Red Shirt Leaders Demand Release Of Colleagues

[Lite Beer]

‘Red Shirt’ leaders demand release of colleagues

BANGKOK, Feb 27 -- Seven key leaders of the anti-government movement of the United Front for Democracy against Dictatorship (UDD) released last week on Sunday demanded the release on bail of their colleagues who now remain in jail in the Thai capital and upcountry following a security operation that ended their mass protests about 10 months ago.

Natthawut Saikua, one of the UDD seven core leaders who were released last Tuesday on condition that they must not leave the country or incite their supporters to cause unrest, said his movement would this week start finding ways to assist their imprisoned colleagues by coordinating with the Justice Ministry’s Rights and Liberties Protection Department in releasing them on bail.

Mr Natthawut said he and other released UDD core leaders who were jailed on terrorism charges would ask their lawyer to file counter charges against government agencies which had charged them, as they believed the charges against them were unfair while prospects for trial also looked dubious.

Several key UDD leaders and supporters were jailed on terrorism charges following the security operation last May 19 which ended their protest demanding the ouster of Prime Minister Abhisit Vejjajiva's government.

Demanding the government clarify the events of last May, Mr Natthawut said it is still haunting UDD members and many citizens.

Mr Natthawut, along with six just released UDD core leaders and several members of the opposition Puea Thai Party on Sunday, attended a Buddhist religious ceremony at a Buddhist temple and paid respect for those killed during last April and May incidents.

Stressing that his group would continue to fight for justice and are not worried about a general election due to be held later this year, Mr Natthawut said he hoped the ruling Democrat Party, led by Mr Abhisit, and supporters of the current government would accept the outcome of the election in case it was defeated.

He said the prime minister must announce explicitly that he would accept the outcome of the upcoming election in case he lost and that no power would intervene. The military should also say that everything would end after the election.

“If every concerned party accept [outcome of the election], then we are moving in the right direction towards democracy,” he said. (MCOT online news)

-- TNA 2011-02-27

[whybother]

his movement would this week start finding ways to assist their imprisoned colleagues by coordinating with the Justice Ministry’s Rights and Liberties Protection Department in releasing them on bail.

Is it only the leaders that can do this? Why didn't the red shirts start doing this 6 months ago?

[Buchholz]

his movement would this week start finding ways to assist their imprisoned colleagues by coordinating with the Justice Ministry’s Rights and Liberties Protection Department in releasing them on bail.

Is it only the leaders that can do this? Why didn't the red shirts start doing this 6 months ago?

Because the Red Shirt Leaders were entirely focused on securing release for the Red Shirt Leaders and the lower echelon Red Shirts were left to fend for themselves, until the government that the lower echelon Red Shirts were trying to overthrow began working for the release of the lower echelon Red Shirts.

Now that the Red Shirt Leaders have obtained their own release, they can lambaste the government, which have been working for months to secure the release of the lower echelon Red Shirts.

Bail money and resources have been extended to the lower echelon Red Shirts by the very government they sought to throw out.... while their own Red Shirt Leaders were repeatedly offering millions and millions, in cash, to secure only their own Red Shirt Leaders release.

That the Red Shirt Leaders are only now demanding the release of the lower echelon Red Shirts is the height of absurdity when for months and months they've completed ignored their plight and selfishly focused only on their own.

For the Red Shirt Leaders to now call these lower echelon Red Shirts "comrades" is a slap in their face whereby their own actions has repeatedly shown that they are viewed as nothing more than expendable worker bees by the Red Shirt leadership.

.

Edited February 27, 2011 by Buchholz

[animatic]

his movement would this week start finding ways to assist their imprisoned colleagues by coordinating with the Justice Ministry's Rights and Liberties Protection Department in releasing them on bail.

Is it only the leaders that can do this? Why didn't the red shirts start doing this 6 months ago?

Because the Red Shirt Leaders were entirely focused on securing release for the Red Shirt Leaders and the lower echelon Red Shirts were left to fend for themselves, until the government that the lower echelon Red Shirts were trying to overthrow began working for the release of the lower echelon Red Shirts.

Now that the Red Shirt Leaders have obtained their own release, they can lambaste the government, which have been working for months to secure the release of the lower echelon Red Shirts.

Bail money and resources have been extended to the lower echelon Red Shirts by the very government they sought to throw out.... while their own Red Shirt Leaders were repeatedly offering millions and millions, in cash, to secure only their own Red Shirt Leaders release.

That the Red Shirt Leaders are only now demanding the release of the lower echelon Red Shirts is the height of absurdity when for months and months they've completed ignored their plight and selfishly focused only on their own.

For the Red Shirt Leaders to now call these lower echelon Red Shirts "comrades" is a slap in their face whereby their own actions has repeatedly shown that they are viewed as nothing more than expendable worker bees by the Red Shirt leadership.

.

They seem to want to become the

Dictionary definition of Hypocrisy.

After we save our own asses, we can then save the little fish, if it gives political advantage. If not, same same all over again.

Edited February 27, 2011 by animatic

[473geo]

Now that the Red Shirt Leaders have obtained their own release, they can lambaste the government, which have been working for months to secure the release of the lower echelon Red Shirts.

Bail money and resources have been extended to the lower echelon Red Shirts by the very government they sought to throw out....

Well the red shirts appear to have secured the release of their leaders, before the sympathetic government have achieved the release of the 'lower echelon' who I believe are still incarcerated? Otherwise the red leaders would not now have to turn their attention to their comrades? Perhaps they will have a little more success?

That would appear to be the conclusion to draw from your comment?

Edited February 27, 2011 by 473geo

[UberBraun]

'He said the prime minister must announce explicitly that he would accept the outcome of the upcoming election in case he lost and that no power would intervene. The military should also say that everything would end after the election.

“If every concerned party accept [outcome of the election], then we are moving in the right direction towards democracy,” he said. (MCOT online news)'

Perhaps the Puea Thai and the Red Shirt leaders should do likewise, and very publicly.

[rubl]

From the OP:

Demanding the government clarify the events of last May, Mr Natthawut said it is still haunting UDD members and many citizens.

Maybe k. Natthawut should have asked for 'a clarification of all violence during the March - May protests'. It's still haunting citizens who were terrorised by grenade attacks, and by many who joined the red-shirt protests including a few UDD members

[hyperdimension]

Again, we have one demand after another.

They will never be satisfied, and therefore will continually come up with new excuses to protest, until Thaksin is pardoned and back into power.

[473geo]

Again, we have one demand after another.

They will never be satisfied, and therefore will continually come up with new excuses to protest, until Thaksin is pardoned and back into power.

Is 1 year of incarceration without trial, or offer of bail, not worthy of protest?

[Buchholz]

Now that the Red Shirt Leaders have obtained their own release, they can lambaste the government, which have been working for months to secure the release of the lower echelon Red Shirts.

Bail money and resources have been extended to the lower echelon Red Shirts by the very government they sought to throw out....

Well the red shirts appear to have secured the release of their leaders, before the sympathetic government have achieved the release of the 'lower echelon' who I believe are still incarcerated? Otherwise the red leaders would not now have to turn their attention to their comrades? Perhaps they will have a little more success?

That would appear to be the conclusion to draw from your comment?

The Red Shirts didn't secure the release of the Red Shirt Leaders, the Red Shirt Leaders did.

The government that the Red Shirts tried to overthrow did secure the release of quite a few of the lower echelon Red Shirts by supplying the legal representatives and bail money for them to be freed while awaiting charges.

This occurred while the Red Shirt Leaders made no observable effort to help their "comrades" for months with either legal representation nor bail money.

Much of that issue is covered in the months-old and very aptly titled thread:

Many red shirts 'abandoned' by their leaders

Dozens of impoverished red shirts detained since the May 19 dispersal of the red shirts' protest have been "virtually abandoned" with no visitors and some without defence lawyers, revealed Nitirat Sapsoomboon, a member of the National Human Rights Commission's subcommittee on citizen and political rights.

At least 10 of them are women and Nitirat said red-shirt leaders and members should visit them and afford them with legal assistance.

Posted 2010-08-08

The government has not obtained the release for all of the lower echelon Red Shirts, mainly those facing serious arson charges for destroying a number of upcountry provincial halls.

"Demanding" the release of those caught red-handed setting fires will likely and justifiably be dismissed by the courts. The efforts by the Red Shirt Leaders now is disingenuous and hypocritical.

.

[Buchholz]

Again, we have one demand after another.

They will never be satisfied, and therefore will continually come up with new excuses to protest, until Thaksin is pardoned and back into power.

And even then they would be protesting for the return of his confiscated ill-gotten wealth.

Then the pardoning of Potjaman and her brother.

Followed by a laundry list of other absurdities.

[jdinasia]

Again, we have one demand after another.

They will never be satisfied, and therefore will continually come up with new excuses to protest, until Thaksin is pardoned and back into power.

Is 1 year of incarceration without trial, or offer of bail, not worthy of protest?

Assuming you mean this (it hasn't been a year yet --- but hey!) ..... no it isn't worthy of protest.

[473geo]

Now that the Red Shirt Leaders have obtained their own release, they can lambaste the government, which have been working for months to secure the release of the lower echelon Red Shirts.

Bail money and resources have been extended to the lower echelon Red Shirts by the very government they sought to throw out....

Well the red shirts appear to have secured the release of their leaders, before the sympathetic government have achieved the release of the 'lower echelon' who I believe are still incarcerated? Otherwise the red leaders would not now have to turn their attention to their comrades? Perhaps they will have a little more success?

That would appear to be the conclusion to draw from your comment?

The Red Shirts didn't secure the release of the Red Shirt Leaders, the Red Shirt Leaders did.

The government that the Red Shirts tried to overthrow did secure the release of quite a few of the lower echelon Red Shirts by supplying the legal representatives and bail money for them to be freed while awaiting charges.

This occurred while the Red Shirt Leaders made no observable effort to help their "comrades" for months with either legal representation nor bail money.

Much of that issue is covered in the months-old and very aptly titled thread:

Many red shirts 'abandoned' by their leaders

Dozens of impoverished red shirts detained since the May 19 dispersal of the red shirts' protest have been "virtually abandoned" with no visitors and some without defence lawyers, revealed Nitirat Sapsoomboon, a member of the National Human Rights Commission's subcommittee on citizen and political rights.

At least 10 of them are women and Nitirat said red-shirt leaders and members should visit them and afford them with legal assistance.

Posted 2010-08-08

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__3802012

The government has not obtained the release for all of the lower echelon Red Shirts, mainly those facing serious arson charges for destroying a number of upcountry provincial halls.

"Demanding" the release of those caught red-handed setting fires will likely and justifiably be dismissed by the courts. The efforts by the Red Shirt Leaders now is disingenuous and hypocritical.

.

There are people imprisioned for a long period of time and not yet proven to be guilty of a crime.........you condone this.......your principles not mine

Just how long does it take to establish a genuine case and prosecute?........"red handed for arson"...well how long to bring a case?

[jdinasia]

There are people all over the world imprisoned awaiting trial. They get bail hearings and bail gets denied or they don't have the $$ to post an assurance. SOP in most places. When the charges are minor they should get out on time served if they don't get to trial, or should be offered OR. When the charges are mixed with weapons possession and terrorism , conspiracy, incitement I don't think bail should EVER be an option. They rot until the trial. If they can prove that it was malicious prosecution they have both criminal and civil means to seek redress in Thailand.

[473geo]

Again, we have one demand after another.

They will never be satisfied, and therefore will continually come up with new excuses to protest, until Thaksin is pardoned and back into power.

Is 1 year of incarceration without trial, or offer of bail, not worthy of protest?

Assuming you mean this (it hasn't been a year yet --- but hey!) ..... no it isn't worthy of protest.

Condoning the act of confining potentially innocent people, and then nit picking because the confinement period is a little overstated........I rest my case........made in 4 posts......perhaps I should be working for the government?........

[Buchholz]

Now that the Red Shirt Leaders have obtained their own release, they can lambaste the government, which have been working for months to secure the release of the lower echelon Red Shirts.

Bail money and resources have been extended to the lower echelon Red Shirts by the very government they sought to throw out....

Well the red shirts appear to have secured the release of their leaders, before the sympathetic government have achieved the release of the 'lower echelon' who I believe are still incarcerated? Otherwise the red leaders would not now have to turn their attention to their comrades? Perhaps they will have a little more success?

That would appear to be the conclusion to draw from your comment?

The Red Shirts didn't secure the release of the Red Shirt Leaders, the Red Shirt Leaders did.

The government that the Red Shirts tried to overthrow did secure the release of quite a few of the lower echelon Red Shirts by supplying the legal representatives and bail money for them to be freed while awaiting charges.

This occurred while the Red Shirt Leaders made no observable effort to help their "comrades" for months with either legal representation nor bail money.

Much of that issue is covered in the months-old and very aptly titled thread:

Many red shirts 'abandoned' by their leaders

Dozens of impoverished red shirts detained since the May 19 dispersal of the red shirts' protest have been "virtually abandoned" with no visitors and some without defence lawyers, revealed Nitirat Sapsoomboon, a member of the National Human Rights Commission's subcommittee on citizen and political rights.

At least 10 of them are women and Nitirat said red-shirt leaders and members should visit them and afford them with legal assistance.

Posted 2010-08-08

http://www.thaivisa....ost__p__3802012

The government has not obtained the release for all of the lower echelon Red Shirts, mainly those facing serious arson charges for destroying a number of upcountry provincial halls.

"Demanding" the release of those caught red-handed setting fires will likely and justifiably be dismissed by the courts. The efforts by the Red Shirt Leaders now is disingenuous and hypocritical.

.

There are people imprisioned for a long period of time and not yet proven to be guilty of a crime.........you condone this.......your principles not mine

Just how long does it take to establish a genuine case and prosecute?........"red handed for arson"...well how long to bring a case?

Timing of court proceedings is in the hands of the courts, not the government. Courts are not an entity to making demands of.

Some times, these court proceedings take an inordinate amount of time. For example, one might ask why the Red Shirt Leaders haven't had their July 2007 riot case processed yet.

Or why Potjaman is still free on bail despite having been convicted and sentenced 30 months ago.

[473geo]

Perhaps there is the issue of creating a dangerous legal precedent?

[Buchholz]

Granting bail to terrorism suspects is a legal precedent, however lengthy court proceedings are nothing new.

[jdinasia]

Perhaps there is the issue of creating a dangerous legal precedent?

Legal precedent doesn't apply in Thailand. no court has to defer to the rulings of another court.

Again, most have had bail hearings and bail has been denied. There is always the risk in ANY legal situation that someone innocent is incarcerated awaiting trial in any country. If the incarceration of the red minions bothers you, perhaps you should ask why the reds haven't helped them. The government offered and was in many cases refused.

Still, the folks in jail have very little to complain about given the severity of charges. so the answer is still NO .. and overstated by almost 25% isn't a little overstated

[jayjay0]

Again, we have one demand after another.

They will never be satisfied, and therefore will continually come up with new excuses to protest, until Thaksin is pardoned and back into power.

Is 1 year of incarceration without trial, or offer of bail, not worthy of protest?

In there case no.

And there leader should be in there with them giving them money oops I meant moral support. Because there is a legal system they are out on bail. If there was a justice system they would be sentenced to death. But justice is not one of there demands wonder why.

[rubl]

There are people imprisioned for a long period of time and not yet proven to be guilty of a crime.........you condone this.......your principles not mine

Just how long does it take to establish a genuine case and prosecute?........"red handed for arson"...well how long to bring a case?

The UDD leaders imprisoned have nothing (legally) proven against them. Correct. Mind you after some speeches recorded for prosperity where they vouched to 'fight till our last drop of blood' they surrendered. I must admit I find it hard not to condone their incarceration, IMHO they asked for it.

As for how long it takes, ah good question. I guess it depends on the current workload of the courts. With every fool and his cousin filing lawsuits thing make take a while (even without the 'Rome wasn't build in a day', etc., etc. bullsh1t). The 'red-handed' arson is a flaming disgrace of course, literally and hot on the trail. So how long to bring the case? We first need to have some discussions on things which happened four, five, six years ago