure but she didn;t speak with a local accent. She told me that it was really important that I continue helping the police with their investigations, that the guy may have attacked other people before, that Thai people who had been attacked would almost vertainly be too scraed to report him. I just said I couldn't I couldn't remember enough about what had happened to help them and she accepted that that was OK,

Like I said before I still believe that some policeman really wanted to help, I just don't think they have the cultural awareness and sensitivity to be able to. They are also very driven by rewards (at the time there was a reward for info that helped the police find my attacker.) At the time lots of people in the town were wanting the police to 'jab kon rai' 'get the evil man' too. They thought what had happened had damaged the towns reputation, and this is probably why they were wanting me to pick out a different guy,

When I described what happaned to a friend in BKK, they suggested that the police probably wanted to arrest a man for drugs etc. or something where they couldn't pin down an exact charge. Accusing him of attacking me (and trying to say that my memory was bad etc... that I didn;t remember all the details etc..) would have probably given them the excuse the needed to arrest him.

Lots of people told me that my attacker was a hilltribe guy (almost certainly true... from what I now know) and that they were bringing shame on the town and the province, and that city people weren't like that. City people. I was told are good and dont do things like that. Again - cultural differences - whilst westerners see hilltribes as exotic some Thai townspeople have very negative/prejudiced attitudes towards them.

Hey, just realised that I've been typing for well over an hour and that this is becoming very very long... I'll try and cut it short.

I was 'lucky... you very lucky', (as thai people kept telling me afterwards...) as I wasn't raped but, after the way the Thai police handled my case I would never, ever, ever recommend that anyone who does suffer a sexual attact go to them, and think that Thai girls who do (given the differences in culture etc, and the differences in the way rape/sexual crimes are percieved in Thailand) are very very very brave and I admire them a lot. And, rape is always nasty but when Thai girls are raped its usually a lot nastier than back home (in that Thai girls are often gang raped.)

I wasn't brave enough to follow through with all (though my case was a bit different, in that the local police were trying to get me to identify a different guy to the one who actually carried out the attack and, when I refused a couple of weeks later, gave ) but for someone to point out the man that attacker her (given that there will be no anonyminity.... sure there is supposed to be, but when journalists/relatives of the accused are waiting in the police station for you arrive, and when, outside of places like Bangkok, news / gossip travels fast and retribution for the accusations etc. can be quite nasty.

Occasionally (though not often enough) Thai guys are brought to trial for rape, and sucessfully prosecuted... To the girls who are strong and brave enough to identify their accusers, and make it happen, I have so much respect.