Which Land Based Business To Generate 3-4M Per Year ?

[SGD]

Looking at a long term horizon and living with a business in Thailand, I wanted to reverse the " I have 20 rai of XYZ and what can I do with it" scenario and see what land resources I would need to have to generate a profit of 3-4m baht per year. Perhaps that is unrealistic without far too much investment (significant investment is available however).

If an idea could be made to work, it would be managed rather than having me digging up the ground so to speak. I would probably envisage permanent Thai staff and perhaps seasonal works as well. The lower the risk the better, a lead in time is fine (such as I see with rubber for instance) and time would be needed for research and education. The long term viability for income and then family business is paramount.

As to where or what, then we are open to ideas. Perhaps a multi facet business with differing income streams would be better ? I don't know. At the moment, this potential idea is very much in its infancy and we need ideas to go with those we currently have.

[David006]

LOL...admire your optimist attitude mate...can't wait to see any more helpful responses ...250k+ baht per month net?....Lots of us spouse/gf's land owners would like to know THAT secret I suspect..

did the "M" stand for Mangosteens,Mars Bars or Miracles perhaps....

good luck...gotta be worth a try....

[grimleybob]

Question

"Looking at a long term horizon and living with a business in Thailand, I wanted to reverse the " I have 20 rai of XYZ and what can I do with it" scenario and see what land resources I would need to have to generate a profit of 3-4m baht per year"

Answer

Sisaket Province

[slapout]

The fellow who mentioned a 10 rai lamyai farm (belonging to his in laws)would fit what the op is hoping for. He also better hope no one was telling porkies about the quantity of harvest and price received for them.

[GilleThai]

1800 rai of Eucalyptus would do it If you buy good land.....

[joker7]

300-400 Rai of Sugarcane might do it.

at 35,000 baht / Rai your talking investing $450,000 to buy the land.

[billd766]

300-400 Rai of Sugarcane might do it.

at 35,000 baht / Rai your talking investing $450,000 to buy the land.

Always assuming that you are allowed to buy the land in the first place.

[PoorSucker]

20 rai of beach front property?

20 rai of dry rice paddies?

20 rai of swamp?

20 rai of best quality farm land with water year around?

[tim armstrong]

Building a small village of student housing maybe 100 rooms outside a major regional university would do it. You could add a karaoke bar, and some short time rooms as well.

If you cornered the countries' saffron market and there were no windstorms, the weather was good etc, and thais didn't mind you doing it that would work.

But short answer, unless you have a lot of land and do things on a big scale, agriculture in most countries including Thailand, has been compared to yachting - you just keep on pouring the money in, until it runs out.

[Foreverford]

1800 rai of Eucalyptus would do it If you buy good land.....

that would rape the land and no profit would justify it

[Foreverford]

diversify and take a look at the organic side to see what afew small project failures and successes were like at that end. You definitely need some kind of "niche" as Issan Aussie says to make it nowdays. If you don't seell at your front door today then i think your chances ofr success are going to be much much more difficult. Mnay rubber farmers were crying a few years back and definitely wanting tp and cutting down their trees because they weren't gettting the money they needed. about 4 years ago the mangosteen cropp was so so good that the growers could not afford to pay their good labor to go in and pick because the crop was so good that the price was too low to be able to pay the labor. diversify diversify find some niches and light the josh sticks that you can find good labor because without a few good guys on your side working for and with you it will always be a dream. In business I always found it was very simple to be successful in a one man operation. The one man fam operation makes folk very old and generally very poor at the same time. Diversify but before ever spending a penny just get two or three laborers and pay them a great wage and benefits and see if you can keep three guys coming to work 5 days a week yeah it's supposed to be five but what da hay just try it. Pour some concrete sharpen some tools get a few buckets of greaswe and some minor pieces of equipment organize and play around and if they show up and work well for you then all the things that youy will learn about economics and chemisrty and agriculture and mechanics and hydruaulics and vet issues will be of great vallue when you start o look for a future siteo r sites to keeep these three guys still working for you happy as bugs in rugs. if you find that maybe it isn't too easy to deal with good permaneth labor then all the money that you have spent is more than like gold in the bank since you will have the 100+ million baht still in the bank that it nwould take to be able to create a viable scenario to the one you are proposing.

Has anyone out their been able to have actual cash in the pocket profits of 50 million baht for the last 12 years of their farm operations??

We will wait to see if we get any replies to the last question but again there is a chance, I believe that someone with a decent amount of money for start up may be able to find a niche and with a very very diversified operation and hoperffully a 'front door on site" abiltity to market some things will be able to make a living at farming again. Organic is the way that I intend to attempt it. Chike Dee and when you finally make the plunge if you end up with no more than an old Ford tractor to show for it all you're all right in my book old fords and old farmers forever

[gotlost]

and you thank were going to tell you? Were going to do it first.

[grimleybob]

If you havn't got the innovative mind to think of something yourself , you aint going to make it!

[Rogerde]

It can be done I have almost done it. It is for sure a long term project and you will have to upfront 15,000,000 Baht but the long term gains are worth it.

I done it like this, in the UK I have contacts in the furniture business so I decided to build a factory in Thailand so far the journey has been very very demanding, but nothing in life that’s worthwhile is ever easy.

I bought land (paddy field) in my wife’s name and had her sign over a 30 lease to me, on this land I have built a 5600 sq ft factory with space left over for a further 30,000 sq ft if we grow. I have bought panel saws, power presses, compressors, pipe bender, degreasers, ovens and lots besides.

I decided not to outsource any fabricated components only raw materials so I can control the quality of all products leaving this factory.

The one resource that is abundant here in Issan Thailand is skilled workers at low wages, plus most raw materials are a lot less over here than in Europe.

We have just received our first 3 orders and have started production, there is still a further 2-3 years of learning curve to go through before things will run smoothly.

So to answer your question yes it is possible and 3-4 million is more than achievable on 20 Rai but this way is not land based.

[jamescollister]

It can be done I have almost done it. It is for sure a long term project and you will have to upfront 15,000,000 Baht but the long term gains are worth it.

I done it like this, in the UK I have contacts in the furniture business so I decided to build a factory in Thailand so far the journey has been very very demanding, but nothing in life that’s worthwhile is ever easy.

I bought land (paddy field) in my wife’s name and had her sign over a 30 lease to me, on this land I have built a 5600 sq ft factory with space left over for a further 30,000 sq ft if we grow. I have bought panel saws, power presses, compressors, pipe bender, degreasers, ovens and lots besides.

I decided not to outsource any fabricated components only raw materials so I can control the quality of all products leaving this factory.

The one resource that is abundant here in Issan Thailand is skilled workers at low wages, plus most raw materials are a lot less over here than in Europe.

We have just received our first 3 orders and have started production, there is still a further 2-3 years of learning curve to go through before things will run smoothly.

So to answer your question yes it is possible and 3-4 million is more than achievable on 20 Rai but this way is not land based.

Hi there Rogerde

Sounds an interesting project. You say you build your factory on rice paddy land, how did you obtain permission to do it. When I built my small rubber processing factory in rural issan we had a long expensive process in getting National industrial title. This included EPA and if you can believe it health and safety inspections. Once permission was granted we were allowed to trade. It was my understanding that with out this licence they [ the government ] could at any time come and bulldozer the place down. I know that the rubber industry is regulated more so than many other industries. So my question is what did you have to get ie planning permission etc for a furniture factory. Like many out here I am always on the look out for another way to turn a profit. Jim

[Foreverford]

Hey SGD buddy fellow what's the game man? you put it out there and a bunch of us try to dial you in one way or another and not a peep or word in response. Hayek when I put something out to "Stir it Up" I straight out tell everybody this is just food for thought. You talking about our life here and we are sharing it with you and a little respect would be at least a short response to the many of questions that others have requested of yo u in regards to what you want. If in fact you have 100-200 Million to invest there are ways that many here can try to guide you to what you may need to start studying. But be assured the real farmers in the bunch (dirt and grease under their fingernails and maybe an assorted knuckle ripped off or at least not infected and recovering) are going to say do your homework and start studying your info. Well big boy it appears you might not want to be doing your homework here and your lack of response says it's probably tinme to shine you on just tlike bunches of other real estate optimists that have wasted our time and energy (yeah try to find me responding to something simioar returning from Obama's inauguration in Kenya and gettting another fellow looking to try to put under a small farm landowner and get his plot so he could speculate on the real estate all in the guise (is that correct? screw wikepedia) of saying he wants to farm. I was not in a good frame of mind and he did not receive a cordial response but after the outrage that was thrown back at me by members I finally came around and suggested a plan whereby he could start towards self-sufficiency and follow his desire to farm. Ha ha ha ha on me and you; days later the fellow straight up posts that he really wants a piece that he knows he can sell a few years later and make a good profit. A pure speculator and not a bone of a farmer anywhere in his body).

There's a fellow suggesting you make a furniture factory or whatever else destruction of farm land to achieve some kind of profit from the "land"? I know you said you wanted 3-4 million ( I believe the assistant to the mayor of Bangkok makes close to 1/2 million in salary a year) and a suggestion of 1800 rai of Eucalyptus is nearly as radical an idea as cutting down rain forest as the land will become a barren waste but I think the initial investment of probably near 500 million is out of the ball park if in fact this will return 3-5 million yearly on average over the next 15-20 years.

So SGD are you real? or are you just here trying to " stir it up" and waste time and energy while laughing at helpful folks with good intentions?

[Foreverford]

Hey SGD buddy fellow what's the game man? you put it out there and a bunch of us try to dial you in one way or another and not a peep or word in response. Hayek when I put something out to "Stir it Up" I straight out tell everybody this is just food for thought. You talking about our life here and we are sharing it with you and a little respect would be at least a short response to the many of questions that others have requested of yo u in regards to what you want. If in fact you have 100-200 Million to invest there are ways that many here can try to guide you to what you may need to start studying. But be assured the real farmers in the bunch (dirt and grease under their fingernails and maybe an assorted knuckle ripped off or at least not infected and recovering) are going to say do your homework and start studying your info. Well big boy it appears you might not want to be doing your homework here and your lack of response says it's probably tinme to shine you on just tlike bunches of other real estate optimists that have wasted our time and energy (yeah try to find me responding to something simioar returning from Obama's inauguration in Kenya and gettting another fellow looking to try to put under a small farm landowner and get his plot so he could speculate on the real estate all in the guise (is that correct? screw wikepedia) of saying he wants to farm. I was not in a good frame of mind and he did not receive a cordial response but after the outrage that was thrown back at me by members I finally came around and suggested a plan whereby he could start towards self-sufficiency and follow his desire to farm. Ha ha ha ha on me and you; days later the fellow straight up posts that he really wants a piece that he knows he can sell a few years later and make a good profit. A pure speculator and not a bone of a farmer anywhere in his body).

There's a fellow suggesting you make a furniture factory or whatever else destruction of farm land to achieve some kind of profit from the "land"? I know you said you wanted 3-4 million ( I believe the assistant to the mayor of Bangkok makes close to 1/2 million in salary a year) and a suggestion of 1800 rai of Eucalyptus is nearly as radical an idea as cutting down rain forest as the land will become a barren waste but I think the initial investment of probably near 500 million is out of the ball park if in fact this will return 3-5 million yearly on average over the next 15-20 years.

So SGD are you real? or are you just here trying to " stir it up" and waste time and energy while laughing at helpful folks with good intentions?

my apologies on the last post as i reread what you originally put out and you did sort of say this is a bit of "stir it up" so again I was a bit over the top with my last response but still it would be interesting to see what you feel from what people have put out so far

[Rogerde]

It can be done I have almost done it. It is for sure a long term project and you will have to upfront 15,000,000 Baht but the long term gains are worth it.

I done it like this, in the UK I have contacts in the furniture business so I decided to build a factory in Thailand so far the journey has been very very demanding, but nothing in life that's worthwhile is ever easy.

I bought land (paddy field) in my wife's name and had her sign over a 30 lease to me, on this land I have built a 5600 sq ft factory with space left over for a further 30,000 sq ft if we grow. I have bought panel saws, power presses, compressors, pipe bender, degreasers, ovens and lots besides.

I decided not to outsource any fabricated components only raw materials so I can control the quality of all products leaving this factory.

The one resource that is abundant here in Issan Thailand is skilled workers at low wages, plus most raw materials are a lot less over here than in Europe.

We have just received our first 3 orders and have started production, there is still a further 2-3 years of learning curve to go through before things will run smoothly.

So to answer your question yes it is possible and 3-4 million is more than achievable on 20 Rai but this way is not land based.

Hi there Rogerde

Sounds an interesting project. You say you build your factory on rice paddy land, how did you obtain permission to do it. When I built my small rubber processing factory in rural issan we had a long expensive process in getting National industrial title. This included EPA and if you can believe it health and safety inspections. Once permission was granted we were allowed to trade. It was my understanding that with out this licence they [ the government ] could at any time come and bulldozer the place down. I know that the rubber industry is regulated more so than many other industries. So my question is what did you have to get ie planning permission etc for a furniture factory. Like many out here I am always on the look out for another way to turn a profit. Jim

Hi Jim, yes it’s rural Issan, I don’t know about rubber trees (planning permission) but when we approached the appropriate government department they were very helpful and whilst it was not straight forward its wasn’t difficult either. We required the permission of both the local village and town planning departments, as well as the factory development officer, all of which had to go the Bangkok for final approval.

The drawings had to be approved and verified by structural engineers but that’s normal everywhere, as I say the normal red tape but nothing more.

[brahmburgers]

Most farang who invest in trying to do business in Thailand, wind up spending and spending - and perhaps make a little return. I say 'most' not 'all'. Some do well, and some don't even get their laundry paid for. the odds are about the same as with MLM.

Another factor: if you try to get something going that Thais don't relate to, then it's likely you're catering to farang only, if that. Example: a juice bar with smoothies. Ok, in the case of large tract of land, you'd either grow some crop that Thais relate to, in that case you don't get much return (because many other Thais grow the same thing), or you try growing something farang can relate to, and then you'd have to have a spiffy marketing campaign and/or some great connection for off-loading your crop.

I've found, in a quarter century visiting Thailand, that Thais are slow to catching on to a new thing, and all the while are very tight with how they spend - unless it's for things that carry a prestige factor, like a new car or an ostentatious house by a busy road - to impress others. They'll spend a lot on things to impress, then go to the 25 baht rice soup food stall, because they save 5 baht by not going to the 30 baht place next door which has a lot better food.

[Foreverford]

Most farang who invest in trying to do business in Thailand, wind up spending and spending - and perhaps make a little return. I say 'most' not 'all'. Some do well, and some don't even get their laundry paid for. the odds are about the same as with MLM.

Another factor: if you try to get something going that Thais don't relate to, then it's likely you're catering to farang only, if that. Example: a juice bar with smoothies. Ok, in the case of large tract of land, you'd either grow some crop that Thais relate to, in that case you don't get much return (because many other Thais grow the same thing), or you try growing something farang can relate to, and then you'd have to have a spiffy marketing campaign and/or some great connection for off-loading your crop.

I've found, in a quarter century visiting Thailand, that Thais are slow to catching on to a new thing, and all the while are very tight with how they spend - unless it's for things that carry a prestige factor, like a new car or an ostentatious house by a busy road - to impress others. They'll spend a lot on things to impress, then go to the 25 baht rice soup food stall, because they save 5 baht by not going to the 30 baht place next door which has a lot better food.

A niche as Issan Aussie talks about as being one of the true chances to work out some profit from farming here in LOS. Rog try to think towards the Kings thoughts of Sustainability in your factory. Start planting trees to be used in your furniture building. Can your woodstock become completely farm grown trees? organically grown in ten or less years? It's very possible, I got an idea the day we started scatterring the bones of ol Fruity as I observed some hardwood indigenous Issan trees he had started and it looks like seven years may too long to keeep them in the ground, that is beyond fast and they look laser straight. He only had a couple and I hope that they grow to the heavens to pay him a visit but I know a few folks that have a few waiting to go in the ground at it will be fun to slab up a few in a few years and see how they dry in a kiln and outside in the dry season. Quite a remarkable thing and it's got me excited the secret now will be learning a good way to propogate. buck em up and drag em out in ya ol Ford Tractor Forever

[jamescollister]

It can be done I have almost done it. It is for sure a long term project and you will have to upfront 15,000,000 Baht but the long term gains are worth it.

I done it like this, in the UK I have contacts in the furniture business so I decided to build a factory in Thailand so far the journey has been very very demanding, but nothing in life that's worthwhile is ever easy.

I bought land (paddy field) in my wife's name and had her sign over a 30 lease to me, on this land I have built a 5600 sq ft factory with space left over for a further 30,000 sq ft if we grow. I have bought panel saws, power presses, compressors, pipe bender, degreasers, ovens and lots besides.

I decided not to outsource any fabricated components only raw materials so I can control the quality of all products leaving this factory.

The one resource that is abundant here in Issan Thailand is skilled workers at low wages, plus most raw materials are a lot less over here than in Europe.

We have just received our first 3 orders and have started production, there is still a further 2-3 years of learning curve to go through before things will run smoothly.

So to answer your question yes it is possible and 3-4 million is more than achievable on 20 Rai but this way is not land based.

Hi there Rogerde

Sounds an interesting project. You say you build your factory on rice paddy land, how did you obtain permission to do it. When I built my small rubber processing factory in rural issan we had a long expensive process in getting National industrial title. This included EPA and if you can believe it health and safety inspections. Once permission was granted we were allowed to trade. It was my understanding that with out this licence they [ the government ] could at any time come and bulldozer the place down. I know that the rubber industry is regulated more so than many other industries. So my question is what did you have to get ie planning permission etc for a furniture factory. Like many out here I am always on the look out for another way to turn a profit. Jim

Hi Jim, yes it’s rural Issan, I don’t know about rubber trees (planning permission) but when we approached the appropriate government department they were very helpful and whilst it was not straight forward its wasn’t difficult either. We required the permission of both the local village and town planning departments, as well as the factory development officer, all of which had to go the Bangkok for final approval.

The drawings had to be approved and verified by structural engineers but that’s normal everywhere, as I say the normal red tape but nothing more.

Good to hear you have followed the rules and dotted the I's and crossed the tees. Think in our case the exta hassle is due to needing a licence for the buying and processing of rubber and it appears that they don't issue many. Anyway where about in Issan are you located as I would love to drop in and have a look some time and ask a few questions.

As I have said on previous posts anyone is welcome to come and have a look at our factory and plantations as long as they bring beer. Jim

[brahmburgers]

.....anyone is welcome to come and have a look at our factory and plantations as long as they bring beer. Jim

hope you're not drinking fermented sugars while operating heavy machinery.

[jamescollister]

.....anyone is welcome to come and have a look at our factory and plantations as long as they bring beer. Jim

hope you're not drinking fermented sugars while operating heavy machinery.

If I wanted to work I would still be in OZ. A hard day for me is having to walk to the shop for more beer. Jim

[SGD]

There are a number of ways to earn that amount of money for relatively easy management. Why do people not do it ? largely because they do not have the money and those who have the money are retired and more still have agreed a budget with themselves which sees them living on their current income. My quandary is that I would like to step out from the rate race sooner rather than later and I would like options on how to generate that level of income over a long period of time and also provide a financial legacy for my family outside of my other assets. A land based business may be one way to go, or not !

I'm obviously not going to invest 100m+ to generate 3m or 4m a year. That would be madness even if I had multi millions of dollars. There is and will be money available but the numbers have to stack up. In contrast, viable opportunities are easily available to set up a business generating a 4m profit for around the 12-20m mark.

My idea was to investigate whether sufficient capital and modern technology could deliver a return on a scale which was perhaps not available to the average Thai land owner. I'm not on about upscaling subsistence farming per se but perhaps there is a business which can make 100k on X amount of land but which can be scaled up to provide 4m on 40X and hopefully on less than 40X due to economies of scale. The question is whether such a business can be set up for a reasonable sum.

[IsaanAussie]

SGD,

Foreverford mentioned my theory of diversification. Here I see it as a viable way to increase the normal subsistence level income to at least modest levels. The issue here is most people are monocrop farming one or two crops per year. Buy seed and fertiliser, harvest and sell. Rearing animals is the same process, buy or breed, rear then sell at market rate. It is all very controllable by the corporate entities which now govern the costs and the prices. Little if any linkage exists between elements of most farms, hence little can be done to become more self sufficient and less reliant on buying retail priced inputs while selling wholesale priced outputs.

For example, I have adopted the attitude that farms do not generate wastes, they generate useful byproducts. I compost all manure, rice straw and hulls. I grow water lettuce to purify waste water with the lettuce feeding the pigs and being composted. Currently I make as much money selling the compost generated from the pig excretions as I do by selling the pigs that produce it. I feed cow manures to the worms and sell the worm castings at a much higher rate than I would selling the original product.

So for my bahts worth, my advice would be to invest in organic products such as compost, fertilisers, soil drenches, compost teas, worm castings, pest control and folar sprays. The impact of chemical fertilisers must be reversed and the cost of those chemicals is too high to allow a reasonable return. The market is awakening and it will grow rapidly. Initial investment is small and input cost is mostly labour. I have proven that local farmers will use quality products if they are available at the right price. Further that the income contributes significantly towards paying for external inputs.

If I had just a few percent of the money being talked about on this thread, thats where it would go. Develop the market for organic materials.

Isaan Aussie

[Gary A]

I have lived in Issan for about 7 years now. My wife works her little butt off to make peanuts off farming a little more than 20 rai. Anything to do with farming is subsistence at best.

That said, I think if you have the investment money available to make 3 million baht per year, you already have enough to retire on. Unfortunately the rich get richer and the farmers just scrape by. If you are connected and have enough money to become a middle man, you can become VERY wealthy. A farang will NEVER get connected so my advice is to just forget making a decent living.

I would say that a young ambitious man could do very well with a sugar factory. Unfortunately that investment is well beyond anyone I know.

[SGD]

Isaan Aussi,

Thanks for that. I remember reading through your posts with awe and admiration but I am not coming at this from the same perspective as you. If I have understood correctly, you work very hard and all hours to maximise the yield from your land space, generating way more than a Thai would from the same plot. However, I'm not sure I'm into vertical integration and I know I'm not into animals. At a push, growing something under the shade of something else is where I stand or more likely, using technology or another input to produce more or of a better quality. My hands remaining dirt free for the main as well.

The idea of having to develop a market is also not really on my agenda. If you already have your lot so to speak then I fully understand that you need to develop more markets. Going into it and having to develop a market is too risky. That said, your idea of a move to a more sustainable future is obvious but whether it can be achieved and sustainable at a micro / semi micro level remains to be seen. Something to think about though.

Gary A

I don't buy into your " if you have the investment money available to make 3 million baht per year, you already have enough to retire on" argument nor the pessimism that anything to do with farming needs to be subsistence only. In fact, your argument would seem to disprove itself in that once you move past the volumes required to subsist, then you have all the remainder available to sell.

I am under no illusion that a land based business needs a lot more thought and a very well developed business plan to generate the required income, which may well prove impossible, but that does not mean chucking in the towel before starting the thought process. Careful I am, defeatist I am not.

One thing I see is the huge problem of getting your product to market and the fact that so many farmers get shafted by the middle men. I would need variations on the standard route to market as I would never be beholding to someone having so much power over me. Then again, for some crops, there may be a derivatives market for hedging ?

My gut feeling is to devote the majority of the land to something stable and then be more esoteric with the rest. What, I do not yet know !

[Foreverford]

Isaan Aussi,

Thanks for that. I remember reading through your posts with awe and admiration but I am not coming at this from the same perspective as you. If I have understood correctly, you work very hard and all hours to maximise the yield from your land space, generating way more than a Thai would from the same plot. However, I'm not sure I'm into vertical integration and I know I'm not into animals. At a push, growing something under the shade of something else is where I stand or more likely, using technology or another input to produce more or of a better quality. My hands remaining dirt free for the main as well.

The idea of having to develop a market is also not really on my agenda. If you already have your lot so to speak then I fully understand that you need to develop more markets. Going into it and having to develop a market is too risky. That said, your idea of a move to a more sustainable future is obvious but whether it can be achieved and sustainable at a micro / semi micro level remains to be seen. Something to think about though.

Gary A

I don't buy into your " if you have the investment money available to make 3 million baht per year, you already have enough to retire on" argument nor the pessimism that anything to do with farming needs to be subsistence only. In fact, your argument would seem to disprove itself in that once you move past the volumes required to subsist, then you have all the remainder available to sell.

I am under no illusion that a land based business needs a lot more thought and a very well developed business plan to generate the required income, which may well prove impossible, but that does not mean chucking in the towel before starting the thought process. Careful I am, defeatist I am not.

One thing I see is the huge problem of getting your product to market and the fact that so many farmers get shafted by the middle men. I would need variations on the standard route to market as I would never be beholding to someone having so much power over me. Then again, for some crops, there may be a derivatives market for hedging ?

My gut feeling is to devote the majority of the land to something stable and then be more esoteric with the rest. What, I do not yet know !

Well done G of DS or variations thereof. Nice response as I said before I think folks needed to see where you are coming from and you have made it very clear in your post now. It appears you are trying to get something and are realistic in assessing what you want and will do to be able to try to reach your goal. Is there something out there that you can do, who knows? It is a bit like the Thai pharmacy though I think, you have a guy put up a pharmacy and it thrives at its location after a year someone notices it is successful and he puts up another across the street. they are both able to survive somewhat and then the next year two more go up a half a block away and nobody is doing well anymore. the best may be able to make a decent living, maybe. I've never seen a nation with so many abandoned businesses (kanom shops on the highway in Petchburi) wall to wall. So we await your views and decisions and wish you success in whatever you decide and of course the biggest compliment that we could give you, as always, would be imitation so please make us all rich and sooner than later. for me I wil follow the I/A example because in my short and delusional life it is the only way I have ever been able to figure out how to be successful and create some good income. If you are not willing to put in some 20 and 32 hour days then i don't think you will ever be able to feel assured that you will have some form of success. sort of like when you don't have your own business the only way I could figure how to get ahead in the race of rats was to work two jobs a day, that is when you can start banking some cash to try to getit together to buy yur own farm or make a business. A good plan, hard work, harder studying, constantly questioning and assessing and, as I/A puts it, finding a "niche" (or, if not, just plain being the best at what you do ) is really what it is all about, the situation with farming is that it is so complex that it seems to magnify all these to just another level. a Ford For a Ford Forever

[glomp]

Even if the elusive "western magic management" farms got setup and you got on with starting to regain your investment in a few years the mechanised agriculture corps will get in to thailand hardcore. if they arent't already.

that 200 rai economy of scale head start will be turned in to nothing.

[IsaanAussie]

Even if the elusive "western magic management" farms got setup and you got on with starting to regain your investment in a few years the mechanised agriculture corps will get in to thailand hardcore. if they arent't already.

that 200 rai economy of scale head start will be turned in to nothing.

Well Glomp,

I am definitely no magician and all my years of management dont amount to much more than the ability to plan things out as best I can. I often wonder what the hell I was thinking when I started all this, why get involved at all? One thing I do know, and agree with FEF completely on, if you are prepared to put in the hard yards day after day, you have an advantage over the normal easy going Thai subsistence farmer. Those helping will work at your pace and things get done not just talked about.

The mechanisation issue is a no brainer, it's simple progress from draught animals to rice tractors to GPS guided John Deeres. No different here or anywhere else and in the context of this thread scale is a must if you want to compete and produce incomes in the millions.

But IMHO that isnt what most of us are involved in. I personally am at a very small scale and have no ambitions towards getting much bigger, just better. The "full rice bowl is enough" attitude of rural Thais satisfies me these days, a pair of shorts and a tee-shirt from Big C to work in and a few beers at the end of the day are my needs. I find plenty of challenges in daily life to give me the mental stimulation to keep going.

Am I dreaming? Am I kidding myself? Can I make it work or will it all end up being yet another well intentioned folly for the locals to scoff at? Perhaps, but it will not be for the lack of trying. Like many others I spent a long time planning and started this knowing that it was a race to get things done before that corner was reached when the money runs out. That corner is approaching, fast. I freely admit the thought scares me but it wont stop me. For me, its about living where and how I choose, doing what I want and not just what I need to do.

So I suppose its a matter of knowing what you want and making it happen. Not just sitting around then asking, "What Happened?" For those with sufficient resources to absorb all the pitfalls Thailand poses all I can say is lucky you. For the battlers like me, good luck to you. To everyone, as we say in Australia, "Have a go you mug!"

Isaan Aussie